[Dom3] Draft: Etimhara Victorious

Korwin · Post by **Korwin** » Fri Apr 20, 2012 10:43 am

Tador wrote:my choice is Mictlans Starspawn if possible.

Totally missed that mictlan there, the first Time....

Tador · Post by **Tador** » Fri Apr 20, 2012 10:49 am

i will chois starspaqwn the non priest also the normal mage. from Ryle

Username17 · Post by **Username17** » Fri Apr 20, 2012 11:03 am

Nimtir Drafts: Master Smith 325 (Ulm)

I know, haven't I said repeatedly that Ulm sucks and that the Master Smith is the most overrated unit in the game? Yes. But that is because the Master Smith is Ulm's biggest mage, which leaves them no one able to cast rituals or produce big items. In actual Ulm, the Master Smith is supposed to be their answer to the Grand Master of Marignon or the Crone of Avalon. And well, he's not. But as a build-anywhere battle mage who can defer to one of two different capital-only mages to get the big spells cast, he is very competitive.

-Username17

Zinegata · Post by **Zinegata** » Fri Apr 20, 2012 1:04 pm

Ok, let's go off beat too.

The Mercenary Company of Sachs picks:

Vaetti Hag 913 (Jotunheim)

Username17 · Post by **Username17** » Fri Apr 20, 2012 1:30 pm

Vaetti Hag 913 (Jotunheim)

Yeah, I was really hoping that one was going to still be there for my second pick. But I guess as how it's the cheapest blood hunter in the era, and the only one that can be built without a lab, that was too much to hope for.

-Username17

angelfromanotherpin · Post by **angelfromanotherpin** » Fri Apr 20, 2012 1:36 pm

Huh, I would have thought more people would follow Tador's lead and go for the big build-anywheres first and the utility guys second.

Username17 · Post by **Username17** » Fri Apr 20, 2012 2:10 pm

angelfromanotherpin wrote:Huh, I would have thought more people would follow Tador's lead and go for the big build-anywheres first and the utility guys second.

There are nine "full mages" that can be selected in this round (Starspawn, Pan, High Seraph, Bakemono Sorcerer, Skratti, King of the Deep, Zanzumite, Machaka Sorcerer, and Marshmaster). There are two level 3 priests (High Inquisitor and Anathemant Dragon). But the utility characters are generally unique. The Minister of Magic is the only commander with a research bonus who can be built without a lab. The Vaetti Hag is the only cheap blood hunter in the era. There's probably less urgency about healers, because they are available in Tien Chi and Arco - but again the Master Smith is the only battle mage with a forge bonus.

The biggest build-anywhere mage went first. The Starspawn sorcerer is an obscenity. But anyone who picks early in the second round will be able to grab some sort of high-end build-anywhere mage if they want one. Granted, it won't be their first choice (which obviously, would have been the Starspawn), but life with Pans instead of High Seraphs or vice versa is hardly the end of the world.

Of course, I personally pick last in the next round, so I'm damn sure that I won't have a build-anywhere high-end mage. But if I had waited on the utility casters, I probably wouldn't end up with one of those. It was a tough call. For Sachs it's an easier call though: they pick first in the next round, so no power on Earth can keep them from ending up with some sort of high-end caster if they want one.

-Username17

Zinegata · Post by **Zinegata** » Fri Apr 20, 2012 3:14 pm

FrankTrollman wrote:For Sachs it's an easier call though: they pick first in the next round, so no power on Earth can keep them from ending up with some sort of high-end caster if they want one.

-Username17

Exactly

Why is the Starspwan an obscenity though? Good fighting ability on top of potentially getting Astral 5? Or mainly the Astral 5?

angelfromanotherpin · Post by **angelfromanotherpin** » Fri Apr 20, 2012 3:43 pm

Zinegata wrote:Why is the Starspwan an obscenity though? Good fighting ability on top of potentially getting Astral 5? Or mainly the Astral 5?

Starspawn aren't really good fighters (if nothing else, morale 9 is hard to work with) but they are tough. So when they use their astral for absurd communion nonsense, the usual counters like Earthquake don't work. Shit like Seeking Arrow isn't going to kill them either. Also, they aren't Old like a lot of the other full mages - not even close.

Astral 5 is pretty nuts, it means they can forge your rings for you without needing boosters, and the number of Astral 4 they pop out is very high if you want to Mind Hunt. But they also have excellent paths in general. Water 3, Earth 2, Astral 5, Death 2 - that's 12 points of diversity that having them brings to the table - even the Bakemono Sorcerer or King of the Deep are only walking around with 11.

Just to ice the cake, they are also amphibious beings with huge magic leadership; so if you want to get into the water - well, that's not going to be very hard at all.

I don't know if it's possible to hate-draft easy Clammers away from Tador, but it's probably worth thinking about.

Username17 · Post by **Username17** » Fri Apr 20, 2012 3:57 pm

angelfromanotherpin wrote: I don't know if it's possible to hate-draft easy Clammers away from Tador, but it's probably worth thinking about.

It's not. There are some seriously obscure units that can clam if need be. Mermages, Slave Mages, Capricorns, and of course all the Five Elementalists of Tien Chi get the coveted Water/Nature mix. Not to mention that any unit that gets either a Kailasa random (like the Bandar Log Rishi) or a Tuatha random (like the Crone of Avalon) gets Water/Nature as well. And of course: no one is going to hate draft Contact Yakshini, a spell that allows anyone with even the most bullshit of Water/Nature access to ramp up to a full clamming economy. (EDIT: this was overly vague. My point here was that Tador gets first pick of the pretenders and national spells, so even if everyone magically cockblocked him on all Water/Nature casters, he could still just bootstrap himself in at Conjuration 4)

It's worth noting that more than one in eight Star Spawns get S4D1, which equates to a ridiculously devastating Nether Darts. It's not just that they are durable and formidable ritualists, they are also mighty evokers.

