[Tome of Tiamat] The Lizardfolk

Surgo · Post by **Surgo** » Wed Jul 15, 2009 5:30 am

This is something I wrote a while ago: a lizardfolk that people would actually want to play. I personally think that the concept of a lizard man is totally sweet and it should be something that D&D allows you to play. It's vaguely related to dragons, so I guess Tome of Tiamat is the right place for it. Truth told it probably goes better in Races of War but that ship has already sailed.

PhpBB formatting is ass to figure out, so I'll just link to an already well-formatted page that has the Lizardfolk on it: http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Lizardfolk ... 3.5e_Race)

Apparently PhpBB has problems with putting urls like those found on wikis into links, so I left it un-linked and you'll have to copy and paste. Sorry.

My only worry is that Monstrous is a bit too much and should not allow you to qualify for [Fiend] feats. Other than that, I think it's perfectly balanced.

CatharzGodfoot · Post by **CatharzGodfoot** » Wed Jul 15, 2009 6:08 am

I actually used a very similar setup for serpent people (which were bipedal and had two arms, so 'lizard people' might have been equally apt). They had come into conflict with the kuo toa in pre-human times (rather than saughin, which didn't exist in that game). Serpent people are good swimmers. Not as good as the fish people--but they are much better on land. This made for vicious low-key war over coastal regions. The kuo toa eventually did a big ritual and shattered the serpent people's civilization (sinking it below the waves).

The kuo toa then allied with various groups of coast-dwelling humans, and offered them knowledge in exchange for keeping the serpent people down. In some places, this relationship has persisted to the 'present' (for example, Freeport).

I think that shattered empire/ancient enemies makes for a great scaly emu background.

Anyway, while I'm not big on the 'scaly dragon ogre' aesthetic, I think that the flavor is great. And yeah, I allowed them to take fiendish feats.

Making them an LA 0 race, I'd probably wouldn't give them the aquatic subtype. These aren't 'newt people'; they shouldn't have water breathing. A swim speed of 40' is great for a land dweller without stepping on fishy toes. It might be good to drop the claw attacks, but that's a minor issue.

Finally, the given height and weight is really hilarious when combine with the picture. He (she?) is really only 5'4" and 160 lbs.

Surgo · Post by **Surgo** » Wed Jul 15, 2009 6:18 am

While something like Hold Breath probably makes more sense than Aquatic, it's also pretty useless whereas maybe Aquatic could actually be useful in some random game. 40' swim speed seems okay I suppose. I really do want it to work as well for serpent people as it does for lizard people -- I don't see why the two should be mechanically different. That picture really is unfortunate.

The height is a multiplier, not an adder, but that makes them way too heavy now that I think about it. I'm not too big of a fan of the picture, but I wasn't the one who added it. If somebody has a better picture, go ahead and put it up there. Please.

Koumei · Post by **Koumei** » Wed Jul 15, 2009 6:39 am

I definitely like it, even though "swamp" says "cold" to me, and lizards enjoy lying out in the warm sunlight. But maybe it's just that the local swamplands are frigging cold, whereas America has hot, tropical swamps or something. I don't know. I need to travel more.

I like the fact that they can take [Fiend] feats: this means they can develop venom for their bites (see: the Gila Monster and one other lizard), disease bites (see: the Komodo Dragon) and grow large/huge like a Kroxigor if they so wish.

Maybe it'd be cool to offer them a paragon class that grants a tail slap (and the option to drop the tail and have it run away/continue fighting), fast healing, Fire Resistance/immunity to extreme heat effects and natural armour?

Anyway, I like.

Surgo · Post by **Surgo** » Wed Jul 15, 2009 6:42 am

The paragon class is an excellent idea, and I will get right on it.

You are also correct about American swamps; they and marshes are hot, sticky places over here.

SunTzuWarmaster · Post by **SunTzuWarmaster** » Sun Jul 19, 2009 5:07 pm

I live in a swamp (ALL of Florida). When you think of swamps, you probably think of:
1 - lots of water (marsh?), but no ice
2 - lots of brown/green plants with big leaves and stubby root systems
3 - few large animals (fish is probably largest, followed by some sort of reptile, followed by an abundance of bird and tree life), with nearly none of them being ground based (no tigers, buffalo, deer, or anything else that runs around)
4 - an abundance of smaller game (rabbits, small deer, number types of birds and fish, tree-born mammals, a healthy number of frog/toad/snake species, and other rodents)
5 - steam/gas/vapor (swamps are usually foggy or have swamp gas like in Viriginia)

Think about it, these are typical of a warmer climate. Yes, reptiles can live in colder climates, but you see significantly more of them the warmer it gets. When you think of colder climates, you usually think of animals which have thick fur rather than webbed feet.

