Imagine if Hexblades Didn't Suck

[Koumei]

Interesting note: the team that made them actually commented off-the-record that, looking back, it's underpowered at what it does, and basically every other "I mix swords with spells" class does it better. They offered a few fixes (to be used all together), but even combined, it's still not very good.

So what would a Tome one look like? I figure they'd keep the basic hit die and all that, but then...
1. They have a Hex ability that scales with level. Maybe it's the 1/round Free Action Will Negates thing where using it doesn't cost you anything, or maybe it uses a real action but just works. Perhaps the "base" hex is the simple -2/-4/-6/-8 to "stuff" and then they gain a class feature that lets them apply specialist hexes that do crap like strip away immunities, cause bad conditions or whatever. If it does take a real action to use, then at some point let them apply it 1/round when they hit someone, because that sounds "Hex"y and also "Blade"y.

2. They should have either some small amount of spellcasting (mostly things that summon crap onto the field to annoy enemies without a save or that augment their own abilities, or that move them about the place and let them see the invisible and such) or gain SLAs or something. Honestly, were I doing it back in the day I'd tie it in with the Warlock and have them gain a very small number of Invocations, but let the Invocations all have another use (such as "Cloud of Concealment and Fatigue... a Hexed target treats it as Full Concealment and takes nonlethal damage every round." or various "Infuse this Invocation into your weapon: when it hits someone, _____" abilities). But you could also give them real spellcasting with all 9 levels, just a spell list that is very restricted, and not very many spells per day so it doesn't feel like their main thing.

3. People really liked the fact that they got a beefy Familiar (as in, it has more Hit Points than the party Wizard, never mind the Wizard's familiar) or a Shadow Companion. Besides, having pets is all the rage in games, so at level 4-ish, let them choose between:
[*]Gain an Improved Familiar. If it dies, the only drawback is you don't have it with you for a whole day/week. It's generally a low-intellect Magical Beast or Outsider that exists to assist in combat and maybe gets a few basic SLAs, so stuff like Hellhound, Winter Wolf or Imp. At higher levels, it's still basically a Hellhound, Winter Wolf, or Imp, it just has a lot of HP and hit dice and all that.
[*]Shadow Companion, maybe improve it a bit more so that it does Flank, and can make a basic Mind-Affecting attack.
[*]Summon a fiendish mount like a Blackguard, generally ending up as a Nightmare or something. This could honestly be just folded into the familiar options.
[*]Perpetual demon possession, granting a few benefits (starting with basic See In Any Darkness and Telepathy, then eventually gaining immunity to Mind-Affecting (and backlash on those that try it) and such).
[*]That demonic skin graft from Fiend Folio. I can't even remember what it does, but I think it might be useful. If not, alter it a bit so that it is.

Other abilities can be sprinkled on to fill levels such as Mettle, +Cha to saves, the Aura of Unluck, whatever. So as a class, it lets them resist stuff, curse people to lower their abilities, run up and smack them in the face, then use their spells/spell-likes to handle "the door is very far away" or "your enemy is flying and invisible".

What would people do? Because it's an interesting enough idea, even if the actual finished product is crap.

[Midnight_v]

If it was good I'd play it. Though to be honest, what is it supposed to even be thematically? I remember people making it the variant dusk-blade for a while. In the tome having the good Bab really really lessens the need for spell reliance too, so things could get wonky making it better then better feats as well, but sounds interesting to be sure.

Shadow Companion, maybe improve it a bit more so that it does Flank, and can make a basic Mind-Affecting attack

Was one of its strongest abilities right? Since it fucked up the saves of people, with no save. I remember people always trading out for it then taking improved familiar at a later level.

[OgreBattle]

Some gimmick to play around with d20 rolls would be interesting, like if someone within sight of a Hexblade gets a natural 20 on an attack or save the Hexblade can steal it as a free/maybe immediate action, forcing them to reroll and then they can spend their stolen luck to reroll any d20.

What are intereting "Fortune"/"Bad Luck" effects that already exist in D&D3e?

[Mask_De_H]

The main luck things are forcing rerolls and dice storage. Being able to declare a roll was a Nat 20 or a Nat 1 X times/day would be kind of cool.

[duo31]

There is the Luckstealer, you effectively Hexblade curse someone and for that minute, you get 2 points of Luck, which you can use to boost your own rolls, or buyback spent spells.

There is the Fatespinner, whose main ability is to boost save DCs.

Both require you be be a full caster though. 3rd and 4th level spells respectively.

Thematically they work well together, but mechanically it's shit.

[ishy]

The auspician prestige class from faiths & pantheons also deals with luck, faith and curses.

But for the hexblade, you really have to fix the spellcasting in somw way. Also implement a thematic way for them to deliver their spells while stabbing things in the face.

Add some minor hexes too curse someone / someone's entire family / bloodline with minor stuff (like say backpain because they're cursed with big boobs)
More hexes. Maybe look a bit at the pathfinder witch class to steal some hexes / spells (for example cursed earthseems nice, though needs not be 9th level)

If you give them a familiar don't give it a standard familiar, make it linked to the theme somehow (like say a black cat with some kind of misfortune ability or an animated voodoo doll or whatever). Maybe even let the familiar be the one who casts spells / hexes.