-Username17

DrPraetor · Post by **DrPraetor** » Sat Apr 21, 2012 1:29 am

Frank, thats true. Star Spawn are awesome.

But, MR aside, ZAMZUMMITES AM BETTER. Banefire for life, yo!

So, I'll take Zamzummite. This has been my first drunk draft.

angelfromanotherpin · Post by **angelfromanotherpin** » Sat Apr 21, 2012 2:45 am

Gimme the Marshmaster.

Winnah · Post by **Winnah** » Sat Apr 21, 2012 3:14 am

Sobriety is overrated.

I'll take the Jotun Skratti please.

Korwin · Post by **Korwin** » Sat Apr 21, 2012 7:11 am

Expensive and old age?

Bakemono Sorcerer 1427 (Shinuyama)

I'm shure I'm making an mistake...

angelfromanotherpin · Sat Apr 21, 2012 11:48 am

Korwin wrote:Expensive and old age?

Bakemono Sorcerer 1427 (Shinuyama)

I'm shure I'm making an mistake...

The Bakemono Sorcerer is great. Site searching, battle casting, sacred (so his upkeep is very reasonable), huge total paths and research, moderately thuggable... that guy can do pretty much anything you need him to, and he was on my short list.

Yes, you probably want to do something about the age issue - there are some options for that. But if you just want a more affordable guy to fill in when the BS is too pricey - you'll have a lot of options in your second pick.

Shiritai · Post by **Shiritai** » Sat Apr 21, 2012 2:35 pm

Damn, I was hoping for that sorcerer. Ah well, I'll go with the Pan 238 (Pangaea).

K · Post by K » Sat Apr 21, 2012 3:48 pm

King of the Deep 322 (Atlantis)

Cuz my first five choices were picked.

Username17 · Post by **Username17** » Sat Apr 21, 2012 4:21 pm

Shall I just write Zinegata down for the High Seraph then?

-Username17

Zinegata · Post by **Zinegata** » Sat Apr 21, 2012 4:24 pm

Sorry, not quite yet. I'm doing one last review right now.

Zinegata · Post by **Zinegata** » Sat Apr 21, 2012 5:09 pm

Okay, this will end up being brillant or idiotic.

The Mercenary Company of Sachs chooses:

Vanjarl 264 (Vanheim)

K · Post by K » Sat Apr 21, 2012 5:48 pm

Also going with a brilliant or boner move:

I'll take the second starspawn.

Tador · Post by **Tador** » Sat Apr 21, 2012 10:32 pm

i choose from Cealum High Seraph

Akula · Post by **Akula** » Sat Apr 21, 2012 10:59 pm

Tador wrote:i choose from Cealum High Seraph

I...question the logic here. The High Seraph's defining trait is mobility, and you already have the most mobile alternative. Meanwhile, having two high end expensive mages as your only option for research could very well bite you right in the ass. Overall I think that this was a super weak pick, especially when you could have snagged the minister of magic and gotten sick research to back up your high end mages.

angelfromanotherpin · Post by **angelfromanotherpin** » Sun Apr 22, 2012 4:10 am

Ulvolge calls the Priestess 242 (Arco).

Username17 · Post by **Username17** » Sun Apr 22, 2012 5:00 am

Akula wrote:
Tador wrote:i choose from Cealum High Seraph
I...question the logic here. The High Seraph's defining trait is mobility, and you already have the most mobile alternative. Meanwhile, having two high end expensive mages as your only option for research could very well bite you right in the ass. Overall I think that this was a super weak pick, especially when you could have snagged the minister of magic and gotten sick research to back up your high end mages.

Those are all terrible points. The High Seraph is a powerful researcher, is capable of leading flying troops which is totally different from teleporting troops. Even when you are doing teleport ambushes, the High Seraph can come along with Air Gems instead of Astral Pearls. The High Seraph is one of the strongest mages in the mix, and I'm really surprised to see him go so late in the draft.

But I agree that it's a fairly weak choice for Amblis. Not for any of the reasons you outlined, which I regard as fairly stupid. But simply because he has a lot of magic overlap with the Starspawn. The High Seraph brings A4W3D1S1 to the table. 9 points of magic diversity (which is honestly low-standard fora faction, but great for a build-anywhere unit). But Starspawn already bring W3D2S5 to the table, meaning that you're really only seeing 4 points of added magic diversity - you'd get more from a Mother of Avalon (A2N3), and for less than half the price. While A4 has a certain luster (in that it will allow you to forge Air Boosters), the Star Spawn will already definitely be making Rings of Wizardry.

Taking something really cheap like a Minister of Magic would be interesting, but again, he brings very little to the table that the Ilithid doesn't already know (just A1, which isn't good for much to be honest).

But hey: Amblis gets good picks throughout the leader selection phase, so maybe he has a plan involving the capital-only mage (picks 4th then 3rd), or Pretender God (picks 1st). It is literally impossible for anyone to pick block him out of any magic diversity he wants to get out of the pretender, because he picks first. So maybe he just wanted to have S5 and A4 as battle mages. They are very good battle mages.

-Username17