Dungeoneering: Back to Basics

Dean · Post by **Dean** » Mon Aug 25, 2014 12:22 am

Backstory: Atani was born into a common family in an unusually stable Wood Elf settlement. As a child and into adolescence Atani grew up to be a remarkable physical specimen and some stories of his antics with other children have already graduated through retelling into a kind of folklore about the young boy. At the earliest eligible age Atani joined the Gladeguard, a unit of Rangers that defends the Elves home, but hasn't yet done anything but engage in war games and training excersizes with the single exception of a small bugbear skirmish he participated in. Recently he requested of his Glade's Prince a period of leave to explore and train abroad. This was an unusual and unorthodox request which was nevertheless approved by his Lord who sagaciously understood that for all his natural gifts Atani was in many ways still a child, and if wanderlust had him he would be gone soon enough. Better to have him leave with their blessing than as a deserter.
Atani is now on a self described adventure as an explorer and thrill seeker. Looking for new and exciting opportunities to find out more about the world and to become something worth returning home as.

Tactics for my Party's Consideration: I rolled pretty well on the HP roll so I'm willing to be the guy in front who gets beaten on by everything, but since I rolled stats that are DM's girlfriend high I ended up being a much more competent archer than expected so would prefer to be second line until a few more d10's get added on top of my HP total. Another hardy bruiser type would be an ideal companion for me, a Gimli to my Legolas if you will to get me to the mid levels.
Speaking of mid levels, I've noticed that there is almost no growth that my character will be doing. He will remain almost entirely unchanged for the next 6 levels so I'm happy to accept that it may actually be my job to bring the Mage's past the gauntlet of the first few levels, self-survival be damned, so that we can have people with actual abilities when Griffins start showing up in groups of 6-12 and other 2nd ed madness.

Final Note: I wrote my clan out for brevity, I'll just be Atani of the Gladeguard now.

Darth Rabbitt · Post by **Darth Rabbitt** » Mon Aug 25, 2014 2:24 am

Ironically, I found a patron deity of male Drow that would seem more likely flavor-wise (and is probably better mechanically) for this guy to take. But worshiping the Sea Mother is much cooler, so I'm going to still do that. Maybe there are no shrines to Vhaeraun in the city that Gilles came from.

I have four more questions, before I can finish writing Gilles Marzilear, Male Drow Specialty Priest of Blibdoolpoolp:

1. Priests of Blibdoolpoolp are allowed to become priest/thieves, but I don't know if that'd be allowed for a Drow (since no Elves have the option to be a cleric/thief, and I have no idea whether or not that's a special benefit of being a specialty priest of Blibdoolpoolp that overrides that restriction, or whether just Kuo-Toa are allowed that multiclass combination. The priest-thief has its own HD instead of the normal multiclass combination, which further complicates the matter.) I assume the answer is no, but I'm going to ask anyways.

2. Similarly, I don't know whether or not I would get the SLAs of a priest of Blibdoolpoolp or that of a Drow Cleric (the entry in Complete Elf doesn't specify whether or not the bonus SLAs only applies to clerics of Drow deities. As far as I can tell, it is entirely possible I get both sets, or neither.)

3. I don't know if I can take a Priest Kit, or whether "Specialty Priest of Blibdoolpoolp" counts as as the one kit, or is considered incompatible with any kits. Also, if I am allowed a Priest Kit, and am also allowed to become a Priest/Thief (see question 1) I don't know if I'm allowed a Thief kit as well.

4. If I spend a NWP on Speak Language, can I select languages not on the Drow list for a high Intelligence? I need to know whether or not my character can speak Common, as that's neither an automatic nor a bonus language for Drow.

Sorry about all of the questions; as I stated before, my 2e-fu is weak.

Sam · Post by **Sam** » Mon Aug 25, 2014 2:28 am

10 hp is a lot when the other two confirmed characters have 1 hp, each. Focus on keeping Atani alive to keep our average xp up. That'll be important, considering how many new characters we will likely roll up over the course of the dungeon.

Also, I forgot to equip Betsy with a 10' pole. That's an especially glaring omission because the "find/remove traps" skill doesn't apply to things like pit traps in 2e, so I added one to her inventory.

Speaking of 2e bullshit, why the fuck would you have default values for thief skills and then modify those values for unarmored characters?! Apparently the baseline thief exists as a quantum superposition of armored and unarmored. Half of Betsy's skills look like I did the math wrong until I remember to remove the unarmored bonus AND add the armor penalty. I guess they just love unnecessary math in this edition.

