The Shadowrun Situation

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Alansmithee
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Post by Alansmithee »

Crissa wrote:
Kithkanan wrote:They do, from the bathroom to killing. Pretending women and men are the same is just as bad as assuming one is lesser than the other. The genders are different.
Gender is, however, a social construct. While there seems to be some basal programming to body image, such as transsexuals, humans are capable of entirely artificial conditions like transvestism.

Men and women in our society do things differently, but there is no reason they can't do things the other way. Literally. Women can pee standing if they learn, and men don't have to kill violently; this is entirely cultural.

But Cent13 has the basic gist - it is more a principle. I would call 'men and women are different' as a cultural fallacy, but it's simpler to just say it's false.

-Crissa
But it's not false. There are biological differences.
Asbestos Underwear
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Post by Asbestos Underwear »

Wesley Street wrote:Hey, it's June 1! Does CGL still have the SR license?
Not according to JH's earlier Dumbshock comments; however, the Topps/IMR contract almost invariably includes language that allows for short term extensions or an extension during good-faith re-licensing negotiations. I don't work in gaming, but that sort of thing is standard elsewhere. That the June 1 termination date mentioned previously has been pushed back to mid-June probably means a brief extension has been granted. Unless JH's initial comments were guesswork and he's just constantly telling people the expiration is about two weeks away.
Last edited by Asbestos Underwear on Tue Jun 01, 2010 3:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Stahlseele
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Post by Stahlseele »

Also, dumpshock.com is down again.
Welcome, to IronHell.
Shrapnel wrote:
TFwiki wrote:Soon is the name of the region in the time-domain (familiar to all marketing departments, and to the moderators and staff of Fun Publications) which sees release of all BotCon news, club exclusives, and other fan desirables. Soon is when then will become now.

Peculiar properties of spacetime ensure that the perception of the magnitude of Soon is fluid and dependent, not on an individual's time-reference, but on spatial and cultural location. A marketer generally perceives Soon as a finite, known, yet unspeakable time-interval; to a fan, the interval appears greater, and may in fact approach the infinite, becoming Never. Once the interval has passed, however, a certain time-lensing effect seems to occur, and the time-interval becomes vanishingly small. We therefore see the strange result that the same fragment of spacetime may be observed, in quick succession, as Soon, Never, and All Too Quickly.
Taharqa
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Post by Taharqa »

FrankTrollman wrote: I don't have an NDA. Whether I discuss something or not is entirely at my discretion.
That's BS. If you had an NDA when those metaplot elements were under discussion, then you are still on the hook.

You have completely stepped over the line. Revealing metaplot elements in order to spoil them because you deem them to be stupid is not only grossly unprofessional, but incredibly arrogant.
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Stahlseele
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Post by Stahlseele »

I guess he never had an NDA back then either.
Seems as if that was and still is the case with many a Freelancer.
Welcome, to IronHell.
Shrapnel wrote:
TFwiki wrote:Soon is the name of the region in the time-domain (familiar to all marketing departments, and to the moderators and staff of Fun Publications) which sees release of all BotCon news, club exclusives, and other fan desirables. Soon is when then will become now.

Peculiar properties of spacetime ensure that the perception of the magnitude of Soon is fluid and dependent, not on an individual's time-reference, but on spatial and cultural location. A marketer generally perceives Soon as a finite, known, yet unspeakable time-interval; to a fan, the interval appears greater, and may in fact approach the infinite, becoming Never. Once the interval has passed, however, a certain time-lensing effect seems to occur, and the time-interval becomes vanishingly small. We therefore see the strange result that the same fragment of spacetime may be observed, in quick succession, as Soon, Never, and All Too Quickly.
Username17
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Post by Username17 »

Taharqa wrote:
FrankTrollman wrote: I don't have an NDA. Whether I discuss something or not is entirely at my discretion.
That's BS. If you had an NDA when those metaplot elements were under discussion, then you are still on the hook.

You have completely stepped over the line. Revealing metaplot elements in order to spoil them because you deem them to be stupid is not only grossly unprofessional, but incredibly arrogant.
You don't know what contracts I have or have not signed. My professionalism or not is irrelevant. And by irrelevant I mean: I am not a professional writer. I am a medical student. My work is in the field of saving peoples' lives. Writing RPG materials for people to use or offering suggestions to improve plots is something I do for fun. I don't get paid a fucking dime for it, so don't talk to me about professional ethics with regards to it.

