There should several stages of reanimation. For example, basic reanimation plus lictors, basic plus horses, basic plus tomb wyrms, and then maybe just basic. Adding in manikin, that makes five reanimation choices.
Other options could include:
-Cheaper labs.
-A multi-hero. This hero keeps appearing in Luck dominions.
-Aquatic PD, either of indie units or your available amphibians. Also, underwater fort building.
-Bigger production from castles.
-Faster/better castles.
-extra nation spells.
-capital site that increases scale to 1(higher would be crazy).
I'm also tempted by a choice to add a single trait to a single unit, but that seems like it could get crazy pretty fast. I imagine people would want Holy on awesome units or Lifeless on heavy encumbrance or Undead on some basic priest.
[Dom3] Draft: Etimhara Victorious
Moderator: Moderators
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Username17
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Nimtir Drafts:
Moose Riders 1085 (Jotunheim)
In my opinion, the only way to make drafting special abilities work is to give people points that they could pay blindly to bid for draft orders in different rounds. If "Pretenders" and "special abilities" were very desired, then they would be rationed by the free market - whoever managed to outbid everyone to get reanimating priests would have shitty draft order for their troops and shit.
-Username17
Moose Riders 1085 (Jotunheim)
In my opinion, the only way to make drafting special abilities work is to give people points that they could pay blindly to bid for draft orders in different rounds. If "Pretenders" and "special abilities" were very desired, then they would be rationed by the free market - whoever managed to outbid everyone to get reanimating priests would have shitty draft order for their troops and shit.
-Username17
I'm really surprised the following troops weren't selected, especially in the PD phase:
Triarius 666 (Ermor)
Triarius 688 (Pyth)
Machaka Hoplite 882 (Machaka)
Meteorite Guard 424 (Rlyeh)
These guys are a great deal, especially if you don't have to pay the resource cost for your initial army or PD. The Machaka hoplites are probably better than the Triari, just because they hit for 15 damage instead of 12 damage, even though their morale is worse. The Meteorite Guard lack shields, but are so heavily armored it may not matter, and they do get you into the water.
Crossbowman 417 (Ulm)
Imperial Crossbowman 802 (Tien Chi)
Likewise, I'm a bit surprised nobody took heavy xbowmen for their PD.
NOTICE THIS
I want:
Jotun Spearman 278 (Jotunheim)
(unless Zinegata takes that, in which case I'll take Jotun Axeman 279 (Jotunheim) )
NOTICE THIS
I should explain my picks:
Longbowmen - obvious.
Vaetti - Vaetti are size 1 units, and hit decently hard, which means they kill the hell out of things, when used properly. They're also very cheap+effective chaff and patrollers. My harpies can lead them on stealth missions, which may actually come up although I doubt it.
Iceclad - Not terribly synergistic with my Demon Bred (who prefer hot weather), but given that I wanted both a flying unit *and also* a good RP intensive unit for my PD, I took them. Storm Warriors (with SR), would probably have been better, but I was afraid that they didn't hit hard enough. Also, when Iceclad die in PD defenses, their HP are low so my other troop won't rout.
Giants - Well, I'm going Cold, so I want my troops to be cold resistant if I can manage it; also, it occurred to me (late in the process) that I need a giant as bodyguards for my Zammies, to prevent people from black-bowing them using the "fire large creatures" command. So that at least is prevented.
Other than that:
Tador: Eagle Warrior, Spire Horn Archer, Sacred Serpent, Flagellant
-- Okay, he's going mega-bless, so this all makes perfect sense.
angelfromanotherpin: Dai Bakemono 1397, Blizzard Warrior, Elephant 1147, Caelian Infantry 420
-- I see where he's going with this one; you want flyers, you take them. You see the opportunity to start with Elephants, that tempted me as well. I'm not sure what the Caelian Infantry are meant to accomplish, as starting troops or as PD troops.
FrankTrollman: White One, Shambler Thrall, Archer 797, Moose Riders 1085
This all makes perfect sense (good sacred, cheap trampler, second-best archer, can't argue any of that) until Moose Riders. If you just want all-archer PD, why not take the tien ch'i superheavy xbowmen?
Zinegata: Skinshifter, Bakemono Archer, Principe, ???
Skinshifter rush is nasty, looking forward to that. Bakemono Archers are cheap and they can see in the dark, I can see the merit there.
Principe are over-rated - you can have 5/4ths as many Hastati for the price, and be better off.
Winnah: Horseman 788, Ilithid Soldier, Bandit 1312, Black Knight
The Horseman is a great all-around unit and covers you in a lot of decisions you might make. Good call there.
The Ilithid Soldier I think is lame, actually. I've found they get their ass handed to them by UW independents, so what good are they? But the mind blast can be nice in a supporting role against Giants, for example, so if you get Giant rushed they'll be pretty sweet.
The Bandit is a cheap, stealthy archer - and has fairly good equipment, actually. Good PD choice.
The Black Knight will be inspiring if you build enough PD to get even 3 or 4 of them
, but I would've gone for Centaur Cataphracts instead.
