WBL in AD&D 2E

[K]

[The Great Fence Builder Speaks]
Split off from the AD&D 2E "confusion" thread here:
http://www.tgdmb.com/viewtopic.php?t=54 ... sc&start=0
[/The Great Fence Builder Speaks]

2.) AD&D didn't require you to have "what you needed to play the game at all".

Yeh, you've obviously forgotten the bad old days when werewolves would rip their way through the party that had no magic weapon because the DM used the random treasure and random encounters. Hell, it even sucked when only half the party couldn't hurt the werewolf/wight/whatever or were forced to resort to the 25 gp silver dagger everyone bought to plink away with tiny non-specialized damage. Mages lost spells most of the time when they got attacked because no one had protection items when they weren't being boned by Magic Resistence monsters and clerics never got to cast non-healing spells because healing potions had to be saved for emergencies as they were the only kind of non-cleric healing that ever showed up and they came randomly.

The game only worked when DMs customized the game and started placing PC-specific treasure or and PC-specific monsters and then made sure the monsters didn't do anything smart.

For all the flaws of 3e, at least people bypass DR consistently and actually have magic items that are useful like AC-boosters as a core conceit of the game. My 2e character sheet usually had almost two dozen items by level 7 and none of them were any good because random rolls would bone me.

I never played with anyone who selected treasure for us. I never even heard of anyone who got selected treasure since most people tended to use prepackaged adventures and locations or used the random tables.

YMMV.

[K]

I had many fucktarded MCs over the years. It boggles the mind. And when you think you have seen it all some says 'fun is the lowest form of entertainmet and way to lowbrow for fantasy roleplaying games'. Many agreed.

Honestly, most of it seemed to be the game and not the MCs. No one really knew which monsters to use or how to construct adventures because the game had no guidelines and most "DM advice" being tossed around tended to the lowest form of complete dickery.

There is a reason that Gygax is not just credited with making RPGs as a hobby, but also credited with some of the worst mistakes in RPGs. Most of the "how to run a campaign" advice in the books seemed designed to create an awful and humiliating experience and the early RPG designers had a lot to do with that.

[Count Arioch the 28th]

I would add that nearly all DMs are so afraid of the players doing something effective that they'll constantly change the house rules multiple times in the same battle to keep you from doing stuff.

[Hicks]

Most of this shit stems from the bad old days of 1e AD&D where you weren't supposed to know the rules. Back in those dark days, there was a name for somebody who knew the rules and sought to use them during play, and that name was "Rules Lawyer".

It was not a nice name, and all the printed literature up untill the D&D 3e was, "The Rules Lawyer is a bad person, an you should make him feel bad by punishing the Rules Lawyer at every opportunity."

2e also added the line ,"You should be punished for trying to obtain a horse at every opportunity."

I'm not saying that "Ye Olden Skoole" DM are exonerated for acting like a whole barrel of rancid cocks, but that that is how they were trained since 1e AD&D, from an impressionable age, in literally every printed book or magazine they bought.

[PoliteNewb]

Yeh, you've obviously forgotten the bad old days when werewolves would rip their way through the party that had no magic weapon because the DM used the random treasure and random encounters. Hell, it even sucked when only half the party couldn't hurt the werewolf/wight/whatever or were forced to resort to the 25 gp silver dagger everyone bought to plink away with tiny non-specialized damage.

Uh, I never remembered those days because they never happened. Seriously, werewolves can be killed by silver...which you have in your pocket at level 1. Nothing stops you from making a silver-headed mace that bashes werewolves for 1d6+1 damage and (with average rolls) kills one in about 4 hits. For that matter, I never saw the "oh noes we have no magic weapons"...official modules at the time handed out +1 weapons like candy, from 1st level. Somebody had a magic weapon of some kind by 3rd level at the latest. Finally...even with a piddly silver dagger, that 18/% Str fighter is dishing out some fairly serious damage; if you have a +4 str bonus, you can solo a werewolf with a silver dagger and win, it's not even that hard.

Mages lost spells most of the time when they got attacked because no one had protection items when they weren't being boned by Magic Resistence monsters...