Professional ethics are to blow the whistle every time something is wrong. Anytime anything is wrong. Now some people are too cowardly to raise their voice because they fear that they won't get a paycheck, but I'm not. Because I don't get a paycheck anyway. I am brave, because I have nothing to fear. And that means that I can do the right thingevery time.

-Username17
Last edited by Username17 on Tue Jun 01, 2010 6:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Asbestos Underwear
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Post by Asbestos Underwear »

JMH has confirmed that NDA's weren't on file for many former and current freelancers. Unwad the panties. If you want to be pissed at someone for discussing future products, go after AH for his cheap shots at the quality of drafts he was leaked from the freelancers' forum.
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Post by Username17 »

Asbestos Underwear wrote:JMH has confirmed that NDA's weren't on file for many former and current freelancers. Unwad the panties. If you want to be pissed at someone for discussing future products, go after AH for his cheap shots at the quality of drafts he was leaked from the freelancers' forum.
To be fair, I was leaked some of the drafts he kvetches about and share some of his concerns. As I understand it, Ancient History doesn't have an NDA and was fired for political reasons. I think his condemnation of literary style borders on sour grapes, but he is quite right to be pissed when someone gets pulled in to rewrite his stuff who can't tell whether Shadows of Asia comes before or after Corporate Enclaves (this was a real event), and he is quite right to be annoyed when the Tir a nOg draft talks about Catholics and Protestants instead of Pathers and Neo-Druids.

-Username17
Taharqa
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Post by Taharqa »

I do know that CGL isn't in the habit of revealing metaplots to people without NDAs. You may be legally in the clear if CGl fucked up its paperwork, but that doesn't make it any less of a slimeball thing to do.

But all of that misses the bigger issue. Revealing a plot with the purpose of derailing it suggests that you think you are the gatekeeper of what is good and bad for the SR line, and that you have the right to deprive other fans of making that choice for themselves. That you are arrogant has never really been in question, but to see how far it reaches is illuminating.

You are a fraud, Frank. People who have to self-promote their integrity, desire for truth and justice, bravery, etc. are rarely, if ever, the ones possessing those traits. Actions speak louder than words.
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Post by Username17 »

Taharqa wrote:I do know that CGL isn't in the habit of revealing metaplots to people without NDAs.
Then you know nothing. Kindly: fuck off.

-Username17
Kithkanan
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Post by Kithkanan »

FrankTrollman wrote:To be fair, I was leaked some of the drafts he kvetches about and share some of his concerns. As I understand it, Ancient History doesn't have an NDA and was fired for political reasons.
He claims to have quite and withdrawn his material.
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Post by Fuchs »

Taharqa wrote:I do know that CGL isn't in the habit of revealing metaplots to people without NDAs. You may be legally in the clear if CGl fucked up its paperwork, but that doesn't make it any less of a slimeball thing to do.

But all of that misses the bigger issue. Revealing a plot with the purpose of derailing it suggests that you think you are the gatekeeper of what is good and bad for the SR line, and that you have the right to deprive other fans of making that choice for themselves. That you are arrogant has never really been in question, but to see how far it reaches is illuminating.
"Revealing" a plot is no big deal. We're not in the stone age anymore, waiting with baited breath for what morsels of epics the authors might deign to throw at us. The revealing of the drow has been decades ago, these times it simply doesn't happen anymore.
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Post by Username17 »

Kithkanan wrote:
FrankTrollman wrote:To be fair, I was leaked some of the drafts he kvetches about and share some of his concerns. As I understand it, Ancient History doesn't have an NDA and was fired for political reasons.
He claims to have quit and withdrawn his material.
Both statements are true.

Jason banned him from the freelancer forums, had his password cut, and kicked him off the writer roster. He was willing to go ahead and print AH's material with presumably IMR's historical adroitness in payment. AH declined and withdrew his material (the one remaining piece of input h was allowed).

So the statement "AH was fired" and the statement "AH quit" are both correct statements.

-Username17
Wesley Street
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Post by Wesley Street »

Taharqa wrote:I do know that CGL isn't in the habit of revealing metaplots to people without NDAs.
Wrong. NDAs only became regular practice about a year and a half ago, approximately the time I started writing with the Missions team.

