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[Tome of Tiamat] True Dragon

 
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Hicks
Duke


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 05, 2009 9:18 pm    Post subject: [Tome of Tiamat] True Dragon Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

TRUE DRAGON
"Roawr!"
True Dragon Racial Traits
• Medium Quadruped: True Dragons are considered quadrapedal and long creatures for the purposes of encumbrance and reach.
• Base land speed of 30 feet
• Fly speed of 60 feet (Average, -1 maneuverability category per natural size increase (min: clumsy) )
• Darkvision 120 feet
• Low Light Vision (x4)
• +4 Dex
• Immunities (Ex): A True Dragon is immune to Paralysis, Sleep, non natural aging, and the damage type of its breath weapon
• Breath Weapon (Su): A dragon has a breath weapon that it may used as a standard action once every 1d4 rounds that does 1d6 points of energy damage per character level of the dragon. Anything caught in your breath weapon’s area may make a (10 +1/2 hit dice + CON modifier) reflex save for half damage. The type of energy damage inflicted and the area of the breath weapon depends on the subtype of the dragon

    Elemental Type Breath Weapon Area and Damage Type
    Air 30’ Cone of gaseous Poison (Reflex save becomes a Fort save)
    Cold 30’ Cone of Cold
    Earth 60’ Line of Electricity
    Fire 30’ Cone of Fire
    Water 60’ Line of Acid

• Subtypes: A True Dragon has the Dragon type and the Air, Cold, Earth, Fire, or Water subtype, which determines its basic looks and name, and grants a minor ability.
    Elemental TypeNameAbility
    AirGreen DragonManeuverability increased to and stays at perfect
    ColdWhite DragonVulnerability to fire
    Dragon Rime (Su): Your Breath Weapon ignores cold resistance, Cold Immunity instead halves damage
    EarthBlue DragonBurrow at ½ its fly speed
    FireRed DragonVulnerability to cold
    Dragon Fire (Su): Your Breath Weapon ignores fire resistance, Fire Immunity instead halves damage
    WaterBlack DragonBreathe Water (Ex) and Swim at ½ its fly speed


• Natural Attacks (Ex): A dragon has 3 natural Attacks; one bite attack (which has reach) and two claw attacks, each does damage equal to one size category larger than the true dragon.
• Optional Racial Hit Dice: Most base classes have a minimum age prerequisite. If a True dragon wishes to enter any class other than the Dragon Monster Class, it must take Dragon Monster Class levels until it meets the minimum age prerequisite (usually 2-3 levels).

Dragon Monster Class
Racial Prerequisite: Must be a True Dagon
Hit Die: d12
Skills: 6 + INT, minimum 1. Dragons are a diverse lot; therefore, every skill is a class skill for a Dragon. However, each true dragon must first max out the skills associated with it before it may spend ranks in other skills (Balance and Climb for White, Hide and Swim for Black, Bluff and Listen for Blue, Survival and Diplomacy for Green, Sense Motive and Appraise for Red).

    LevelBABFortitudeReflexWillpowerSpecial Ability
    Wyrmling
    11+2+2+2Age, Natural Armor, Fast Flier, Mental Ability Boost +2
    22+3+3+3Spell Resistance
    33+3+3+3 Alternate Form, Know no Fear
    44+4+4+4Sphere
    Young
    55+444Growing Pains, Tail Slap, Mental Ability Boost +2
    66+5+5+5Deep Breath
    77+5+5+5Damage Reduction 5/magic
    88+6+6+6Sphere
    Adult
    99+6+6+6Growing Pains, Crush, Scary Presence, Mental Ability Boost +2
    1010+7+7+7Deep Breath
    1111+7+7+7Damage Reduction 10/magic
    1212+8+8+8Sphere
    Old
    13 13+8+8+8Growing Pains, Tail Sweep, Fearful Presence, Mental Ability Boost +2
    1414+9+9+9Deep Breath
    1515+9+9+9Damage Reduction 15/magic
    1616+10+10+10Sphere
    Wyrm
    1717+10+10+10Growing Pains, Panicking Presence, Mental Ability Boost +2
    1818+11+11+11 Deep Breath
    1919+11+11+11Damage Reduction 20/epic
    2020+12+12+12Sphere, Legend of the Great Wyrm

Class Abilities
Weapon and Armor Proficiencies: Dragons are proficient with all their natural weapons gained from class abilities (including Alternate Form) and with simple weapons when in a humanoid form. Dragons are not proficient with armor or shields of any kind.

Age: Advancement in the Dragon Monster Class is based not only on accumulated experience, but on age too. To determine how old a dragon must be in years to advance to the next level in the dragon monster class, add 1 to the sum total of its levels then multiply by the next level of advancement. For example: to attain 7th level, the dragon must be at least 196 years old ((7+6+5+4+3+2+1) x 7).