K - Ilithid, Jotun Hirdman, Storm Guard, Kappa
Surprisingly good synergy. The Ilithid is only good if you have another unit to hold the line - Jotun on the surface do that pretty well (especially if many of their enemies are paralyzed), and Kappa will do in the water but I would've taken Meteorite Guard instead, I'm not sure what the plan is there.
Shiritai - Crossbowman 218, War Minotaur, Einhere, Atlantian Infantry 1621
Very clear thought process here. Good archer, trampler, then berserkers make pretty sweet PD units, and I suppose you just want to get into the water (?). I think the Glaive-wielding Coral Guard would actually better; they hit like hammers.
Korwin - Elephant 150, Mammoth 419, War Shambler, Light Bandar Archer
In spite of the lack of shield, I think two coral guard are better than 1 war shambler. YMMV, though - and of course that's a lot of resources.
You should've taken the full bandar archer instead of the light variant. You'll still start with 20 of them - how many are you going to recruit?
Triarius 666 (Ermor)
Triarius 688 (Pyth)
Machaka Hoplite 882 (Machaka)
Meteorite Guard 424 (Rlyeh)
These guys are a great deal, especially if you don't have to pay the resource cost for your initial army or PD. The Machaka hoplites are probably better than the Triari, just because they hit for 15 damage instead of 12 damage, even though their morale is worse. The Meteorite Guard lack shields, but are so heavily armored it may not matter, and they do get you into the water.
Crossbowman 417 (Ulm)
Imperial Crossbowman 802 (Tien Chi)
Likewise, I'm a bit surprised nobody took heavy xbowmen for their PD.
NOTICE THIS
I want:
Jotun Spearman 278 (Jotunheim)
(unless Zinegata takes that, in which case I'll take Jotun Axeman 279 (Jotunheim) )
NOTICE THIS
I should explain my picks:
Longbowmen - obvious.
Vaetti - Vaetti are size 1 units, and hit decently hard, which means they kill the hell out of things, when used properly. They're also very cheap+effective chaff and patrollers. My harpies can lead them on stealth missions, which may actually come up although I doubt it.
Iceclad - Not terribly synergistic with my Demon Bred (who prefer hot weather), but given that I wanted both a flying unit *and also* a good RP intensive unit for my PD, I took them. Storm Warriors (with SR), would probably have been better, but I was afraid that they didn't hit hard enough. Also, when Iceclad die in PD defenses, their HP are low so my other troop won't rout.
Giants - Well, I'm going Cold, so I want my troops to be cold resistant if I can manage it; also, it occurred to me (late in the process) that I need a giant as bodyguards for my Zammies, to prevent people from black-bowing them using the "fire large creatures" command. So that at least is prevented.
Other than that:
Tador: Eagle Warrior, Spire Horn Archer, Sacred Serpent, Flagellant
-- Okay, he's going mega-bless, so this all makes perfect sense.
angelfromanotherpin: Dai Bakemono 1397, Blizzard Warrior, Elephant 1147, Caelian Infantry 420
-- I see where he's going with this one; you want flyers, you take them. You see the opportunity to start with Elephants, that tempted me as well. I'm not sure what the Caelian Infantry are meant to accomplish, as starting troops or as PD troops.
FrankTrollman: White One, Shambler Thrall, Archer 797, Moose Riders 1085
This all makes perfect sense (good sacred, cheap trampler, second-best archer, can't argue any of that) until Moose Riders. If you just want all-archer PD, why not take the tien ch'i superheavy xbowmen?
Zinegata: Skinshifter, Bakemono Archer, Principe, ???
Skinshifter rush is nasty, looking forward to that. Bakemono Archers are cheap and they can see in the dark, I can see the merit there.
Principe are over-rated - you can have 5/4ths as many Hastati for the price, and be better off.
Winnah: Horseman 788, Ilithid Soldier, Bandit 1312, Black Knight
The Horseman is a great all-around unit and covers you in a lot of decisions you might make. Good call there.
The Ilithid Soldier I think is lame, actually. I've found they get their ass handed to them by UW independents, so what good are they? But the mind blast can be nice in a supporting role against Giants, for example, so if you get Giant rushed they'll be pretty sweet.
The Bandit is a cheap, stealthy archer - and has fairly good equipment, actually. Good PD choice.
The Black Knight will be inspiring if you build enough PD to get even 3 or 4 of them
, but I would've gone for Centaur Cataphracts instead.K - Ilithid, Jotun Hirdman, Storm Guard, Kappa
Surprisingly good synergy. The Ilithid is only good if you have another unit to hold the line - Jotun on the surface do that pretty well (especially if many of their enemies are paralyzed), and Kappa will do in the water but I would've taken Meteorite Guard instead, I'm not sure what the plan is there.
Shiritai - Crossbowman 218, War Minotaur, Einhere, Atlantian Infantry 1621
Very clear thought process here. Good archer, trampler, then berserkers make pretty sweet PD units, and I suppose you just want to get into the water (?). I think the Glaive-wielding Coral Guard would actually better; they hit like hammers.