Ancient History · Post by **Ancient History** » Mon Aug 25, 2014 2:38 am

Darth Rabbitt wrote: 1. Priests of Blibdoolpoolp are allowed to become priest/thieves, but I don't know if that'd be allowed for a Drow (since no Elves have the option to be a cleric/thief, and I have no idea whether or not that's a special benefit of being a specialty priest of Blibdoolpoolp that overrides that restriction, or whether just Kuo-Toa are allowed that multiclass combination. The priest-thief has its own HD instead of the normal multiclass combination, which further complicates the matter.) I assume the answer is no, but I'm going to ask anyways.

Which book is this in? There's a note in the PHB that priests of specific mythoi might have different character class options than usual for the race.

2. Similarly, I don't know whether or not I would get the SLAs of a priest of Blibdoolpoolp or that of a Drow Cleric (the entry in Complete Elf doesn't specify whether or not the bonus SLAs only applies to clerics of Drow deities. As far as I can tell, it is entirely possible I get both sets, or neither.)

Help me again. SLA?

3. I don't know if I can take a Priest Kit, or whether "Specialty Priest of Blibdoolpoolp" counts as as the one kit, or is considered incompatible with any kits. Also, if I am allowed a Priest Kit, and am also allowed to become a Priest/Thief (see question 1) I don't know if I'm allowed a Thief kit as well.

I will look into it. I know that multiclass characters can take a kit, even a multiclass kit, I don't remember if they can take multiple kits.

4. If I spend a NWP on Speak Language, can I select languages not on the Drow list for a high Intelligence? I need to know whether or not my character can speak Common, as that's neither an automatic nor a bonus language for Drow.

Yes, you can do that.

Sorry about all of the questions; as I stated before, my 2e-fu is weak.

I'm having to brush up on it again as well.

Ancient History · Post by **Ancient History** » Mon Aug 25, 2014 2:47 am

Okay, having researched the Kit issue, Kits were originally started in Player's Option: Skills & Powers, and it says a character may only have one kit. So even if you're a multiclass character, that's one kit - which can be a multiclass kit, or it can be a kit for either of the classes.

Sam · Post by **Sam** » Mon Aug 25, 2014 3:08 am

Technically, kits began with the complete fighter's handbook. But that also has the one kit per character rule.

Darth Rabbitt · Post by **Darth Rabbitt** » Mon Aug 25, 2014 3:17 am

Ancient History wrote:Which book is this in? There's a note in the PHB that priests of specific mythoi might have different character class options than usual for the race.

Monster Mythology, page 99. The Priest/Thief is also mentioned in the Kuo-Toa entry in the Monstrous Manual.

Help me again. SLA?

Spell-like ability. I probably shouldn't use 3e lingo to discuss 2e things.
In chapter 10 of the Complete Book of Elves, under the Drow entry:

Special Advantages wrote:Once per day, all drow can use the spells dancing lights, faerie fire, and darkness. They achieve this through force of will, rather than spell components. A 4th-level drow can cast levitate, know alignment, and detect magic once per day. In addition, drow priests can cast clairvoyance, detect lie, suggestion, and dispel magic once a day.

Emphasis mine.

Yes, you can do that.

OK, that's good.

Ancient History wrote:Okay, having researched the Kit issue, Kits were originally started in Player's Option: Skills & Powers, and it says a character may only have one kit. So even if you're a multiclass character, that's one kit - which can be a multiclass kit, or it can be a kit for either of the classes.

OK. I thank you again for your help.

Dean · Post by **Dean** » Mon Aug 25, 2014 3:18 am

Sam wrote:10 hp is a lot when the other two confirmed characters have 1 hp, each. Focus on keeping Atani alive to keep our average xp up. That'll be important, considering how many new characters we will likely roll up over the course of the dungeon.

Also, I forgot to equip Betsy with a 10' pole.

Alright that's a good plan. I'll make sure the party's banner keeps flying. I was thinking about statting up another couple characters and keeping them in a reserve pile in case anyone dies, self included, and wants to just jump back in.

Where'd you find 10 foot poles? I was gonna buy one but I couldn't find the listing for one anywhere. I was gonna just get a ranseur instead and use it for the same role.

