[Tome] Speedened

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Vebyast
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[Tome] Speedened

Post by Vebyast »

First of all, greetings. I was bored, I had an idea for a class, and a friend pointed me here. Fun place. I think I might stick around.

Second, that class idea I mentioned.

[edit] This class has moved to the wiki here.[/edit]

Speedened
"Objection!"

To most, combat is a frenzied whirl of destruction. No time to think, barely even time to act. No so to a Speedened. Through specialized training and nontrivial magic, they have accelerated themselves beyond the reach of even the fastest mundane athlete. To a Speedened's accelerated eye, combat is a graceful dance of cause and effect, more like a puzzle than a struggle. The Speedened's abilities let him dissect that puzzle, picking at momentary weaknesses and disrupting his enemies' efforts.

Playing the Speedened: A well-played Speedened is a flurry of precise, calculated interruption, denying enemies even the chance to attack. Ideally, the vast majority of your actions should occur during other peoples' turns. When a caster tries to blow you up, break his concentration. When a fighter tries to attack you, dodge him and trip him. Move when you shouldn't be able to move, do things that people don't expect you to be able to do. The class gives you the ability to take action at basically any time, and you should use that ability.

Since the Speedened is highly complex tactically, it is not recommended for inexperienced players. Speedened may not have as many different abilities as a caster of equal level, but they may act in response to nearly any action, and knowing which actions to react to requires a great deal of experience.

Alignment, Races and People: Speedened arise in most races, but are more common in very dexterous or graceful races such as Elves and Halflings. Their abilities make them useful in emergencies and when speed is critical, since they can safely accomplish in minutes tasks that would take others hours. They are also commonly trained as thieves, ninjas, and assassins, as their incredible speed allows them to easily penetrate defenses that would otherwise be unassailable.

On the Naming of Action Types: In D&D, there are six different types of actions that can be taken during a round. They are "full-round", "standard", "move", "swift", "immediate", and "free". Unfortunately, the two most common of these were named directly from their most common uses. Given how much this class monkeys around with the action economy, some clarification will be required. A "Standard Move" is distinct from a "Move Action". The first is an action that takes a Move Action and moves you your speed. The second is a unit of time.

In this class, "Move Action" is used consistently in the second meaning, as a unit of time. "Movement action" means changing your position by any means listed in "Modes of Movement"; this typically take a Move Action.


Class Skills: the Speedened's class skills are: Balance (Dex), Disable Device (Int), Knowledge [dungeoneering] (Int), Hide (Dex), Concentration (Con), Climb (Str), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Craft (Int), Sleight of Hand (Dex), Tumble (Dex)
Skill Points per Level: 4

Hit Dice: d6
BAB: Moderate
Fortitude save: Poor
Reflex save: Good
Will save: Poor

LevelAbilities
1Slide Movement, Slide, Opportunism, Speed Tricks200000
2Advanced Learning300000
3You Move Like They Do310000
4Blueshift320000
5Integrated Slide331000
6Whoa332000
7Reflexes332000
8Blueshift 2333100
9333200
10Improved Reflexes333200
11333310
12Blueshift 3333320
13333320
14433331
15Precognition443332

Spellcasting: spellcasting

Abilities:

Slide Movement (Ex): Speedened are so blindingly fast that they can even do things while it is not their turn. A Speedened has a pool of "Slide Movement", which they can expend to interrupt others' actions. Most uses of Slide are free actions at any time; Speedened can even do things like wait until a Wizard declares the target square of his ''Fireball'' before choosing how to use their Slide Movement. A Speedened has five feet of Slide Movement per round per Speedened class level; this improves to five feet of Slide Movement per character level when they gain Integrated Slide later. A Speedened's Slide Movement replenishes at the beginning of his turn. Speedened may not expend Slide Movement while flatf-footed until they gain the Reflexes ability later.

Note that attack rolls and damage rolls occur simultaneously, so Speedened must choose to use their abilities before attack rolls are resolved.

Slide (Ex): The most basic use of Slide Movement, and the ability from which it takes its name, is the ability to move. By expending 5' of Slide Movement as a free action at any time, a Speedened may move 5' by any means for which they have a listed movement speed. For example, a Speedened with a land speed could expend 10' of Slide Movement to instantly translate 10', moving himself out of the area of a Fireball. Sliding does not allow a Speedened to dodge targeted attacks, but it does allow him to void preconditions such as range, areas of effect, or line of effect. For example, a Speedened being attacked by an archer could not move out of the way once an attack roll has been made, but could move to break line of effect so that the archer could not make the attack roll in the first place. In general, Speedened may Slide out of areas of effect and may void preconditions, but it's too late once a roll has been made.

