The Shadowrun Situation

[Orion]

So, Caldazar says coming here is a "task" and an "assignment". I'm assuming he's speaking figuratively. Is anyone over there destructively paranoid enough to actually send goons here?

[Ancient History]

I promised myself I wouldn't do this, but I do hate to see people maligned unfairly. In answer to some questions here:

The Corruption master story arc document dates back to at least 2008 - at least, that's what my copy says from when Randall Bills sent it to me back in the day.

It is an old, superseded document that is of zero value; vociferous arguments by several people have caused the plot and plans in that document to be abandoned and new versions were drafts. I should know, because I drafted the last one.

Jennifer Harding and David Stansel Garner had nothing to do with the writing of that document. As far as I know the original material was provided by Loren L. Coleman and polished slightly by then-line developer Peter Taylor. It was the first of many revisions.

The Corruption mastery story arc was sent out to, at least, a dozen different freelancers and developers, and I'm fairly sure it was posted on basecamp for a while, so it was readily accessible to a number of people, several of whom (like myself) had no NDA in place.

I can't tell you who uploaded it, but I'm going to guess it wasn't Frank because I'm the one that pointed it out to Frank. Zeuvembie had previously uploaded my unpublished drafts to Scribd and I like to check up on them and see how they're doing.

So to sum up: the document is of zero value. It's been accessed by apparently less than 300 people. There is no way to tell who uploaded it, since it could be anybody, and there's a good chance that whoever did upload it had no legal restrictions on doing so anyway. There's no indication that Jennifer Harding or David Stansel-Garner or even Frank Trollman were involved in any way.

[A Man In Black]

So far, his record for being correct on his assumptions and statements of fact has proved to be unfounded and wrong. Just like everyone else, that has opined about the future of Shadowrun and CGL. However, none of you (speaking metaphorically here) will be satisfied unless Coleman is in prison, CGL destroyed, and all others who are involved are destitute and bankrupt. However, wish in one hand and crap in the other. See which one will fill up first. CGL will not collapse, lawsuit or not.

This is basically all Caldazar has.

"Some unspecified people here have it in for CGL. I'm not making any accusations, because I have no evidence whatsofuckingever, but some of the people responsible are EEEEEEEEVIL!"

Please take your empty implications and cram them into whatever orifice is most uncomfortable.

[Kaelik]

FYI Caldazar, your hilarious use of progressive as an insult aside.

One of those people harassing Jennifer Harding was Bull, who in addition to being a Dumpshock Moderator is also employed by Catalyst.

So yes, Catalyst employees were involved in the harassment.

[Caldazar]

So to sum up: the document is of zero value. It's been accessed by apparently less than 300 people. There is no way to tell who uploaded it, since it could be anybody, and there's a good chance that whoever did upload it had no legal restrictions on doing so anyway.

Topps and CGL strongly disagree with you. They are acting to protect their interests in the most expedient manner.

There's no indication that Jennifer Harding or David Stansel-Garner or even Frank Trollman were involved in any way.

The preponderance of the evidence so far does not agree with your assertion.

[Kaelik]

Topps and CGL strongly disagree with you. They are acting to protect their interests in the most expedient manner.

Do you have any evidence of that?

The preponderance of the evidence so far does not agree with your assertion.

What exactly is the preponderance of zero? You have presented no evidence whatsoever. In fact, there is actually evidence that it is not the case, IE someone who actually knows something saying right here that they pointed it out to Frank.

[Username17]

Topps certainly hasn't sent me any cease and desist letters. Nor would they have any standing to do so, as they don't have an NDA for me. Nor would an NDA that I did sign make any fucking difference considering that I stopped writing for CGL in 2007 in order to go to medical school, and Loren Coleman penned The Corruption in 2008. No contract I could have signed would be enforceable to prevent me from disparaging events that began after I quit.

Caldazar simply lacks any credibility at all. Most of his tirades lack any specific claims at all, and those claims he does make are provably wrong. I like how he keeps conflating me, Frank Trollman, medical student and ex-freelance writer, with Frank Tillman, Battletech Playtester. Or how he keeps accusing Jenifer Harding of having written The Corruption, when in reality she was at that time a minor freelance writer, just back from penning part of the Los Angeles section in Corporate Enclaves at the time - certainly in no position to write an entire Master Plot Arc to set development goals for a long list of books and roleplaying supplements.

No one over here as broken any laws, flagrantly, fragrantly, or otherwise. Caldazar is simply a nut case.

-Username17

[DragonChild]

I like how he keeps conflating me, Frank Trollman, medical student and ex-freelance writer, with Frank Tillman, Battletech Playtester.