Korwin - Elephant 150, Mammoth 419, War Shambler, Light Bandar Archer
In spite of the lack of shield, I think two coral guard are better than 1 war shambler. YMMV, though - and of course that's a lot of resources.
You should've taken the full bandar archer instead of the light variant. You'll still start with 20 of them - how many are you going to recruit?
My two other melee units are very expensive in terms of resources, and that could get nasty if I need to do any defensive or offensive seiging or need a lot of warm bodies right now to hold the line so spellcasters can do their thing.K - Ilithid, Jotun Hirdman, Storm Guard, Kappa
Surprisingly good synergy. The Ilithid is only good if you have another unit to hold the line - Jotun on the surface do that pretty well (especially if many of their enemies are paralyzed), and Kappa will do in the water but I would've taken Meteorite Guard instead, I'm not sure what the plan is there.
Enter the Kappa. It's resource 1 so I can mass them super quickly, they are well-armored (15), have two attacks on a Size 2 unit, and have an AP attack that causes Limps.
It's Str -3, so only 10 AP, but it gets even nastier with Strength of Giants, Rush of Strength, or both.
They fatigue out pretty quickly on land, but for an armored shock trooper the high fatigue is pretty standard (but goes away underwater). As PD, they are going to ruin a lot of enemy units even when they get steamrolled.
My picks were not ideal. I'm glad I picked up the horseman and I'll probably be mass producing those units and bandits, while wishing I had Dai Bakemono.
Black Knights suck for many reasons, mainly the prohibitive cost. However, a handful can clear normal indies with minimal losses. Once MR negates spells and AP attacks become more prevelant, the cost/utlity becomes more of an issue. Don't get me wrong, benefiting from Ulmish armour while mounted is a good deal, I just think they have a limited shelf-life.
Illithid Soldiers are not that good. I would prefer life drain to armour and a stupid trident. They're mainly in my picks because I did not anyone else to take them. They might be useful against an elephant/mammoth rush early game, there is also a chance I can use them as an expensive underwater expansion force. Their main funtion will be backing my PD, most likely.
Black Knights suck for many reasons, mainly the prohibitive cost. However, a handful can clear normal indies with minimal losses. Once MR negates spells and AP attacks become more prevelant, the cost/utlity becomes more of an issue. Don't get me wrong, benefiting from Ulmish armour while mounted is a good deal, I just think they have a limited shelf-life.
Illithid Soldiers are not that good. I would prefer life drain to armour and a stupid trident. They're mainly in my picks because I did not anyone else to take them. They might be useful against an elephant/mammoth rush early game, there is also a chance I can use them as an expensive underwater expansion force. Their main funtion will be backing my PD, most likely.
I actually thought long and hard in choosing between Principes and Hastati, but overall I figured that having slightly better quality for slightly fewer troops was better given my planned build. In retrospect though the shieldy man should have been the last pick given few of them got taken.DrPraetor wrote:Zinegata: Skinshifter, Bakemono Archer, Principe, ???
Skinshifter rush is nasty, looking forward to that. Bakemono Archers are cheap and they can see in the dark, I can see the merit there.
Principe are over-rated - you can have 5/4ths as many Hastati for the price, and be better off.
Anyway, the Mercenary Company of Sachs picks:
Hastatus 686 (Pyth)
(Yeah, this is no diversification plan, but this is really pick for the PD and starting army. Plus, I kinda know how to actually use these guys as opposed to more exotic stuff)
Last edited by Zinegata on Mon Apr 30, 2012 1:05 am, edited 2 times in total.
I considered the Coral Guard, but I was off-put by the price and lack of shields. Since I've got plenty of heavy-hitters, I was just looking for a solid, somewhat versatile amphibious troop to go along with my amphibious general. Against indies, spears are plenty versus everything but amber clan.DrPraetor wrote:Shiritai - Crossbowman 218, War Minotaur, Einhere, Atlantian Infantry 1621
Very clear thought process here. Good archer, trampler, then berserkers make pretty sweet PD units, and I suppose you just want to get into the water (?). I think the Glaive-wielding Coral Guard would actually better; they hit like hammers.
Though honestly I was hoping for the Kappa. A low resource, high protection unit like that would let me chose sloth 2 quite comfortably.
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Username17
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- Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm
Since the Moose Riders seem to confuse people, I'll elaborate:
Moose Riders are a strength 16 stealth unit that gets two attacks in melee and two attacks at range. They are "size 4" but the correct way to look at them is that they are a normal size 2 archer that has an inaccurate short bow and a broadsword (hitting for 16 points) that costs 15 gold and only 2.5 resources. That's not a great value for the gold, but considering that my "normal" archer costs 12 resources a pop, it is sometimes necessary.
But the real advantage is that stealth leadership is actually in somewhat short supply: an Atevi Chief only leads 40 troops. And a Moose Rider counts as only 1 troop for leadership purposes for every 2 shots and 2 melee attacks. And they siege and defend sieges like 2.5 troops, so they aren't even particularly expensive for the amount of sieging that you get.