A Speedened provokes attacks of opportunity as normal while Sliding, although they may also make tumble checks to suppress attacks of opportunity as normal.

Opportunism: Speedened are able to take advantage of any opportunity they see. They make make any number of AoO's per round.

Speed Tricks (Ex): At every level, the Speedened gains one ability from the following list:
  • Snatch: You can attempt to grab spell components, arrows, or similar small objects held by an adjacent target as an immediate action. The target makes a reflex save against your own reflex save bonus; if they fail, you ends up holding the item, and their action fails if it was employing that item.
  • Hey, Over Here!: You attempt to distract enemies, safely provoking attacks of opportunity from them in hopes of catching them off-balance. By expending 5' of Slide Movement while in a square adjacent to an enemy, you may provoke an attack of opportunity from every enemy that threatens you, all of which automatically miss.
  • Contrail: When you begin a run or double move action, until the beginning of your next turn, any square you occupy immediately becomes filled with condensation clouds formed the shock of your passage. These squares behave as if filled with Obscuring Mist. These clouds disperse after one round per Speedened level.
  • Defensive Awareness: When taking a full defense action, you may additionally concentrate on responding more efficiently to threats nearby. When in the square you declared the full defense action in and any squares adjacent to it (edges and corners), you may use your Slide ability without expending Slide Movement.
  • Defensive Mastery: The area affected by Defensive Awareness expands to any square adjacent to its original area (any square touching any square touching your original square).
  • Faster: All of your listed modes of movement improve by 15'.
  • Air Dodge: You may Slide as though you had a perfect fly speed listed. This ability does not allow you to negate falling damage. If you try to do that the DM gets to hurt you (more than the falling already would, that is).
  • Ground Dodge: You may Slide through earth, clay, sand, etc as though you had a burrow speed listed. You do not leave a tunnel behind you. Note that if you end your movement inside, say, a rock, you get what you deserve.
  • Pop: Once per round as a free action, you may spend up to 10' of Slide movement to teleport an equal distance, as Dimension Door (except that this effect does not end your turn). You must be able to cast Dimension Door to take this speed trick.
  • Back Attack: Whenever you slide or move out of a space, you threaten enemies as if you were in that space until the beginning of your next turn.
  • Dive for Cover: You may spend 5' of Slide Movement to automatically succeed on any single reflex saving throw against an attack that deals half damage on a successful save. If you have Quicken 2, you may spend an additional 5' of Slide Movement to avoid the attack entirely.
  • Surf the Shockwave: If you are subjected to an area attack which allows a reflex saving throw for half damage, you may spend 10' of Slide Movement to attempt to have the power of the effect carry you to its edge without hurting you. Make a Balance check against the DC of the effect's reflex save. If you succeed, you move to the nearest edge of the effect and you take no damage. If you fail, nothing happens, and you automatically fail the reflex save to avoid half damage.
  • Deflect: If you are within 5' of the origin of a non-conical area of effect, you may expend Slide Movement to deflect the effect. For every 5' of Slide Movement that you spend, you may move the origin of the effect up to 10' in any direction. If you are within 5' of the origin of a conical area of effect, you may expend Slide Movement to change the direction of the cone by 45 degrees per 5' expended.
  • Block: If a line of effect passes within 5' of you, you may choose to block that line of effect with yourself, causing it to hit you or your square instead of its original target. For example, you could intercept an arrow, taking damage as if it had hit its original target, or you could intercept a Fireball, causing it to detonate in your square.
  • Standing Still: Your incredible speed and precision make you able to see through an opponent's dodges and parries as if they didn't exist. You may spend 10' of Slide Movement to make your target flat-footed against one attack you make against them before the end of your next turn.
  • Facestab: Your speed allows you to take perfect opportunities in combat. When you hit with an attack, you may expend Slide Movement to add bonus damage to your attack at a rate of 2d6 damage per 5' expended. This ability can't be used against things immune to sneak attacks.
  • Keyhole: You have all the time in the world to line up shots. You ignore any concealment less than total, and you may fire into melee without penalty.
  • Double Team: You may expend 5' of Slide Movement to create an illusion of yourself, as the spell Mirror Image. This image lasts for one round, though you may expend an additional 5' of Slide Movement at the beginning of your next turn to maintain a Mirror Image that you created earlier using this speed trick. You may maintain as many of these images as you want. Images created using this ability interact with actual castings of Mirror Image as if they were part of the spell. You must be able to cast second-level Speedened spells to take this Speed Trick.
  • Friction: By rubbing your hands together really really fast, you can make fire. You gain Produce Flame, as the spell, as a supernatural ability usable at will (it can be Blueshifted), using your Speedened class level as the caster level. You must be able to cast first-level Speedened spells to take this Speed Trick.
  • Sonic Boom: By moving really fast in a straight line, you can create a powerful blast of air. Any time you use Slide to move ten or more feet in a straight line, you may choose to generate a Gust of Wind effect in roughly the direction of the movement (up to about 45 degrees of deflection). This effect uses your Speedened class level as its caster level.
  • Hide in Plain Speed: You literally move fast enough to avoid eyes. By expending 20' of Slide Movement, you may evade one person's gaze. You benefit from the effects of Greater Invisibility as far as they're concerned until the end of your next turn. This also protects you from gaze attacks.
  • Spelltrail: When you cast a spell with an area of effect, you may choose to trail it behind you as you move instead of using its normal area of effect. When you do this, determine the number of 5' squares that its area fills. For the next ten minutes or until you have moved that number of squares, whichever comes first, every square you leave is immediately filled with that spell effect.
  • Judo: Immediately following a successful Trip attempt, you may expend Slide Movement to throw the enemy. This is like the Violent Thrust ability of Telekinesis, except that it allows an opposed reflex save instead of a will save and it has no weight limit. The target is thrown 10' per 5' of Slide Movement expended.
Advanced Learning: At every even-numbered except first, a Speedened may add any single spell to their Speedened spell list. This spell must be of a level he can already cast, and must be from the Cleric, Druid, or Sorcerer/Wizard spell lists.