Whenever Darth or Sirocco get their dudes in I'm ready for this, I've been checking through the old Crypts of Chaos which seems fun, if surprisingly dark and lovecraftian.

Sam · Post by **Sam** » Mon Aug 25, 2014 3:27 am

Oh, no wonder I forgot it the first time, it's not in the PHB equipment list! I can replace it with a spear, or we could assume that Betsy encountered a tree at some point in her life.

Sirocco · Post by **Sirocco** » Mon Aug 25, 2014 5:01 am

I'll get my pally ready within a few hours.

OgreBattle · Post by **OgreBattle** » Mon Aug 25, 2014 5:07 am

Are all the slots filled already? I'm interested in playing.
How are you handling stealth and backstabbing for this game?

Ancient History · Post by **Ancient History** » Mon Aug 25, 2014 9:17 am

Darth Rabbitt wrote:
Ancient History wrote:Which book is this in? There's a note in the PHB that priests of specific mythoi might have different character class options than usual for the race.
Monster Mythology, page 99. The Priest/Thief is also mentioned in the Kuo-Toa entry in the Monstrous Manual.

Right. I'll allow it.

Help me again. SLA?
Spell-like ability. I probably shouldn't use 3e lingo to discuss 2e things.
In chapter 10 of the Complete Book of Elves, under the Drow entry:
Special Advantages wrote:Once per day, all drow can use the spells dancing lights, faerie fire, and darkness. They achieve this through force of will, rather than spell components. A 4th-level drow can cast levitate, know alignment, and detect magic once per day. In addition, drow priests can cast clairvoyance, detect lie, suggestion, and dispel magic once a day.
Emphasis mine.

Right. Nothing specifies that it's the blessings of Lolth or whatever, so I'll allow it.

Oh, no wonder I forgot it the first time, it's not in the PHB equipment list! I can replace it with a spear, or we could assume that Betsy encountered a tree at some point in her life.

We can assume she whittled one.

Are all the slots filled already? I'm interested in playing.

We can probably squeeze in one more, if you can have your character ready soon.

How are you handling stealth and backstabbing for this game?

Mostly judicious adjudication for non-thief players trying to be stealthy. Thieves get Move Silently and Hide in Shadows checks. Backstab has a damage multiplier.

Sirocco · Post by **Sirocco** » Mon Aug 25, 2014 9:28 am

So, without further ado:

Sir Spastis the Virtuous
Lvl 1 Human Paladin

Height: 1,90m (uhh.. 6'3''?)
Weight: 95Kg (210lbs? seriously, what is it with these units?)
Age: 19

Abilities:
CHA 17, STR 16, CON 15, WIS 14, DEX 13, INT 9

Ability modifiers:
Dmg: +1
WgtAlwd: 70
MaxPrs: 195
OpnDrs: 9
BB/LG: 10%
HP: +1
SShk: 90%
ResSurv: 94%
PoisSv: 0
Reg: Nil
Max #henchmen: 10
LoyBase: +6
RctAdj: +6
Bonus Spl: +1 1st lvl (cleric)

HP: 8 + 1 -> 9

THAC0: 20
# of attacks/round: 1, +1 Shield-punch(1d3+1)/Parry(+2 AC w/shield)
2-handed Weapon speed bonus: +3

AC: 3 (from splint mail + shield)

Saving throws:
Prl/Pois/DthM: 14 +2 -> 12
Rod/Stf/Wnd: 16 +2 -> 14
Petr/Poly: 15 +2 -> 13
BrthW: 17 +2 -> 15
Spl: 17 +2 -> 15

Special Notes:
- (Directed) Detect evil 60' 1/round
- +2 to all saving throws
- Immune to disease
- Lay on hands 2hp/level 1/day
- Cure disease 1/week/5 levels
- Protection from Evil 10', continual (-1 to attack rolls of all summoned and specifically evil creatures)
- Dispel (hostile) Magic 10' w/ Holy Avenger, up to PC's level, continual.
- Turn Undead from lv3, 2 lvls lower than cleric.
- Call on war horse (4th lvl)
- Priest spells on lvl 9.
- Limit of 10 magical items (1 armor, 1 shield, 4 weapons, 4 other).
- Cannot retain wealth, all excess must be donated (not to PCs).
- 10% tithe to patron church.
- Attracts no body of followers on 9th level
- Hirelings and henchmen must be of LG alignment.