As opposed to 3E, where everyone wonders why wizards are overpowered and fighters suck? 3E gutted magic resistance, let casters stack saves, and made spell disruption a joke...and the result is godwizards and CoDzilla. Yay casters?

My 2e character sheet usually had almost two dozen items by level 7 and none of them were any good because random rolls would bone me.

Dude, what the actual fuck? 24 items and none were any good? I don't even know how that's possible. Did your DM use some special custom table full of garbage? Would you like me to give you a couple of random lots of 2 dozen items? Because I would bet they will all have some rad shit.

I never played with anyone who selected treasure for us. I never even heard of anyone who got selected treasure since most people tended to use prepackaged adventures and locations or used the random tables.

Yeah, mileage does vary considerably...I'm sorry your DM was a shitheel. The fucking books even tell you not to rely just on random tables. That said:
a.) again, the random tables can give you totally sweet stuff pretty easily, unless you have the worst luck ever.
b.) prepackaged adventures were crazy-packed with sweet magic loot, so anyone who used those wasn't shafting you on items.

No one really knew which monsters to use or how to construct adventures because the game had no guidelines...

Is this really different than 3E, with its bullshit guidelines? I know that there's CR and EL calculators, but CR is broken as fuck and doesn't really mean anything...with stuff like CRs being nonsensical for things with class levels, dragons having the unwritten Awesome subtype, and shit like the GIANT FUCKING CRAB, you really don't know what the fuck a CR 5 even means.
When the day is done, the DM still needs to eyeball the encounter and make sure it's balanced. Just like always. And a newb DM can build an encounter "by the book" and still have it be a guaranteed TPK. Just like always.

...most "DM advice" being tossed around tended to the lowest form of complete dickery.

There is a reason that Gygax is not just credited with making RPGs as a hobby, but also credited with some of the worst mistakes in RPGs. Most of the "how to run a campaign" advice in the books seemed designed to create an awful and humiliating experience and the early RPG designers had a lot to do with that.

Upon reflection, this is actually pretty true. I know Gygax was a complete cock, and I pretty much ignored any advice the books tried to give on being a DM, because (as a player also) I recognized it for powertripping bullshit. So I'll concede that the game might have encouraged DM's to be dickheads. That said...if you're the kind of person who listens to a book that tells you to be a dickhead and be shitty to your players, you are a terrible person and I don't want to be in the same room with you for very long.

[K]

My 2e character sheet usually had almost two dozen items by level 7 and none of them were any good because random rolls would bone me.

Dude, what the actual fuck? 24 items and none were any good? I don't even know how that's possible. Did your DM use some special custom table full of garbage? Would you like me to give you a couple of random lots of 2 dozen items? Because I would bet they will all have some rad shit.

Yeh, it's pretty obvious that you didn't use the random tables and didn't use published adventures.

If you were lucky enough to not be forced to roll from just the potion or scroll table, the random tables only had a 20% chance to not be armor, potion, scroll, or weapon. You had a pretty good chance of ending up with some arrows, some armor that wasn't as good as plate, some potions or scrolls of spells you didn't care about, and maybe one good item.

The published adventures like Undermountain were no better since they seemed to take particular glee in hiding treasure in concealed tunnels behind outhouses or otherwise easily-passed over spots. They also did a lot of crap like making the first magic weapon you encounter an invisible magic dagger hidden in the room where a spectre is going to attack you.

PS. As for silver, I don't remember any equipment lists in the PHB letting you buy silver maces. Sounds like a houserule.

[PoliteNewb]

Yeh, it's pretty obvious that you didn't use the random tables and didn't use published adventures.

I used both, but neither exclusively.

If you were lucky enough to not be forced to roll from just the potion or scroll table, the random tables only had a 20% chance to not be armor, potion, scroll, or weapon. You had a pretty good chance of ending up with some arrows, some armor that wasn't as good as plate, some potions or scrolls of spells you didn't care about, and maybe one good item.