My troops have costs split between moderate and low resource costs.
-Username17
Moose Riders are a strength 16 stealth unit that gets two attacks in melee and two attacks at range. They are "size 4" but the correct way to look at them is that they are a normal size 2 archer that has an inaccurate short bow and a broadsword (hitting for 16 points) that costs 15 gold and only 2.5 resources. That's not a great value for the gold, but considering that my "normal" archer costs 12 resources a pop, it is sometimes necessary.
But the real advantage is that stealth leadership is actually in somewhat short supply: an Atevi Chief only leads 40 troops. And a Moose Rider counts as only 1 troop for leadership purposes for every 2 shots and 2 melee attacks. And they siege and defend sieges like 2.5 troops, so they aren't even particularly expensive for the amount of sieging that you get.
My troops have costs split between moderate and low resource costs.
-Username17
Don't really agree. He can only recruit at maximum 10 sacreds per fort.DrPraetor wrote: Other than that:
Tador: Eagle Warrior, Spire Horn Archer, Sacred Serpent, Flagellant
-- Okay, he's going mega-bless, so this all makes perfect sense.
And his PD is fragille, but it's going to dish out big damage.
Anyway, I would have taken an Tower-Shield unit.
Many? Archers really shine, when massed.DrPraetor wrote: You should've taken the full bandar archer instead of the light variant. You'll still start with 20 of them - how many are you going to recruit?
Picks alphabetical sorted:
angelfromanotherpin - Adon 2027 (Ashdod)
angelfromanotherpin - Blizzard Warrior 127 (Caelum)
angelfromanotherpin - Caelian Infantry 420 (Caelum)
angelfromanotherpin - Dai Bakemono 1397 (Shinuyama)
angelfromanotherpin - Elephant 1147 (Bandar Log)
angelfromanotherpin - Jotun Scout 786
angelfromanotherpin - Marshmaster 937 (Ctis)
angelfromanotherpin - Priestess 242 (Arco)
angelfromanotherpin - Rishi 1144 (Bandar Log)
angelfromanotherpin - Seraphine 204 (Caelum)
angelfromanotherpin - Storm General 418
DrPraetor - Arch Theurg 41 (Pyth)
DrPraetor - Black Harpy 430 (Pangaea)
DrPraetor - Demonbred 87 (Abysia)
DrPraetor - Iceclad 132 (Caelum)
DrPraetor - Jotun Spearman 278 (Jotunheim)
DrPraetor - Longbowman 59 (Man)
DrPraetor - Monk 60 (Man)
DrPraetor - Rephaite Commander 2009 (Ashdod)
DrPraetor - Uba 1429 (Shinuyama)
DrPraetor - Vaetti 541 (Jotunheim)[
DrPraetor - Zamzummite 2011 (Ashdod)
FrankTrollman - Alchemist of the Five Elements 1891 (Tien Chi)
FrankTrollman - Archer 797 (Tien Chi)
FrankTrollman - Atevi Chieftan 1127 (Bandar Log)
FrankTrollman - Black Sorcerer 894 (Machaka)
FrankTrollman - Coral Queen 112 (Atlantis)
FrankTrollman - Ilithid Lord 445 (Rlyeh)
FrankTrollman - Master Smith 325 (Ulm)
FrankTrollman - Moose Riders 1085 (Jotunheim)
FrankTrollman - Shambler Thrall 425 (Rlyeh)
FrankTrollman - Warlock 89 (Abysia)
FrankTrollman - White One 1142 (Bandar Log)
K - Edomite Scout 2010 (Ashdod)
K - Ilithid 331 (Rlyeh)
K - Jotun Gode 275 (Jotunheim)
K - Jotun Hirdman 842 (Jotunheim)
K - Kappa 1550 (Shinuyama)
K - King of the Deep 322 (Atlantis)
K - Priest King 1190 (Mictlan)
K - Starspawn 333 (Rlyeh)
K - Storm Guard 421 (Caelum)
K - Tribal King 730 (Mictlan)
K - Vanadrott 948 (Vanheim)
Korwin - Spider Lord 887 (Machaka)
Korwin - Astrologer 301 (Arco)
Korwin - Bakemono Sorcerer 1427 (Shinuyama)
Korwin - Bean Sidhe 1774 (Eriu)
Korwin - Caelian Scout 484 (Caelum)
Korwin - Ear of the Lord 895 (Machaka)
Korwin - Elephant 150 (Arco)
Korwin - Light Bandar Archer 1130 (Bandar Log)
Korwin - Mammoth 419 (Caelum)
Korwin - Mystic 311 (Arco)
Korwin - War Shambler 208 (Atlantis)
Shiritai - Atlantian Infantry 1621 (Atlantis)
Shiritai - Crossbowman 218 (Marignon)
Shiritai - Einhere 146 (Vanheim)
Shiritai - Gygja 785 (Jotunheim)
Shiritai - Imperial Consort 813 (Tien Chi)
Shiritai - Minister of Rituals 804 (Tien Chi)
