Hey fuckers, can you keep your shit where it belongs?

Mundane & Pointless Stuff I Must Share: The Off Topic Forum

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Lago PARANOIA
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Post by Lago PARANOIA »

Red Rob: Regarding that image macro, that is exactly the kind of shit I am talking about. What is with that weird baiting? :(
Josh Kablack wrote:Your freedom to make rulings up on the fly is in direct conflict with my freedom to interact with an internally consistent narrative. Your freedom to run/play a game without needing to understand a complex rule system is in direct conflict with my freedom to play a character whose abilities and flaws function as I intended within that ruleset. Your freedom to add and change rules in the middle of the game is in direct conflict with my ability to understand that rules system before I decided whether or not to join your game.

In short, your entire post is dismissive of not merely my intelligence, but my agency. And I don't mean agency as a player within one of your games, I mean my agency as a person. You do not want me to be informed when I make the fundamental decisions of deciding whether to join your game or buying your rules system.
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Post by Red_Rob »

I don't get your meaning. You're surprised people on 4Chan spend their time being dicks to each other? Thats pretty much all 4Chan is.

Huh. I see what you mean about this place getting dangerously close.
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Post by Maj »

Lago wrote:So from now on, I Lago will hereby relinquish from any personal attacks or insults directed at another poster.
Personally, I prefer to let people make asses out of themselves. Nothing is more effective in a public debate than a well-documented, calm, rational answer at making someone who's totally talking out of their ass look like a moronic fool. The bonus is that it's also more convincing to people on the sidelines who are actually interested in choosing a side to be on.
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Lago PARANOIA
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Post by Lago PARANOIA »

I meant to say that I don't want this place to become where the purpose gets squeezed out because of the assholishness and hostility.

mean_liar said that people won't come to this board because we're assholes. I believe him. And while I hope that the TGD will always have some degree of biliousness and brusqueness to it, I'm hoping that it won't prevent us from growing the pie higher.
Josh Kablack wrote:Your freedom to make rulings up on the fly is in direct conflict with my freedom to interact with an internally consistent narrative. Your freedom to run/play a game without needing to understand a complex rule system is in direct conflict with my freedom to play a character whose abilities and flaws function as I intended within that ruleset. Your freedom to add and change rules in the middle of the game is in direct conflict with my ability to understand that rules system before I decided whether or not to join your game.

In short, your entire post is dismissive of not merely my intelligence, but my agency. And I don't mean agency as a player within one of your games, I mean my agency as a person. You do not want me to be informed when I make the fundamental decisions of deciding whether to join your game or buying your rules system.
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Post by Nicklance »

I don't like sterile, clean and pure white environments. This feels just like home.
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Post by MGuy »

I'd prefer that more civility is shown not for my own tastes but for the community as a whole. I, when I first visited these boards, got accused of being elennsar and, if not for certain posters taking time to clearly explain how I knew absolutely nothing about the game I would have never come back and not had a second thought about it. Playground or no I think this place is very valuable.

The fact that we have people like Frank, K, Lago, etc are HERE to give GOOD and FREE advice on one of my most favorite of hobbies is an important and indispensable teaching tool. I can hardly fathom how better off the hobby would be if the works of some of the people here would be mainstream, if the Trollman brand had as much clout as Gygax in the hobby. So if for no other reason I think that we should try and behave ourselves for the role playing community at large.

-Side Note- I don't care personally about shouting matches as long as they are properly and clearly explained ones. I like Frank's posting style because though he can be stubborn about giving ground in an argument at the very least he slaps some reasoning behind his angry fist waving. Dropping into a thread just to say "Hur hur, this is retarded" is just trolling. Its not punishing anyone for doing it, its just becoming one.
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Count Arioch the 28th
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Post by Count Arioch the 28th »

MGuy wrote:. I, when I first visited these boards, got accused of being elennsar and, if not for certain posters taking time to clearly explain how I knew absolutely nothing about the game I would have never come back and not had a second thought about it.
Yeah, I think that's a big problem.