About 25%, but yeah, okay. Are you counting all potions, scrolls, weapons, and armor as "nothing good"? Because if you are, then I guess we just have some serious difference of definitions. Because shit like "scroll of 9th level wizard spells" and "sword of sharpness" are pretty badass, IMO. Magic swords and magic plate armor were actually pretty easy to roll up (35% of all magic armor is plate or better, and roughly the same percentage of magic weapons were magic swords).

That said, I'll freely admit that placed treasure is better than random treasure. Most DMs I knew used placed treasure.

The published adventures like Undermountain were no better since they seemed to take particular glee in hiding treasure in concealed tunnels behind outhouses or otherwise easily-passed over spots. They also did a lot of crap like making the first magic weapon you encounter an invisible magic dagger hidden in the room where a spectre is going to attack you.

Never played Undermountain. I remember playing some Forgotten Realms adventure trilogy where they basically handed you a minor artifact sword (the Sword of the Dales) as a plot device, at levels 1-4. Keep on the Borderlands (not 2nd edition, but a classic that everybody I knew played at some point) had shit like Wand of Paralyzation, Staff of Healing, magic plate mail, and a couple of dozen other magic items...again, for levels 1-4. Like I said, some AD&D adventures handed out tons of loot. Some of it is hidden, sure...some of it is on guys you stab.
(I will note that we mostly played older 1E modules, with relatively little adaptation...as you noted before, 1E and 2E are quite close. And those had a lot of crazy stuff.)

PS. As for silver, I don't remember any equipment lists in the PHB letting you buy silver maces. Sounds like a houserule.

DMG, chapter 6, has rules for armor made out of unusual metals (silver costs 2x normal, plus you supply the metal). If your DM won't let you use those rules to make a silver mace, you should punch him in the face and walk away.

[Red_Rob]

I'm going to have to call you out on this one K. 2e had a number of problems, but magic item profileration wasn't one of them. You may have had a few a-hole DM's, but by the book you generally got the magic items you needed.

Just to prove it's not my rose tinted nostalgia talking, I decided to crack open a couple of AD&D published adventures and see what treasure they provide, and how easy it is for the players to find it. Pretty much at random I chose The Sinister Secret of Saltmarsh and Against the Cult of the Reptile God. So, let's see what a party of 1st level AD&D characters could expect to find:

The Sinister Secret of Saltmarsh
A Ring of Protection +1 in a box described as 'easily discernable'
A Ring of Protection +1 in a Stirges Nest
Plate Mail +1 on a corpse in plain sight
A Spellbook with 6 spells in a hidden compartment under a table
5 potions in a box hidden under a flagstone (As a secret door to find)
A Spellbook with 5 spells in a secret drawer in a table
A Cursed Luckstone (-1 to all rolls) in plain sight
A Spellbook with 6 spells and a scroll of Gust of Wind in a secret compartment in a chest
A Longsword +1 used by the enemy captain
A Broadsword +1 used by the enemy First Mate
A Ring of Protection +1 and a Wand of Magic Detection used by an enemy spellcaster

Seems like a fair mix, including 2 magic weapons and a nice suit of magic armor. What about the next module:

Against the Cult of the Reptile God
A suit of Plate Mail +1 and a Spear +1 on an enemy cultist
A Shield +1 on an enemy cultist
A Dagger +1 on an enemy cultist
A Ring of Protection +1 on an enemy cultist
A suit of Chainmail +2 on an enemy cultist (admittedly a 7th level Cleric!)
A Brooch of Shielding in a chest buried in loose earth
A Shield +1 on an enemy cultist
A Short sword +1, +2 vs scaled creatures on an enemy cultist
A scroll of CLW x 2 in a chest 'hidden' under a bed
A Necklace of adaption in plain sight
A treasure pile guarded by the Big Bad including a Bag of Holding, a pair of Elven boots, a Ring of Protection +1, a Ring of Free Action (that it recommends not giving the party... whatever), 6 x potions and 2 scrolls.

I also left out several magic items held by friendly or non-threatening NPC's that could potentially be obtained by less than moral PC's. So, basically the idea that 2e characters didn't get enough magic gear by the books is untrue. If anything I'd say that magic items were too prevalent at the low levels, it meant that high grade normal gear like Full Plate or exotic weapons were obsolete by the time you could afford them because you had better magic gear.