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Natural Armor (Ex): The older you get, the tougher your scales become. Starting at first level you gain an unnamed natural armor bonus equal to your class level.

Fast Flier (Ex): The older you get, the stronger your wings become. Starting at first level your fly speed increases by 10 feet for every class level.

Mental Ability Boost (Ex): The Older you get, the smarter you become. At first, fifth, ninth, thirteenth, and seventeenth level, you get a +2 unnamed bonus to your Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma.

Spell Resistance (Su): You are a creature of magic, and the more you learn of it the better you can resist it. At second level you gain spell resistance equal to 10 + your character level

Alternate Form (Su): Here there be dragons. At third level, you gain the supernatural ability to alter your form into any medium Animal or Humanoid once per day per class level for an indefinite duration.

Know no Fear (Ex): You’re at the top of the food chain, and you know it. At third level, you become immune to any Fear effect or condition.

Sphere (Sp): You gain access to any one fiendish sphere, only they aren’t fiendish to you and don’t turn you into some scion of evil. They may not act as prerequisites for any fiendish class or [fiend] feat, but they do stack with any spheres obtained by any means. Additionally, any alignment specific spells (such as blasphemy or unholy sword) change to spells based on your alignment (ergo holy word or holy sword).
If you choose a sphere that would give you a subtype you already possess, your breath weapon die is increased to a d8 (for basic access), a d10 (for advanced access), or a d10 and is always empowered to do 1.5x damage (for expert access) instead of gaining a redundant subtype.

Growing Pains (Ex): You are so old, your base size increases to large at fifth level. Refer to pages 69 (for natural attack damage) and 291 (for ability increases and penalties) of the monster manual for the specifics on increasing size. At ninth level, your size increases to huge. At thirteenth level, your size increases to gargantuan. At seventeenth level, your size increases to colossal.

Tail Slap (Ex): At fifth level, you gain a natural Tail Slap attack of a dragon straight out of pages 68-69 of the monster manual

Deep Breath (Su): At sixth, tenth, fourteenth, and eighteenth level the area of you breath weapon increases; 20’ longer for a line, 10’ longer for a cone.

Damage Reduction(Su): Your hide is so tough, it ignores nonmagical weapons. At level seven, you gain DR 5/magic, which increases to DR 10/magic at level eleven, DR 15/magic at level fifteen, and becomes DR 20/epic at level nineteen.

Crush (Ex): At ninth level, you gain the Crush special attack of a dragon straight out of pages 68-69 of the monster manual

Scary Presence (Ex): At ninth level, you are really scary whenever you charge or use a SLA, and when doing those things all enemies with less hit dice than you within 10’ per class level must make a (DC 10 + ½ your character level + charisma modifier) will save or be Shaken for half your character level in rounds. Successful saves negate this fear affect.

Fearful Presence (Ex): At thirteenth level, you are very frightening whenever you charge or use a SLA, and when doing those things all enemies with less hit dice than you within 10’ per class level must make a (DC 10 + ½ your character level + charisma modifier) will save or be Frightened for half your character level in rounds. Successful saves negate this fear affect. This ability replaces Scary Presence.

Tail Sweep (Ex): At thirteenth level, you gain the Tail Sweep attack of a dragon straight out of pages 68-69 of the monster manual

Panicking Presence (Ex): At seventeenth level, you panic the pants off everyone whenever you charge or use a SLA, and when doing those things all enemies with less hit dice than you within 10’ per class level must make a (DC 10 + ½ your character level + charisma modifier) will save or be Panicked for half your character level in rounds. Successful saves negate this fear affect. This ability replaces Fearful Presence.

Legend of the Great Wyrm (Ex): Having survived for 42 centuries, you have tested and tried just about everything at least once. At twentieth level, once per round as an immediate action you may grant yourself the use of any one feat you meet the prerequisites for, or use any of your Spell Like Abilities. If your SLA may already be used as an immediate or swift action, you may instead use it as a non action and save your immediate or swift action for something else.

Sample Dragon
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This post is still under construction, expect edits in the future.

This class was designed when the Races of War first hit the internet to go with the Dragon Rider prestiege class. The Metallic verities were to be presteige classes for the Dragon monster class, but I never got around to doing them, mostly because I think chromatic dragons are cooler. The Age requirement was intended to be used as a guide line for DMs
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shadzar wrote:
those training harder get more, and training less, don't get the more.

Lokathor wrote:
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Last edited by Hicks on Wed Mar 10, 2010 9:04 am; edited 15 times in total
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Kaelik
ArchDemon of Rage


Joined: 07 Mar 2008
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 05, 2009 9:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

1) I would recommend making Dragon specific spheres. I'll happily generate some if you want.