It was after Frank dropped the bomb, the mass resignations became news, and regular leaks started up that IMR began cleaning house and requiring that all current freelancers sign them.
Last edited by Wesley Street on Tue Jun 01, 2010 7:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
BeeRockxs
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Post by BeeRockxs »

Unless AH had an employment contract, he couldn't have been fired.
Getting not any more work as a freelancer does not equal getting fired.
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Post by BeeRockxs »

Wesley Street wrote:
Taharqa wrote:I do know that CGL isn't in the habit of revealing metaplots to people without NDAs.
Wrong. NDAs only became regular practice about a year and a half ago, approximately the time I started writing with the Missions team.

It was only after Frank dropped the bomb, the mass resignations became news, and regular leaks started up that IMR began cleaning house and requiring that all current freelancers sign them.
On the BT side of things, NDAs have been regular for longer than that.
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Post by Wesley Street »

BeeRockxs wrote:On the BT side of things, NDAs have been regular for longer than that.
It's never been a big secret that BT gets more love and attention from IMR than SR.
Last edited by Wesley Street on Tue Jun 01, 2010 7:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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martian_bob
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Post by martian_bob »

So rather than say anything about the state of the SR license, Catalyst has given us a couple of distractions.

New spin: http://catalystgamelabs.com/2010/06/01/ ... -7-filing/

And another sucker added to the Future Creditors of IMR Club: http://catalystgamelabs.com/2010/06/01/ ... game-labs/

I don't know anything at PSI, I just feel bad for them at this point.

As far as the Chapter 7 statement goes, it's more half-truths and eel-wriggling, near as I can tell.
Catalyst Games is not operating under any order of bankruptcy. Currently, three separate parties claiming to be owed monies in the total amount of approximately $60,000 have filed a petition in an effort to force the company into bankruptcy. Catalyst questions the accuracy of this amount, and legal counsel for the company is currently researching the viability of their claims. We expect the petition to be ultimately denied.
Sure, they're not under a bankruptcy order - I don't know anyone who was claiming they were. Sure, they're going to question the amount, it'd be ridiculous not to if they don't owe that much, and it's not like they'd admit to anything if they did. Sure, they expect the petition to be denied, otherwise they'd more or less be admitting to being in the wrong. IMHO, this statement adds nothing to what's already known, and simply sidesteps any questions of whether or not they actually owe any money to anyone.
The overall question, as it has been explained to the management team, is whether or not Catalyst has been working to meet its obligations and can reasonably expect to continue in such a manner. Ongoing and recent payments to two of the three parties involved in this petition, as well as additional payments sent out to numerous freelancers, would seem to argue in the company’s defense despite statements to the contrary.
This is where the half-truths really get moving. Example: paying $10k and a vastly underestimated amount of product to WildFire is not the same thing as, for example, setting up a payment plan to take care of the debt owed to them. "Ongoing and recent payments", as well as "payments sent out to numerous freelancers", does not acknowledge the gaping holes in payment responsibilities. This statement ignores the payments not sent out to numerous freelancers who are owed payments, as well as failing to address whether or not folks who have received payments 1) are owed any further monies, and 2) have any idea when the rest of any monies owed will be coming in.

And finally, the cop-out:
Catalyst Game Labs remains committed to its policy of responsible dialog through press releases or within appropriate legal channels. It is not the company’s desire or intention to engage any individual in an argument outside of these confines. The company fully expects to prevail against any and all proceedings.
In other words: everyone at IMR who knows anything about what happens from this point forward will probably be clamming up. Whatever transparency once existed has been rendered opaque.

It's the last bit that really bugs me. It's like they're acknowledging that whenever anyone lets information slip, it damages the company somehow, like they've got a narrative to defend or something. Stuff that leaks can only be representative of what's inside the company - if it's full of sunshine and lollipops, we'd expect the leak to be bright and smell like candy. If it's full of shit, well...
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Stahlseele
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Post by Stahlseele »

BeeRockxs wrote:
Wesley Street wrote:
Taharqa wrote:I do know that CGL isn't in the habit of revealing metaplots to people without NDAs.
Wrong. NDAs only became regular practice about a year and a half ago, approximately the time I started writing with the Missions team.

