LE arcane casters win the Wish Economy

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Jerry
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LE arcane casters win the Wish Economy

Post by Jerry »

If you use Planar Binding on an Efreet, then the spell is Lawful Evil. The monster's subtypes that you summon become the subtypes of the spell (Binding an angel makes the spell Good, binding a demon makes it Chaotic, Evil). Thus, blackmailing an angel to do your services is Good.
Now, I couldn't find anything in the SRD that prevents Good casters from casting Evil spells. If that were the case, then alignment descriptors are nearly meaningless under the RAW, as the GM's discretion matters on said character's alignment. A clever player can rationalize the event to the GM so that it fits within the character's moral standard. "But I had to use the life-draining darkness spell to save the world/innocents! You've got to understand!"
Now, if there is any incentive for non-Lawful Evil arcane casters to not chain bind efreet, then only Lawful Evil arcane spellcasters can gain free Wishes by level 9.
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the_taken
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Re: LE arcane casters win the Wish Economy

Post by the_taken »

Jerry wrote:If you use Planar Binding on an Efreet, then the spell is Lawful Evil. The monster's subtypes that you summon become the subtypes of the spell (Binding an angel makes the spell Good, binding a demon makes it Chaotic, Evil). Thus, blackmailing an angel to do your services is Good.
Now, I couldn't find anything in the SRD that prevents Good casters from casting Evil spells. If that were the case, then alignment descriptors are nearly meaningless under the RAW, as the GM's discretion matters on said character's alignment. A clever player can rationalize the event to the GM so that it fits within the character's moral standard. "But I had to use the life-draining darkness spell to save the world/innocents! You've got to understand!"
Now, if there is any incentive for non-Lawful Evil arcane casters to not chain bind efreet, then only Lawful Evil arcane spellcasters can gain free Wishes by level 9.
The alignment effect of the calling/summoning spells doesn't mean dick all. Under a monster entry, if the alignment says "Always X" it actually means 99.9%. Meaning 0.01% are not X. Outer plains are infinite in size, and population. Multiplying gets you infinite creature Y with alignment not X, or alignment Z (the one you want). You can totally summon a chaotic good efreet.
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Post by Username17 »

A spell having the [Evil] subtype does not mean that casting it or using it is an evil act unless you are riding in the short bus with the people who wrote the BoED.

Good Clerics can't cast spells with the [Evil] subtype. For spells like unholy blight, Clerics can't cast it because they can't channel that kind of evil power from their god. But for spells like planar ally, it's just because the Good Clerics don't have allies from those planar groups.

It's a tag which marks who can and can not cast it, not a tag which marks how you should feel about yourself for having cast it.

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Post by K »

The [evil] tag really only has one use in SRD, which is that dispel evil automatically dispels evil spells.

Later supplements have tried to make use of it, but in almost all cases it wzs just flavorless power.
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Post by Orion »

A quick demonstration: using Holy Smite to murder peasants is decidedly not good.
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Post by Calibron »

The [Evil] tag also functions to make evil Clerics with the Evil Domain win low-mid level D&D. Evilly.
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Post by Prak »

Boolean wrote:A quick demonstration: using Holy Smite to murder peasants is decidedly not good.
according to standard D&D alignment, it is if the peasants are evil. But then it's also not murder...
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Post by shirak »

Prak_Anima wrote:
Boolean wrote:A quick demonstration: using Holy Smite to murder peasants is decidedly not good.
according to standard D&D alignment, it is if the peasants are evil. But then it's also not murder...
I disagree. Wasting Holy Smite on peasants is unconditionally an Evil act. It's either a demonstration of badassitude that only the Dragon (BBEG's second) needs to do or wasting your time on peasants when youcould be doing much better things with your character's time.

Admittedly, in the second case it's the player who is evil but hey. 50% success is better than any gaming company ever so I'm on a good thing here. 8)
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Post by name_here »

The main purpose of the alignment descriptors is to change your Caster Level when you cast them.
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Post by Fwib »

FrankTrollman wrote:A spell having the [Evil] subtype does not mean that casting it or using it is an evil act unless you are riding in the short bus with the people who wrote the BoED.
See also the Unrestricted Conjuration power of the Malconvoker in Complete Scoundrel, where it is implicitly declared that using abilities with the [evil] tag makes you evil...

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Post by Koumei »

Fwib wrote:it is implicitly declared that using abilities with the [evil] tag makes you evil...
Aside from "2 sources contradicting the core rules, core wins", this isn't even a problem:

Become evil from that? Just cast [good] spells until you're good again! Or cast [fire] spells until you become fire and burn people. Better yet! Cast [sonic] spells, and you will TURN INTO A FAST, BLUE HEDGEHOG!
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Post by Maxus »

Koumei wrote:
Fwib wrote:it is implicitly declared that using abilities with the [evil] tag makes you evil...
Aside from "2 sources contradicting the core rules, core wins", this isn't even a problem:

Become evil from that? Just cast [good] spells until you're good again! Or cast [fire] spells until you become fire and burn people. Better yet! Cast [sonic] spells, and you will TURN INTO A FAST, BLUE HEDGEHOG!

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Post by Fwib »

Koumei wrote:
Fwib wrote:it is implicitly declared that using abilities with the [evil] tag makes you evil...
Aside from "2 sources contradicting the core rules, core wins", this isn't even a problem:

Become evil from that? Just cast [good] spells until you're good again! Or cast [fire] spells until you become fire and burn people. Better yet! Cast [sonic] spells, and you will TURN INTO A FAST, BLUE HEDGEHOG!
I totally agree, but I can't find where in the core it says that casting [alignment] spells does not affect your alignment :(
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Post by Talisman »

Fwib wrote:I totally agree, but I can't find where in the core it says that casting [alignment] spells does not affect your alignment :(
It doesn't. The cleric entry states that "A cleric can't cast spells of an alignment opposed to his own or his deity's". (PHB, page 33) The druid entry states the same (page 35). The arcane caster classes lack this entry - therefore, casting [alignment] spells doesn't affect them one way or t'other.

As a GM, I would probably have issues with a "good" arcanist PC repeatedly casting [evil] spells, but that's flavor text and houserules and I know it. It arguably should be crunch...but it's not.
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