Prestige classes or other options for the good-guy wizards

[Surgo]

Something that I always wondered about is what sort of interesting class options exist for good-aligned characters. The guys who seem to, as far as class options go, not get much are good-aligned wizards.

Their evil-aligned brethren don't really have this problem. There's tons and tons of interesting options for them across the board. Tome of Necromancy and Tome of Fiends had a lot of great examples. And honestly, this makes a lot of sense: there's a lot of really obvious and not-so-obvious fun stuff you can do with the "evil wizard" idea.

But what about the good guys? I can think of some good ideas for a lot of martial characters, for instance, but I've just hit a mental block coming up with anything for the wizards. Any ideas as to what could make some interesting class material for these?

[Maxus]

That is a good question. I suppose could go Magic Humanitarian who creates food, shelter, zones of healing, and the like.

...Huh. Could do worse than Erana from Quest for Glory games.

-She travelled the world, doing good where she could, and had a personal capacity with Calm spells (which prevent violence by making things just not want to fight) such that an area would remain supernaturally peaceful for a long long time.

-She also made several safe zones in the wilderness, usually with some magical feature (a tree and a spring, so far) that folks could eat/drink and be restored.

Magic has a great capacity to change the world, so you could argue that the Good Wizards try to change the world for the better by making safer, or a little less miserable where they can.

[Username17]

The big problem is that we as a people are spoiled. To the point where we regard the "good" outcome (where people aren't killed by smallpox or raiders and the economy grows faster than population) as normal. But in the majority of human history, that was so strange of a case that it was the stuff of legends. Indeed, as late as the 19 th century Malthus (a very smart man for his day) was envisioning the future as looking kind of like this:



In stories, the good wizard acts as a protector, a provider, or a healer. Because the idea that you could have enough of those things seemed like a fucking fairy story. The Good Fairy hooks Cinderella up with some clothes (because the idea that party clothes would ever be in sufficient supply for a demoestic worker to own them was the stuff of fantasy), she hooks Briar Rose up with a magic cure for Tetanus (because you sure as fuck weren't getting a toxoid booster shot in the mundane world those people lived in), and Snow White a magic cure for Botulism (because botulism antitoxin was something that only existed in stories).

The great feats of fairy tale magicians of light are the simplest of miracles of modern industrialization and medicine. Thomas Edison, Henry Ford, Samuel Courtald, Joseph Lister, and Alexander Fleming are greater "good wizards" than the medieval serfs dared to imagine.

Good wizards are basically stuck with one of three roles: Healer, Protector, or Provider. In D&D specifically, Clerics are the undisputed kings of Healing and putting up glowing force fields, which leaves Wizards to solve crimes and industrialize things. Fabricate is the most good wizardly spell in the good wizard arsenal.

-Username17

[Ancient History]

Well, they can also try to magically crossbreed animals until they invent the Shmoo. Or golden chocobos.

[Maxus]

You also have the Advisors.

Gandalf, Merlin, or Belgarath's (or fill-in-whoever) displayed powers aren't inherently good or evil, they just aim them the right direction Likewise, much of their effectiveness lies in what they know rather than what they do.

...well, okay, I'll concede that on Merlin. Stuff varies.

But yeah.

[Koumei]

Thomas Edison, Henry Ford, Samuel Courtald, Joseph Lister, and Alexander Fleming are greater "good wizards" than the medieval serfs dared to imagine.

There's an angle to go with then, except in this day and age, the obvious choice is Tesla. Obviously more than just electrocuting people. But going for inventors that can make shit that's really useful for improving life but is also interesting for the players, with a side order of electrocuting the fuck out of bad dudes and creating earthquakes where needed.