Anywho, I would venture to say that most swamps are warmer, if for no other reason than that I can't mentally picture any swamp that has ice.

Prak · Post by **Prak** » Sun Jul 19, 2009 10:42 pm

with the way the height/weight chart is written, it means the average male lizardfolk(5'2", 240 lbs.) is one inch taller than my petite ex-girlfriend (5'1"), and near my fatass weight(300 lbs.). This is... a tall dwarf.

If I understand the "multiplier not addition" thing correctly, then it means the average male lizardfolk is 60' tall, and 240 lbs.
....
Obviously I'm not understanding this correctly...

oh, about the [aquatic] thing, why not make some manner of feat or background that gives it? That way we don't automatically have water breathing snake people...

Surgo · Post by **Surgo** » Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:38 am

No, you're understanding everything correctly -- it means I screwed up the tables.

I don't see what's wrong with having them be aquatic by default, but might as well have a few "Lizardfolk backgrounds" with different options, like those backgrounds in RoW. I'm just a bit confused what other backgrounds could be made. Ideas?

Maxus · Post by **Maxus** » Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:59 am

Proud warrior heritage (weapons and Natural armor, maybe?)

Aesthetic tradition (caster bonuses of some sort)

Some variation of "Raised by Owlbears"--very outdoors-focused. Maybe they can use Scent to *always* find food and get some other stuff. And then get something useful (isn't that sad? Being able to reliably find food in a game whose settings include huge tracts of primal wilderness isn't actually useful...)

Surgo · Post by **Surgo** » Mon Jul 20, 2009 3:03 am

Being aquatic isn't -that- useful, really. So goodies should be in line with that (not numeric bonuses).

Maxus · Post by **Maxus** » Mon Jul 20, 2009 3:21 am

I was thinking about how the backgrounds usually provide some kind of proficiencies and some free class skills or something. Maybe a bonus to knowledge checks or spellcraft or something.

Maybe the warriors are familiar with some kind of cultural weapon and get bonuses with them.

CatharzGodfoot · Post by **CatharzGodfoot** » Mon Jul 20, 2009 4:28 am

Although this is cute, it isn't what I think when I see "lizard man".

For backgrounds, I can think of 'swamp dweller' (Knowledge (nature) and Survival, proficiency with the spear, immunity to one poison), 'ruin dweller' (Search, starts with a minor magic item), and 'enclave dweller' (Knowledge (history, arcana, dungeoneering), speaks ancient Lizardperson). Obviously those are really rough outlines.

Username17 · Post by **Username17** » Mon Jul 20, 2009 4:46 am

I don't think that the D&D racial "system" such as it is would benefit from making the aquatic gatoresque lizardfolk be the same thing as the desert nomadic gila monstrous lizard people be the same as the arborial snake men be the same as the tunnel dwelling yuan ti. This is D&D, and hobgoblins are a different species from orcs and it would be as jarring to have everything that happens to be a reptile coellected into one pile as it would be to have all the mammals collected into a single man shaped race.

D&D is deep into the forehead alien gestalt, and attempting to shoehorn in broad species into it at this point would be bizarre beyond belief. Especially considering that even before we get into the palette swap lizardfolk like the "Blackscales" and the "lizardkings" there are already an awful lot of scaly forehead aliens that are quite canonical.

Kobolds: tiny, dragon dog men. Shifty tinkerers with tactical knowhow who are trapped in a forever war in the tunnels against the gnomes.
Ophidians: creepy tree dwelling snake people with long tails and sinuous bodies.
Yuan-Ti: human snake monster hybrids that live deep underground or alternately live amongst humanity as cthulhuesque cultists.
Lizardfolk: semi-aquatic swamp, bayou, or coastal dwelling barbarians.
Troglodytes: stone age foul smelling cannibals who hate the world and are hated in return from their deep cavernous lairs.
Dragon Born: Who the fuck knows? This group of reptimen has had their reason for existence changed
Sarkrith: the lizard monster men with crystal tech from Land of the Lost.
Khaasta: wandering nomadic lizard berserkers.

And that's even before we get deep into dragon kin or "frog people" like the bullywugs or "fish people" like Kuo-Toa. Those things are all there, and they have some stuff that they do. There's just no reason to try to make a catch all category for D&D reptillians because the Sleestak Sarkrith are not actually going to go away if you do that.

And yeah, I think it would be good to untangle the lizard guys and put them all up side by side with most or all of them given playable rules and paragon classes. But don't give the "lizardfolk" a non-aquatic variant - there are other non-aquatic reptile people to fill the non-aquatic shoes.