[Koumei]

Well if their spells had acceptable save DCs (so either full progression but with only a few spell slots per level, or stating "The Save DC for any spell is 10 + half HD + Ability Score Modifier"), you could quite happily fill a spell list with curses, and they happen to go around cursing people and also hitting them with sharpened slabs of metal. Which is kind of stepping on the toes of the Witch, Necromancer etc, admittedly, hence keeping it limited - and in that case you'd also want to actually not grant them general utility spells and make them rely on Feats for their other stuff.

Or you could go the other direction where their spells are all about self-boosting (See Invisibility, Fly, Invisibility, Gaseous Form, Animal's Ability Score, Barkskin, Finger Darts, Magic Weapon, Acceptable Substitute For Polymorph) and conjuring "amounts of stuff" (less Summon Monster and Planar Binding, more Summon Swarm and Solid Fog).

I don't really see them as a "Luck" mage (and fiddling with the RNG in potentially broken ways isn't really that interesting in-play), more about actually cursing people with obvious afflictions. The basic Hex should really be the only one that is purely numeric and doesn't have physical symptoms.

As for Shadow Companion: not exactly Strongest, but everyone totally swapped out for it unless they wanted to go Improved Familiar for some kind of combat mount or touch-spell-delivery-system. Basically, it hangs around and gives people a -2 to AC and Saves, with no save, which is really handy (Charisma-based caster that also wants a good Strength and Dexterity and/or Constitution). Basically, it gives them -2 to their Saves, you then use a Free Action to Hex them (so the DC is effectively 12 + half hit dice + not-that-great Cha bonus), and then if you want to cast a spell on them, if you include their penalties you basically have a good chance of affecting them, even on fucking Paladin-casting.

[Seerow]

I don't know if it counts as Tome level, but I did a Hexblade rework a while back here.

Highlights include curses at will (with the limitation instead becoming how many creatures you can keep cursed at once, with more powerful curses counting against this limit multiple times), with more powerful and varied curses, the ability to become Charisma SAD, more spells per day, and the ability to channel touch spells through the weapon a la Duskblade. Oh and getting the Dark Companion ACF rolled into the familiar for free.

[Username17]

Luck powers mostly tend to be bonuses, penalties, or rerolls. And all of those are extraordinarily boring. Having a theme of getting a +2 Luck bonus to something is basically like having no theme at all. People are going to level appropriate bonuses anyway (in a perfect world). Getting them from "luck bonuses" is no different from getting them from "enhancement bonuses."

Curses and luck effects should do weird random shit, not move numbers up and down.

-Username17

[RadiantPhoenix]

Curses and luck effects should do weird random shit, not move numbers up and down.

-Username17

A Hexblade's curse should turn on the critical fumble rules for its victims, but more often?

[Ferret]

maybe impose 5e style disadvantage, (roll 2xd20, choose worst), eventually also adding penalties on top of that, with a chart for bad shit that happens if you fail by X, y, and z?

[Antariuk]

I think the Hex abilities from Pathfinder's witch could be a good starting point, or template for doing this. A full BAB class with limited spellcasting and Hexes (remodeled to work with attack deliveries) sounds like fun.

[...You Lost Me]

The luck-based enemies I've encountered in games applied debuffs flavored around luck. Like randomly assigning a target to take bonus damage, randomly creating special defenses, being uncounterspellable for a round, so on.

[NineInchNall]

1. They have a Hex ability that scales with level. Maybe it's the 1/round Free Action Will Negates thing where using it doesn't cost you anything, or maybe it uses a real action but just works. Perhaps the "base" hex is the simple -2/-4/-6/-8 to "stuff" and then they gain a class feature that lets them apply specialist hexes that do crap like strip away immunities, cause bad conditions or whatever. If it does take a real action to use, then at some point let them apply it 1/round when they hit someone, because that sounds "Hex"y and also "Blade"y.

Action denial scales better than penalties, so how about making the hex a thing sort of like Foil Action? Keep the requirement that the Hexblade sword the enemy, giving a reskinned Foil Action use for each hit against the target. Maybe as a free action.

[sake]

As horrible as it sounds, I''d probably would go with something like World of Warcraft's Deathknight class just minus the plate armor and ice themed stuff. So, lots of debuffs and dot's delivered by melee attacks, maybe a big special attack that scale up based on how many debuffs the Hexblade has dumped on the target, the ability to summon a short duration demon pet, and lots of life draining powers. And just for the hell of it, a spell that causes a demon's arm to burst out the ground, grab a flyer and drag them to within melee range of the Hexblade.

[CatharzGodfoot]

I like the curse as a combination of the knight's challenge and the shadow familiar. You sic your hex cat on your opponent as a swift action, flanking them. On your next turn, the hex cat starts dropping curses on the foe (say, -4 to attacks, saves, and skill checks). As other folks have suggested, throw in other debuffs at higher levels (blindness, fear, slow, enfeeblement, etc). When the foe damages you or the cat, it returns to your side.

The hexblade also needs a blade, something to encourage them to engage in melee combat despite the advantages of sitting back and repeatedly cursing someone.

Include softer luck & shadow themed defenses, such as blur, entropic shield, and displacement to augment medium armor.

In the end you should have a knight-like tank that feels very different and has some magic utility as well.