A funny way to beat Truesight

[User3]

So, I was reading the FAQ, and it says that Truesight lets you see Ethereal Objects. Also, those same objects block line of sight if you can see them with Truesight.

So, if you want a secret lair to be Truesight-proof, you go into the Ethereal, cast Wall of Stone everywhere(though I'm not sure if ethereal stone counts as place to put this spell), then come back. In the real world you pass through ethereal stuff and its invisible; a person using Truesight would be blind.

[Count Arioch the 28th]

You know, I find that strangely plausable, somehow.

A lot of rules trickery would just seem bizarre and nonsensical in an actual game, but that trickactually seems like it would make sense.

[Murtak]

Nice one. For extra fun add explosive runes to those walls.

[Username17]

For extra fun add explosive runes to those walls.

That doesn't work. A Force Effect generated on the material extends into the ethereal, but a Force Effect generated on the ethereal does not extend into the material.

So while you can create a force sword on the material and then have an ethereal creature pick it up and beat the living crap out of material people, an explosive runes cast on an ethereal object would explode harmlessly if a material enemy with true sight saw it.

-Username17

[Murtak]

Bleh, you are right - you would need a non-physical or a force effect for that little trick to work. And explosive runes is the only trap spell that explodes when being read, right? At least I can't remember any spell that works like explosive runes.

[User3]

Can you inscibe contingent spells on objects? 'Cause I'm thinking that a contingent Plane Shift could be fun...

[RandomCasualty]

Yeah this is a cool way of countering true seeing. I'll have to use this in one of my games sometime.

[Sma]

The Transdimensional Spell metamagic should amke the Runes explode into the material IIRC

[Josh_Kablack]

Care to quote the relevant FAQ entry? Or at least give a page reference?

Because that's not quite what the core rules say.

As per the spell wording, "the subject can focus its vision to see into the Ethereal Place."

Which seems to me to indicate that True Seeing gives the option of seeing ethereal or not seeing ethereal - in which case purely ethereal objects should not block a material plane to material plane of sight, but would block material to astral lin of sight.

[Murtak]

Doh, and it was such a nice idea too.

It still works in a very limited fashion - if someone casts true seeing in the middle of all these walls he would probably be blind for one turn, seeing as there is normally no reason to not see into the ethereal. That would be sufficient to trigger explsoive runes, but sadly transdimensional spell explicitely states that the spell affects creatures on the ethereal, the plane of shadow or in extradimensional spaces.

[User3]

Well, page 45 of the FAQ link uses the phrase "an ethereal wall would be visible to someone using True Seeing or a similiar effect."

What the spell text of "can focus its vision to see into the Ethereal Plane" means is up to anyone's guess.

[Murtak]

Well, considering the previous paragraph lists everything true seeing always does and then goes on to state what it can do it seems rather clear to me that seeing into the ethereal is not an "always on" property of the spell.

What it does not state is how you switch between seeing into the ethereal and not. If I had to make a judgement call I would say you decide at the beginning of your turn, but it could just as well be a free action or be determined when you cast the spell.

[User3]

Here's an additional clarifiaction on ethereaness that supports my interpretation. link The text states:

With respect to creatures and objects on the Material Plane, an ethereal creature has many of the properties of invisibility and incorporeality. In fact, the rules often speak of ethereal creatures as invisible and incorporeal. Unfortunately, an ethereal creature is not really invisible (just unseen) and it is not incorporeal at all (though it can do many of the same things that an incorporeal creature can do). This last point is worth repeating: The rules tend to use the terms etherealness and incorporeality interchangeably because it is convenient to do so, but the two are not equivalent. Here's a summary of the abilities and properties an ethereal creature has with respect to objects and creatures on the Material Plane:

* Effective invisibility and silence.

Although a creature on the Ethereal can see indistinctly into the Material Plane (see pages 151 and 293 in the Dungeon Master's Guide), creatures on the Material Plane can't see into the Ethereal without some kind of magical aid. A detect invisibility or true seeing spell used on the Material Plane reveals things on the Ethereal.