Certain posters are scarily obsessed with certain other posters and assume that they'd even want to come back. Said also posters are also in the subset of people that feel they are justified in trying to punish people for saying things they feel are stupid. (I know that people will debate this, but there's a difference between saying that someone is acting rudely and trying to punish someone verbally.)

We probably lost a new poster in the thread linked to by the esteemed Dragonchild because of such pointless displays. Which means this board will stagnate, despite the universal hatred for "noobs" that internet people have, you need fresh blood in an organization or else it stagnates. And The Gaming Den at the moment is somewhat stagnant. (Not nearly as stagnant as Nifty and their 4 posters, but definitely more stagnant than BrilliantGameologists or WotC.)

And sometimes, new people don't know the rules like a lot of us do, and sometimes new people bring in ideas that the older folks don't like. Kaelik flaming the new guy is a lot like the anti-hispanic screaming I hear all the time. Yes, it changes things when you get a lot of new people. CHANGE IS GOOD. It keeps you from settling into stale and repeating thought patterns. Sure, sometimes you have to teach people things that are simple for you, but that keeps your own skills sharper when you teach other people things.
Last edited by Count Arioch the 28th on Thu Jun 10, 2010 5:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Kaelik »

Count Arioch the 28th wrote:Certain posters are scarily obsessed with certain other posters and assume that they'd even want to come back. Said also posters are also in the subset of people that feel they are justified in trying to punish people for saying things they feel are stupid. (I know that people will debate this, but there's a difference between saying that someone is acting rudely and trying to punish someone verbally.)
I'm not obsessed with elennsar, I choose him specifically because 1) He is unlikely to ever come back.

2) the comparison is only an insult to people who already post here, and have for some time, so actually avoids insulting a newbie, on the off chance he is one.

Also, please stop saying "Some People" it's fucking annoying and cowardly and pretty much identical to the shit Laughing Man and Tarquauauaa are doing right now.
Count Arioch the 28th wrote:Kaelik flaming the new guy is a lot like the anti-hispanic screaming I hear all the time. Yes, it changes things when you get a lot of new people. CHANGE IS GOOD. It keeps you from settling into stale and repeating thought patterns.
And once again, do you see me complaining about new people? Or change? No, lots of people post things about how they are just coming over here for the first time, and I don't attack them, because I don't care, but if you expect me to seriously believe that someone discovering TGD before every other gaming forum on the internet and then not reading a single word of it before posting is anything more than a once in a lifetime fluke, then you are going to have to present some kind of evidence, like TGD on the top of any realistic search result whatsoever.
Last edited by Kaelik on Thu Jun 10, 2010 5:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Zinegata »

Pfft. Some of the people here still think I'm Tzor.
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Post by Cynic »

Kaelik: just because you use an "in-joke" as an insult, doesn't mean that a newbie isn't going to understand the connotation behind it.

Zine: you sure do post a lot like him. I mean people can't have similar thought processes or anything!
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Post by Zinegata »

I don't even know who Tzor *is* aside from the fact he seems to be the Den code word for "Dirty Right-Wing Conservative"

But hey, given that anyone who even has a remotely right-wing stance in this board gets called a teabagger, it ain't a surprise that some people choose to have one person serve as a caricature for a group you don't particularly like.
Last edited by Zinegata on Thu Jun 10, 2010 1:00 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Count Arioch the 28th
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Post by Count Arioch the 28th »

I've known Tzor for years, Zinegata is not Tzor. And I don't understand why anyone would think they were the same person. Then again, I know him in a bit more detail than "that person who had conservative political views on The Gaming Den". Like I said, you learn a lot about someone over a couple belts of bourbon.

Kaelik: Fine, I won't sugarcoat my opinions. I have a hard time taking anything you say seriously because you argue that you should be allowed to ignore social mores when you think you're right, and you are arguing that without any trace of sarcasm. I literally don't know how to communicate with you because you are a massively entitled spoiled brat.

