Video Games

[Aryxbez]

Now I know I will be making a characters 3/8/3/3/3/7/1,

I basically had a character planned looking at the proposed perks, seeing the full perk tree it will mostly stay the same.

My SPECIAL is going to be 8,1,4,5,3,5,2 respectively. I might lower Luck for more Endurance now we know Swimming will be something to care about. Otherwise Str for all the fun meleeing, smithing of it, Perception I'll level to 4 eventually for lockipick, Endurance is ok as is but will be raised later for murdering, Cha to raise to 6 to do settlement stuff at level 11, Int 3 for Gun smithing, 5 Agility for obvious Stealth perks, as RPG stealth is king. Finally, the two perks for Luck upping money/ammo found seem generically useful enough to warrant a point, otherwise I'd move it to something else (like Endurance or Charisma).

Oh, and I had no problem using the new stat array? So I'm not sure what those complaints are about. Also we knew probably a month or two ago that you can max out your character (sadly), there's no level cap. So its probably like Skyrim, where level 50? will be supposed final level, but can still go beyond this range to get more perks (hopefully they did the math so the game doesn't break down).

[Kaelik]

Uggg. Apparently the Fallout 4 release is going to be one of those dumb staggered ones where it unlocks at 12:00AM in your region, so 19 hours earlier for New Zealand than for the US, for some reason.

Why can't people figure out that this shit is stupid?

[Aryxbez]

Uggg. Apparently the Fallout 4 release is going to be one of those dumb staggered ones where it unlocks at 12:00AM in your region, so 19 hours earlier for New Zealand than for the US, for some reason.

Why can't people figure out that this shit is stupid?

Ok? Why does that matter, it's only a few days to wait, I can wait some hours In a region I don't exist in. I guess if you have Friends in New Zealand who SPOILER everything for you that would suck, but otherwise whatevs. That said, sounds outdated, and I'm curious, why is it stupid?

Also if you're just trying to look for something Fallout 4-related to talk about, there's already plenty we could talk about. Such as the alleged 111,000+ lines of Dialog that vastly outpaces New Vegas (hate they mention Skyrim + Fallout 3 as the comparison), and if even half of that will reach NEW VEGAS quality. How basically NO ONE mentions Fallout: New Vegas for some goddamn reason, despite it's the superior title of Fallout 3 & Skyrim combined (former for obvious reason, latter because of superior game/story design). How they reintroduced getting XP for finding locales, despite it was a generally bad design element to begin with (maybe they balanced it this time). Even if "Rubberbanding" will make interesting enemies, or will they just be identical raiders padded sumo full-stop? (additionally if the High-level play's numbers have been balanced or not)

[GreatGreyShrike]

Honestly I'm at the point with Bethesda where I'm just going to wait at least 6 months for fans to take their engine and base concept and patch all the egregious bugs, make the UI not blow, and fix the glaring balance issues. Bethesda's previous efforts in the RPG sphere have always had huge, glaring issues at release.

[Kaelik]

Ok? Why does that matter, it's only a few days to wait, I can wait some hours In a region I don't exist in. I guess if you have Friends in New Zealand who SPOILER everything for you that would suck, but otherwise whatevs. That said, sounds outdated, and I'm curious, why is it stupid?

It isn't about how people are going to be spoilered, it is that the game clearly exists in a playable state, and people will be playing it, so they should damn well release it to everyone at that point. Literally any purpose is gone:

1) Big games are mailed out by amazon early, so physical disk users will have the disk already.
2) Gamestop/bestbuy retailers don't open until 9AM or whatever, since it is released at 12:00AM, PC users are already getting it before those people.
3) The game exists already, and people use VPNs can be playing it hours early.
4) Even the region locks make no sense, people in Pacific are still getting it on the 9th at 8PM, which is fine and all, and I don't think they should have to wait, but if retailers are in any way the reason they couldn't have it at 8:00AM on the 8th then why the fuck can they have it at 8:00PM?

So there are no benefits to the system at all, all it does is encourage people to pirate the game because you can sometimes get pirates early, or to VPN to new zealand and break Steam terms of service.

What is being accomplished by staggered releases that makes them worth doing?

Also if you're just trying to look for something Fallout 4-related to talk about, there's already plenty we could talk about. Such as the alleged 111,000+ lines of Dialog that vastly outpaces New Vegas (hate they mention Skyrim + Fallout 3 as the comparison), and if even half of that will reach NEW VEGAS quality.

Probably because Metal Gear Solid has more dialogue than all game ever, and no one cares, because it is all garbage. Quantity is not as important as quality. And the fact that I can watch lots of dialogue in the form of cutscences that I can't interact with after the initial choice is not impressive. Fallout 4 might not have garbage level interactions, but it doesn't actually matter how much there is.