You Move Like They Do (Ex): You may cause a single ranged attack to miss you by spending 5' of Slide Movement. For example, a Speedened could expend 15' of Slide Movement to cause three Scorching Rays to automatically miss.

Blueshift (Ex): Speedened simply move faster in every way. Every action that the Speedened takes may be moved one step to the right in the following list. If an action does not fit cleanly into one of these categories or takes longer than ten minutes, use the DM's best judgment. Something that is already an immediate action remains as an immediate action, although in ludicrous circumstances (an immediate action reduced by four steps, for example) the DM may make a custom ruling.
Ten minutes --> One minute --> Full-round --> Standard action --> Move action --> Swift action --> Immediate action

This ability does not apply to spellcasting not gained as part of the Speedened class, nor does it apply to spell-like abilities. You also don't get to try to break the game using Runestaffs or crap like that. If you do, the DM gets to hurt you.

This ability does not work while the Speedened is flat-footed.

Speedened with this ability may converse at length as a free action, although some limits still apply (DM's judgment).

Integrated Slide: The Speedened has learned how to integrate his Slide not only with the techniques specially created for Speedened combat, but with all of his actions. The amount of Slide Movement he gets per round is now based on his character level instead of his class level.

Whoa (Ex): The Speedened moves fast enough that they can trick the eye into misplacing them for a split second, and the Speedened is fast enough that this split second is enough. When a Speedened uses You Move Like They Do to evade a ranged attack, they may expend an additional amount of Slide Movement to cause that ranged attack to retarget itself on something nearby. The Speedened chooses a valid target for the attack within 10' for every 5' of Slide Movement they expended, and the attack is treated as if it had been originally targeted at the new target.

Reflexes: The Speedened has sped up so much that they can react before they physically should be able to. The Speedened can now expend Slide Movement while flat-footed.

Blueshift 2 (Ex): The Speedened's Blueshift ability improves so that he may Blueshift every action by two steps instead of one. For example, a Speedened with this ability could reduce full actions to move actions, allowing them to take two full run actions per round.

Improved Reflexes (Ex): As their reactions approach physical impossibility, Speedened become able to react to events before they happen. A Speedened with this level of ability is never flat-footed and is never denied their Dexterity bonus.

Blueshift 3 (Su): The Speedened's Blueshift ability to move faster improves even further, allowing them to reduce every action by up to three stages. The third stage of reduction is a supernatural ability.

Precognition: A Speedened of 15th level gains a limited grasp of the immediate future, allowing them to optimize their movements' efficiency as well as their speed. A 15th-level Speedened may make three Swift or Immediate actions per round.