2) I already had an idea for Force Dragons: d4 damage + bullrush, feel free to make one.

3) Your rules for Spheres granting subtype make basically no sense. There are only two spheres that grant a subtype, I'm not even sure they do, they might only grant immunity to a type. And if they do offer the subtype, they do it as the ability, which is identical for basic/advanced/expert access.

4) WTF was everyone smoking when they decided that Dragons as a Rule have to have higher stats than everyone at everything?

Other people are supposed to exist on the same RNG. You give them free size increases, cool, those are basically the equivalents of Tome feats at those levels. Why the fuck is every Dragon in the universe running around with a flat +10 to all mental stats?

That's really dumb. Wizards should be smarter than Dragons at every level.

You also built your example Dragon crappy, since Int and Wis do nothing for Dragons, and Cha does lots of crap.

I imagine you did that on purpose as an attempt to hide how off the RNG +10 to mental stats puts characters.
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IGTN
Knight-Baron


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 05, 2009 10:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

The aging as a requirement for levelling system is awful and you would be better off getting rid of it.
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Hicks
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 06, 2009 2:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Kaelik wrote:

3) Your rules for Spheres granting subtype make basically no sense. There are only two spheres that grant a subtype, I'm not even sure they do, they might only grant immunity to a type. And if they do offer the subtype, they do it as the ability, which is identical for basic/advanced/expert access.


They totally grant you the subtype. I wanted to give a dragon something if they would be otherwise be given nothing. Why in hell would a red dragon take the Fire Sphere? so I gave them a small bonus.

Quote:
4) WTF was everyone smoking when they decided that Dragons as a Rule have to have higher stats than everyone at everything?


I seriously made this like, what? 3 years ago? I was trying to take the dragons out of the monster manual and put a progression to it.

Besides, those SLAs suck, even with the +5 bonus to DCs. Nothing cool hapens with SLAs untill blasphemy comes online, and that bypasses saves. Miracle is 19th level, and at that end of the game, I honestly cease to care.
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"Besides, my strong, cult like faith in the colon of the cards allows me to pull whatever I need out of my posterior!"
-Kid Radd

shadzar wrote:
those training harder get more, and training less, don't get the more.

Lokathor wrote:
Commander: Ah! Adventurers! Perfect.
Tibellus: You can tell by the lobster on my head.


Stuff I've Made
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Kaelik
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 06, 2009 5:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Hicks wrote:
I seriously made this like, what? 3 years ago? I was trying to take the dragons out of the monster manual and put a progression to it.

Besides, those SLAs suck, even with the +5 bonus to DCs. Nothing cool hapens with SLAs untill blasphemy comes online, and that bypasses saves. Miracle is 19th level, and at that end of the game, I honestly cease to care.


So your official argument is: Spheres sucks, and the SLAs that go with them don't matter, and there is no way +10 racial to Cha would ever matter.

So if I wrote in at level 1 of Fiendish Conduit (FCs Get +10 to Charisma, just because I like breaking RNGS) that wouldn't ever be a problem?
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Hicks
Duke


Joined: 27 Jul 2008
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 06, 2009 3:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

No, that would be a problem. Using your example, Condouits only get a +2.5 bonus to DCs 'cuz they only go to 10th level.

Seriously, what is your problem? The highest a dragon can possibly pump one mental stat is only 40. That's, what, a +15 bonus? I'm really shaking in my boots when i have to roll a DC 34 save at 20th level, or even DC 33 at 17th.

Lets put this in perspective, a 20th level person will have either 18 or 12 + a bullshit ability modifier for their saves, which will be a minimum of +5 with the shitty 28 point buy and a maximum of +18 for a Fortitude save for creature who was advanced to size catagory: colossal. And even the minimum that is never gonna happen because the base 8 you get either goes into Charisma or some other dump stat if you're a sorcerer or whatever.

But let us say we are regarding a retard who put that starting 8 in an ability score that actually mattered. The spread is thus: DC 34 - a minimum save of 23 or 17 = 9 or 17. Wow, look at that. I didn't rape the RNG. You can kindly sit. The fuck. Down now.



On Spheres: Anybody can make any sphere they want, and I activly encourage everyone to add to our game. Spheres don't actually suck, but I would say that the Heresy sphere specifically is back loaded. Most spheres need at least Advanced access to start getting decent, because let's face it: a DC bullshit reflex save for a d6 fireball 1/day is tamer than my dog*.

*Of course, my dog made cerberus her bitch and breathes coldfire, but she really is such a sweety.
_________________
"Besides, my strong, cult like faith in the colon of the cards allows me to pull whatever I need out of my posterior!"
-Kid Radd

shadzar wrote:
those training harder get more, and training less, don't get the more.

