I hate the RPGA, and I'm an ass.... who needs some assisstan

[Prak]

ok, I just thought of this. I have many problems with the RPGA, most of them involving the highly restrictive rules they've placed on it which makes it seem like a horrible video game, also, greyhawk and Forgotten Realms bore me....


so what I need from you guys is a quick way to break living greyhawk.


any ideas?

[Sma]

Don't play it ?

[Catharz]

Gnome mounted druid? Candle of Invocation?

[Koumei]

Some friends of mine found more entertainment just by playing infuriating concepts, ones that sorted the easily irritate DMs out from the ones who could run with a joke.

On one occasion, the whole group put dresses on (all are male), and played post-op Half-Orc Bards. Strippers, no less. They didn't LARP the stripping, thank Loviatar.

They made their voices extra manly and made frequent use of such phrases as "Touch me like we're in prison".

They also did a superhero themed group once. "Elfman! Half man, half elf!"

We were going to enter with a party consisting of 1/2 orc CN barbarians, all with minimised mental stats, once. The concept was:

"Hur hur, I'm a cleric. I worship the god of strength. I don't heal, sometimes he just makes me really strong and angry."

"Hur hur, I'm a wizard. I can cast Rage." (and "sleep", somatic component: smack in the head with a 2x4)

"Hur hur, I'm a duskblade. I can only stab people in the evening."

etc.

So it won't be mechanically broken, but it'll provide you amusement. Unfortunately, it might do so at the expense of everyone else. I can't really recommend ruining a gaming experience for everyone else there.

Sma has the right idea, too.

[Prak]

yeah, that's what I'm currently doing... hmm... maybe I'll save the "being an ass" for a con when someone who's actually involved with the RPGA runs a game...

[Jacob_Orlove]

Messing up one table of players inconveniences at most, what, six people? If you really want to "break" LG, go post detailed summaries of their adventures online.

[K]

Play a capstone character.

Its a character with a 100% XP penalty. Then you just do adventures at a certain level and keep collecting magic equipment and stuff. Its both kind of insulting and kind of ideal for a long-running character.

[Jacob_Orlove]

1186970249[/unixtime]]Play a capstone character.

Its a character with a 100% XP penalty. Then you just do adventures at a certain level and keep collecting magic equipment and stuff. Its both kind of insulting and kind of ideal for a long-running character.

That's amazing. Seriously. It almost makes me want to play a RPGA game.

Is there a way to get full spellcasting and a 100% XP penalty?

[MrWaeseL]

Well first off, you gotta be a class with a bonus to the stats you want and a favorite class you don't want. I think the vanari from OA have monk or something as their favored class and a bonus to int and wis, so that's an ideal chassis for your character.

[erik]

This year they changed the rules on experience penalties. Capstones used to be acceptable though some groused a bit, and in fact the Verbobonc (indiana/illinois) triad website had an article posted explaining the pros and cons of how to pull it off.

Nowadays, you are capped at a 50% penalty and the penalty goes to both gold and experience.

Full casting and even a 50% experience penalty... I don't see how you can manage that unless you are willing to do something crazy like count Sublime Chord as a "full caster". Only way to get exp penalties is by taking base classes, and there aren't base classes here that let you raise other class caster levels.


On to the main notion of the thread, I can't really advise breaking RPGA/LG as a profitable endeavor. If the notion is to ruin other people's roleplaying experiences, then you're just a dick (even if there is one or even six RPGA overlords at the table). If the notion is to highlight some of the problems in the system, well odds are other people are doing it too, and it will probably get nerfed if it gets out of hand (Master of Many Forms come to mind, likewise Wraith Strike).

One of my first LG characters was intended to highlight what I felt was the brokenness of Spirited Charge. I quickly lost taste for the ability to own everything with one hit since it bored the other players, so I started diversifying the build where my spirited charge is not nearly so deadly and I can do lots more support activities in order to share the fun.


As for 'infuriating concepts', a player I like from Ohio has a barbarian named "Ahnold" who is an obvious imitation of Conan/Arnold that you'd think people would hate, except that playing with him is hilarious and always enjoyable. I hear he has quite the following now and actually is mayor of a town in the Veluna region.

If you are thinking of mechanically breaking the game, well, odds are there are already a hundred or two people doing the exact same approach of whatever you choose. There are really strong characters out there and really weak ones. The really strong ones just walk mods, and the weak ones have to get helped along.

[edit]
Waesel, there is no OA and no Venari in Living Greyhawk. It's pretty much Vanilla D&D wherein mostly all of the material doesn't come from other campaign settings (so no FR, Eberron, or OA stuff).

[MrWaeseL]

Well maybe one wandered over or the race just got discovered or something. Flavor shouldn't be a problem.