Speedened Spells:
0th level: Acid Splash, Cure Minor Wounds, Daze, Detect Magic, Ghost Sound, Mage Hand*, Prestidigitation*, Ray Of Frost
1st level: Color Spray, Command, Entangle, Grease, Magic Missile*, Obscuring Mist, Produce Flame, Sanctuary*, Shield*, Sleep, Summon Monster I
2nd level: Fog Cloud, Gust Of Wind*, Hold Person, Invisibility, Mirror Image*, Protection From Arrows, Pyrotechnics, Resist Energy, Scorching Ray*, Silence, Suggestion*, Web
3rd level: Blink, Daylight, Dispel Magic*, Fireball, Gaseous Form, Invisibility Purge*, Major Image*, Protection From Energy, Sleet Storm, Spike Growth, Stone Shape, Wind Wall
4th level: Black Tentacles, Charm Monster, Dimension Door*, Dimensional Anchor, Dominate Person, Greater Dispel Magic, Rainbow Pattern*, Resilient Sphere*, Solid Fog, Wall Of Fire, Wall Of Ice
5th level: Control Winds*, Dismissal, Feeblemind, Greater Command, Mislead, Persistent Image, Telekinesis*, Teleport, Transmute Mud To Rock, Transmute Rock To Mud, True Seeing*, Wall Of Force, Wall Of Stone


*: When cast by a Speedened, this spell is treated as if one step of Blueshift has already been applied to it





Design notes

Intended purpose: pissing off melee characters, interrupting spellcasters, wasting other peoples' actions by invalidating the preconditions of their planned next action.
Intended weaknesses: cage matches with pissed off melee characters, good archers, uninterruptible casters with stupidly large AoE spells, and things with really hard passive defenses.

Suggestions for advancement after level 15: classes or feats that grant easy-to-use teleportation abilities would be a massive power boost to a Speedened. The ability to Teleport or Dimension Door out of the way of incoming spells at will, for example, would be extremely useful. The same goes for abilities that allow the user to interrupt actions other than spellcasting, such as improved tripping, grappling, mind control, or knockdowns.

Current problems: No playtesting.

Changelog:
[edit] Changed class name to Speedened and Quicken ability to Blueshift to avoid confusion.[/edit]
[edit] Tableified, missed a few instances of the class name. [/edit]
[edit] "Speedened" is a placeholder. I'm trying to think of a better name, but one isn't coming to me. Also clarified move action versus standard movement. [/edit]
[edit] No more trying to break blueshifted spellcasting. Deleted "modifications for tomes" section. Blueshift now usable for movements. Fixed formatting in spell list. [/edit]
[edit] Specified exactly when slide distance recharges [/edit]
[edit] Added Speed Tricks and boosted slide movement. Clarified Slide vs. Ranged Attacks (LoS negates, otherwise no). [/edit]
[edit] Changed title to [Tome]. This isn't really balanced under standard 3.x character options any more. [/edit]
[edit] Edited "How to play a" entry. [/edit]
[edit] Decreased "faster" option to flat bonus. [/edit]
[edit] Did some more editing on the speed tricks, moved You Move Like They Do and Whoa out into class features. [edit]
[edit] Converted to classbuilder. Turned a few class abilities into speed tricks and added a bunch more, tweaked basically all of them. Moved everything around. [/edit]
[edit] Updated to be closer to the Wiki version for demonstration purposes. [/edit]
Last edited by Vebyast on Sat Dec 11, 2010 7:31 pm, edited 15 times in total.
Red_Rob
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Post by Red_Rob »

Quickened already means something, particularly relating to spells. This will get confusing.

At level 8 this class can cast 3 spells per round. Is that intentional?

At level 9 the character is never flat footed, so can cast Quickened spells (not spells from the Quickened list but spells with the Quicken Metamagic applied, see i told you this would get annoying) such as a level 0 Daze before the first turn in any combat. This could be annoying.

The Tome Feat Blitz gives Full Attacks as a standard action at level 16. This class gives it at 4. Not saying this is broken but its something to think about.

I like the Slide ability, it seems fun and flavourful, but the "FASTER THAN IMMEDIATE!" thing looks like it could cause problems. What if 2 characters want to use it at the same time? D&D's timing rules just don't seem robust enough for this kind of ability.
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Post by TarkisFlux »

I don't actually care about a full attack action as a standard action at level 4, since you only get one attack anyway (unless you're a TWF Speedened (which is what I will now call this class to avoid term confusion).

The whole Blue Shift ability (which is what I will be calling the Quicken ability to avoid term confusion) seems a lot crazy though. While I'm not really worried about the top end drops, the low end drops are worrisome for action economy reasons. I think if you could only blue shift an action type once per round (like you can only speed up one spell casting per round, even if you cast another right afterwards, but you could also blue shift a full attack to use up your standard action) you might be ok. It allows you to use your existing actions for other things and get a lot more things of in a round, but it doesn't allow you to cast swift, move, and standard action spells in a round unless 1 was already a standard and 1 was a swift (or whatever). I think at that point you could even allow them to blue shift a move, since they'd only be able to add a single move action with the ability (as a swift or whatever).
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Vebyast
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Post by Vebyast »

