Something Simple

[Cynic]

Funny dice can be hard on them? It's a d6 with 3 numbers/symbols applied twice. "+" "-" and "0"

So take a d6 and make the 1 and 2 +, 3 and 4 -, and 5 and 6 = 0.

See done. Just fucking read the rules and then make a decision. You don't need the entire system, you just need the very simplest rudiments.

[spaceLem]

Risus.

6 pages of free, dead easy rules, half of them optional, and a non-free (but inexpensive and totally worthwhile) 60 page companion containing excellent roleplaying advice, both system and non-system specific. It uses 1-6 d6s, with rules for polyhedrals if you prefer. No toughness rolls, combat is fast.

There are also many conversions of Risus on the Internet to suit your preferred genre (e.g. Hawkmoor, if you can find it).

[Atmo]

Well, finally i can say we choose some games.

Me: i'll wait for OVA Revised, it's only 7 days away, hope that scenario gets funded, too.

Player1: Savage Worlds. He liked the "feel of adventure of 80's", or something like that.

Player2: He said that would paly M&M, but didn't even read the damn book...

Player3: OldDragon and D&D 4e. He is going to another group, of course, so i called to tell him that Mabinogi and Tibia would be more fun than that.

Thank you guys who helped till now, it was very didactic.

[silva]

Player3: OldDragon and D&D 4e. He is going to another group, of course, so i called to tell him that Mabinogi and Tibia would be more fun than that.

Why didnt you suggested Tormenta to him ?

[jdrakeh]

There are also many conversions of Risus on the Internet to suit your preferred genre (e.g. Hawkmoor, if you can find it).

Hawkmoor became somewhat scarce when my web host disappeared last year. You can currently find it on Scribd or via direct download from Mediafire, here. Enjoy!

[Atmo]

Why didnt you suggested Tormenta to him ?

Because we all know that Tormenta is SHIT.

[Atmo]

Well, here i am again to spill some news about the choices.

D&D4e: Player2 didn't even got those books, and i didn't wanted to go after eiter.

Savage Worlds: Slow and boring, my ideas didn't fit the system.

OldDragon: Totally forgot about that, then when i got to read the playtest book... it's really old and AD&D. Just no.

M&M: Wasted my time creating sheets and listening "its wrong" everytime i showed to a veteran in this system. Then i got to the ATT and some crazy fan (after various posts of discussion and quasi-flame) yelled: "then just go play something else, you are too dumb to play M&M!" Hell, this system isn't good and the fans are retarded as Narutards.

Risus: Tryed in the past, no good memories from it.

Finally, i bought Megacity and nothing has changed. I'm thinking in looking for True20 things again, but my library is already full of things i won't use.

[fectin]

What was the problem with Savage Worlds? I'm not disagreeing, but "slow and boring" is an unusual criticism.

You might look at Fate, at least. It's "pay what you like", so you could get the pdf for a dollar to check it out, then chip in more later if you do like it. http://www.faterpg.com/. I haven't opened it yet, but the book is snazzy, and many people seem to like it.

You could also possible consider Hollow Earth Expedition (http://www.exilegames.com/games/hex.html). The Ubiquity system is a bit weird and has the usual exploits, but overall it doesn't suck. I haven't actually played HEX, but Leagues of Adventure runs in basically the same system.

edit - those are suggestions for where to look, not of things to buy. Apparently, you're picky on games.

[Atmo]

What was the problem with Savage Worlds? I'm not disagreeing, but "slow and boring" is an unusual criticism.

You might look at Fate, at least. It's "pay what you like", so you could get the pdf for a dollar to check it out, then chip in more later if you do like it. http://www.faterpg.com/. I haven't opened it yet, but the book is snazzy, and many people seem to like it.

You could also possible consider Hollow Earth Expedition (http://www.exilegames.com/games/hex.html). The Ubiquity system is a bit weird and has the usual exploits, but overall it doesn't suck. I haven't actually played HEX, but Leagues of Adventure runs in basically the same system.

edit - those are suggestions for where to look, not of things to buy. Apparently, you're picky on games.