Lokathor wrote:
Commander: Ah! Adventurers! Perfect.
Tibellus: You can tell by the lobster on my head.


Stuff I've Made
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Kaelik
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 06, 2009 5:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

WTF: So you think the fact that Dragons cast spells +5DCs over everyone else who makes a living casting spells isn't a problem at all?


I freely admit that saves are too damn high in Tome games and basically no PC can ever fail any save ever. But the actual monsters still fail them about half the time if you pick an average save, more for a bad one. Adding in an arbitrary +5 to everything for Dragons is dumb.

Why can't you make a Dragon class that has one stat lower than a normal character? Why do Dragons have to be +10 more charismatic, and also more intelligent, and also wiser, and also insanely stronger, and also more tougher?

WTF, make them melee beasts or make them Casters, but don't make them bullshit "all my stats are higher than all your stats" penis extensions.
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CatharzGodfoot
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 06, 2009 6:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Kaelik wrote:

I freely admit that saves are too damn high in Tome games and basically no PC can ever fail any save ever.


Wait, what?
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Kaelik
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 06, 2009 7:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

CatharzGodfoot wrote:
Kaelik wrote:

I freely admit that saves are too damn high in Tome games and basically no PC can ever fail any save ever.


Wait, what?


First of, all, I should have clarified that the progression is faster, and so that is true for all Tome games at higher levels, but still:

1) Most Tome classes have more good progressions for saves, many have all good saves, most of the ones with one bad save have reflex as the bad save.

2) Tome games make a free +5 to all stats at level 9-13 explicitly free, instead of counting against 'WBL'

3) Tome classes regularly get class features for higher saves, such as Barbarian all use Fort, or various +Xs for various types, or Wisdom adding to Monk reflex.

4) Tome makes +X to save feats really good instead of really shitty, since they start at +3 and add other good abilities, like making skill checks instead of saves.

5) Everyone get's +6 resistance starting about at level 11-13.

So a save progression for an 'average' Tome character at level 14 is going to look like:

Fort: +9 +7 Con +6 Resist
Ref: Make a Balance skill check (+17+6 dex+2-6 mis)
Will: +9 +2 Wis +6 Resist

For +22/+25-29/+17
Compare that to CR 14 monsters:
+9/+11/+17
+17/+12/+13
+21/+14/+19
+18/+13/+15
+14/+11/+11
+18/+16/+16

And that's assuming no class features, and someone with no use for Wis, which is odd, since Wisdom is awesome for every non Wizard in Tome games thanks to Tome feats.

Compare that to the DCs of a highly stat optimized 14th level Caster casting their highest level spell:

DC 10+7+12stat=DC 29.

He's got a 60% chance of failure if targetting the weak will save that the character didn't even bother to shore up. He might as well not bother the others.

Monsters on the other hand, even demons with unholy aura still barely breach 20 on their high saves.

Barbarians get "immune to all saving throws" as a class feature. Monks and Fighters have all good progressions, Monks use Wisdom for everything, and Tome Fighters can use anything they want. Samurai trade being immune to saves for being immune to projectiles, I admit, but every Fiend has immunities up the but and SLA defenses.

And that's without anyone using more than one item, so if we get into Tome Armors and Shields, and the Book of Gears item screwiness, it just gets worse.
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Hicks
Duke


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 07, 2009 2:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Kaelik wrote:
You also built your example Dragon crappy, since Int and Wis do nothing for Dragons, and Cha does lots of crap.

I imagine you did that on purpose as an attempt to hide how off the RNG +10 to mental stats puts characters.


I just remembered why I maxed out Wisdom in liew of Charisma.

Azragog's Feat List wrote:
Insightful Strike, plus like 6 other combat feats.


Yah... I don't really have an answer for why Intelligence is higher than Charisma.
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"Besides, my strong, cult like faith in the colon of the cards allows me to pull whatever I need out of my posterior!"
-Kid Radd

shadzar wrote:
those training harder get more, and training less, don't get the more.

Lokathor wrote:
Commander: Ah! Adventurers! Perfect.
Tibellus: You can tell by the lobster on my head.


Stuff I've Made
Click here to see the hidden message (It might contain spoilers)


Last edited by Hicks on Mon Sep 07, 2009 2:06 am; edited 1 time in total
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Kaelik
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 07, 2009 3:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Hicks wrote:
I just remembered why I maxed out Wisdom in liew of Charisma.

Azragog's Feat List wrote:
Insightful Strike, plus like 6 other combat feats.


Fair enough. And one more reason Dragons should not have a blanket +10 to Wisdom.
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