How basically NO ONE mentions Fallout: New Vegas for some goddamn reason, despite it's the superior title of Fallout 3 & Skyrim combined (former for obvious reason, latter because of superior game/story design).

Probably because Vegas was an inferior game with a shitty worldmap that made it less fun than Fallout 3 despite a few small improvements in the mechanics. I'm not even going to begin comparing Elder Scrolls games to fallout games.

How they reintroduced getting XP for finding locales, despite it was a generally bad design element to begin with (maybe they balanced it this time).

Uh... who cares? No seriously, you can grind infinite XP by shooting the same bandits in the head over and over again and then waiting 24 hours for a location to refresh. In no way does getting more or less XP unbalance the game. You can level up 42 times putting ranks into special stats, and then put another 30-50 perks per tree. You can be level 300 times and still have perks to spend. No one cares if you get some extra XP for scouting a location.

Even if "Rubberbanding" will make interesting enemies, or will they just be identical raiders padded sumo full-stop? (additionally if the High-level play's numbers have been balanced or not)

This has always been an issue for Bethesda games since at least Oblivion, but the obvious reason no one is talking about it is because no one knows.

[Darth Rabbitt]

How basically NO ONE mentions Fallout: New Vegas for some goddamn reason, despite it's the superior title of Fallout 3 & Skyrim combined (former for obvious reason, latter because of superior game/story design).

Er, what? (Kaelik more or less summed up my feelings on New Vegas already, so I won't go there.) It seems completely reasonable to compare Fallout 4 to Fallout 3 and Skyrim instead of New Vegas. Skyrim is the most recently released Bethesda RPG and Fallout 3 was their most recent Fallout game. New Vegas wasn't made by Bethesda.

[Stahlseele]

The only reason for staggered releases i can see is to not have the servers go bye bye when half the world suddenly wants to download and play a game.

[Kaelik]

The only reason for staggered releases i can see is to not have the servers go bye bye when half the world suddenly wants to download and play a game.

That would make more sense if it wasn't a preloaded singleplayer game with no servers.

[Aryxbez]

Er, what? (Kaelik more or less summed up my feelings on New Vegas already, so I won't go there.) It seems completely reasonable to compare Fallout 4 to Fallout 3 and Skyrim instead of New Vegas. Skyrim is the most recently released Bethesda RPG and Fallout 3 was their most recent Fallout game. New Vegas wasn't made by Bethesda.

True in those regards, but they could still mention New Vegas even though they were only the publisher. I can't disagree more on New Vegas dislike, even if the invisible walls were beyond stupid. I will say I remember your reasons, and they seemed like they were basically complaining that video games have limited story inputs.

Literally any purpose is gone:

In that case fair enough, if every venue is getting it on cue but us, then that is hurting an impatient market for no gain in the name of tradition? Which point I don't really have an answer for that question, as I agree that's pointless.

I'm not even going to begin comparing Elder Scrolls games to fallout games.

Eh, doesn't mean one can't still make comparisons. It's clear the New Vegas "Neutral Voice" was superior to Skyrim or Fallout 3's assumption of a semi-personality in the dialog. While Skyrim just made your character sound like he was a retard ("are you a blacksmith?" looking at a guy pounding metal), Fallout 3 was more aggregerious in trying to force a certain personality for your character (albeit not noticed as much in the first playthrough, especially if its ones first fallout experience). That said, New Vegas DLC's I heard apparently inserted a bit of a personality to quell the complaints, so hopefully they reached a balance.

[Kaelik]

Eh, doesn't mean one can't still make comparisons. It's clear the New Vegas "Neutral Voice" was superior to Skyrim or Fallout 3's assumption of a semi-personality in the dialog. While Skyrim just made your character sound like he was a retard ("are you a blacksmith?" looking at a guy pounding metal), Fallout 3 was more aggregerious in trying to force a certain personality for your character (albeit not noticed as much in the first playthrough, especially if its ones first fallout experience). That said, New Vegas DLC's I heard apparently inserted a bit of a personality to quell the complaints, so hopefully they reached a balance.

I errr... what? Like, if I were to rank the things that are important in making a good fallout or elder scrolls game, the implied tone of some conversation options you don't even have to choose is like 4000/5000. I mean, I'm going to play Fallout 4 even though this dialogue is going to force a player voice on me which I have already heard and already pisses me off, and is probably going to limit my choices in tone a signficant amount as well. And yet, it will almost certainly be better than New Vegas, and probably better than Fallout 3, because the world map and the game mechanics are 40 billion times more important than some implied tone.