And here I thought that was just a repeated typo. Wow. That kinda shoots his credibility to hell.

[Ancient History]

So to sum up: the document is of zero value. It's been accessed by apparently less than 300 people. There is no way to tell who uploaded it, since it could be anybody, and there's a good chance that whoever did upload it had no legal restrictions on doing so anyway.

Topps and CGL strongly disagree with you. They are acting to protect their interests in the most expedient manner.

That's a rather blatant falsehood, as evidenced by...nothing has happened. I don't think Topps or CGL are even aware of the document you've got such a hard-on about. Hell, they haven't done anything about the real, actual copyright violations up on Scribd, like the entire Nosferatu novel.

There's no indication that Jennifer Harding or David Stansel-Garner or even Frank Trollman were involved in any way.

The preponderance of the evidence so far does not agree with your assertion.

What "evidence?" Dude, I don't know about you but I was there at the time this doc was being written. I still have the email Randall Bills sent to me! Fuck, I was the one that wrote the final revision and gave the last bit of polish to this turd. Jennifer Harding and DSG never touched this draft, and I'm not even they had access to it or knew that it existed. Frank was gone by the time it was written.

[Kaelik]

I like how he keeps conflating me, Frank Trollman, medical student and ex-freelance writer, with Frank Tillman, Battletech Playtester.

I thought he was just really really bad at insults. So bad that he actually did worse than just saying your name normally but with an obvious sneer.

But it turns out he's retarded.

Although, I can't help but feel sorry for Frank Tillman in all this. He doesn't even get an awesome name, but he apparently still gets rabid fanbois hunting him down to insult him over stuff that has nothing to do with him.

[Fuchs]

If (and that's a big if, since I do not think anyone sane there cares) Topps and CGL really consider anything in this "Corruption Master" drivel worth of being protected they're more out of it than I thought.

[Caldazar]

Topps certainly hasn't sent me any cease and desist letters. Nor would they have any standing to do so, as they don't have an NDA for me. Nor would an NDA that I did sign make any fucking difference considering that I stopped writing for CGL in 2007 in order to go to medical school, and Loren Coleman penned The Corruption in 2008. No contract I could have signed would be enforceable to prevent me from disparaging events that began after I quit.

Let me correct you Trollman, Peter Taylor former Line Director penned that form, not Loren Coleman. Your facts, as usual, are incorrect.

Regardless of whether or not you signed an NDA or believe you are no longer bound by a contract or whatever form you want to talk about, being involved in or being complicit in the release of confidential proprietary information governed and protected by NDA, is illegal, period.

Or how he keeps accusing Jenifer Harding of having written The Corruption, when in reality she was at that time a minor freelance writer, just back from penning part of the Los Angeles section in Corporate Enclaves at the time - certainly in no position to write an entire Master Plot Arc to set development goals for a long list of books and roleplaying supplements.

Again, you are incorrect. Jennifer Harding and a few other Shadowrun writers had a major hand in said document as they worked hand in hand with Peter Taylor, the line director at that time. My information on this is clear, impeccable, and unimpeachable.

No one over here as broken any laws, flagrantly, fragrantly, or otherwise. Caldazar is simply a nut case.

So says the man who released confidential material after receiving it from an owner and a few disgruntled former employees. Moreover, for me being a nutcase? Coming from you Trollman, I will take that as a compliment.

Oh, just so you understand, I know who Frank Tillman is. He would never sully his hands in the manner you have. You on the other hand, have. It is you I have questioned and challenged to present proof of not being involved. However, since this is the second time that you have spoken up and as of yet not denied involvement, indicates you are involved.

My task is complete. I shall put forward my information to those concerned.

[DragonChild]

It is you I have questioned and challenged to present proof of not being involved.

Let's check with Morbo here. Morbo?

BURDEN OF PROOF DOES NOT WORK THAT WAY!

Thanks, Morbo.

[BishopMcQ]

As a small note, to remove anything from Scribd, all Topps or CGL has to do is send a form letter to the website. The text of the form letter is on the site, and it was something I did for CGL while working for them as a Production Manager. The form letter was in their file archive when I left the company.

That said, the "Corruption" plot line was discarded for the most part by the time the writing for the Dawn of the Artifacts adventure series began, and the events described therein are not what was used when writing the sequel to the DotA arc.

[Fuchs]

I trust Ancient History far more than some anonymus troll who can't even provide proof for any of his ramblings.

[Caldazar]

That's a rather blatant falsehood, as evidenced by...nothing has happened. I don't think Topps or CGL are even aware of the document you've got such a hard-on about. Hell, they haven't done anything about the real, actual copyright violations up on Scribd, like the entire Nosferatu novel.