[Avoraciopoctules]

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/prestig ... n-arcanist

There's a "Good Wizard" PrC from Pathfinder. More conceptually:
- Sun Mage, evokes light that weakens / drives away some kinds of monsters. On a strategic level, increase agricultural productivity and make lights in your city that double as protective wards.
- An order of mages opposed to Aboleth and Mind Flayers, specialized in freeing people from mind control and reversing forced mutations. Maybe rescue stolen memories and give them back to the original owners.
- Specialist in teleportation and protective wards. Benign Transposition with allies as an immediate action, taking hits in their place. Hope your mage armor and personal force bubble make you tough enough to be party tank.
- Transformative PrC where the mage becomes more like a good-aligned spellcasting monster. Maybe you learn the secrets of the guardian naga or something.
- Genie pact with the Djinn that culminates in you gaining the power to grant them wishes. Conjure food and wine for your friends, probably get some wind powers too if you want to stretch the class to 10 levels.

[fectin]

Thomas Edison, Henry Ford, Samuel Courtald, Joseph Lister, and Alexander Fleming are greater "good wizards" than the medieval serfs dared to imagine.

There's an angle to go with then, except in this day and age, the obvious choice is Tesla. Obviously more than just electrocuting people. But going for inventors that can make shit that's really useful for improving life but is also interesting for the players, with a side order of electrocuting the fuck out of bad dudes and creating earthquakes where needed.

Eh. Tesla gets all the hipster loving, but Edison really transformed the world.

[schpeelah]

Didn't Edison steal a lot of patents and cockblock Tesla's AC power grid for as long as he could, setting the industry back a bunch of years? What achievements are really Edisons?

[Kaelik]

Thomas Edison, Henry Ford, Samuel Courtald, Joseph Lister, and Alexander Fleming are greater "good wizards" than the medieval serfs dared to imagine.

There's an angle to go with then, except in this day and age, the obvious choice is Tesla. Obviously more than just electrocuting people. But going for inventors that can make shit that's really useful for improving life but is also interesting for the players, with a side order of electrocuting the fuck out of bad dudes and creating earthquakes where needed.

Eh. Tesla gets all the hipster loving, but Edison really transformed the world.

Tesla wasn't as revolutionary an inventor as people now like to make him out to be, but really, you are going to fall back on a guy who invented jack and shit?

Edison didn't transform the world, he exclusively sold things other people were already selling. Also worse versions. Edison did literally nothing to transform the world. Not even in a pun sense, since AC current is the one that uses transformers.

EDIT: No schnee, he blocked Westinghouse's AC grids by bribing government officials and running a smear campaign. For fuck's sake. Please. Can people stop just attributing other people's shit to Tesla. It's like from the grave Edisoning all the people who did actually do that shit.

[ACOS]

What Edison couldn't steal or buy-before-patented, he sent people in the dark of night to sabotage. He really was a douche.



EDIT:

EDIT: No schnee, he blocked Westinghouse's AC grids by bribing government officials and running a smear campaign.

Doesn't the fact that Westinghouse was trying to run with Tesla's tech mean anything?
Just sayin'.

[Kaelik]

EDIT: No schnee, he blocked Westinghouse's AC grids by bribing government officials and running a smear campaign.

Doesn't the fact that Westinghouse was trying to run with Tesla's tech mean anything?
Just sayin'.

It means something in the right context. It means literally nothing and is actually misleading when you call it "Tesla's AC grid" a term that explicitly and exclusively refers to the network of power generation and provision sites, and not at all to the patents.

[Prak]

Yeah, Edison wasn't an inventor, or in anyway deserving of the epithet The Wizard of Menlo Park. He was a businessman, and kind of his era's version of a corrupt businessman, stealing credit, stealing tech, and fomenting public distrust of rival tech.

In a fantasy world where good wizards are making Decanters of Water that supply entire cities with pure drinking water and magic circles that keep the area a pleasant 75 degrees Fahrenheit, Edison is the dickish wizard who is strong arming them into working for him claiming he did those things, and casting Disjunction on the creations of wizards who resist his offers.

And then creating rigged demonstrations with stolen pets to show that the Comfort Ward is wildly dangerous and can burn you alive.

edit: which would actually be a great story, but my point is that Edison was a douchebag and not someone to base a good wizard on. He's more of the "fuck you, I'm gonna go back to my tower full of cocaine and succubi" type of wizard.