[Chamomile]

Now I just wanna know why the total available SPECIAL points are 28 instead of 40 like every previous game.

This makes me want to use the jailbroken chargen mod, which we all know is going to be out within like a week of the game's release, to make a character with straight 10s, just out of spite.

[Kaelik]

Now I just wanna know why the total available SPECIAL points are 28 instead of 40 like every previous game.

This makes me want to use the jailbroken chargen mod, which we all know is going to be out within like a week of the game's release, to make a character with straight 10s, just out of spite.

Presumably the reason is because special is worth comparitively more now, since each points unlocks a bunch of perks, and so by forcing you to cut off more perks from your character they force more early differentiation.

Seems silly to me in that there is still plenty of differentiation, and I would be fine with a mere 250 levels instead of 300.

Though yeah, by about level 50 when I will need to start spending levels to upgrade stats to get access to more perks that I want, I'm just going to console command all my stats to 10 instead.

[Longes]

While Skyrim just made your character sound like he was a retard ("are you a blacksmith?" looking at a guy pounding metal)

Oi! Don't disrespect Kojima's school of dialogue! "Metal Gear?!", "The Patriots?!" and so on are classic lines of classicism!

[Aryxbez]

Oi! Don't disrespect Kojima's school of dialogue! "Metal Gear?!", "The Patriots?!" and so on are classic lines of classicism!

Except its just inane questions that are so obvious, they have no place in a game that's allegedly targeted for a 17+ audience. It really showed an example of a level of writing for like a 12yr old or otherwise someone who eats paste. This level of dialog occurs often throughout in Skyrim, sometimes RIGHT after someone says something in the same damn conversation you were in. Course dumb options like those I can usually at least avoid, but its stupid they were there in the first place. Especially, the hate aside, New Vegas got away with not having as inane dialog for paste-eaters.

"Metal Gear" theatrics were likely on purpose, or least some excuse of translation, Skyrim does not have that excuse (although I get ye were joking, that crap just irks me).

Now I just wanna know why the total available SPECIAL points are 28 instead of 40 like every previous game.

This makes me want to use the jailbroken chargen mod, which we all know is going to be out within like a week of the game's release, to make a character with straight 10s, just out of spite.

This really sounds like you guys are whining because they changed "tradition" of the stats, opposed to recognizing the change in the stats meaning. I would expect more of you two folks on the den to not fall to the trap of Sacred Cows.

Anyway I'm really looking forward to getting lost in the Settlement minigame. See what fruits of the labor that'll come out of that, and memorable battles defending it. If possible to "loot" multiple Power Armor suits, I think I would move them all to each of my settlements so I can easily just jump in any one to defend it, and go all "gatekeeper" on their @$$. Anyone else got any character builds pre-planned, or other Fallout 4 junk want to point out?

[Kaelik]

This really sounds like you guys are whining because they changed "tradition" of the stats, opposed to recognizing the change in the stats meaning. I would expect more of you two folks on the den to not fall to the trap of Sacred Cows.

You are an idiot. I literally explained the reason for the change in my post, it just also doesn't do much of anything, and I'm not going to grind 42 levels just to up my stats, which is what I would be going from level 50-82 anyway.

[Aryxbez]

You are an idiot. I literally explained the reason for the change in my post, it just also doesn't do much of anything, and I'm not going to grind 42 levels just to up my stats, which is what I would be going from level 50-82 anyway.

I was referring to the people quoted (I.E. Chamomile & Hadanelith), your post was actually recognizing the change, so while my statement can construed as vague, you should pay more attention. That said its valid to do that since you're already likely into the late/end game. Others wanting to do it because "you changed things!" is so petulant that it deserves mockery. In the end, if someone wishes to start as a max character, that's their preference and I don't have to give a shizen about it.

I'd possibly use console commands to cheat for an item that's becoming too tedious to acquire, but I want to buy. Perhaps to bypass a quest that should be working but isn't after all other in-game efforts been exhausted.

[Kaelik]

I was referring to the people quoted (I.E. Chamomile & Hadanelith), your post was actually recognizing the change, so while my statement can construed as vague, you should pay more attention.

Since Hadanelith never at any point complained about it and has 65 total posts on the den, it was certainly reasonable to assume that you were referring to the two people actually complaining about it, IE, Cham and I.

That said its valid to do that since you're already likely into the late/end game. Others wanting to do it because "you changed things!" is so petulant that it deserves mockery. In the end, if someone wishes to start as a max character, that's their preference and I don't have to give a shizen about it.