Shiritai - Pan 238 (Pangaea)
Shiritai - Theurg 42 (Pyth)
Shiritai - Traitor Prince 444 (Rlyeh)
Shiritai - War Minotaur 235 (Pangaea)
Shiritai - Warlock Apprentice 923 (Abysia)
Tador - Couatl 1194 (Mictlan)
Tador - Eagle Warrior 726 (Mictlan)
Tador - Flagellant 217 (Marignon)
Tador - High Seraph 203 (Caelum)
Tador - Imperial Alchemist 1892 (Tien Chi)
Tador - Jotun Herse 437 (Jotunheim)
Tador - Lizard King 177 (Ctis)
Tador - Sacred Serpent 295 (Ctis)
Tador - Slayer 429 (Abysia)
Tador - Spire Horn Archer 128 (Caelum)
Tador - Starspawn 332 (Rlyeh)
Winnah - Bandit 1312 (Shinuyama)
Winnah - Black Knight 69 (Ulm)
Winnah - Friar 148 (Marignon)
Winnah - Horseman 788 (Tien Chi)
Winnah - Ilithid Soldier 407 (Rlyeh)
Winnah - Jotun Skratti 553 (Jotunheim)
Winnah - Priest Smith 1982 (Ulm)
Winnah - Sorcerer 893 (Machaka)
Winnah - Spy 427
Winnah - Strategos 746 (Arco)
Winnah - Tuatha 856 (Eriu)
Zinegata - Bakemono Archer 1395 (Shinuyama)
Zinegata - Bakemono Scout 1963 (Shinamuya)
Zinegata - Celestial Master 803 (Tien Chi)
Zinegata - Eye of the Lord 896 (Machaka)
Zinegata - Hastatus 686 (Pyth)
Zinegata - Minotaur Lord 236 (Pangaea)
Zinegata - Principe 665 (Ermor)
Zinegata - Skinshifter 400 (Vanheim)
Zinegata - Talmai Elder 2028 (Ashdod)
Zinegata - Vaetti Hag 913 (Jotunheim)
Zinegata - Vanjarl 264 (Vanheim)
angelfromanotherpin - Blizzard Warrior 127 (Caelum)
angelfromanotherpin - Caelian Infantry 420 (Caelum)
angelfromanotherpin - Dai Bakemono 1397 (Shinuyama)
angelfromanotherpin - Elephant 1147 (Bandar Log)
angelfromanotherpin - Jotun Scout 786
angelfromanotherpin - Marshmaster 937 (Ctis)
angelfromanotherpin - Priestess 242 (Arco)
angelfromanotherpin - Rishi 1144 (Bandar Log)
angelfromanotherpin - Seraphine 204 (Caelum)
angelfromanotherpin - Storm General 418
DrPraetor - Arch Theurg 41 (Pyth)
DrPraetor - Black Harpy 430 (Pangaea)
DrPraetor - Demonbred 87 (Abysia)
DrPraetor - Iceclad 132 (Caelum)
DrPraetor - Jotun Spearman 278 (Jotunheim)
DrPraetor - Longbowman 59 (Man)
DrPraetor - Monk 60 (Man)
DrPraetor - Rephaite Commander 2009 (Ashdod)
DrPraetor - Uba 1429 (Shinuyama)
DrPraetor - Vaetti 541 (Jotunheim)[
DrPraetor - Zamzummite 2011 (Ashdod)
FrankTrollman - Alchemist of the Five Elements 1891 (Tien Chi)
FrankTrollman - Archer 797 (Tien Chi)
FrankTrollman - Atevi Chieftan 1127 (Bandar Log)
FrankTrollman - Black Sorcerer 894 (Machaka)
FrankTrollman - Coral Queen 112 (Atlantis)
FrankTrollman - Ilithid Lord 445 (Rlyeh)
FrankTrollman - Master Smith 325 (Ulm)
FrankTrollman - Moose Riders 1085 (Jotunheim)
FrankTrollman - Shambler Thrall 425 (Rlyeh)
FrankTrollman - Warlock 89 (Abysia)
FrankTrollman - White One 1142 (Bandar Log)
K - Edomite Scout 2010 (Ashdod)
K - Ilithid 331 (Rlyeh)
K - Jotun Gode 275 (Jotunheim)
K - Jotun Hirdman 842 (Jotunheim)
K - Kappa 1550 (Shinuyama)
K - King of the Deep 322 (Atlantis)
K - Priest King 1190 (Mictlan)
K - Starspawn 333 (Rlyeh)
K - Storm Guard 421 (Caelum)
K - Tribal King 730 (Mictlan)
K - Vanadrott 948 (Vanheim)
Korwin - Spider Lord 887 (Machaka)
Korwin - Astrologer 301 (Arco)
Korwin - Bakemono Sorcerer 1427 (Shinuyama)
Korwin - Bean Sidhe 1774 (Eriu)
Korwin - Caelian Scout 484 (Caelum)
Korwin - Ear of the Lord 895 (Machaka)
Korwin - Elephant 150 (Arco)
Korwin - Light Bandar Archer 1130 (Bandar Log)
Korwin - Mammoth 419 (Caelum)
Korwin - Mystic 311 (Arco)
Korwin - War Shambler 208 (Atlantis)
Shiritai - Atlantian Infantry 1621 (Atlantis)
Shiritai - Crossbowman 218 (Marignon)
Shiritai - Einhere 146 (Vanheim)
Shiritai - Gygja 785 (Jotunheim)
Shiritai - Imperial Consort 813 (Tien Chi)
Shiritai - Minister of Rituals 804 (Tien Chi)
Shiritai - Pan 238 (Pangaea)
Shiritai - Theurg 42 (Pyth)
Shiritai - Traitor Prince 444 (Rlyeh)
Shiritai - War Minotaur 235 (Pangaea)
Shiritai - Warlock Apprentice 923 (Abysia)
Tador - Couatl 1194 (Mictlan)
Tador - Eagle Warrior 726 (Mictlan)