The dice mechanic was too strange for us who are used to only one dice and the like. And, of course, SW have Toughness checks: my good nature turned into a berserker drowzy confused nature when things started to go wrong... bad memories.

We don't have so much money to spend with RPG (priorities, you know? snacks come first) so i'll have to ask some pirates to make this search.

Butt, i got my eyes in a strange game: 13th Age. I've done a sheet with a character (Marisa Kirisame) to practice what i have read and... probably a good find. Yes, i'm talking for myself, as Player1 and Player2 don't know about 13th Age.

[JigokuBosatsu]

FATAL?

[Username17]

What was the problem with Savage Worlds? I'm not disagreeing, but "slow and boring" is an unusual criticism.

It should be. For all that Savage Worlds flavor text demands that you hurry up and have fun all the time, the actual action resolution requires you to roll different sized dice depending on what you're trying to do and has dice explosions and has variable target numbers. It's like a perfect storm of every single thing that slows down "roll to see if you succeed".

-Username17

[nockermensch]

What was the problem with Savage Worlds? I'm not disagreeing, but "slow and boring" is an unusual criticism.

It should be. For all that Savage Worlds flavor text demands that you hurry up and have fun all the time, the actual action resolution requires you to roll different sized dice depending on what you're trying to do and has dice explosions and has variable target numbers. It's like a perfect storm of every single thing that slows down "roll to see if you succeed".

-Username17

There's a site that allows you to test savage worlds builds in melee combat. I made a "duelist" build when testing the game and had it run 1000 simulated mirror matches. The average fight's duration was 29 rounds.

[Prak]

M&M: Wasted my time creating sheets and listening "its wrong" everytime i showed to a veteran in this system. Then i got to the ATT and some crazy fan (after various posts of discussion and quasi-flame) yelled: "then just go play something else, you are too dumb to play M&M!" Hell, this system isn't good and the fans are retarded as Narutards.

Wow, what a prick. I personally really like M&M, though I keep wanting to tweak little pieces of it, like add wealth of some sort, use damage dice, etc. It can be tricky to get it working right, but if you wanted to give it another shot, I can point you in the direction of an Excel built character sheet which auto-calculates everything for you.

Hell, I'm pretty sure it'd take me a try or two to get back into the order of operations for character creation if I went to play it again. But it's my suggestion just for versatility.

FATAL?

He said simple. ...though I do still want to playtest that just to see how deep the rabbit hole of terrible goes.

[Leress]

How about EABAnywhere? It's only 8 pages long.

http://www.btrc.net/eabanywhere

[Atmo]

M&M: Wasted my time creating sheets and listening "its wrong" everytime i showed to a veteran in this system. Then i got to the ATT and some crazy fan (after various posts of discussion and quasi-flame) yelled: "then just go play something else, you are too dumb to play M&M!" Hell, this system isn't good and the fans are retarded as Narutards.

Wow, what a prick. I personally really like M&M, though I keep wanting to tweak little pieces of it, like add wealth of some sort, use damage dice, etc. It can be tricky to get it working right, but if you wanted to give it another shot, I can point you in the direction of an Excel built character sheet which auto-calculates everything for you.

Hell, I'm pretty sure it'd take me a try or two to get back into the order of operations for character creation if I went to play it again. But it's my suggestion just for versatility.

Take a look.

Ah, i forgot to elucidate something: Toughness checks. Other one: its a system to Supers, nothing more.

And no, i don't play supers.

Well, that's something EVERYONE who plays M&M here at the forum says, that it can emulate EVERYTHING and it will be always WONDERFULL. If someone sells that their game is something it doesn't, then why have all the work to give false information?

I am going to be blunt. Why are you playing a Super Hero role playing game if you don't play supers? How about playing something that is more to your taste, instead of trying to force a game to be something it not only isn't, but never claimed to be, and then complaining when it doesn't work how you want it.

https://atomicthinktank.com/viewtopic.p ... 9#p1148849

No, i don't want to touch it again. If you are talking about Skillgen, then i already did used it.

How about EABAnywhere? It's only 8 pages long.

http://www.btrc.net/eabanywhere

Probably Player2 can enjoy it, but i feel a strong Risus vibe from it. Maybe i can play it...