It was only after Frank dropped the bomb, the mass resignations became news, and regular leaks started up that IMR began cleaning house and requiring that all current freelancers sign them.
On the BT side of things, NDAs have been regular for longer than that.
Not on the SR Side.
THat was purely random.
Last edited by Stahlseele on Tue Jun 01, 2010 7:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Welcome, to IronHell.
Shrapnel wrote:
TFwiki wrote:Soon is the name of the region in the time-domain (familiar to all marketing departments, and to the moderators and staff of Fun Publications) which sees release of all BotCon news, club exclusives, and other fan desirables. Soon is when then will become now.

Peculiar properties of spacetime ensure that the perception of the magnitude of Soon is fluid and dependent, not on an individual's time-reference, but on spatial and cultural location. A marketer generally perceives Soon as a finite, known, yet unspeakable time-interval; to a fan, the interval appears greater, and may in fact approach the infinite, becoming Never. Once the interval has passed, however, a certain time-lensing effect seems to occur, and the time-interval becomes vanishingly small. We therefore see the strange result that the same fragment of spacetime may be observed, in quick succession, as Soon, Never, and All Too Quickly.
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Post by Clutch9800 »

I am brave, because I have nothing to fear.
Not to nit-pick, but being brave and having nothing to fear are not the same thing. Having plenty to fear and doing the right thing anyway, that's bravery.
It's the last bit that really bugs me. It's like they're acknowledging that whenever anyone lets information slip, it damages the company somehow, like they've got a narrative to defend or something. Stuff that leaks can only be representative of what's inside the company - if it's full of sunshine and lollipops, we'd expect the leak to be bright and smell like candy. If it's full of shit, well...
Well, we all know that it's not full of sunshine and lollipops in there. I think the problem is that there are people who could find a raisin and raise the hue and cry that said raisin is actually a giant turd. Gamers love drama. The more dramatic they can make things seem, the more they can have the spotlight of adulation shined on them, the better they like it.

They have problems, they know it, everybody knows it. It's the difference between the actual and the percieved seriousness of the problems that are the rub.

Clutch

P.S. I never had an NDA, and I knew the metaplot of both games. I just kept my mouth shut and didn't discuss it with anyone.
Last edited by Clutch9800 on Tue Jun 01, 2010 7:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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The Vigilante
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Post by The Vigilante »

I think it's totally hilarious that revealing metaplot elements (GASP!) is a bigger offense to some people than defending and working with fraudsters.

Priorities, priorities.
Yea though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I fear no one - for I am the meanest motherfucker in the valley.
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Post by Centurion13 »

Taharqa wrote:
FrankTrollman wrote: I don't have an NDA. Whether I discuss something or not is entirely at my discretion.
That's BS. If you had an NDA when those metaplot elements were under discussion, then you are still on the hook.

You have completely stepped over the line. Revealing metaplot elements in order to spoil them because you deem them to be stupid is not only grossly unprofessional, but incredibly arrogant.
Oh Tarq! So diplomatic and restrained. C'mon, tell us what you really think...

But to be fair, you're still making with the red herrings, and darned if I didn't miss that.

What a pantywaist.

Cent13
Last edited by Centurion13 on Tue Jun 01, 2010 9:12 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Centurion13
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Post by Centurion13 »

The Vigilante wrote:I think it's totally hilarious that revealing metaplot elements (GASP!) is a bigger offense to some people than defending and working with fraudsters.

Priorities, priorities.
And it says a lot about Frank's detractors that most of their priorities seem to be to get everyone looking away... ignore that man behind the curtain!
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mean_liar
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Post by mean_liar »

I'm somewhat surprised that we're not at guro spam by this point.
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Crissa
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Post by Crissa »

I said I wasn't going to argue about gender.
Alansmithee wrote:But it's not false. There are biological differences.
Dude, seriously. There are biological differences between someone 100 pounds and someone 300 pounds, too.
So, what have we learned today? IMR says it isn't under bankruptcy! Well... I don't know of anyone who said it was operating under bankruptcy. IMR says it has paid people! Yes, but did they pay them the right amount?

Also, notice the same people crying foul about NDAs and metaplot is the same guy defending corruption. That seriously confuses me. What, it's okay for the company to screw the contractor, but not the other way around?

-Crissa
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