EDIT: And Kaelik, I'm sure you are frantically typing out a "1337" reply which you think will "pwn" me. I really don't care how you justify your actions. Everything that has ever been said and done can be justified by the person that did them. Justification does not equal morality and I don't care how you justify your bratty childish behavior.
Last edited by Count Arioch the 28th on Thu Jun 10, 2010 1:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by fbmf »

if you expect me to seriously believe that someone discovering TGD before every other gaming forum on the internet and then not reading a single word of it before posting is anything more than a once in a lifetime fluke, then you are going to have to present some kind of evidence, like TGD on the top of any realistic search result whatsoever.
No. You made the wrong call by attacking a newbie with a serious question. Get over it.
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Post by Crissa »

Don't worry, Zinegata, Tzor was much more consistent in his positions than you are. I don't see much similarity.

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Post by Zinegata »

I think Crissa just called me a centrist.
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Post by Crissa »

No. Tzor would stake out a position, and you couldn't budge him with everest. He'd also quote crazy people. And he wouldn't participate in spam-type arguments.

You're a bit less specific and willing to evade arguments to keep the thread hopping.

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Post by DragonChild »

Thank you for proving my point, dragging your personal fight into another thread where it doesn't belong. Well done. Well done.
Last edited by DragonChild on Fri Jun 11, 2010 4:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Crissa »

This thread was done. He asked.

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Post by Alansmithee »

I've recently started looking at the board again, and it seems as if the tone is noticeably less inviting than before. Which really doesn't help attract new people. It's really a shame, I think because I think this board is great for information about all sorts of RPG's, but few people would find that out if they're gonna get the welcome that the guy in linked thread did, or if they see the constant off-topic sniping in other threads. I posted here before, and found the board again while searching for the tomes (I didn't even know the board had come back online). But I really doubt I'd have stayed if I didn't already know there was a lot of quality information here. And of course you can always say "well, if people can't take it they shouldn't be here" or whatever, but after awhile there's gonna be natural attrition and before you know it there'll just be 5 people constantly yelling at each other.
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Post by Zinegata »

I asked no questions. I made statements.

I wash my hands of Crissa's bitching.
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Post by virgil »

It is a shame. We've never had many newcomers at once, & relations seem to be getting strained between older members who largely only have each other to talk to; to the point of spilling over, as Dragonchild points out.
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Post by Ganbare Gincun »

I came to The Gaming Den in the aftermath of The Den's attempts to convince the Paizo team to implement meaningful rules revisions in Pathfinder. Although their rhetoric ultimately fell on deaf ears, the quality of both their arguments and the material contained within The Tomes convinced me that there were people here that really understood game design, so I signed up and started posting. And given how the Shadowrun situation is unfolding, I'm sure we'll see more people migrating onto the Forum to become regular posters. But the fact of the matter is that even without major disturbances within the online gaming community, you're going to see more people trickle into The Den as the flaws of 4E/Pathfinder and their accompanying forums become apparent to the public at large. But the tone of the forum has degraded since I originally joined. There seems to be a much greater focus on arguing about politics and making personal attacks against each other then there is on discussing how to improve the games that we love to play. And that's a real damned shame, because all we're going to end up doing is running people out of town on a rail as soon as they show up, and we're still surrounded by fantasy heartbreakers that we have to houserule or heavily modify in order to run decent, balanced games with our friends.
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Post by Crissa »

White space, Ganbare, white space! x-x

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Post by Draco_Argentum »

Too many wanna-be Frank's who copy the aggression without making a real arguement while they're at it. Thats always going to be the downfall of the Den.
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Post by Cynic »

I will agree that my posting style has somehow become more vitriolic than before I was a Denner. I think that's a stupid unconscious method to Frankify. Although I do hate Frank's posting style even if it works. hmm.
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