Tador - Flagellant 217 (Marignon)
Tador - High Seraph 203 (Caelum)
Tador - Imperial Alchemist 1892 (Tien Chi)
Tador - Jotun Herse 437 (Jotunheim)
Tador - Lizard King 177 (Ctis)
Tador - Sacred Serpent 295 (Ctis)
Tador - Slayer 429 (Abysia)
Tador - Spire Horn Archer 128 (Caelum)
Tador - Starspawn 332 (Rlyeh)
Winnah - Bandit 1312 (Shinuyama)
Winnah - Black Knight 69 (Ulm)
Winnah - Friar 148 (Marignon)
Winnah - Horseman 788 (Tien Chi)
Winnah - Ilithid Soldier 407 (Rlyeh)
Winnah - Jotun Skratti 553 (Jotunheim)
Winnah - Priest Smith 1982 (Ulm)
Winnah - Sorcerer 893 (Machaka)
Winnah - Spy 427
Winnah - Strategos 746 (Arco)
Winnah - Tuatha 856 (Eriu)
Zinegata - Bakemono Archer 1395 (Shinuyama)
Zinegata - Bakemono Scout 1963 (Shinamuya)
Zinegata - Celestial Master 803 (Tien Chi)
Zinegata - Eye of the Lord 896 (Machaka)
Zinegata - Hastatus 686 (Pyth)
Zinegata - Minotaur Lord 236 (Pangaea)
Zinegata - Principe 665 (Ermor)
Zinegata - Skinshifter 400 (Vanheim)
Zinegata - Talmai Elder 2028 (Ashdod)
Zinegata - Vaetti Hag 913 (Jotunheim)
Zinegata - Vanjarl 264 (Vanheim)
Last edited by Korwin on Mon Apr 30, 2012 5:57 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Username17
- Serious Badass
- Posts: 29894
- Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm
I also think that getting three flavors of sacred build-anywhere troops is silly. The sacred recruit-limit applies everywhere equally. Once you have Eagle Warriors, what is the point of also-having Flagellants? You already have a blessable unit that costs few resources and has two attacks. Presumably you're already going to take a F9 or D9 bless (or both with like the Lord of the Desert Sun or something), but you're never going to build a flagellant. The Sacred Serpent makes more sense, since it's a standard and not much more expensive than any other standard bearer. But the Flagellant should have been almost anything else. A jotun javelinist, or an alae legionaire, or a black plate battle axer or a spire horn warrior or something, really anything that covers ground that the Eagle Warriors don't already cover.
Remember: while Amblis has Couatls in their 20+ PD, their 1-19 PD is led by a Jotun Herse, meaning that at PD 10 they have 6 unblessed Sacred Serpents and 20 unblessed Flagellants. Their PD can be sent off the field by a pile of short bowmen, a stiff breeze, and a stern warning.
Also: you start with ten Light Bandar Archers. It's 400 gold worth of troops, not 400 gold worth of each troop. It's supposed to be split between your troops, but you can start with either troop (rounding up or down) and spend the leftovers on the other troop. So Amblis could start with 6 Sacred Serpents and 22 Flagellants or 7 Sacred Serpents and 19 Flagellents. Sachs could start with 13 Principe and 17 Hastatus, or 14 Principe and 15 Hastati. Manditou could start with 6 War Shamblers and 11 Light Bandar Archers, or 7 War Shamblers and 9 Light Bandar Archers. And so on.
Nimtir is going to start with 6 Moose Riders and 22 Tien Chi Archers.
-Username17
Remember: while Amblis has Couatls in their 20+ PD, their 1-19 PD is led by a Jotun Herse, meaning that at PD 10 they have 6 unblessed Sacred Serpents and 20 unblessed Flagellants. Their PD can be sent off the field by a pile of short bowmen, a stiff breeze, and a stern warning.
Also: you start with ten Light Bandar Archers. It's 400 gold worth of troops, not 400 gold worth of each troop. It's supposed to be split between your troops, but you can start with either troop (rounding up or down) and spend the leftovers on the other troop. So Amblis could start with 6 Sacred Serpents and 22 Flagellants or 7 Sacred Serpents and 19 Flagellents. Sachs could start with 13 Principe and 17 Hastatus, or 14 Principe and 15 Hastati. Manditou could start with 6 War Shamblers and 11 Light Bandar Archers, or 7 War Shamblers and 9 Light Bandar Archers. And so on.