[erik]

The only way to get access to non-standard stuff (though there is a huge range of standard open access) is if you are granted access via campaign cards which are randomly mailed out, by completing adventures, or by joining organizations. None of these are likely to ever let you legally play anything from OA in Living Greyhawk. The notion is that the oriental flavor has been deemed incompatible with the setting, and the Circle on down to the Triads are not going to allow any missions or organizations to grant access to them. Maybe this kind of "heavy-handedness" is what has set Prak off, I dunno.

LG in particular is kind of bound to keep things kosher within the setting of Living Greyhawk, and they mustn't piss off WotC too much, which means they often have their hands tied on many issues. I can tell when the Circle members get frustrated and have to comment and say "This is a core rules issue, which we are not allowed to address" regarding inconsistencies in rules. One of the most notorious ones in LG is that there is no explanation of how riding dogs trained for war explicitly functions. RPGA officials are forbidden from even making a house rule to explain how it should work since WotC holds the whip.

[tzor]

1187009685[/unixtime]]One of the most notorious ones in LG is that there is no explanation of how riding dogs trained for war explicitly functions. RPGA officials are forbidden from even making a house rule to explain how it should work since WotC holds the whip.

Ah this explains everything. It's HAL syndonre. The paradox in the rules and the inability to even discuss the paradox was the reason why HAL went insane in 2001. It might explain why the RPGA is insane and has literally gone "to the dogs."

[Jacob_Orlove]

1187008683[/unixtime]]
Full casting and even a 50% experience penalty... I don't see how you can manage that unless you are willing to do something crazy like count Sublime Chord as a "full caster". Only way to get exp penalties is by taking base classes, and there aren't base classes here that let you raise other class caster levels.

Yeah, I'd have to use Sublime Chord, or Ur-Priest, or possibly Chameleon (if I can get in as a Changeling). Five levels is enough to go 3/1/1 which is a 40% penalty for a nonhuman, and then I can just start doing Ur-Priest stuff or whatever.

[Catharz]

If you want to stop advancing in XP, just use a lot of spells with XP components.

[Username17]

1187024599[/unixtime]]If you want to stop advancing in XP, just use a lot of spells with XP components.

Yeah, using the rules of RPGA item creation I figured out that you could spend the appropriate time units to never ever gain any levels ever once you were a 7th level Cleric by just making and selling items of lesser planar ally. Your XP would go up and down, but your level never would. Meanwhile your GP would continue to climb.

-Username17

[Prak]

Well, I sure as hell don't want to ruin the experience of the other guys at the table, I'm not that much of a dick...

I just have a beef with some of the inane rules of RPGA and wanted someway to "get back" at the actual organization about it...

I guess the thing to do is be civil around my local group and then pull out the broken stuff at a Con with RPGA games run by the actual organization....


although that could completely ruin any hope of getting a job at WotC... which I still kinda have...

OR I could do that, forget WotC, and start my own d20 company...

[Koumei]

I'm not sure, as I don't play Living and just looked over the rules once, but don't they have the right to force you to retire if you go out of your way to keep your level down (via crafting, intentional death etc.)?

It sounds incredibly retarded if you ask me. The whole thing, that is.

As for infuriating concepts being fun for all - many do turn out to be. Any time anyone has been told of "Hur hur, I'm a ___", they immediately wanted in on the idea, and came up with their own.

[erik]

Heh, no Ur-Priest, no Chameleon, and there is a cap on how much XP you can spend via spellcasting (50 x APL played at, or one spell which exceeds that cap).

One could craft 25 scrolls of Lesser Planar Ally if you had 6 TUs and 15k gp on hand (presumably from selling your last 25 scrolls). That would burn about 3200 xp I believe. Hrm that could do the trick. That might be enough of a red flag that if someone noticed when signing off on your item creation sheet that trouble could be had. Repeating the trick forever would definitely get noticed, but one could likely get away with it in smaller doses.

As for forced retirement, I haven't heard of anyone ever retired for crafting, but I can only imagine that someone using something like crafting & selling lesser planar ally scrolls in excess would get smacked upside the head. Intentional death or energy draining is much more likely to get your character canned/retired for poor sportsmanship.


Unless you do twist the system on wealth generation, most LG characters are behind the standard wealth by level guidelines thanks to thinks like fluff items, upkeep costs, and expendable items. I do think that many of LGs rules are incredibly dumb and/or restrictive, but I respect that they're coming from a complicated place of trying to stay true to the setting (and the setting does make no sense in light of what magic is capable of, especially with many thousand adventurers with enough wealth to buy the everything in the world many times over), promote WotC's products, and try to maintain a stable and fun play environment for a huge player base.