[quote="TarkisFlux]Speedened (which is what I will now call this class to avoid term confusion).[/quote]
Red_Rob wrote:Quickened already means something, particularly relating to spells. This will get confusing.
Yeah, I was worrying about that, but I couldn't think of a better word that didn't already mean something. I think I'll take TarkisFlux's idea, since that's better than anything I'd come up with.
Red_Rob wrote:At level 9 the character is never flat footed, so can cast Quickened spells (not spells from the Quickened list but spells with the Quicken Metamagic applied, see i told you this would get annoying) such as a level 0 Daze before the first turn in any combat. This could be annoying.
Blueshift only applies to spells from the Speedened spell list, and the Speedened casts like a bard. They don't even get fourth-level spells until tenth level, and their list only goes up to sixth maximum (which you don't get until 16th level).

Also, that's intentional. It would be annoying, but the entire point of this character is to be annoying. His intended defense against fighters, for example, is to wait for them to move into attack range then to Slide out of reach before they attack. His intended role in ambushes is to throw off the ambushers long enough for the party to survive the initial assault.
Red_Rob wrote:The Tome Feat Blitz gives Full Attacks as a standard action at level 16. This class gives it at 4. Not saying this is broken but its something to think about.
Yes. If we're doing Tome comparisons, though, the Speedened is up against things like Whirlwind, which gives a standard attack against everything in reach at first level, which at sixth level improves to everything you can reach at any point along your movement.

Speaking of that, would it be a good idea to add language so that you can't Blueshift things that include subactions (like Whirlwind, for example, which is a full-round action composed of a move action and a series of standard attacks)?
Red_Rob wrote:I like the Slide ability, it seems fun and flavourful, but the "FASTER THAN IMMEDIATE!" thing looks like it could cause problems. What if 2 characters want to use it at the same time? D&D's timing rules just don't seem robust enough for this kind of ability.
The problem is that D&D's timing rules also aren't robust enough to give Slide the kind of power it needs. If it's an immediate action, then that's budgeted. If it's just a free action, it can't be used to do the kind of things it's indended for (dodge out of a Fireball after it's targeted but before it goes off, for example).

Two Speeded dueling is weird. Basically, they keep Sliding around, trying to get an advantage over the other, until one of them has an advantage that the other can't Slide out of. Like instantaneous chess. The problem is to determine who gets to make the first Slide. Giving it to the players is a simple solution (whoever speaks up first wins), but that's not very good. My initial solution is to make it opposed reflex rolls, but I'm not sure if having players roll dice for every single Slide they want to make (because they will invariably always want to slide simultaneously) is a good idea.
Red_Rob wrote:At level 8 this class can cast 3 spells per round. Is that intentional?
[quote="TarkisFlux]The whole Blue Shift ability (which is what I will be calling the Quicken ability to avoid term confusion) seems a lot crazy though. While I'm not really worried about the top end drops, the low end drops are worrisome for action economy reasons. I think if you could only blue shift an action type once per round (like you can only speed up one spell casting per round, even if you cast another right afterwards, but you could also blue shift a full attack to use up your standard action) you might be ok. It allows you to use your existing actions for other things and get a lot more things of in a round, but it doesn't allow you to cast swift, move, and standard action spells in a round unless 1 was already a standard and 1 was a swift (or whatever). I think at that point you could even allow them to blue shift a move, since they'd only be able to add a single move action with the ability (as a swift or whatever).[/quote]

Yes, being able to multicast is intentional. However, remember that this guy uses Bard casting progression. Assuming 18 INT, at 4th level you have 3,3,1 (0th,1st,2nd) level spells, so casting two spells in one round is half of your nontrivial allocation. At 8th, those three spells are almost a third of your spells/day overall. Plus, those spells are lower-level than you would normally have. In other words: yes, this character can enter a nova mode like no other, but it's still nova mode, and this character doesn't have very much spellcasting endurance in the first place.
Ravyn Dawnbringer
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Post by Ravyn Dawnbringer »

So, right away the slide ability pops out at me. Since as a speedened I can do this at any time i'm going to be doing at every time. Readied action shift in case of suprise round, hell, use me as the monkey in the barrel, i'll just shift out of the way of anything if I ever get suprised. Enemies attack in melee? I'll just shift any time they take an action against me. AoEs? Shift.

