hot hot halflingxgnome and elfxorc axxxtion!

[Lago_AM3P]

So how come halflings and gnomes don't ever have babies? Even if they can't, how come there isn't anything written about halflings hooking up with gnomes?

Even more bafflingly, how come elves and orcs don't have babies? Actually, I can only think of one campaign setting (a cRPG) that had them--Realms of Arkania. They were called Holberkians in there.

[JonSetanta]

I'm working on racial feats when not struggling for new Fey ideas.
They'll be here eventually.
In teh meantime, check out D&D Online game aka DDO. Everything is made of feats, it has its own wiki somewhere listing all of them.
You could slap 6-7 appropriate feats together and call it a gnome-orc.

I'm more concerned about the lack of heterosis in species such as half-elf, half-Celestial, half-Dragon, and half-Fiend. They all suck flumpf balls, half-elf especially.
They should have the advantages of both and fewest weaknesses of both, like Dhampirs.

[Username17]

Actually being able to have children with beings of another race is generally speaking impossible. That's what a "race" means. It means that you can't have children with a being from another race.

The fact that humans and dragons and demons can have children with elves and orcs - that's weird. The fact that elves and orcs can't have children with each other is exactly what you'd expect from the fact that they are different species.

-Username17

[JonSetanta]

Yeah but human + elf = halfelf and human + orc = half-orc.

What about half-elf + half-orc?

1/2 human 1/4 elf 1/4 orc? Or does Gygax flap down to slap the player out of the godly realm of "No you can't do that because I said so."

[Voss]

Nah, Gygax would just be confused why you were talking about breeding and not just killing everything in the dungeon and taking their stuff.

Me, I'd like the half-crap to go away. We aren't breeding donkeys. Not sure how one of Tolkien's dumber ideas got this far out of hand.

[Manxome]

I believe you're still different species even if you can have infertile offspring. Maybe even offspring that can have children with each other but not with members of either of your original species.

Which its one way to explain why you don't have 1/4 elves running around. Shadowbane made a major point of the infertility of its half-elves (Aelfborn), but they've just come into a position to create their own empires, anyway, since no one dies anymore in the Age of Strife, and therefore you can maintain a constant-size population with zero birthrate.

Also, if you're going to get technical, I believe "race" doesn't mean precisely the same thing as "species;" "race" is a smaller taxonomical group.

[JonSetanta]

How about "Breeds"?

I prefer "Bloodlines" when referring to sentient humanoids though. Little familiar differences with just enough variance like blood type, skin color and hair curl to make humans different yet can still have offspring.

[ckafrica]

1191741086[/unixtime]]Actually being able to have children with beings of another race is generally speaking impossible. That's what a "race" means. It means that you can't have children with a being from another race.

The fact that humans and dragons and demons can have children with elves and orcs - that's weird. The fact that elves and orcs can't have children with each other is exactly what you'd expect from the fact that they are different species.

Well except in situations where relatively similar species such as tigers and lions; horses and donkeys; (antelopes and jackrabbits?) have bred successfully. Usually they end up sterile of course but are possible. I remember seeing something where they even thought their might be a human-chimp hybrid out there.

I was writing a campaign where all the races were offshoots of the same species and so could be interbred without difficulty. The idea was to make a set of racial traits and the have the players pick; though I set some as predominant in each race.
I REALLY like customization and player control over what direction his character is headed and what he is. I also hate classic D&D races and racial paradigm and wish it would go away.

[JonSetanta]

Took a while to dig this up.

Idea I had while in one of Prak's threads. He was waiting for more Frank n K stuff (aren't we always?) and we got bored. I had some sudden ideas on racial feats right then n there.

http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.ph ... br][br]Yes, Prakblood. It's funny, see.

[Prak]

1191742088[/unixtime]]Nah, Gygax would just be confused why you were talking about breeding and not just killing everything in the dungeon and taking their stuff. and getting fucked by your DM

fixed.

[Catharz]

Separate species are defined as not naturally breeding with each other, but that's kind of a strange definition.
A big dog may breed with medium-sized dogs, and therefore they're the same species. A medium-sized dog might breed with a little dog, and therefore they're the same species. A big dog will not breed with a little dog, and therefore they're different species.

Therefore, medium sized dogs are of the same species as little and big dogs, but big dogs and little dogs are not of the same species. All dogs are almost identical genetically, and could produce fertile offspring through artificial insemination, but that's not 'natural' and doesn't count.

So you could conceivably have a situation where humans are the same species as half-orcs and halflings, while half-orcs and halflings are not the same species. Most dragons and demons could be considered to not 'naturally' breed with humans, and therefore of a different species.