No one is talking about starting as a max level character. They are saying they don't want to grind levels for stats, and would prefer levels give actual things, like perks. That is not a terrible position to held.

[Aryxbez]

Since Hadanelith never at any point complained about it and has 65 total posts on the den, it was certainly reasonable to assume that you were referring to the two people actually complaining about it, IE, Cham and I.

While yes I said "you guys" therefore could be construed to include you, usually when someone responds to quote(s) they're likely addressing those who are making the argument (though could just be the argument itself so I can see why you responded). He in fact is wondering why they changed the stats, and without regard for the meaning behind the change, is wanting to change it back to 40 (the original stat array of Fallout games, hence "tradition"). So yes, he's complaining that tradition was changed, albeit he's not advocating a "max level or max stat" character at the beginning.

While Chamomile is in fact advocating a Max Stat character at the beginning on the conceits of "doing out of spite" or basically feeling like that's somehow being rebellious to the designers. That notion is pretty stupid, but wanting more meaningful level-ups is fair, since stat-ups are likely providing minimal number changes and of course expanded Perk range. I'd prefer to play a game as intended when first starting it, but preferences can be just that, so its whatever.

[Chamomile]

Now I just wanna know why the total available SPECIAL points are 28 instead of 40 like every previous game.

This makes me want to use the jailbroken chargen mod, which we all know is going to be out within like a week of the game's release, to make a character with straight 10s, just out of spite.

This really sounds like you guys are whining because they changed "tradition" of the stats, opposed to recognizing the change in the stats meaning.

I made no statement as to why I was unsatisfied with the change, and Hadenalith explicitly stated in the post I quoted a fragment of that the reason he doesn't like the change is because it sharply limited his options at chargen. Your immediate assumption that he and I are defending sacred cows is entirely baseless when he explicitly has other reasons for disliking the change and I am implicitly agreeing with him.

[Aryxbez]

Entirely baseless? that's incorrect. While having 12 more points for stats is in fact "more options", the 21 (or 28 including 1 minimum) has been shown to be enough to make a character who specializes. Complaining the game isn't doing the 40 points (I.E what's been done before, hence "tradition), and thus must be changed back to that without regarding what changes it makes. Then yes you're basically stating it should use the same stat array of past fallouts, hence again, Tradition.

The claim its not enough points I am failing to see based on plenty of people having been able to plan around that.

[Chamomile]

While having 12 more points for stats is in fact "more options", the 21 (or 28 including 1 minimum) has been shown to be enough to make a character who specializes.

Nine points is enough to make a character who specializes. It will raise exactly one stat to ten. That doesn't mean it's enough to make the character I want to play. So yes, your accusations were and are baseless.

[Kaelik]

EDIT: on the list of people complaining about things that it makes no sense for them to complain about, I'm looking around to see if the console commands have been published anywhere online, I don't know if anyone has looked at the character level up in depth, but basically, after a certain point, you both can and have to level all your special stats to 10 to progress as a character, so when I've maxed out the perks I qualify for that I want, I'll probably just console command my stats up to get access to the new perks instead of grinding levels. But every console command thread for the game (and frankly, for every game ever) has some random people jump in and yell "WHY YOU CHEAT! RUINING GAME WITH GODMODE!"

Stop being this guy Aryxbez.

I mean, you are doing a slightly different version, but you are basically this guy. Some people want to make certain characters, especially in a game in a universe they have played multiple characters before. The inability to make those characters is a perfectly valid complaint, and since the benefits provided by the game denying them the ability to play characters they played in the past is . . . nothing at all. It is a reasonable complaint.

[coins]

Why do you guys think the world space in New Vegas worse than fallout 3, is it because of the bullshit enemy placement (cazadors, giant scorpions near goodspring)?

[Kaelik]

Why do you guys think the world space in New Vegas worse than fallout 3, is it because of the bullshit enemy placement (cazadors, giant scorpions near goodspring)?

No, mostly it comes out to the fact that the entire world is just a giant flatish empty space with set points inbetween. Fallout 3 feels less flat, and there is an entire section of the map, the inner city, that feels less like interspersed set pieces, and more like a believable world where interesting stuff is everywhere.

That is actually one of the reasons I am hopeful for Fallout 4, the more vertical nature of the game from what I have seen of the world so far, feel much more likely to be the type of world I would enjoy.

[Stahlseele]

i do not like the leveling up for stats change they implemented either.
traditionally, you could do stuff to improve your attributes and skills through in universe things, not through game mechanics.
(read books, buy implants, do quests/talk to NPCs)
The closest thing they got to attribute changes through game mechanics was through the back door of perks increasing certain stats.