Is it? Do you believe that I would involve myself in this garbage if that were not the case? Your sources in the writer’s stable are unaware of what is going on. You are wrong and have no leg to stand on when it comes to what CGL / Topps are concerned about. You had better realize that up to this point, CGL / Topps have remained quiet and passive. With the release of the Corruption document, all has changed. Those responsible are in some serious trouble.

What "evidence?" Dude, I don't know about you but I was there at the time this doc was being written. I still have the email Randall Bills sent to me! Fuck, I was the one that wrote the final revision and gave the last bit of polish to this turd. Jennifer Harding and DSG never touched this draft, and I'm not even they had access to it or knew that it existed. Frank was gone by the time it was written.

Ah, is there an admission of complicity in this I am reading from you? You stated earlier that it was “you” that pointed out this document to Trollman. Your bombastic diatribes on Dumpshock concerning CGL and most importantly, Jason Hardy are well documented. Especially when you released correspondence between you and Mr. Bills. What do you have to say in rebuttal?

As for your ascertain that Jennifer Harding had not access or any part of the document, you are uninformed as to her extent of involvement. A lot of leaked information after this situation came to light has been tracked to a few people, especially the case of the Corruption document. Will your fingerprints be found on it too?

[Caldazar]

As a small note, to remove anything from Scribd, all Topps or CGL has to do is send a form letter to the website. The text of the form letter is on the site, and it was something I did for CGL while working for them as a Production Manager. The form letter was in their file archive when I left the company.

That said, the "Corruption" plot line was discarded for the most part by the time the writing for the Dawn of the Artifacts adventure series began, and the events described therein are not what was used when writing the sequel to the DotA arc.

You expect me to trust the word of a person who broke faith with CGL leaving to work for a company started by the very same people who are trying to force CGL into insolvency? I think not. You sir, cannot be trusted to speak the truth or be depended on to be truthful as far as I am concerned. Sandstorm’s actions and rumormongering at GenCon were duly noted. Especially in light of the release of said documentation.

[BishopMcQ]

Caldazar--I suggest that you speak with Jason Hardy about my actions and "rumor-mongering." He has gone on record supporting my choice to leave and choice to stay silent on all matters.

Also, none of the owners of my company are involved in any way with any legal action taken against CGL or Topps.

But since, you are questioning whether my statement is true or not, you can ask Randall Bills if I submitted a Cease and Desist to Scribd to remove several Shadowrun and BattleTech PDFs. You can also go to: http://support.scribd.com/forums/33563/entries/22980 to see the form letter on the Scribd website for the removal of documents. That page is a direct link from this page: http://www.scribd.com/copyright

[souran]

My task is complete. I shall put forward my information to those concerned.

I find this statement amazingly funny. I mean, I don't play shadowrun and honestly am only intreested in this covnersation as it applies to the industry as a whole. It appears that Frank has not always had total graps of the situation or sometimes has not accuretly reported their implications.

However, when you consider that Mr. Trollman is a medical student and he was doing the jobs of reporter, lawyer, and industry analyst all at once and that Ancient History et. al have come here and offered only mild corrections of details and not alternate versions of events he has apprently done a pretty decent job.

However, Mr. Caldazar I have to wonder what in the WORLD your task was, and how after writting a half dozen meandering crazed factless posts you can call your task done.

was your task to badly fail at a drive by character assassination? Was your task to get everybody thinking about how much we think Loren Coleman is a scumbag thief again? Was your task to further blame a victim of sexual harrassment?

Hell the mere fact that you willing post that you had a task here to complete makes it seem like your posts are nothing other than corporate hate posts.

Maybe I am just to the point where I believe ANY tale of corporate malfiesance as true, but you sir do not do your cause any justice.

You storm in here, pompus, without knowledge or facts, and overflowing with obvious and misdirected hate. You seriously think that what frank is doing is WORSE than Coleman stealing so much money that his company can't make its own fucking product for months at a time? If you are a shadowrun fan and actually believe that then you are just stupid.

However, having gone through all your posts its like a huge dose of inchoherent crazy every time you try and argue your position. It doesn't even make any sense its just angry.

However, it is funny as hell. Its like a Steve Carrel character or a space alien its so obtuse. I mean seriously, your task is complete? You are forwarding information to those concerned?

Do you happen to know a hawk from a handsaw when the wind is sutherly? Do you need Frank to chose a second and give you a time that you might have satisfaction?

All I have left to say is "Gooday, Sir." I will respond no further because I have said "GOODAY."

[Ancient History]

That's a rather blatant falsehood, as evidenced by...nothing has happened. I don't think Topps or CGL are even aware of the document you've got such a hard-on about. Hell, they haven't done anything about the real, actual copyright violations up on Scribd, like the entire Nosferatu novel.

