Yogi Hats be damned, let's break the game at level 21.

Frantic · Post by **Frantic** » Thu Jun 25, 2009 1:17 am

Three Artificers or MC Artificers (one of whom has to be an Eladrin Wizard multiclassed into Artificer), who take the Battle Engineer Paragon Path join as a group with an Avenger. No one else is needed, but a Tactical Presence Warlord will help. The crafting Wizard Multiclass Artificer Eladrin Artificer uses Master Crafter (craft items of his level + int mod), Mark of Making (+2 level for the purpose of crafting), and a Ritualist's Ring to reduce the price of rituals, and takes the Elf High Mage epic destiny to further reduce it.

That artificer makes a +6 Vorpal Falchion for 781,250 gold pieces.

And then the three of you use this and hand the Falchion to the Avenger:

Brutal Enchantment (11th level): Whenever one of your artificer or battle engineer powers grants an ally a bonus to weapon damage rolls, that ally's weapon also becomes brutal 1 until the bonus ends. If the weapon is already brutal, its brutal value increases by 1.

Combine with Fleeting Dwoemer from all three of you, which gives untyped damage and is an Encounter power, minor action close burst 5.

Brutal 3 Vorpal Falchion means infinite damage if you hit an enemy. Enjoy!

EDIT: May be possible at level 20, but you'll need 2,343,750 gold pieces and I really doubt you'll have that much.

Leress · Post by **Leress** » Thu Jun 25, 2009 1:57 am

Looks like someone doesn't know about Rust Monster Milking?

Frantic · Post by **Frantic** » Thu Jun 25, 2009 2:07 am

Leress wrote:Looks like someone doesn't know about Rust Monster Milking?

Always fun, but that requires there be a Rust Monster in the world to begin with. This just does the trick without any DM-intervention needed aside from him hurting you severely ooc for doing it.

Koumei · Post by **Koumei** » Thu Jun 25, 2009 7:59 am

Can you spell it out for me? I get that Brutal 3 means rolling 3 or less is re-rolled, or counts as 4 or whatever, is that per die (I'm guessing a Falchion is 2d4?) or total?

But how does that become infinite as opposed to "maximum"? Does Vorpal make maximum damage dice explode?

Lago PARANOIA · Post by **Lago PARANOIA** » Thu Jun 25, 2009 8:04 am

Vorpal Weapons make the damage dice explode. If you have Brutal 3 you will do infinite damage.

However, Vorpal Weapons are level 30, so, big deal. That's also the level people have Divine Miracle which has so many infinite loops that it's not funny.

Username17 · Post by **Username17** » Thu Jun 25, 2009 8:10 am

Yes. Every time the die comes up its maximum value, you get an extra die. Brutal is technically that you reroll each die that comes up the Brutal value or less. So each die is rerolled until it gets a 4, and every time a die comes up a 4 you get a bonus die. Infinite damage.

Although frankly, a 21st level Gnome Wizard Demigod with Orb of Imposition and a Cunning Spiral Sword casts Sleep and chooses one enemy to be -11 on Saving Throws. So um... they don't get any actions. Ever again. Infinite turns sounds a lot like infinite damage. I mean, at least as far as it makes any difference to whether the game is broken. And at 30th level you get to remind the DM that Orb of Imposition is an Encounter Power and technically works as a free action on an enemy who is already being hampered by a spell - so you seriously get to extend stunlocks indefinitely without rolling any more dice.

-Username17

Judging__Eagle · Post by **Judging__Eagle** » Thu Jun 25, 2009 12:59 pm

Honestly.... that's kind of boring. Why the fuck are the most "broken" things in 4e so fucking boring?

Is there anything remotely interesting about it? I just seems like WoW without weekly updates to remove bugs.

Roy · Post by **Roy** » Thu Jun 25, 2009 3:32 pm

Judging__Eagle wrote:Honestly.... that's kind of boring. Why the fuck are the most "broken" things in 4e so fucking boring?

Is there anything remotely interesting about it? I just seems like WoW without weekly updates to remove bugs.

The entire thing has been successfully subjected to Blandification, thereby rendering it boring. All of it includes the broken parts.

The only good thing about it is they at least tried to do something different, which makes them a notch above Pathfinder and their ilk.

mean_liar · Post by **mean_liar** » Thu Jun 25, 2009 4:05 pm

I still can't wait to play at least one 4e game with a Tempest or Wizard. Or Warpriest Polearm fighter.