There's a site that allows you to test savage worlds builds in melee combat. I made a "duelist" build when testing the game and had it run 1000 simulated mirror matches. The average fight's duration was 29 rounds.

...is it a good or bad thing on SW standards? For anything else, its too damn long.

[Prak]

Ski's Chargen, yeah.

M&M is primarily for supers, yes. It's also really flexible, though, which is nice. But it is founded on some very Super-centric things, like episodic games and a more or less lack of actual character advancement. I'd be interested in what you don't like about supers, but that's another thread. I fuckinging hated Toughness too. The Mastermind's Manual is basically M&M's answer to Unearthed Arcana, having a ton of variant rules.

As for 3e, I never played M&M 3e, so I couldn't say much about it. I enjoyed 2e. For Toughness, you can swap out to a hp and damage system relatively easily.

But, all that said, yeah, not likely the system you're looking for here.

How do your players feel about BESM?

[darkmaster]

Having read though that particular thread I only saw minor mistakes being pointed out, and no flame what so ever, maybe just a bad example whatever. Anyway, M&M is super flexible like Prak said most of the splats for 2e, for example, was stuff to make different comic book styles happen.

But at the moment I'm running a PL 15 game where Metaknight teams up with a magical girl, a warlock, a comic book style hero of justice, a woman who turns into a cat-woman-beast and treats catnip like PCP (who happens to actually be an alien cat who was turned into a human), a panther who is secretly the king of a distant planet, and a cuddly kitten assassin against the forces of Nightmare in a war spanning the universe.

Before that I did a straight fantasy game.

I have a 1x1 going with one of my favoritest people that's a somewhat realistic 18th century earth that happens to be about a family dimigods who battle all kinds of crazy stuff. Ninjas, and fae, and gods, n' ah'.

[Atmo]

Ski's Chargen, yeah.

M&M is primarily for supers, yes. It's also really flexible, though, which is nice. But it is founded on some very Super-centric things, like episodic games and a more or less lack of actual character advancement. I'd be interested in what you don't like about supers, but that's another thread. I fuckinging hated Toughness too. The Mastermind's Manual is basically M&M's answer to Unearthed Arcana, having a ton of variant rules.

As for 3e, I never played M&M 3e, so I couldn't say much about it. I enjoyed 2e. For Toughness, you can swap out to a hp and damage system relatively easily.

But, all that said, yeah, not likely the system you're looking for here.

How do your players feel about BESM?

They don't know it exists, probably because some people arguing about BESM d20 (with a "that shit" as a sufix). I've already did some tests in the past, here.

[Prak]

I think I played it all of once. I recall it working ok, but the only reason I'd see to use it over M&M2 is the vast array of sourcebooks. And those sourcebooks could all be translated to M&M2 easily enough.

Perhaps more important is the question "What kind of game do you want to run?"

[Atmo]

Perhaps more important is the question "What kind of game do you want to run?"

Something i always forget to clarify. I like fantasy stories were characters can use magic with a good chance, where magic isn't the villian of the story and technology and magic can coexist. I could name Star Ocean, Night Wizard, Final Fantasy, Ichiban Ushiro no Daimaou, and more as my inspirations (Touhou is another case, and Yozora Quartet is looking prettier every day i watch).

[Prak]

Ok, here are the systems I would suggest based on what you want to play, but not necessarily your OP criteria:

