Seperated Out Edition War Derailment

[Josh_Kablack]

Do you know how to fucking read?

Obviously many people here don't.

I mean, it's been patently obvious for months that everyone and anyone who registered in Feb 2011 is a complete and utterly irredeemable waste of time. Add them to ignore and move on.

[Fuchs]

I don't get why anyone still reads Plebian's posts.

[Kaelik]

Read Plebian's posts. Past tense. He's banned, so we will have to read ignore his third account now.

[DSMatticus]

I mean, it's been patently obvious for months that everyone and anyone who registered in Feb 2011 is a complete and utterly irredeemable waste of time. Add them to ignore and move on.

Hey, wait, I resent that. I signed up in April 2011 and I'm no Plebian (yes, the pun is both awful and intentional).

I don't get why anyone still reads Plebian's posts.

I hadn't had the pleasure of a serious exchange with him yet. I always wondered why everyone had him on ignore, and now I know.

[Maxus]

I hadn't had the pleasure of a serious exchange with him yet. I always wondered why everyone had him on ignore, and now I know.

Fuck you, man. Fuck you. Just HAD to poke the retard to see what he does, didn't you? Serves you right, dumbass.

Nah, actually, it's cool. I'll ignore him every time he rears his head. It was enlightening to read some of the articles that were brought up here.

[DSMatticus]

@Maxus, I know, I think I have a problem. I may be addicted to arguing on the internet.

@Plebian, I should know better than to indulge you, Plebian, but I have the nagging suspicion this account won't be around much longer anyway, so it can't hurt to have a little fun.

wait so I make the point that certain player-dictated mechanics are not the character conciously altering reality to bend to their whim and instead are the player influencing the narrative and then you take that to mean that it's impossible for a player to imagine these things happening from a player's perspective?

So, again, you're admitting that there is a disconnect between the narrative the player sees, and the narrative the character sees, and that the two narratives have to be fundamentally different to make sense? Because this is my argument - this is the very definition of dissociation and perhaps the worst thing you can do to immersion.

3.5 has connects between what the players see and what the characters see. The mechanics are representations of things that are actually a part of the game world. There is an equivalency between metagame concepts and in-world concepts. 4e does not have these connects. The player knows why the rogue can only use trick strike once a day, but there is absolutely no way you could ever explain that to the character without him going, "what the fuck? Is this... a game or something?"

So if you wanted to put yourself in the shoes of your character in 3.5, you can totally do that. You can play your character using nothing but the character's own understanding of the world. In 4e, you cannot do that, because there are things ONLY the player can know (the rules for daily usage) that are metagame information inside of a character's head.

Again, 4e discourages immersion, because you have to play your character at the metagame level instead of the in-world level. And you are flat-out admitting this.

[fectin]

Don't wrestle with pigs: you get muddy and the pig enjoys it.

[Bobikus]

Daily martial powers is a bigger player vs character disconnect than anything core in 3.5, and your athlete analogy fits at best a WoF mechanic, not a "1/day, but exactly when you choose to use it" mechanic in terms of the player/character connection.

[fbmf]

[The Great Fence Builder Speaks]
I like this thread, but keeping it open is just feeding a troll and cloggin up the webspace I pay for.
[/TGFBS]