Proficiencies
Weapon: Longsword, 2-handed sword, Specialization: Sword and Shield style, Specialization: Two-hander style
Nonweapon: Reading/writing (Common), Blind-fighting, Endurance
Languages: Common

Deity: Torm

Starting money: 130
Gear: Leather backpack, Flint and steep, Hooded lantern, Lamp oil (3lbs), 50' of rope, Waterskin (full)
Armor: Splint mail, Small shield
Weapons: Longsword (1d8+1/1d12+1)
Equipment weight: 65lbs
(Total cost: 109 gp, 5sp. Spastis keeps 50sp on his person and donates the rest to the clergy of Torm.)

Backstory to follow (man I hate these things).

Ancient History · Post by **Ancient History** » Mon Aug 25, 2014 9:44 am

Updated first post. When we get character sheets for Hicks, Darth Rabbit, and Ogrebattle's characters, we'll begin.

Sam · Post by **Sam** » Mon Aug 25, 2014 2:10 pm

Sweet. Having a bunch of party members will make up for our lack of hirelings/henchpersons.

Ancient History · Post by **Ancient History** » Mon Aug 25, 2014 3:03 pm

Sirocco: You may have as much or as little backstory as you please.

Dean · Post by **Dean** » Mon Aug 25, 2014 5:10 pm

Crazy idea. Would you quote me a price on a metal block? I had an idea for a cinderblock sized metal block as a piece of adventuring equipment. Any kind of metal will do. Just a big metal block with a hole for tying rope into it like an anchor. Basically the whole thing is just a square anchor. I think one of those, a 50ft rope, and a 10 foot pole would combine to be great dungeon delving gear

Sam · Post by **Sam** » Mon Aug 25, 2014 5:21 pm

Well, two pounds of copper coins is worth 1gp. And four pounds of iron pots (two pots) costs 1gp. Presumably a block of solid iron would be somewhere in that range, depending on how heavy you want it to be. But you can get 50 lbs of whetstones for 1 gp, so you may want to go with a heavy rock if price is an issue.

If you're buying a heavy weight and some rope, you should also grab a block and tackle. Pulleys are like levers, but for rope.

Dean · Post by **Dean** » Mon Aug 25, 2014 6:16 pm

You know since you mention it I do want it to be pretty heavy but since it being square doesn't really matter it occurs to me that I could just get a heavy ball and chain. Thats accomplishing virtually the same thing and its not new or weird. A 50 or 60 lb weight on a chain would do everything I want

Hicks · Post by **Hicks** » Mon Aug 25, 2014 6:28 pm

Xaxus
Lawful Evil Male Human Cleric (of Nerull) 01

"Reap what you sow? I sow death, and I am death's reaper."


Ability	Score	Modifiers
STR	13	Weight Allow: 45; Max Press: 140; Open Doors: 7; BB/LG: 4%
DEX	16	Reaction: +1; Missile Attack: +1; Defense: -2
CON	16	Hit Points: +2; SS: 95%; RS: 96%
INT	12	# of Languages: 3
WIS	14	Bonus Spells: 1st, 1st
CHA	05	Max # of Henchmen: 2; Loyalty Base: -4; Reaction -3


Saves	Target Number
PPD	10
RSW	14
PP	13
Breath	16
Spell	15


Figured Characteristics
Hit dice	1d8+2 (8 HP)
Surprise	3 < 1d10+1
Thac0	20
AC	3 (Chain mail + Dexterity)
Base Movement Rate	12/round (120 yards; 120 feet in combat or dungeon)


Weapon	Attacks/Round	Attack Modifier	Speed	Damage (M)	Damage (L)	Damage Type	Size
Scythe	1/1	+0	8	1d6+1	1d8	S/P	Large
Sling	1/1	+1	6	1d4 (stones)	--	B	Small


Proficiencies	Target Number
Scythe	WEAPON
Sling	WEAPON
Speak native language	NONE
Healing	WIS-2 (+2 to treat or diagnose diseases)
Herbalism	INT-1
Read/Write native language	INT+1


Items	Cost	Weight
Belt	3	-
Soft Boots	1	-
Good Cloth Cloak	0.8	-
Gloves	1	-
Common Robe	0.8	-
Chain Mail	75	40
Scythe	5	8
Sling	0.05	1/10
Holy Symbol	25	-
Whetstone	0.02	1
Chalk	0.01	-
Small Sack	0.05	-
Torch	0.01	1
Wineskin	0.8	3
16 copper


Spell Level	Spells/Day	Spells Prepared
1	3	Bless, Cure Light Wounds, Cause Fear


Level	Rolled HP
1	1d8+2=8

Standard Operating Procedures for Xaxus.