Nimtir is going to start with 6 Moose Riders and 22 Tien Chi Archers.
-Username17
I kinda wanna make Reject Kingdoms: The Best of the Rest now. So many of my top troop picks didn't get taken. In fact, some of the best troops in the age didn't get taken.
Maybe they can work as raiders, but since PD will be pretty good in this game, I think they will mostly fall flat there as well.
While I won't disagree that a low resource archer is valuable, I think the salient point where Moose Riders are concerned is that their combat stats are very low. While they have high HP, the fact that they have precision 8 and attack at 9 and 8 skill respectively limits the amount of hurt they can actually put out. Also, size 4 ends up making them worse then normal size 2 archers if forced into melee.Moose Riders are a strength 16 stealth unit that gets two attacks in melee and two attacks at range. They are "size 4" but the correct way to look at them is that they are a normal size 2 archer that has an inaccurate short bow and a broadsword (hitting for 16 points) that costs 15 gold and only 2.5 resources. That's not a great value for the gold, but considering that my "normal" archer costs 12 resources a pop, it is sometimes necessary.
Maybe they can work as raiders, but since PD will be pretty good in this game, I think they will mostly fall flat there as well.
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Username17
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A lot of the best troops aren't on anyone's list. The problem is that a lot of the best troops are the best at what they do because they are very specialized. I mean, I was sorely tempted by the Marignon Swordsman, because he is awesome and cheaply and effectively handles anti-giant duty without being especially weak to archery or low morale. Truly a great unit. But he wasn't stealthy, he wasn't aquatic, and he wasn't move 2+. Quite simply, I couldn't afford to use one of my four troop slots on a unit that would be unable to keep up with my leaders on so many missions.
Real factions have a lot of units and so they can cover a lot of ground. Even a monochromatic faction like Vanheim actually has six build-anywhere units. A military machine like Tien Chi has fourteen and most of them are good. But the format doesn't justify taking the Ministry Guardsman, because you only have four units to work with and all of them have to do quadruple duty.
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Real factions have a lot of units and so they can cover a lot of ground. Even a monochromatic faction like Vanheim actually has six build-anywhere units. A military machine like Tien Chi has fourteen and most of them are good. But the format doesn't justify taking the Ministry Guardsman, because you only have four units to work with and all of them have to do quadruple duty.
-Username17
It goes beyond somewhat niche, but overall solid, troops some of the best general troops in the game are not on anyones list, literally two of the most unique and effective troops in the age are unpicked. I'll tell you what, I'll make an entire nation of stuff that no one picked, and if people want a rematch after this, I'll play it. Hell, I'll play it if this game takes another 2 weeks to get off the ground and people will let me, but I don't think they/it will.
i choose for amblis.
Jaguar Warrior 727 (Mictlan)
and yes i want many Sacred units so bless is more effective.
thats a the reason for my question for a bless pretender i would like to take an pretender with all path of magic 4 for bless but id dont know if it possible.
Jaguar Warrior 727 (Mictlan)
and yes i want many Sacred units so bless is more effective.
thats a the reason for my question for a bless pretender i would like to take an pretender with all path of magic 4 for bless but id dont know if it possible.
Last edited by Tador on Mon Apr 30, 2012 9:06 am, edited 2 times in total.
You can get 4 minor blesses, but not 4 major.Tador wrote: thats a the reason for my question for a bless pretender i would like to take an pretender with all path of magic 4 for bless but id dont know if it possible.
Even with 2 major blesses you have to tank your scales.
You would need to use Mods like AwesomeGods and even there I doubt 4 major blesses would be possible.
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Username17
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Awesome Gods is pretty fucking stupid. The Divine Emperor apparently starts with a minor in every bless. Buying that up to a major blessing in four picks is only 480 more points. So you can literally field a blessing of 15% Regen, Berserk, +4 Defense, Quickness, +4 Attack, Flaming Weapons, Reinvig 4, +4 Armor, +1 MR, +100% Affliction Chance, +2 Strength, Air Shield 20% with a dominion of 5 on -3 total scales. Like seriously, you can max cold and be otherwise neutral. And when your Divine Emperor actually shows up: he can transform himself into an animal and actually use all those bullshit levels of magic. It's insanity.
Anyway, the most I've ever seen is a Triple Bless. It's actually really expensive, because even if you start with something like the Lord of Rebirth, you're still paying 864 points to upgrade three magic paths to 9. And that means you need 389 points from scales. The max you can get out of scales is 720, which means you can still buy a dominion score and you won't bottom out every scale. But the fourth max bless is not even possible as it would cost 352 points plus whatever the god's newpath costs are.
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Anyway, the most I've ever seen is a Triple Bless. It's actually really expensive, because even if you start with something like the Lord of Rebirth, you're still paying 864 points to upgrade three magic paths to 9. And that means you need 389 points from scales. The max you can get out of scales is 720, which means you can still buy a dominion score and you won't bottom out every scale. But the fourth max bless is not even possible as it would cost 352 points plus whatever the god's newpath costs are.