That said, the rest of the class looks awesome, and i've always loved OBJECTION! abilities, but that one looks a little over the top. If I'm laughably and provably wrong, shoot me down with logic lazors, but that's my opinion
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Vebyast
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Post by Vebyast »

Ravyn Dawnbringer wrote:So, right away the slide ability pops out at me. Since as a speedened I can do this at any time i'm going to be doing at every time. Readied action shift in case of suprise round, hell, use me as the monkey in the barrel, i'll just shift out of the way of anything if I ever get suprised. Enemies attack in melee? I'll just shift any time they take an action against me. AoEs? Shift.
Yes, that ability is a little on the powerful side. However, it's one of literally two tricks this character gets. His spellcasting isn't very good compared even to vanilla bard, he doesn't have full BAB, he's extremely squishy (arcane spell failure and d6 hit dice), and, most importantly, he doesn't have any damage boosts or at-will SoD. Basically his trick is to stay alive long enough to poke something to death, and his way to do that is to slide away from attacks.

Also, he's far more vulnerable to AoEs than he looks. Remember, he can only shift about twenty or thirty feet per round. A single Fireball or Entangle will deplete most of his slide budget.
Last edited by Vebyast on Fri Mar 26, 2010 5:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
Ravyn Dawnbringer
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Post by Ravyn Dawnbringer »

But his slide budget is "at any time"

If this ability were to be made not immediately game breaking, he can't be able to say "the enemy draws breath? I shift. Starts casting? I shift. Fireball is thirty feet away? I shift. Twenty five feet away? I shift. And so on.

Perhaps make it reworded to "The speedened may use his shift ability whenever an enemy takes an action of any kind, but must be taken before or after the action, and not both. A specific action must be identified before this ability will function."

That way, he still gets to dodge any attacks a non-archer, non-wizard throws at him, and he isn't omnipresent.
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Vebyast
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Post by Vebyast »

Remember, a Speedened can't dodge things that target them except by breaking line of effect. If you slide ten feet to the left, I just point my arrow at you again before I fire. You can slide after I declare you my target, and you can slide again after I roll to hit, but I still got to roll to hit, and if I hit I get to roll damage. So, yes, Speedened are more or less impervious to melee attacks. In return, their tiny hit dice and lack of armor make them incredibly vulnerable to single-target ranged attacks. To a Speedened, Scorching Ray is instant death most of the time. In the same way, a well-built ranger can absolutely destroy a Speedened.

Also, slide isn't quite as useful against spells as it seems. By the time it becomes large enough to shift you out of more powerful AoE spells, casters have stopped using those spells in favor of single-target SoDs, which you can't dodge.

As a final consideration, Speedened have a minuscule damage output. Rogues get sneak attack. Casters get spells. Fighters throw swords at people. Speedened, on the other hand, repeatedly poke people in the foot. It's enough to break a caster's concentration, but it's useless for actually killing things.


Also, part of the point is that he is almost omnipresent, and the class is built specifically so that omnipresent != omnipotent.
Last edited by Vebyast on Sat Mar 27, 2010 7:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Ravyn Dawnbringer
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Post by Ravyn Dawnbringer »

Alright, thanks for the clarification. It looked to me like he could do it whenever, which I figured meant combat became the speedened moving, punctuated by failed attacks. But if there is a hard limit, it makes waaaay more sense.

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Post by TarkisFlux »

I'd just like to say that I support Blue Shift as an ability name, but speedened as a class name was liberally from my ass without any quality checking. And I'm not particularly fond of it. If you like it that's cool, cause it's you class and all, but I think you should search for a better class name personally. Even something like Follower of Yaketu (which actually doesn't mean anything as far as I know) would probably be a better name. You don't need to go with anything suggestive is my point.

Also, I missed that they have 2/3 casting progression somehow, so I concede the super multicasting point (cause, yeah, big deal). Just a design intent question now: how come you're restricting blue shift from move actions though, since they could only use it to get another move action anyway?
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Vebyast
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Post by Vebyast »

TarkisFlux wrote:I'd just like to say that I support Blue Shift as an ability name, but speedened as a class name was liberally from my ass without any quality checking. And I'm not particularly fond of it.
I'm really, really uncreative when it comes to proper nouns. Probably as a side effect of being a computer science person. Speedened is as much a placeholder as Quickened was, except that it doesn't cause any confusion.
TarkisFlux wrote:Just a design intent question now: how come you're restricting blue shift from move actions though, since they could only use it to get another move action anyway?
Note: "An action that fits into a move action" is distinct from "a standard move, which moves a character their speed". To avoid confusion I use "move action" to refer to the former, and I use "movement action" or "standard move" to refer to the latter. The Speedened can make a standard attack using a move action, or can stand from prone using a swift action, but they cannot make a standard move using a swift action.

On to the actual question: Blue Shift doesn't work very well out of combat. That's also why I cap it at ten-minute actions and why I disallow Blueshifting movements.