• Mutants and Masterminds 2nd: I know you don't like western supers, so just ignore the spandex in the art. M&M is fluff agnostic, that r4 Blast could be arcane gestures conjuring fire, or it could be a cybernetic hand with concealed blaster. There are example templates, but there's nothing stopping someone from being, say, a cyborg knight with armour, mono-filament sword and tome of eldritch spells.
• Gurps: From what I've seen and heard, it "can do anything." It is not, however, simple. It's point buy like BESM or M&M, and has tons and tons of sourcebooks for everything from magic to technomancy to vikings to goblins, Illuminati University, Werewolf the Apocalypse (seriously!) and, well, fuck.
• Basic Roleplaying: See the above two items. It's again point buy, but it's not simple. I played it once, and it worked ok because I was familiar with the basic system (same as Runequest). But I absolutely hate Runequest, and if you're not familiar with it, I think this would just frustrate you. The advantage is that magic is not tied to a character type, you just go learn it, and it doesn't really matter if, up to that point, you had only ever swung a sword.
• Rifts: Oh god, Rifts(/Palladium) is terrible. But it's also a lot of fun with the right group. It is not balanced (Dragon and Juicer and vagabond all in the same party! YEAH!). It is... nominally simple- the skills are percentile, but if I recall correctly, everything else is basically d20+mods v. target number. If you're familiar with d20, you can adjust to Rifts with little trouble. Tech and Magic coexist in Rifts, but it's difficult to have a magician with cyberware, IIRC. I would personally suggest saying to hell with metaplots, and just run a game set in Tolkeen as a "City of Adventure!!!" Like GURPS, it has a lot of sourcebooks, and pretty much everything Palladium is compatible.

  The main draw of Rifts is that the setting all but says "you can play absolutely anything your pointed little head desires." It has books for Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, Nightspawn, Robotech, and lots of other things. When I played, I played an Endbringer, a transformer, and a goatman. People around me played the farmer from Harvest Moon, elves, various types of aliens, and the like.

• BESM: but not BESM d20. BESM d20 is pointless, BESM works if the MC makes sure no one makes "Thermite Helmet Man" (power which converts damage into power points, plus continuous damage item), or filters their points through construct, minions, and item of power.

Most of your game stipulations are going to be setting things, rather than system. Hell, you *could* just use D&D with future tech added.

[Atmo]

Ok, here are the systems I would suggest based on what you want to play, but not necessarily your OP criteria:

• Mutants and Masterminds 2nd: I know you don't like western supers, so just ignore the spandex in the art. M&M is fluff agnostic, that r4 Blast could be arcane gestures conjuring fire, or it could be a cybernetic hand with concealed blaster. There are example templates, but there's nothing stopping someone from being, say, a cyborg knight with armour, mono-filament sword and tome of eldritch spells.
• Gurps: From what I've seen and heard, it "can do anything." It is not, however, simple. It's point buy like BESM or M&M, and has tons and tons of sourcebooks for everything from magic to technomancy to vikings to goblins, Illuminati University, Werewolf the Apocalypse (seriously!) and, well, fuck.
• Basic Roleplaying: See the above two items. It's again point buy, but it's not simple. I played it once, and it worked ok because I was familiar with the basic system (same as Runequest). But I absolutely hate Runequest, and if you're not familiar with it, I think this would just frustrate you. The advantage is that magic is not tied to a character type, you just go learn it, and it doesn't really matter if, up to that point, you had only ever swung a sword.
• Rifts: Oh god, Rifts(/Palladium) is terrible. But it's also a lot of fun with the right group. It is not balanced (Dragon and Juicer and vagabond all in the same party! YEAH!). It is... nominally simple- the skills are percentile, but if I recall correctly, everything else is basically d20+mods v. target number. If you're familiar with d20, you can adjust to Rifts with little trouble. Tech and Magic coexist in Rifts, but it's difficult to have a magician with cyberware, IIRC. I would personally suggest saying to hell with metaplots, and just run a game set in Tolkeen as a "City of Adventure!!!" Like GURPS, it has a lot of sourcebooks, and pretty much everything Palladium is compatible.

  The main draw of Rifts is that the setting all but says "you can play absolutely anything your pointed little head desires." It has books for Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, Nightspawn, Robotech, and lots of other things. When I played, I played an Endbringer, a transformer, and a goatman. People around me played the farmer from Harvest Moon, elves, various types of aliens, and the like.

• BESM: but not BESM d20. BESM d20 is pointless, BESM works if the MC makes sure no one makes "Thermite Helmet Man" (power which converts damage into power points, plus continuous damage item), or filters their points through construct, minions, and item of power.

Most of your game stipulations are going to be setting things, rather than system. Hell, you *could* just use D&D with future tech added.

For what i can tell, i will give a try on these. D&D is in the past, finally.