I honestly don't give a fuck about the rest of the party or the game and will happily enjoy myself until the game implodes because I'm having way the fuck more fun than everyone else.

This, RPOL has taught me, and it is the reason why I GM more than play.

Hotpants Joe · Post by **Hotpants Joe** » Thu Jun 25, 2009 4:50 pm

FrankTrollman wrote:Yes. Every time the die comes up its maximum value, you get an extra die. Brutal is technically that you reroll each die that comes up the Brutal value or less. So each die is rerolled until it gets a 4, and every time a die comes up a 4 you get a bonus die. Infinite damage.

So the extra dice are automatically brutal 3 as well? Or wouldn't that just apply to the original attack dice? It sounds like that would need to be specified in order for this not to be broken. That way it'd just be guaranteed extra dice.

violence in the media · Thu Jun 25, 2009 4:58 pm

Hotpants Joe wrote:
FrankTrollman wrote:Yes. Every time the die comes up its maximum value, you get an extra die. Brutal is technically that you reroll each die that comes up the Brutal value or less. So each die is rerolled until it gets a 4, and every time a die comes up a 4 you get a bonus die. Infinite damage.
So the extra dice are automatically brutal 3 as well? Or wouldn't that just apply to the original attack dice? It sounds like that would need to be specified in order for this not to be broken. That way it'd just be guaranteed extra dice.

Are extra dice no longer fire or magic in other circumstances?

Username17 · Post by **Username17** » Thu Jun 25, 2009 5:00 pm

It's every time you roll a damage die and get a three or less it is rerolled until it is not a three or less. Every time you get a 4 you get an extra damage die. It's broken, but as Lago points out - it's so expensive that it's basically reserved for a time when a Wizard Demigod could normally expect to infinitely recycle Orb of Imposition to add unlimited numbers of turns that their enemies do not get to act. So... meh. The game doesn't even pretend to hold together at high epic levels.

-Username17

CatharzGodfoot · Post by **CatharzGodfoot** » Thu Jun 25, 2009 5:21 pm

I just love abilities that reward you for using smaller dice.

zeruslord · Post by **zeruslord** » Thu Jun 25, 2009 5:28 pm

What happens if we pump it up to Brutal 4? Does the world explode or something?

Lago PARANOIA · Post by **Lago PARANOIA** » Thu Jun 25, 2009 6:15 pm

If you want level 21 break-the-gamedness and don't want to invest in wizard stunlocks, just be a tempest fighter/avenger.

The trick is to take the Punisher of the Gods ED. They have a level 21 ability that hands out an action point every time you deal a critical hit. The spending of which. doesn't count against your limit of one AP an encounter.

Your character will have Oath of Enmity from the avenger multiclass, they will have Rain of Blows because they are using a +4 Rending Urgosh (AV, which counts as an axe and a spear), and they will also have Weapon Mastery, You will also have the Reckless Attacker and Two-Weapon Opening feats; the first lets you take a melee basic attack with a -2 penalty to your AC if you score a critical hit and the second lets you make a melee basic attack with your off-hand weapon if you score a critical hit with your main weapon. You will also have the Martial Recovery feat, which lets you recover a Martial encounter attack power whenever you spend an AP.

You should be able to see where I'm going with this. Anyway, you open up with an Oath of Enmity'd Rain of Blows and then you burn an AP and recover your Rain of Blows. On the very likely chance that you scored a critical hit, you get an AP back and can take three more melee basic attacks, any of which can trigger critical hits. And Rending Weapon / Two-Weapon Ambush feed off of each other to boot. If you're fairly lucky you'll reach a death spiral of infinite damage when you start to accumulate action points--but it's very likely that your enemy will be dead before you can take them out.

The funny thing is that you want to target the biggest, baddest guy first with this so you can bank action points for the rest of the jokers in the fight.

Granted, it's not as good as orbizard stunlocking and it requires the use of an Epic Destiny from an obscure Dragon article that everyone knows is broken. But still.

In case you don't want to wear your animal companion as a hat or put on a pointy hat.

Roy · Post by **Roy** » Thu Jun 25, 2009 6:49 pm

So would you say headwear is the key to winning 4.Fail?

mean_liar · Post by **mean_liar** » Thu Jun 25, 2009 7:00 pm

I understand the Tempest crit-fishing thing and the stunlocking... I don't understand the Yogi hat/animal companion as a hat thing.