As an illustration: starting at Blueshift 2, it would let a Speedened effectively make a 3x run action (at full agility, no less) in the same time that another character could make a standard movement. That's only a little overpowered in tactical combat, but outside of combat, it lets your character "run" all day without getting fatigued and while carrying a full load. It would let your character drag the entire party on a sledge as fast as they could hustle, with the bonus that they'd be able to use the sledge-mounted ballistae (plural) if you got attacked.
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Post by Rejakor »

I kind of like Speedened. At first I didn't, but it grew on me. It indicates that the speed has been placed/forced on someone, which is a weird but ultimately compelling idea.

Sledge mounted ballistae - > Less powerful than triple casting. Which isn't really that powerful in the first place with that spell list.

Being able to run away really well is something I just don't care about enough to stop something having. Also, the idea of super speedy messengers isn't really overpowered in a game with teleport.


The idea of spells as immediate actions is vaguely terrifying, but since it's this class' entire schtick and their spells aren't save or lose until beyond-I-care level.

But I still wouldn't make it any 'better' to be a Tome class. This is a Tome class, right here. Also, it benefits greatly from extra slots from memento magica, and with certain runestaves it would be very broken (bwahahahaha immediate action acid fog, black tentacles, and disintegrate).
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Post by Rejakor »

I kind of like Speedened. At first I didn't, but it grew on me. It indicates that the speed has been placed/forced on someone, which is a weird but ultimately compelling idea.

Sledge mounted ballistae - > Less powerful than triple casting. Which isn't really that powerful in the first place with that spell list.

Being able to run away really well is something I just don't care about enough to stop something having. Also, the idea of super speedy messengers isn't really overpowered in a game with teleport.


The idea of spells as immediate actions is vaguely terrifying, but since it's this class' entire schtick and their spells aren't save or lose until beyond-I-care level.

But I still wouldn't make it any 'better' to be a Tome class. This is a Tome class, right here. Also, it benefits greatly from extra slots from memento magica, and with certain runestaves it would be very broken (bwahahahaha immediate action acid fog, black tentacles, and disintegrate).
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Post by Vebyast »

Rejakor wrote:Being able to run away really well is something I just don't care about enough to stop something having. Also, the idea of super speedy messengers isn't really overpowered in a game with teleport.
Also true. After reading around this place a little more, my group was apparently missing the splatbook that gives every character infinite teleports at $level, and I'm still not used to this wish economy you guys have figured out. I'll take a look at removing that restriction.
Rejakor wrote:But I still wouldn't make it any 'better' to be a Tome class. This is a Tome class, right here.
Yeah, that seems to be the case. Upon comparing it to more stuff, it appears that I chose the wrong class to compare it to. Is it just me, or is the Soldier is rather powerful, even for Tome?
Rejakor wrote:Also, it benefits greatly from extra slots from memento magica, and with certain runestaves it would be very broken (bwahahahaha immediate action acid fog, black tentacles, and disintegrate).
Memento Magica, yes, totally. Runestaves (at least as described here) are completely useless to Speedened. Speedened can cast spontaneously off their entire list, runestaves only work on spells already on your spell list ("must have the spell on her spell list and be of sufficient level to cast it"), and casting a spell out of a runestaff still eats a spell slot.
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Post by ubernoob »

You can UMD runestaffs to pretend to be another class,
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Post by Rejakor »

But that is cheesy so we're not going to do it.
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Post by Vebyast »

ubernoob wrote:You can UMD runestaffs to pretend to be another class,
Right, the Tomes make class and cross-class skills essentially meaningless.

Even so, it's an interesting question. Does the wording of Blueshift ("This ability does not apply to spellcasting not gained as part of the Speedened class, nor does it apply to spell-like abilities.") apply to runstaffs that have been UMD'd?

Are there any rulings about whether the runestaff actually gives you a spell to cast using your spell slots, or does it take one of your spell slots to cast its own spell?
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Post by ubernoob »

Rejakor wrote:But that is cheesy so we're not going to do it.
Simply add "And no, you can't UMD a runestaff or any other shit to expand your spell list for WTFBBQ game breaking effect. The spell list is what it is. If you try to expand it , your DM is well within his rights to slap you in the face."
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Post by Vebyast »

ubernoob wrote:Simply add "And no, you can't UMD a runestaff or any other shit to expand your spell list for WTFBBQ game breaking effect. The spell list is what it is. If you try to expand it , your DM is well within his rights to slap you in the face."
I approve of this idea.