I think...

[Cielingcat]

Big dogs are genetically compatible with small dogs. The problem is that they're not physically compatible. It doesn't matter whether something will actually breed, only that they're capable of producing viable offspring.

[Koumei]

1191776851[/unixtime]]So you could conceivably have a situation where humans are the same species as half-orcs and halflings, while half-orcs and halflings are not the same species.

I put it to you that orcs will still do their very best to jam it in, so orcs and halflings are the same species, whether the halfling likes it or not.

[Catharz]

1191777073[/unixtime]]Big dogs are genetically compatible with small dogs. The problem is that they're not physically compatible. It doesn't matter whether something will actually breed, only that they're capable of producing viable offspring.

Most textbooks define a species as all the individual organisms of a natural population that generally interbreed at maturity in the wild and whose interbreeding produces fertile offspring, just like cows. Various parts of this definition are there to exclude some unusual or artificial matings:

* Those which occur only in captivity (when the animal's normal mating partners may not be available) or as a result of deliberate human action.
* Animals which may be physically and physiologically capable of mating but do not normally do so in the wild, for whatever reason.
* Animals whose offspring are normally sterile. For example, mules and hinnies have never (so far) produced further offspring when mated with a creature of the same type (a mule with a mule, or a hinny with a hinny).

On an unrelated note, outsider babies probably work best as a 'cursed birth'. If the mortal parent is already pregnant, their child is supernaturally cursed to display fiendish or angelic characteristics. If the (female) mortal isn't already pregnant, they have a 'virgin birth' (clone) with cursed characteristics. If the mortal is male and the fiend has a womb, the outsider carries a cursed clone of the father.
Of course, demonic pairings could just as easily result in chest-bursters.

[Koumei]

Depends on the Outsider. If a Slaad has sex with one person, then someone else gets pregnant with a half-Slaad, regardless of what Chaos means to you.

[Catharz]

1191780431[/unixtime]]Depends on the Outsider. If a Slaad has sex with one person, then someone else gets pregnant with a half-Slaad, regardless of what Chaos means to you.

No, slaadi make chest-bursters.

[Edit]Although that might be red and green slaadi only.[/Edit]

[Koumei]

Oh, that's right. One of them plants a seed that turns you into the other, and the other infects you with a virus that turns you into the first one. Unless you're a caster, in which case either makes you green.

That'd actually make perfect sense to me if the requirement for green was "Get seeded/infected by both", not "be a caster".

[JonSetanta]

Forgot to mention shapeshifting. Does it change genetic code, or just the apparent arrangement of molecules of the body?
While an archdevil or celestial might produce offspring with a mortal, they probably do such a thing while appearing as that mortal's species.
Strange exception to the "species can't breed" rule. Shapeshiting opens too many possibilities to consider.

[Fwib]

Probably game-world-specific.

[RandomCasualty]

1191781721[/unixtime]]Oh, that's right. One of them plants a seed that turns you into the other, and the other infects you with a virus that turns you into the first one. Unless you're a caster, in which case either makes you green.

That'd actually make perfect sense to me if the requirement for green was "Get seeded/infected by both", not "be a caster".

They're creatures of chaos, they're not supposed to make sense.

[JonSetanta]

World-specific, until some random splat details the sexual exploits of Outsider/mortal parings. Then it's canon and anyone to disagree on The Wiz is flamed for 10+ pages.

In such a splat, the splash image would be a red and blue Slaad gangbanging some adventurer.
Probably Jozan.

[Voss]

You could always start with the changeling write-up in Races of Eberron, if you want shapeshifting sexxxy axxxtion. Any combo (appropriately sized) race and gender you want, with a shot at children that are either 'pure' changeling or the other parents race.

Really, with a couple of researched fertility spells and a some good disguise checks, changelings could be the majority race within a couple generations.

[JonSetanta]

1191889141[/unixtime]]
Really, with a couple of researched fertility spells and a some good disguise checks, changelings could be the majority race within a couple generations.

It takes a lot to turn my stomach, but...
Ew.

[Koumei]

1191880044[/unixtime]]
They're creatures of chaos, they're not supposed to make sense.

Oh, I know that, it's just surprising that until that point it *does* make sense.

Ah, remember how crazy-random those guys used to be? All of those near-identical giant frogs had a RANDOM TABLE of traits to roll on!

[Voss]

1191892377[/unixtime]]

1191889141[/unixtime]]
Really, with a couple of researched fertility spells and a some good disguise checks, changelings could be the majority race within a couple generations.

It takes a lot to turn my stomach, but...
Ew.

Are you sure it takes a lot? One race outbreeding the others isn't much.