The major problem with 2e items was the fact you couldn't buy them at any price by the book. This meant that playing an exotic weapon master was a fools game. The correct choice was to specialise in Longsword, because about 70% of the magic weapons were Longswords.

[K]

I'm going to have to call you out on this one K. 2e had a number of problems, but magic item profileration wasn't one of them. You may have had a few a-hole DM's, but by the book you generally got the magic items you needed.

Just to prove it's not my rose tinted nostalgia talking, I decided to crack open a couple of AD&D published adventures and see what treasure they provide, and how easy it is for the players to find it. Pretty much at random I chose The Sinister Secret of Saltmarsh and Against the Cult of the Reptile God. So, let's see what a party of 1st level AD&D characters could expect to find:

Why are you trying to prove something about 2e by referencing 1e modules?

Try something from 2e. For example, I took a very cursory look over the first level of Undermountain and found exactly one magic dagger +1 that the party would find without some special luck or having read the module, but it was on a dead party being looted so the DM might remove it if you missed that encounter.

The "invisible dagger +1 hidden in a room with an attacking spectre" is from that level.

Correction: I looked over Undermountain again and found a good magic sword just lying on a coffin. It's near the room where a Cursed spear is also just sitting on a coffin, so hopefully the PCs are still trusting of magic weapons lying in the open at this point in the adventure.

The invisible dagger is actually in a room with wereboars, not a spectre. The spectre is instead guarding a magic handax in his room if the encounter happens to not be a TPK.

Correction 2: There are actually two cursed weapons out in the open. I missed a cursed two-hander.

BTW, there are four magic weapons hidden in water, and two hidden under statues. Sometimes the water is poisonous.

There are also some drow with drow weapons, but those won't last unless you find the Underdark radiation room hidden on level 2 or 3, they don't get stolen when you leave them there to recharge, and you actually recognized it as such in the first place AND you've kept the weapons out of sunlight (not a sure thing considering the number of involuntary teleports in Undermountain that can toss you into the sunlight outside).

There is one magic scimitar in a coffin with a baneguard, but you get it after winning a fight with some flying daggers that rust your equipment so the odds are that you'll have lost some of your stuff as a result. Pretty much a no-gain encounter even if you win.

[Winnah]

Undermountain was not an adventure module.

Like the Ruins of Myth Drannor, it was a campaign setting designed to host several adventures.

A significant portion of the big poster maps were left for the DM to fill in and the various defined encounters were supposed to be replaced once cleared, or modified to suit your adventureing party.

A lot of the actual adventure hooks and plots were defined in the setting material, or you could just pleb through the thing as a massive random dungeon crawl if you were lazy.

Of course, by running Undermountain like that, a 1st level character had the chance of running into the crazy epic murdurhobo turned slasher-movie-villain-squatter, Halaster, the level 20-something wizard with n+1 vat clone bodies on standby and an army of clockwork constructs at his disposal. That is far more unfair than treasure allocation.

[Slade]

Why are you trying to prove something about 2e by referencing 1e modules?

Try something from 2e. For example, I took a very cursory look over the first level of Undermountain and found exactly one magic dagger +1 that the party would find without some special luck or having read the module, but it was on a dead party being looted so the DM might remove it if you missed that encounter.

The "invisible dagger +1 hidden in a room with an attacking spectre" is from that level.

Correction: I looked over Undermountain again and found a good magic sword just lying on a coffin. It's near the room where a Cursed spear is also just sitting on a coffin, so hopefully the PCs are still trusting of magic weapons lying in the open at this point in the adventure.

The invisible dagger is actually in a room with wereboars, not a spectre. The spectre is instead guarding a magic handax in his room if the encounter happens to not be a TPK.

Correction 2: There are actually two cursed weapons out in the open. I missed a cursed two-hander.

BTW, there are four magic weapons hidden in water, and two hidden under statues. Sometimes the water is poisonous.

There are also some drow with drow weapons, but those won't last unless you find the Underdark radiation room hidden on level 2 or 3, they don't get stolen when you leave them there to recharge, and you actually recognized it as such in the first place AND you've kept the weapons out of sunlight (not a sure thing considering the number of involuntary teleports in Undermountain that can toss you into the sunlight outside).