Also, deleted "non-movement" from Blueshift. Deleted "suggested modifications for tome games" section from the design notes, since it looks like this is already a Tome class.
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Post by Rejakor »

"..with his appendage of choice."
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Post by Rejakor »

If you're reaaaaallllyyy stuck for a class name, you could rename it 'Attorney At Law' and rename Blueshift to 'Objection', and Slide to 'Stop Right There!'.
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Post by TarkisFlux »

Vebyast wrote:Right, the Tomes make class and cross-class skills essentially meaningless.
Not quite. They make paying for cross class skills not an exercise in stupidity, but cross class caps are still in place. It still takes just as long to get a cross-class UMD up to worthwhile levels (barring item bonuses), it just doesn't cost as much character resources.

And to your movement thing, yeah, I support the removal of that limitation for all the reasons that people here beat me to. If you wanted to limit it for non-tome games though, there's fairly general ways you could tie it down. Tying it to the running and fatigue rules looks like an obvious place to me, and you could add something along the lines of: "Using blue shift is tiring. Any round that you fit more that a refular full-round action into with the use of blue shift is treated the same as if you had taken a run action, with all of its associated limits. This happens anytime you take a standard, move, and swift or immediate action that have all been blue shifted, since the same actions would have normally taken at least two full-round actions." Or something like that anyway, assuming you could figure out a way to make it scale nicely with the better blue shifts.
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Post by Rejakor »

"While using Blueshift to run long distances, you take nonlethal damage or must rest based on your distance travelled not on the time spent running or hustling.

Example: A 10th level Speedened, Erik, uses his Blueshift to convert the Run action into a move action, allowing him to Run twice per round, and move up to 8 times his land speed in a single turn (2 x 4 x land speed). Erik has a Con of 9 or higher, so he would normally need to rest after 1 minute of running, or having moved 40 times his land speed, total. However, since his Blueshift ability allows him to move 8 times his land speed total per round, thanks to the text of the Blueshift ability, Erik has to stop and rest for 1 minute after travelling for only 5 rounds - 30 seconds."

I just realized a problem with this approach. Erik can use Blueshift to take that one minute rest down to a standard action.

Is this awesome, y/n?
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Post by Vebyast »

Rejakor wrote:If you're reaaaaallllyyy stuck for a class name, you could rename it 'Attorney At Law' and rename Blueshift to 'Objection', and Slide to 'Stop Right There!'.
It's certainly lolworthy.
TarkisFlux wrote:"Using blue shift is tiring. Any round that you fit more that a refular full-round action into with the use of blue shift is treated the same as if you had taken a run action, with all of its associated limits. This happens anytime you take a standard, move, and swift or immediate action that have all been blue shifted, since the same actions would have normally taken at least two full-round actions."
I like this idea. However, if it's too restrictive, the Speedened ends up with a rather nasty case of multiple attribute dependency. Con so that he can use his schtick, Int so that he can cast, and one of either Dex or Strength so that he can poke things.

One way to make it less annoying: it only kicks in if the Speedened uses the power to its maximum during that turn. This is going to kind of difficult to find words to express.

At 10th level a Speedened can theoretically apply up to six steps to blueshift across all of his actions: he has one standard, one move, and one swift or immediate action, and he can use each action to do something that's been blueshifted twice. That would be a 1-minute, a full, and a standard down to a standard, a move, for a total of six steps. If he does a full, a full, and a standard, reduced into a standard, a move, and a swift, that would be five steps, because one of the fulls was only turned into a standard.

So, at 4th level, you can theoretically make up to three blueshift reductions per round. This improves to six at 8th, nine at 12th, and fifteen at 15th. An attractive option would be to add a "Free Blueshifts/round" stat, which you can go over at the expense of getting tired. An easier option would be to make it (maximum - 1), but this might hit low-level characters too hard and high-level characters not hard enough.
Last edited by Vebyast on Tue Mar 30, 2010 11:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by ubernoob »

Alternatively, you could just hand out increased actions and have a couple of abilities for immediate actions.

Say, get an extra standard action per round at fourth level, twelfth level, and twentieth along with an extra immediate action at eighth and sixteenth. The only action shortening ability you would give would be the ability to take a standard action as an immediate action (maybe at level 8).

With this scenario, a twelfth level speedened gets three standards, two immediate actions (which can become standards), and a move action. This means they could full attack three times or full attack once and cast four spells. Compare that with your current setup which allows a speedened to do more than that (blue shift a full round spell to a swift, blue shift a minute spell into a move, and blue shift a 10 minute spell into a standard).

Really, the whole idea of converting big actions into smaller actions across the board is ten kinds of retarded. If it is appropriate to allow the class to full attack as an immediate action twice per round, just give them that and don't do this generic action shortening because it's guaranteed to cause all kinds of havoc when shit like Blitz and Whirlwind come into play.
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