I also have to respect that if I didn't have LG to play, I'd maybe get to play role playing games once or twice a year. Ugh.

[JonSetanta]

I read up on RPGA, talked to local gamers, and then threw that crap away in the recesses of Almighty Geekingdom.
It's not worth even admitting that it exists.
Just ignore it.

Oh and don't make eye contact, it might bite.

[Koumei]

1187072171[/unixtime]]
Unless you do twist the system on wealth generation, most LG characters are behind the standard wealth by level guidelines thanks to thinks like fluff items, upkeep costs, and expendable items.

There is a verb, to Greyhawk something. To Greyhawk something is to loot everything. Steal the friggin' clothes off the corpses, sell their shoes, treat it like Diablo 2 at the lowest levels, where even a cracked dagger is worth your trouble. If there's furniture that isn't bolted down, take it. If there's furniture that IS bolted down, score, you take the bolts as well.

Greyhawking every single thing you find, possibly even taking the individual bricks from the dungeon, and you might manage to meet the wealth by level guidelines.

[erik]

Greyhawk does get verbed a lot in games I've played, but you still can't make more per adventure than the caps for the APL you play at. Gold over that cap is called, gold over cap, and it can only be used to ablate expense incurred during the adventure and such.

You pretty much only beat the wealth by level guidelines by either crafting or losing levels/XP. Wizards and sorcerers should take note of their class feature which lets the caster lose 200xp/class level. Familiars are good for something! Obtain familiar lets Bards and other casters get in on the trick too.


Here's a little anecdote to rile up those who don't need riling up.

A few adventures ago my party and I got royally dicked for not greyhawking anyone we met.

Our 1st encounter: 2 road guards on platforms who were telling us travel through woods were dangerous and forbidden. They had the legitmate authority to do so, so rather than beat up decent guys doing their job, we showed some forged papers to get past. We lost gold since apparently the writers of that mod expect you to not only fight these guys, but also rob them and leave them for dead in dangerous territory.

2nd Encounter with a couple guards inside town who we know are illegally holding prisoners that we have been sent to rescue. We subdue them in 2 rounds. Get 8gp profit from their ass.

3rd Encounter which we didn't get, because were weren't total morons, was if after rescuing the prisoners we could have followed an army that was marching away from the town and confronted it. Apparently then a couple level appropriate enemies come out from the army to face us, and the rest... leave?

Ugh. So we saved our targets, we ended combats about as fast as possible in about as favorable way as possible, and our end reward was 8 gold pieces. Upkeep is 12 gp minimum. Good times.

I'm an activist judge so if I ever have to run that crap, I'm simply paying the party APL cap gold for bringing the soldiers back safely and the information about the army.

The best part of all this was that really we could have even gotten evil acts for leaving unarmed helpless innocent guards in the woods, and hefty fines too. The next adventure I played after this in the same region we got railroaded into an encounter where we either had to pay 2000gp taxes (from level 4 characters!) or fight. Diplomacy was not allowed. So we fought, since we had no reason to assume these bastards were anything more than robbers who looted some noble's crests for their armor.

Our archer killed their leader, and we subdued the rest. The archer who killed the leader got Manslaughter: 52 TU fine (so the entire year off and not much time left for next year), and confiscation of all his shit. Our two wizards who mercifully only used colory spray and glitterdust (while my rogue sapped enemies into unconsciousness) both got slapped with Negligent Use of Magic: lost their spellbooks paid 500gp and a spent 6 TUs working in a mine. We all got hit with Interfering with Servants of a Noble, but I spent some influence to get out of that minor crime which was a few hundred gp and few TUs.

The archer definitely made a mistake in continuing to try and kill guys who were confronting us, and the paladin screwed the archer by not walking a couple squares and stabilizing the fallen enemy. It took me 3 rounds of telling them to heal that guy before someone tried to (and apparently he was put to -9 when he fell down).

So the same region is sending awfully mixed signals about either beating up and robbing the pants off of anyone you meet to make any gold at all, or not, for fear of having everything taken from you.

[AlphaNerd]

So, someone who guards a dangerous area carries his sack of gold with him? Wtf?

[erik]

Nooooo, see you have to do as Koumei said: Take their armor, their weapons and their pants if they're nice, and sell them.

[Koumei]

Wow, the whole thing really is so excessively dumb that it exceeds the amount of dumbness required to qualify for excessively dumb. That's bad.

In that second case you mentioned, I'd probably just resign all-up, sending the relevant authorities a photograph of my middle finger. Or goatse, labeled "Insert your game rules here" or whatever.

It does seem remarkably stupid, so players may as well just do all they can to send a "You're pissing us off" message to the higher-ups.