[Lago PARANOIA]

No one ever seems to suggest wizards as bureaucrats, business leaders (inventors or providers, yes, business leaders no), diplomats, or military leaders. Even though the last one is one of the most strongly supported archetypes for bad guy wizards wizards in fiction.

[Koumei]

An order of mages opposed to Aboleth and Mind Flayers, specialized in freeing people from mind control and reversing forced mutations. Maybe rescue stolen memories and give them back to the original owners.

Wizards that specialise in breaking enchantments and ensuring everyone has control of their own mind and soul could be interesting. Obviously as an atheist I like the implications there, but a lot of the dangerous and iconic monsters actually do start combat by Dominating the party fighter.

-Transformative PrC where the mage becomes more like a good-aligned spellcasting monster. Maybe you learn the secrets of the guardian naga or something.
- Genie pact with the Djinn that culminates in you gaining the power to grant them wishes. Conjure food and wine for your friends, probably get some wind powers too if you want to stretch the class to 10 levels.

Is there anything preventing people from selling their souls to forces of good? I mean, if it binds you to be required to do good deeds, then that's the kind of thing that sounds like a price to pay (and for an actual person would be, forcing them to go around being a hero), but for a PC sounds like "what I was going to do anyway". No need for wild power gains, but full casting and "a bunch of little abilities you break out every now and then", sure.

[Prak]

I would actually kind of love to play a NE warlock who was "The Guy Who Sold His Soul to a Celestial." Like, he'll save your village, but he doesn't have to like it.

I'm also now imagining something like this

[Koumei]

That's kind of funny as an idea. An Evil dude who is doing good deeds against his betterworse judgement. That said, I once played a character who had "celestial magic power" as a result of her great grandfather selling his soul to a celestial, and the "gain magic, have to do good" passed down seven generations. To all fucking descendants along the chain. Some were so good they refused to have children, as doing so would force someone into a form of servitude without their choice. Her father was a mayor who did everything for the good of the people, and refused to let her inherit any power because that wouldn't be right, so she decided to wander around fireballing evil in the face.

I think it was a D&D game with a very anime-watching group. It might have actually been "a high fantasy game using BESM" or something. Or, given my memory, GURPS: Tetris.

[fectin]

A lot of people have neat ideas, and a lot of people get patents. Very few manage to roll them out to the public at large, much less get widespread adoption.

Would you similarly downplay the Model T's impact? Ford didn't invent autos, and the ones before his were nicer.

[Chamomile]

I'm also now imagining something like this

This is the best video

[Username17]

As it happens, we use neither Tesla's AC power projection system, nor Edison's DC power lines. We use a hybrid of AC power lines. But that's actually neither here nor there.

The point is that improving peoples' lives isn't about inventing things, it's about providing things. Humphrey Davy's electric light was a marvel, but it was Thomas Edison who made "electric light so cheap that only the rich would use candles." And that is what actually improves peoples' lives. Not inventors, but industrialists.

As a good wizard, you don't have to invent a thing, you have to produce enough of a thing that people who couldn't have one before now can.

Medicine is a little different, because it functions academically. So being an inventor actually does get you the credit, provided that you get your ideas out - because doctors around the world are supposed to adopt good ideas.

As a good wizard, it's fine to heal someone; but to really earn your chops you have to publicize a method for treating a condition so that people can treat their own damn plagues without having to send every sick person to your lab.

-Username17

[codeGlaze]

I actually really like that calm-inducing caster's premise. Very cool.

[Kaelik]

The point is that improving peoples' lives isn't about inventing things, it's about providing things. Humphrey Davy's electric light was a marvel, but it was Thomas Edison who made "electric light so cheap that only the rich would use candles." And that is what actually improves peoples' lives. Not inventors, but industrialists.

Except for the part where Edison also spent all his time making electric light more expensive and available to fewer people because... profit. But yeah, other than Edison not being that, that is a great example of someone doing something useful.

[Maxus]

I actually really like that calm-inducing caster's premise. Very cool.

And had nice BGM