The Great Leap Forward in FantasyLand

Avoraciopoctules · Post by **Avoraciopoctules** » Tue Dec 04, 2012 11:28 pm

Let's say you are in a generic (or D&D) fantasy setting, and a major nation leader tries to do rapid industrialialization in what is a transparent reference to Mao's Great Leap Forward.

How would magic influence this? What kind of plothooks could it present for adventurers? How could adventurers or nation leaders work to undo or counteract the damage if mass starvation and official records filled with untrustworthy data on productivity both became clear and severe problems?

Korgan0 · Post by **Korgan0** » Tue Dec 04, 2012 11:38 pm

Spammed Walls of Iron combined with Fabricate would obviate the need for an iron industry, for one thing, assuming you could get high-level wizards on board and prevent them from snorting coke off demon-ass or whatever.

hyzmarca · Post by **hyzmarca** » Tue Dec 04, 2012 11:47 pm

It also depends on how much your DM will let you abuse the trap creation rules. Automatically resetting create food traps are perfectly rules legal, but do tend to violate teh spirit of the rules. .

codeGlaze · Post by **codeGlaze** » Tue Dec 04, 2012 11:52 pm

I think you'd have to brain storm a lot about magic's actual limits.
I know DnD doesn't really push the standard of there BEING limits. But I think that would make it a lot easier to envision.

Foxwarrior · Post by **Foxwarrior** » Tue Dec 04, 2012 11:55 pm

Skeletons work harder than peasants, especially after you've gotten one or two relevant feats. Normally, that's a great use of ancestors; when you're in a rush to meet quotas, however, it leads to spurious executions instead.

fectin · Post by **fectin** » Wed Dec 05, 2012 12:11 am

I've said it before: Necromancy is the easy answer to all your pseudo-industrial needs.

K · Post by K » Wed Dec 05, 2012 12:27 am

Foxwarrior wrote:Skeletons work harder than peasants, especially after you've gotten one or two relevant feats. Normally, that's a great use of ancestors; when you're in a rush to meet quotas, however, it leads to spurious executions instead.

Letting the undead handle your food and basic goods seems an excellent way to create a plague.

Foxwarrior · Post by **Foxwarrior** » Wed Dec 05, 2012 12:28 am

You should probably wash them frequently.

shadzar · Post by **shadzar** » Wed Dec 05, 2012 12:49 am

as the DM i would realize that the populace has no income to pay for anything and thus the idea is pointless as the kingdom wants taxes more than it does products to sell, so keeping the peasants on their backs so you can walk on them is worth more than the effort in this.

codeGlaze · Post by **codeGlaze** » Wed Dec 05, 2012 12:50 am

Foxwarrior wrote:You should probably wash them frequently.

Just cantrip that shit.

shadzar wrote:as the DM i would realize that the populace has no income to pay for anything and thus the idea is pointless as the kingdom wants taxes more than it does products to sell, so keeping the peasants on their backs so you can walk on them is worth more than the effort in this.

Actually, it's more along the lines of 'how do you deal with a Utopian society?'.

Presumably the undead would cost little to nothing to provide every service you'll need in society. Creating an entire populace of unemployed people who are still able to be fed and sheltered, at virtually no cost (aside from initial investment).

What does humanity tend to do when it's idle?
Yea.

Cynic · Post by **Cynic** » Wed Dec 05, 2012 1:21 am

shad: the inability to pay taxes really didn't stop Mao and his revolution.

fectin · Post by **fectin** » Wed Dec 05, 2012 2:40 am

K wrote:
Foxwarrior wrote:Skeletons work harder than peasants, especially after you've gotten one or two relevant feats. Normally, that's a great use of ancestors; when you're in a rush to meet quotas, however, it leads to spurious executions instead.
Letting the undead handle your food and basic goods seems an excellent way to create a plague.

I remember that one!
http://tgdmb.com/viewtopic.php?p=223989#223989

More seriously, that thread is right on topic for this thread.

Cynic · Post by **Cynic** » Wed Dec 05, 2012 2:53 am

What if instead of rapid industrialization, you want to create post WWII America with GI bill and whatever else is needed that increased the education level of the country. Can we use magic to speed this up?

I suppose in D&D, this would require people leveling up and just teaching them skills. But is there something that doesn't require a world full of lv 10+ commoners and experts?