-Username17
Either the Divine Emperor got nerfed or you are missing the point cost of the chassis (220 Points).
I think its the former, since he 'only' starts with an path bonus +3 for Bless Purposes.
So he would need 10 negative scales for the blesses you listed. Sooo not worth it...
Looked back a few version, in AwesomeGod 1.7 the Divine Emperor cost 300 points... same +3 for Bless purposes...
I think its the former, since he 'only' starts with an path bonus +3 for Bless Purposes.
So he would need 10 negative scales for the blesses you listed. Sooo not worth it...
Looked back a few version, in AwesomeGod 1.7 the Divine Emperor cost 300 points... same +3 for Bless purposes...
Korwin - before we get into this, your question was whether four major blesses is *possible*, not whether it's *advisable*. It is possible - an imprisoned Void Lurker, with all-bad-scales, domstr 5, could afford X9X9X9S9.
The point of Awesome Gods is, as I understand it, to *prevent* people from taking Gods with relatively little magic, rather than especially to reward people who take a lot of magic on their Gods. I understand the point of the Mod, but don't particularly sympathize.
The point of Awesome Gods is, as I understand it, to *prevent* people from taking Gods with relatively little magic, rather than especially to reward people who take a lot of magic on their Gods. I understand the point of the Mod, but don't particularly sympathize.
Chaosium rules are made of unicorn pubic hair and cancer. --AncientH
When you talk, all I can hear is "DunningKruger" over and over again like you were a god damn Pokemon. --Username17
Fuck off with the pony murder shit. --Grek
When you talk, all I can hear is "DunningKruger" over and over again like you were a god damn Pokemon. --Username17
Fuck off with the pony murder shit. --Grek
Oh... that makes sense. Can I take all one or the other?FrankTrollman wrote:Also: you start with ten Light Bandar Archers. It's 400 gold worth of troops, not 400 gold worth of each troop. It's supposed to be split between your troops, but you can start with either troop (rounding up or down) and spend the leftovers on the other troop. So Amblis could start with 6 Sacred Serpents and 22 Flagellants or 7 Sacred Serpents and 19 Flagellents. Sachs could start with 13 Principe and 17 Hastatus, or 14 Principe and 15 Hastati. Manditou could start with 6 War Shamblers and 11 Light Bandar Archers, or 7 War Shamblers and 9 Light Bandar Archers. And so on.
Nimtir is going to start with 6 Moose Riders and 22 Tien Chi Archers.
-Username17
So for example can I start with 26 Ice Clad (390 gp)? Although, I think 13 Jotun Spearmen is probably a better idea for early expansion.
Sorry, yes.DrPraetor wrote:Korwin - before we get into this, your question was whether four major blesses is *possible*, not whether it's *advisable*. It is possible - an imprisoned Void Lurker, with all-bad-scales, domstr 5, could afford X9X9X9S9.
Possible but not adviseable.
That's the point I wanted to make to Tador. NOT Adviseable.
Even with AwesomeGods and the Divine Emperor.
Last edited by Korwin on Mon Apr 30, 2012 1:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Username17
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You spend half, rounded up or down to the nearest unit, on one of the units, and then spend the rest of it on the other troop, buying as many as you can.DrPraetor wrote:Oh... that makes sense. Can I take all one or the other?FrankTrollman wrote:Also: you start with ten Light Bandar Archers. It's 400 gold worth of troops, not 400 gold worth of each troop. It's supposed to be split between your troops, but you can start with either troop (rounding up or down) and spend the leftovers on the other troop. So Amblis could start with 6 Sacred Serpents and 22 Flagellants or 7 Sacred Serpents and 19 Flagellents. Sachs could start with 13 Principe and 17 Hastatus, or 14 Principe and 15 Hastati. Manditou could start with 6 War Shamblers and 11 Light Bandar Archers, or 7 War Shamblers and 9 Light Bandar Archers. And so on.
Nimtir is going to start with 6 Moose Riders and 22 Tien Chi Archers.
-Username17
So for example can I start with 26 Ice Clad (390 gp)? Although, I think 13 Jotun Spearmen is probably a better idea for early expansion.
So your choices with Jotun Spearmen and Iceclad would be:
| First Choice | Jotun Spearmen | Ice Clad |
| Jotun Spearmen, Round Up | 7 | 12 |
| Jotun Spearmen, Round Down | 6 | 14 |
| Ice Clad, Round Up | 6 | 14 |
| Ice Clad, Round Down | 6 | 13 |
Obviously, buying your iceclad first and then rounding down is stupid, as it gives you 205 gold left to purchase Jotun Spearmen, which is still only 6 with 25 left over. Practically speaking, your choices are 6 Jotun Spearmen and 14 Iceclad or 7 Jotun Spearmen and 12 Ice Clad.
-Username17
Last edited by Username17 on Mon Apr 30, 2012 2:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.