Is it? Do you believe that I would involve myself in this garbage if that were not the case?

Quite honestly, yes. You strike me as exactly the type of person to spout off without knowing what the hell you're talking about.

Your sources in the writer’s stable are unaware of what is going on. You are wrong and have no leg to stand on when it comes to what CGL / Topps are concerned about. You had better realize that up to this point, CGL / Topps have remained quiet and passive. With the release of the Corruption document, all has changed. Those responsible are in some serious trouble.

My "sources" are few and far between these days, as the better part of my friends don't choose to work for CGL and those that continue to do so I don't bother for paltry bullshit. If CGL or Topps wanted to contend with copyright infringement on Scribd, it's really simple and they obviously haven't done it yet. Or else you wouldn't still be able to find this or this.

What "evidence?" Dude, I don't know about you but I was there at the time this doc was being written. I still have the email Randall Bills sent to me! Fuck, I was the one that wrote the final revision and gave the last bit of polish to this turd. Jennifer Harding and DSG never touched this draft, and I'm not even they had access to it or knew that it existed. Frank was gone by the time it was written.

Ah, is there an admission of complicity in this I am reading from you? You stated earlier that it was “you” that pointed out this document to Trollman. Your bombastic diatribes on Dumpshock concerning CGL and most importantly, Jason Hardy are well documented. Especially when you released correspondence between you and Mr. Bills. What do you have to say in rebuttal?

Zeuvembie has posted a healthy chunk of my documents to Scribd too. I check up on them from time to time, and in this specific case somebody forwarded the link to me from somewhere on RPG.net, and I showed it to Frank. Jason doesn't come into this, since he wasn't even involved in the project - you'd probably have to sit him down and explain to him what the Corruption plot was, I doubt he's seen it. As for Bills - yes, on rare occasion and validate a point I have copy/pasted some emails for public consumption, as is my right. They are, after all, my emails and not proprietary corporate property.

As for your ascertain that Jennifer Harding had not access or any part of the document, you are uninformed as to her extent of involvement. A lot of leaked information after this situation came to light has been tracked to a few people, especially the case of the Corruption document. Will your fingerprints be found on it too?

What are you smoking? Have you read this thing? Loren came up with the initial (bad) idea, which was polished by Peter and Rob. We hadn't even settled on the artifacts yet, and I know that because I was the one that wrote 'em up. Jen was one of the 24 respondents on Randall Bill's solicitation when this doc went out. You want to try tracking who leaked a document after sending it out to 24 people? Good luck on that, mate.

[Maxus]

Caldazar's suffering from Conservative Delusion Syndrome.

It affects some conservatives because they can't actually reconcile the differences of their worldview with reality. So they find a way to persuade themselves about others' actions and motivations which they feel comfortable with. This often goes to wholesale making shit up.

Not uncommonly, people who suffer from this delusion affect superiority to others (because of course they are BETTER, can't you see, BETTER, than those FOOLS who blind themselves to the TRUTH and who dare to DISRESPECT, yes, DISRESPECT etc. etc.), including using overly formal language and acting like this is Serious Business. One who I have the acquaintance of, once said "Because anything online can be found out, I will disclose more to you in person."

This is a perfectly natural reaction to being unable to accept that reality has a liberal bias. and anyone who suffers from it should be pitied and treated kindly.

[Psychic Robot]

MY SHILL SENSE IS TINGLING.

[Ganbare Gincun]

Did he really use the word "balderdash"? Seriously?

[TheFlatline]

My purpose for joining and posting here is not the actions of Coleman, CGL, or anyone associated with the company. My purpose concerns the flagrant and illegal release of confidential proprietary information by an individual with close intimate ties to individuals who seek to undermine and discredit CGL in order to cause them to lose the licenses for Shadowrun and BattleTech for their own personal gain. You and the rest who want to attempt to derail the discussion may attempt to do so; however, I will continue to seek the information my task requires. That said, let me answer some of your outlandish claims.

You know, this post reads so much more entertainingly when I hum The Battle Hymn of the Republic while I read it.

[Kaelik]

However, since this is the second time that you have spoken up and as of yet not denied involvement, indicates you are involved.

Every time you say something like this, you sound even stupider than the time before. That someone doesn't address all your accusations doesn't mean that they are true.

Every time Frank corrects you, you turn around and call him a liar, if he wasted his time with your stupid accusations, you would just claim he was lying then too.

@souran, it seems pretty obvious to me this person is too stupid to even hold a job at CGL, he's probably just a free lacky that does it just because Loren Coleman is his hero.