-Username17

Koumei · Post by **Koumei** » Mon Jul 20, 2009 5:12 am

You forgot the lizardy Creator Race :p

Username17 · Post by **Username17** » Mon Jul 20, 2009 5:46 am

I did forget the Sarrukh.

-Username17

Koumei · Post by **Koumei** » Mon Jul 20, 2009 6:06 am

Ah, I see, so it was no accident you forgot them and the world would be better without them.

Or at least, without a certain badly worded ability that has lead to many a shitstorm.

Midnight_v · Post by **Midnight_v** » Mon Nov 09, 2009 6:13 pm

I'd like to work on this... anyone interested?

I find that yuan-ti are off limits as far as the srd Ogl is concerened but I find them the most compatible with the Tome System.

These dudes:
Yuan-Ti: human snake monster hybrids that live deep underground or alternately live amongst humanity as cthulhuesque cultists.

Are easy to do because there are half-blood pure bloods and most importantly Wotc CAN'T sue. Because frankly the "Snake people living amonst us" is iconic from "V" to Robert E.Howards :Kull, to that crappy cartoon with Conan using star metal to kill the evil serpent men. Not to mention Thulsa Doom.

So as s shot in the dark... You know that fluff from the tieflings in 4th and the dragonborn in 3rd? Something between there.

Long ago there was this race of human likes getting hosed, or alternatively who rose to power over their peers in a drow city like scenario: who make a deal with the Anceint Obyrith/Snake God, for power in exchange for Sacrifices/servitude/mingling (oohhh snake girl sex) and "Set" or whoever gets a foot hold in our world.

So humans. Instead of A bonus feat and skills. These assholes get The "Snake Spere" at first level. This may not be ehanced to advanced or expert, until at least character level 6.

Course We'd need to write the snake sphere and I'm a way from book.

Edit: Damn I can't walk away. . .
Snake Sphere: You gain a defromity chosen from the following list or the physical traits fiend list: Scales instead of Hair in "pubic" regions, Snake eyes, Fangs (non funtional for bite attacks), forked tongue.
1: Summon swarm: Snakes "use stats for spider swarm
3.
5.
7.
9.

koz · Post by **koz** » Mon Nov 09, 2009 7:44 pm

Snake

Benefit: You are immune to the poison of snakes.

1: Spider Climb
3: Poison
5: Water Breathing
7: Freedom of Movement
9: Word of Blinding*
11: Mass Charm Monster
13: Word of Catatonia*
15: Symbol of Insanity
17: Phantasmagorical Image*
19: Demise Unseen*

Demise Unseen
Necromancy [Death, Image]
Level: 9
Class: Druid, Cleric
Sphere: Snake
Components: V, S
Casting time: 1 standard action
Range: Long
Target: One creature
Duration: Instantaneous
Save: Fort negates
SR: Yes

The character instantly slays a single target and at the same moment animates the body, so that it appears like nothing has happened to the creature. The target's companions (if any) do not immediately realise what has happened. The target receives a Fort save to survive the attack. If the save fails, the target remains at its exact position with no apparent ill effects. In reality, it is now under the character's control and has its race changed to ghoul (as per the Tome template). The target's companions may attempt Will disbelief saves to recognise what has transpired as per the usual rules for [Image] effects. The character cannot exceed the normal limit for controlling undead through use of this spell, but other means that allow the character to exceed the normal limit for controlled undead work just as well with undead created with demise unseen.

Phantasmagorical Image
Illusion [Image, Mind-Affecting]
Level: 9
Class: Bard, Sorcerer/Wizard
Sphere: Illusion, Snake
Components: V, S
Casting time: 1 standard action
Range: Long
Area: 100ft radius cylinder
Duration: 1 hour/level (D) and 1 round/level (see text)
Save: Will disbelief and None (see text)

This spell functions like persistent image, except as described above. Additionally, the spell is extremely hostile to those who would disbelieve it. Anyone who successfully disbelieves an illusion created by this spell becomes insane, as per the insanity spell, for 1 round per caster level.

Word of Blinding
Illusion [Mind-Affecting]
Level: 5
Class: Sor/Wiz
Sphere: Snake
Components: V
Casting time: 1 standard action
Range: Close
Target: One creature
Duration: See text
Save: None
SR: Yes

You cause a single creature become blind, whether it can hear the Word or not. If the creature's CR is 2 points or more below your caster level, the duration is permanent; if its CR is equal to your caster level or 1 point lower, 1d4+1 minutes; if its CR is 1 or 2 points higher than your caster level, 1d4+1 rounds. Creatures whose CR is more than 2 points above your caster level are not affected.