There is one magic scimitar in a coffin with a baneguard, but you get it after winning a fight with some flying daggers that rust your equipment so the odds are that you'll have lost some of your stuff as a result. Pretty much a no-gain encounter even if you win.

Cursed swords are magical so they will hurt the Spectre (they will lower damage or something stupid like that, but they work).
You have to hope it doesn't hit you back though.

Okay goiong through 2nd AD&D module, Return to the Keep on the Borderlands.
Not including money.
It even has advice that the DM not be a dick about traps!
Friendly NPC:
Sabine has a +1 chainmail, longsword +1,
Abercombie, Cleric: Shield +1, mace +1,
Jadale, Fighter: +2 Chainmail, +1 longsword,
Pawnbroker for sale has a Ring of Animal Friendship for sale for 20 gp, silver dagger with jeweled pommel (600 gp)
Aseneth, Necromancer: +1 Ring of protection,
Mouse, 2nd lv Thief: +2 dagger (longtooth), not wearing any armor for no reason as far as I can tell.


Neutral/bad NPC:
Mendel, 4th lv mage: Ring of conceal alignment, sign of Erkgishal, (lets him command undead), scroll (invisibility, MM, wraithform, feign death)
Thomas: +1 leather, +1 rapier, dagger of venom, cloak elvenkind
Holga: Cloak of Protection +2, Ring of Protection +1, dagger +2, Eing Fire Resistance, Boots Elvenkind, 3 dose Disappeance dust, Amulet of proof vs detection and location, Scroll: Improved Phantasmal Force, invisibility x2, web x2, Wraithform

Giant Spiders: Treasure scroll case with identify, sleep, unseen servant, MM
Willow wisp: Luckstone,
In cave of choas:
1/day Nystul's Magical Aura box
Catbird: +1 studded leather, +1 rapier,
Hurkul: +1 ringmail,
Troll: +1 quarterstaff,
Skeltar: Lapis Ring +2 Protection and +4 saves, Necklace of Missiles,
Zombire: Scroll protection from missiles, robe of useful things,
Fllesh Golem manual, Scarab of Opposite Alignment, pouch of accessability,

Gas Spores: +1 chainmail, 3 ioun Stones (Prism treats you as one level higher foir spells, HD, BAB, etc; Clear Spindle go without food/water; and iridescent allows you to stop breathing without adverse effects)

Rats: +1 chainmail, +1 warhammer, +1 crossbow,
Medusa: +2 ringmail, Elven Chamail. Shield +1 +4 vs Missiles, +3 2 handed sword,
Tarlech: Ring of Wizardry Special (grants ability to gain additional spells from high ability scores), Scroll Globe of invulnerbility, protect normal missiles
Mummy cat: Collor of fire resistance
Temple treasury: Multiple robes that grant prayer spell effect (at all times). Brooch of Shielding.

Black Knight, 5th lv fighter: Ring of sustence, Onxy Dog Figurine wondous power, Stone Horse, +2 platmail, Sword of wounding, ring of spell turning,
Huntress: +1 longbow, Shealth arrows +1, Handaxe +1, portable hole
Shambat: +2 scythe, Bracers of Defense AC 5, Ring of human influence, phyactery of long years, gem of insight, Amulet of life protection,
Nabu: Platemail of fear, Mace of life disruption (7 charges, each deals 5d4 negative energy on a hit, Horn of undead Valhalla (2d4+2 zombies), Necklace of prayer beads, potion of exta healing,

[shadzar]

what is worse in all of this is trying to say the edition itself, yet again, is based in any way shape or form by its accessories. Ed Greenwood didnt write 2nd, he wrote from his novels and made adventures based on them and the world he created BEFORE TSR existed.

try looking at the core books to say waht an edition does or doesnt do, not ever rock and stone that had its logo on it to suck money out of people. the adventures werent the game, just how people with little time chose to play it.