What's the fucked-up thing about that?

Lago PARANOIA · Post by **Lago PARANOIA** » Thu Jun 25, 2009 7:07 pm

http://www.tgdmb.com/viewtopic.php?t=49 ... competency

Check out that thread, mean_liar.

Grek · Post by **Grek** » Thu Jun 25, 2009 7:47 pm

Does anything like this exit for 4E? If so, I think I see a new take on Yogi-Hat Ranger.

mean_liar · Post by **mean_liar** » Thu Jun 25, 2009 7:54 pm

Lago PARANOIA wrote:http://www.tgdmb.com/viewtopic.php?t=49 ... competency

Check out that thread, mean_liar.

That's fucking stupid. Everything fucked up all in one place. No dumpster-diving for feats and combos or whatever. Just take that one ED and then... win DnD. At least its only at lvl 30.

zeruslord · Post by **zeruslord** » Thu Jun 25, 2009 7:57 pm

I doubt it. That would be overpowered! And nothing is overpowered in perfectly balanced Fourth Edition Dungeons And Dragons.

Roy · Post by **Roy** » Thu Jun 25, 2009 8:05 pm

zeruslord wrote:I doubt it. That would be overpowered! And nothing is overpowered in perfectly balanced Fourth Edition Dungeons And Dragons.

mean_liar · Post by **mean_liar** » Thu Jun 25, 2009 8:08 pm

Thinking about this further, I don't know if it matters that at lvl 30 the Ranger is immortal. 4e is screwball that way.

Lago PARANOIA · Post by **Lago PARANOIA** » Thu Jun 25, 2009 10:24 pm

The craziness actually starts at level 24--you can redirect all and every effect to your animal companion.

The only real problem is the companion's hit points. While you can just keep spending healing surges (or have someone else do it) and get huge bang for your buck, it is a little risky.

That's why you need the goddamn Vadalis Griffonmaster paragon path (Eberron Player's guide, page 79). Why? Well, a couple of reasons. One is because it flies and scales to your level, which should be good enough. But the big reason is so that the griffon has the mount keyword. Which means that you can back that ass up with some Impentrable Barding (Adventurer's Vault, page 123), which gives your mount resistance of your level, no greater than 10 per tier, which means that your mount has 24 resistance. And will have 256 hit points. And then you redirect every effect to your mount and dance around the battlefield.

Hell, if you're on a griffon don't even bother making a Yogi Hat. They have decent attacks for their level and since you are a motherfucking Beastlord you can have your companion literally dance circles around the battlefield since they'll be able to move 20 squares per round. Or you can just order them to charge as a minor action (two attacks), use another minor action to command them to make a melee basic attack (three), and use Twin Strike (five). Then next round you use a move action to move back, minor action to charge (two), then another one to use Twin Strike (four).

Now you're playing with power! SUPER POWER.

Frantic · Post by **Frantic** » Sat Jun 27, 2009 2:13 am

What happens if we pump it up to Brutal 4? Does the world explode or something?

You divide by 0. You can never do any damage, just reroll constantly.

I'm just guessing that this'll be fixed with errata, but since Orb still hasn't gotten smacked with common sense yet, who knows.

That's why you need the goddamn Vadalis Griffonmaster paragon path (Eberron Player's guide, page 79). Why? Well, a couple of reasons. One is because it flies and scales to your level, which should be good enough. But the big reason is so that the griffon has the mount keyword. Which means that you can back that ass up with some Impentrable Barding (Adventurer's Vault, page 123), which gives your mount resistance of your level, no greater than 10 per tier, which means that your mount has 24 resistance. And will have 256 hit points. And then you redirect every effect to your mount and dance around the battlefield.

I remember there being a similar option with one of the Draconomicon's mount dragons and some obscure Adventurer's Vault item.

The entire thing has been successfully subjected to Blandification, thereby rendering it boring. All of it includes the broken parts.

The only good thing about it is they at least tried to do something different, which makes them a notch above Pathfinder and their ilk.

I don't find it bland or boring, and many agree with me. 3.5 was something that quickly became boring for me, let alone 1e, 2e, and especially 3e. I haven't looked at Pathfinder so no comment, though it's based on 3.5 so it's bound to suck.

Fun is subjective, but having to dumpster dive through over 9000 books just to make a good non-caster is a real hassle. 4e is starting to take this route as well, of course, which just solidifies that dnd as a whole is fucking shit.