Word of Catatonia
Illusion [Mind-Affecting, Phantasm]
Level: 7
Class: Bard, Sorcerer/Wizard
Sphere: Snake
Components: V
Casting time: 1 standard action
Range: Close
Target: One creature or one or more creatures within a 15ft radius sphere
Duration: Instantaneous
Save: None
SR: Yes

You can use this spell in one of two ways; either focusing the effects of the Word on one target, or distributing it over several. Regardless of which option is chosen, the effects take place whether the target or targets can hear the Word or not.

Single-Target

You cause a single creature to lose sensory contact with the outside world. The subject’s senses are all completely fabricated from within its own mind, though it may not realize this. In reality, the subject sprawls limply, drooling and mewling, and eventually dies of thirst and starvation without care. The subject lives within its own made-up world until the time of its actual death. If the creature's CR is greater than your caster level, this spell has no effect.

Multiple-Target

If the Word is used to affect an area, it sends all affected creatures into a shared catatonia (the world is a construct, but within the world, the victims can interact with each other), as per the single-target option above. Any creature with a CR greater than your caster level-3 is not affected.

Removing creatures from the state induced by this Word requires a greater restoration, limited wish, wish or miracle spell.

And, because I reference them a lot...

[Image] and [Phantasm]

Spells with these components alter the senses of those who are subject to them by making them perceive something which is not the case. Whether this is a totally new object or a change, spells with these descriptions carry one of these descriptors.

An [Image] effect creates something which is perceptible by anyone who views (or hears, or smells, etc) the effect and is capable of processing this perception. [Image] effects cannot generate intelligible speech unless the spell description says it can, and any speech they generate must be in a language that the caster speaks, or the result is simply gibberish. Additionally, any effect that you generate must be one that is familiar to you, and will be dependent on your subjective perceptions of it, which may cause it to possess additional mentally-imposed traits or highlighting of traits that a 'natural' object of this type may not (it is in fact this phenomenon that allows others to detect these effects as not genuine upon close scrutiny).

A [Phantasm] effect creates something which is only perceivable to the caster and the intended target or targets. It is a purely sensory effect between the target and the caster, and third parties do not perceive anything where this effect should be. Almost all [Phantasm] effects are also [Mind-Affecting].

Creatures that encounter either of these effects do not usually receive a save to recognise it as illusory (usually a Will disbelief save, which represents the target's senses attempting to make sense of something which makes none) unless they study it carefully or interact with it in some fashion that would yield results that are not typical to the object in question. 'Studying carefully' requires thorough scrutiny, and thus a casual glance, a few seconds of listening or something similar are not sufficient, whereas a thorough search and probing, or detailed listening for at least ten seconds or something similar would allow a save if the target had reason to suspect something. At the same time, most individuals do not expect their senses to lead them wrong, and quite frequently, a wall comprised of fire may actually be a wall of fire, and very few individuals would risk actually checking such a fact. Only highly paranoid, aware or intelligent individuals, or those who understand that they may face illusions should even be allowed to examine such effects to determine their veracity.

A successful save shows that the effect is false, but an outline of the effect remains. A failed save indicates that the individual has completely succumbed to the illusion, and will continue to insist that it is real. Future saves are not allowed. A creature who has disbelieved an [Image] effect can communicate this disbelief to others, granting them a +4 bonus on their saves (assuming they receive them). If other creatures understand that a creature is the subject of a [Phantasm] spell, they can communicate that this is not real to them, allowing them a +4 bonus on their saves. A creature that receives personal, incontrovertible proof that such an effect is not what it seems to be, after the normal save for disbelief (and the circumstances surrounding it), is allowed an additional save. If this is also failed, the individual in question has rationalized it so thoroughly that they insist the effect is real no matter what.

Midnight_v · Post by **Midnight_v** » Mon Nov 09, 2009 10:15 pm

Well... see... easy.
Still I'd like to fix it better. I actually want to include the actuall abilities given to the yuan-ti ,but damnned if ou didn't come up with some interesting effects.

However... It think "You are immune to snake poision" can be done better. It's a simple fix and not "bad" but not perse in tune with "you gain scuplt spell: you may not make cones with this.

Interesting spells though.
Other ideas...
"You can talk to snakes and snake like creatures further all of them start with an initial attitude of friendly and will not attack you unless provoked.
or...
.............................
Something like that.

Snake dudes that can hat can disguise self to to look human, could be in there as well... especially if the human form was just "them" as a human.
finally darkvision or scent and some clean up

koz · Post by **koz** » Mon Nov 09, 2009 11:35 pm

Well, if you wanna do actual yuan-ti abilities, that's a different story. I could write something like that up, and I'll likely edit it in as soon as I have time.