open a monster manual and DMG to see what magical treasure was available. (yes 2nd had no Ye Olde Magick Shoppe)

from the DMG:

treasure type:Magic Item
A:any 3, 30%
B:armor/weapon, 10%
C:any 2, 10%
D:any 2, +1 potion, 15%
E:any 3,+1 scroll,25%
F:any 5 except weapons, 30%
G:any 5, 35%
H:any 6, 15%
I:any 1, 15%

J:
K:
L:
M:
N:
O:
P:
Q:
R:
S:1~8 potions
T:1~4 scrolls
U:any 1, 70%
V:any 2
W:any 2, 60%
X:any 2 potions
Y:
Z:any 3, 50%

The first part of the table (letters A-I) lists treasures that are found in lairs only. These are sizeable treasures accumulated by social creatures (humans, orcs, hobgoblins, etc.) or by those creatures notorious for the size of their treasure hoards (especially dragons).

The second part of the table lists treasures likely to be owned by intelligent individuals or to be found in the lairs of animal intelligence or less monsters. These treasures are small. Intelligent creatures seldom carry large amounts of cash, while unintelligent ones seldom make the effort to collect it. When an individual or lair treasure warrants being larger than normal, several smaller entries can be listed to create an overall larger hoard.

Copyright 1999 TSR Inc.

not getting magic items, blame your DM for not placing them, or giving you monsters that would carry/store them.

to whoever mentioned "exotic weapon master" narrow focused character idea, no. most people took longswords because they were min-maxxing and no other reason but for the DMG it did.

check PHB chapter 5 where you find proficiencies and read correctly.

Related Weapons Bonus
When a character gains a weapon proficiency,


Specific decisions about which weapons are related are left to the DM. Some likely categories are:

Copyright 1999 TSR Inc.

you using chapter 5 screwed yourself when specializing in ANY weapon, and then you let the DM screw you when you let them choose narrow weapon groups or applied the RAW list provided.

also remember again Chapter 5 states it is optional, and then take note of specialization...

Weapon specialization is an optional rule that enables a fighter (only) to choose a single weapon and specialize in its use.

Copyright 1999 TSR Inc.

optional material within optional material, that leaves it up to the DM to fill out the ideas that werent fully developed for groups to tailor to their own needs.

see this is going to be a problem with DDN too, people just dont understand what optional or modular means, and how to properly use things in conjunction with each other to tailor it to work for the group playing the game....

or just look at the word "exotic" and realize you are falling into YOUR own trap, because you are choosing something that is NOT normal to find anywhere. try making a character that works with the group you are playing with and fits in the world it grew up in.

[K]

Cursed swords are magical so they will hurt the Spectre (they will lower damage or something stupid like that, but they work).
You have to hope it doesn't hit you back though.

No, they don't. Spectres are "magic weapon of +1 or better to hit", so cursed magic swords don't work.

As for Return to the Keep on the Borderlands, I don't know what to tell you. It's got a fuck-load more treasure than I ever saw in my entire adventuring career in 2e. Just the Flesh Golem Manual is better than an entire 3rd level party combined.

The Dungeon Magazine adventures definitely didn't have that kind of loot.

[Almaz]

My DMs rolled on treasure tables but we tended to produce magic items pretty decently, and adventures I read tended to give out at least one +1 sword or dagger to a party by 3rd level at latest. I have to say, K, you were probably being dicked over by asshole DMs on that count, or you just had a staggeringly bad run of luck.

[K]

Mmm, so I found some official 2e adventures online.

Fires of Zatal (1-3 adventure) has a total of two magic weapons and one magic chainmail. They are the rewards for winning the adventure.

Touch of Death (1-4) has a Staff of Serpents and a scroll.

Night of the Walking Dead (1-4) has a longsword +1 and a dagger +1 and some assorted trash (potions, ring of protection +1).

[K]

My DMs rolled on treasure tables but we tended to produce magic items pretty decently, and adventures I read tended to give out at least one +1 sword or dagger to a party by 3rd level at latest. I have to say, K, you were probably being dicked over by asshole DMs on that count, or you just had a staggeringly bad run of luck.

I think most people tended to avoid the low-level adventures. I know we tended to do the 6+ ones because they were cool.