Prak · Post by **Prak** » Wed Dec 05, 2012 2:57 am

Foxwarrior wrote:You should probably wash them frequently.

scrub and sanitize the bones prior to animation, command them to enter an antiseptic bath at whatever intervals you care to name, then walk through a rinse cycle. Seriously, every four hours*, walk them through fabricated grain alcohol to a depth of tallest skeleton height+1' and distance of ten feet, then under a decanter of endless water set to "fountain" over a grate over a wall of fire which evaporates the conjured rinse water that would otherwise do a number on your water table.

*Based on food safety concerns. It's said that food is safe for about four hours outside of safe holding temps (below 35° or above 140°)

Foxwarrior · Post by **Foxwarrior** » Wed Dec 05, 2012 2:57 am

Powerleveling the populace? I have just the exaggeration you need.

Cynic · Post by **Cynic** » Wed Dec 05, 2012 3:11 am

Wouldn't it just be easier to put the skeletons in a sterilized rubber suit?

Foxwarrior · Post by **Foxwarrior** » Wed Dec 05, 2012 3:16 am

Rubber doesn't exist, silly.

Alternative Answer: That Evil, Evil Negative Energy can leak through protective clothing, of course.

Prak · Post by **Prak** » Wed Dec 05, 2012 3:48 am

Even sterilized rubber has to be cleaned periodically.

shadzar · Post by **shadzar** » Wed Dec 05, 2012 3:53 am

Cynic wrote:shad: the inability to pay taxes really didn't stop Mao and his revolution.

so they become slaves to the industry, or pack up and move to a neighboring town that will protecting them and upon hearing of the witchcraft and evil things going on this neighboring kingdom sets forth to destroy the industrial one....and take its stuff.

Ted the Flayer · Post by **Ted the Flayer** » Wed Dec 05, 2012 3:56 am

Slaves to industry or slaves to some feudal baron, life pretty much sucks to be a serf any way you slice it.

erik · Post by **erik** » Wed Dec 05, 2012 4:08 am

Foxwarrior wrote:Rubber doesn't exist, silly.

You bastard.

Apologize to the trees, you're making them cry.

Cynic · Post by **Cynic** » Wed Dec 05, 2012 4:20 am

boiled dragonhide padded armor that has a glassteel viewing area for the eyes?

hell Glassteel padded armor. It's only 9000 gp. I'm sure there are ways to reduce that price in some fashion.

There are totally ways to completely encase the skeleton without letting them actually have the water have any contact with their skin.

Are there any spells that also do this?

codeGlaze · Post by **codeGlaze** » Wed Dec 05, 2012 4:31 am

Cynic wrote:boiled dragonhide padded armor that has a glassteel viewing area for the eyes?

hell Glassteel padded armor. It's only 9000 gp. I'm sure there are ways to reduce that price in some fashion.

There are totally ways to completely encase the skeleton without letting them actually have the water have any contact with their skin.

Are there any spells that also do this?

Concoct a spells to do it.
Or just purify everything post-processing.

Cynic · Post by **Cynic** » Wed Dec 05, 2012 5:18 am

shad: Do you know anything about Mao's revolution?

The OP isn't talking about a small scale one-town project. If you do this for a nation and work it properly, the leaders don't really have to care about taxation rebellion.

K · Post by K » Wed Dec 05, 2012 6:03 am

codeGlaze wrote:
Cynic wrote:boiled dragonhide padded armor that has a glassteel viewing area for the eyes?

hell Glassteel padded armor. It's only 9000 gp. I'm sure there are ways to reduce that price in some fashion.

There are totally ways to completely encase the skeleton without letting them actually have the water have any contact with their skin.

Are there any spells that also do this?
Concoct a spells to do it.
Or just purify everything post-processing.

If your skeleton-processing plant isn't full of baleful ghosts and undead curses, you aren't in a fantasy setting. There's major juju in something that terrible.

That's the fundamental problem with undead-based schemes. The stories you tell when there are many undead have to play out like Diablo and not like some Maoist propaganda film.

So yes, building a dark pyramid using undead slaves that blots out the sun with it's evil radiance is something that happens in a fantasy setting with disturbing regularity, but there is no version of "raises the undead to serve my will" where good things happen.