The Scythe is from the Complete Priest's Handbook. Xaxus is pronounced like "Zack-sus"

THIS CHARACTER SHEET IS A WORK IN PROGRESS. I have to go to work shortly, I expect I shall be finished in ~6 hours. ALL DONE!

Ancient History · Post by **Ancient History** » Mon Aug 25, 2014 7:09 pm

Dean wrote:You know since you mention it I do want it to be pretty heavy but since it being square doesn't really matter it occurs to me that I could just get a heavy ball and chain. Thats accomplishing virtually the same thing and its not new or weird. A 50 or 60 lb weight on a chain would do everything I want

Let's see...5 sp for a 2-lb iron pot, so let's say that's a 50% markup on price for the workmanship, jigger the numbers a bit...you can have a weight of wrought iron for 8 copper pieces per pound. Cast iron, steel, or greater workmanship will raise the price a bit.

OgreBattle · Post by **OgreBattle** » Mon Aug 25, 2014 9:43 pm

There's bonus proficiency slots from a high intelligence right? How's that calculated, I think it's related to languages known.
How does large sized weapons/armor work? I'm a minotaur*, so could I be hurling shortswords as daggers?

Guillermo, Neutral Minotaur Swashbuckler Ftr1

Guillermo is a minotaur dressed somewhat like a matador and wears a thrusting sword proudly at his hip. He hails from the not-Spain of this campaign setting, where minotaurs catch humans and stab them to death for sport in maze-like Colosseum.

STR: 20 (+3 hit, +8 damage, weight al.535, max press 700, open doors 17(10) bend/lift 60%
DEX: 11
CON: 17 (+3hp, s.shock97%, Res.s98%)
INT: 12 (3 languages spoken)
WIS: 9
CHA: 7 (3 hench, loyalty -2, reaction -1 to males, +1 towards females)

HP: 14
AC: 3 (-5 from being a minotaur, -2 from Swashbuckling )
THAC0: 16 melee, 19 ranged
-Specialized Melee: 15
-Specialized Ranged: 18
Movement: 12

Minotaur: AC5, Immune to 'Maze', +3 to save vs fear, AC6, +6hp, Mv12, 2d6(headbutt), infravision, +2 to surprise checks, 50% tracking success, Large (can use large/huge weapons)

Swashbuckler: AC improved by 2 when wearing leather or lighter armor. Can select NWP's as Rogue.

Weapon Proficiency
-Rapier Specialization: 3/2(melee) +1hit +2dmg
-Dagger Specialization: RoF3/1(throwing) 3/2(melee) +1hit +2dmg
-Two Weapon style+Ambidextrous: no penalties for two weapon fighting

Non-wep Proficiency
-Tumbling
-Jumping
-Etiquette
-Dancing
-Set Snares
-Tracking

Equipment
-Minotaur scale rapier
-Lots of minotaur scale daggers
-Matador pants
-Adventuring gear (rope, iron spikes, and so on)
-6gp

Ancient History · Post by **Ancient History** » Mon Aug 25, 2014 10:02 pm

...what sourcebooks/magazines/etc. did you use for your character, OB?

There's bonus proficiency slots from a high intelligence right? How's that calculated, I think it's related to languages known.

Table 4 in the PHB:

If the DM allows characters to have proficiencies, this column also indicates the number of extra proficiency slots the character gains due to his Intelligence. These extra proficiency slots can be used however the player desires. The character never needs to spend any proficiency slots to speak his native language.

How does large sized weapons/armor work? I'm a minotaur*, so could I be hurling shortswords as daggers?

I took a gander at it, and all the PHB says is that you can wield weapons up to your own size one-handed, and of one size larger two-handed. I've yet to find any special rules for throwing larger-than-normal weapons except for a fiddly bit about charging with Size M weapons, so I think short-sword-chucking is OK.

OgreBattle · Post by **OgreBattle** » Mon Aug 25, 2014 11:40 pm

Skills & Powers (minotaur race) and PHB (Fighter class).

Ancient History · Post by **Ancient History** » Mon Aug 25, 2014 11:51 pm

Vergoot. Don't forget alignment.