So a lack of good luck and DMs who skewed conservative on treasure might be an explanation.

[K]

Of course, by running Undermountain like that, a 1st level character had the chance of running into the crazy epic murdurhobo turned slasher-movie-villain-squatter, Halaster, the level 20-something wizard with n+1 vat clone bodies on standby and an army of clockwork constructs at his disposal. That is far more unfair than treasure allocation.

Halaster never shows up at any level unless you start dismantling large sections of the dungeon and moving in. Being a presence that is felt and not seen is kind of his thing.

You are also confusing Halaster with his apprentice that does the clockwork stuff (Trobriand).

Undermountain is basically just a big module and a precursor to the adventure paths. There really was an assumption that some people would start at 1st and end at 20th doing just Undermountain.

[Winnah]

Halaster is on the wandering monster chart.

He is just as likely to follow adventurers home and rub his dick on their windows as he is to give them a sack full of magic beans.

As he is a level "fuck you" wizard, Chaotic Evil and described as a collossal douche, an encounter with him is not neccesarily lethal, but always inconvenient. A tool for 2e DM power-tripping.

Also, Clockwork Horrors follow Halaster's commands. Even the ones that have not been built yet. A little gift from Trobriand that supercedes the Clockwork Horror control items lying about Undermountain. Ring of Trobriand? Or was it a rod? I can't be bothered to get my 2e stuff out of storage. Point is, you can get an army of the fuckers to clear out Beholder Deathspheres and Skullport for you, but if you bring them to bear against Halaster, he will follow you home and rub his dick on your window.

[Rawbeard]

Halaster sounds like a fun guy to hang out with. If you are into following people home and rubbing your dick on their window.

[Winnah]

He is an Ed Greenwood dick extension character. The second or third most powerful wizard in the Realms.

When Elminster was captured by Asmodeus, Mystra recruited Halaster to rescue him. Even the Prince of Hell balks at how batshit insane Halaster is.

[hogarth]

Hurkul: +1 ringmail
[..]
Gas Spores: +1 chainmail
[..]
Rats: +1 chainmail
[..]
Medusa: +2 ringmail

This shows one big problem with (A)D&D in general: Once you can afford plate armor, stuff like +1 ringmail and +1 chainmail is basically garbage. So if your DM is saying "Look, you have lots of magic items!" based on shit like magic ringmail, screw him.

[Rawbeard]

Longswords and Daggers also seem really useful for twats that trained in slings and broadswords.

[K]

Halaster is on the wandering monster chart.

He is just as likely to follow adventurers home and rub his dick on their windows as he is to give them a sack full of magic beans.

As he is a level "fuck you" wizard, Chaotic Evil and described as a collossal douche, an encounter with him is not neccesarily lethal, but always inconvenient. A tool for 2e DM power-tripping.

Also, Clockwork Horrors follow Halaster's commands. Even the ones that have not been built yet. A little gift from Trobriand that supercedes the Clockwork Horror control items lying about Undermountain. Ring of Trobriand? Or was it a rod? I can't be bothered to get my 2e stuff out of storage. Point is, you can get an army of the fuckers to clear out Beholder Deathspheres and Skullport for you, but if you bring them to bear against Halaster, he will follow you home and rub his dick on your window.

I hate to break it to you, but nothing you've said is reflected in the material.

Halaster does not appear on any Wandering Monster chart. There is no mention of him having any abilities over scaladars (though Trobriand has a Master Ring that let's him override Rings of Trobiand that do control scaladars, so I'm not sure why Halaster would be able to do so without a ring). Skullport is guarded by literally an unlimited number of wizshades and an epic necromancer and clearing it out with clockwork horrors or scaladar should not be possible. For fuck's sake, the clockwork horrors aren't even controllable by rings (scaladars are the ones controlled by the rings) and Trobiand can only make the shitty copper clockwork horrors anyway(well, he can make one at least... there is no mention of others).

That being said, Halaster is one of Greenwood's penis-mages. That's right at least.

[OgreBattle]

Undermountain probably inspired Wizardry, and I like those games

[Voss]

Undermountain probably inspired Wizardry, and I like those games

Not without a time machine.