So I've read through the Tome compilations and a handful of the threads here and I'm still a little baffled on how one balances magic items.
I get that PCs have a limit of 8 items, and typically once they hit 9th level or so will have infinite "mundane wealth" and low-powered items. That seems like it'd work reasonably well, though I'm curious how expendables like scrolls/potions/et al work.
A more fundamental question seems to arise from my perspective though: given that a lot of the powerful stuff is things along the lines of "Magic Sword" which automatically scales to the character's power level... how do you cost that? I think (and I'm a bit upside down on this one) that the premise is "a basic Magic Sword has 1/3rd your level as bonuses to hit/damage, etc" and the better gear consists of "Flaming Magic Sword" or "Flaming Defender Magic Sword of Gelding".
But what do we as gamemasters do in order to determine those? If I'm a umpty-whump level wizard who decides to make his barbarian buddy a Great Axe of Beating The Snot Out Of People, should this just be a handwave "ok you did it"? Or if the barbarian decides he wants to buy one, can he just stop by the shop or get the Efreet to hand him one?
Ordinarily I would figure that amounts to "ok, cheap magic items are freely available, so I can get my +1 sword from the Efreeti" but that doesn't necessarily mesh well with "I'm 18th level so my sword oughta be +6 and that's too expensive for the Big Flamer to give me." Seems at best twisted if you can get your Magic Sword of Scaling Up at low levels, but couldn't get the similar one at higher level because you make the item too valuable.
How's this intended to be handled?
Thanks!
Pricing for Tome based magic items
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Ah as I understand it, any scaling enchantments to magic items don't do what you seem to think. A sword that's +6 in the hands of a higher level adventurer and +2 in the hands of a lower level one is still fundamentally the same item and still costs the same regardless of who is wielding it. You aren't paying for a +3 or a +5 or a +6, you're paying for a magic sword that is +1/3 levels (rounded up).
As for everything else, well the BoG was never finished. However, you simply cannot buy magic items worth more than 15000 gold with mundane currency (or wishes). You can use super planar currency, and/or (and this is my preferred version) trade items of with a value of higher than 15k for the magic items you actually want (as long as it's someplace like the City of Brass). There was also a list somewhere of lesser, moderate, and greater enchantments. I can't recall where, but maybe someone else can point it out to you. And it's sort of a judgment call on what kind of magic is appropriate to give out, but being able to make your sword go all on fire isn't really all that powerful. It's rather flavorful, especially if you can also make it icy, or dripping acid, or LOUD, but again, after a certain point none of that is going to come close to breaking your game. More powerful effects like Sun or something would probably be something you'd upgrade a fiery weapon to once they completed a quest and were a high enough level. Or they could just find it lying on the ground, in the house of a guy, that they stabbed.
I think there was something else like "wizards get to make one magic item per level" but I might be pulling that out of my ass...
As for everything else, well the BoG was never finished. However, you simply cannot buy magic items worth more than 15000 gold with mundane currency (or wishes). You can use super planar currency, and/or (and this is my preferred version) trade items of with a value of higher than 15k for the magic items you actually want (as long as it's someplace like the City of Brass). There was also a list somewhere of lesser, moderate, and greater enchantments. I can't recall where, but maybe someone else can point it out to you. And it's sort of a judgment call on what kind of magic is appropriate to give out, but being able to make your sword go all on fire isn't really all that powerful. It's rather flavorful, especially if you can also make it icy, or dripping acid, or LOUD, but again, after a certain point none of that is going to come close to breaking your game. More powerful effects like Sun or something would probably be something you'd upgrade a fiery weapon to once they completed a quest and were a high enough level. Or they could just find it lying on the ground, in the house of a guy, that they stabbed.
I think there was something else like "wizards get to make one magic item per level" but I might be pulling that out of my ass...
Last edited by Jilocasin on Mon May 24, 2010 3:50 am, edited 2 times in total.
1) Okay, so for whatever reason the actual magic items part of Book of Gears got cut off in the original Unfinished Materials thread. So you want to read that here.
2) It's in the unfinished materials section for a reason, it was never completed. You will have to fix things for yourself somehow.
3) There was going to be a way to limit active scrolls/potions/ect. But it never got finished. I have my own method of balancing them presented in my Tome Errata thread if you are looking for a jump off point.
4) So a quick summary of items that are not scrolls/wands/staffs/potions, but are wondrous items or Magic Weapons.
There are 3 or four categories:
a) Basic Magic. This provides a +1/3rd level scaling bonus to something. This is cheap as free. It costs 6 gold pieces, it doesn't matter. You should assume that your characters have 12 of these at level 8. I personally feel like these don't exist at all, and only minor+ items exist.
b) Minor, these have a +1/3rd level bonus, and they also grant a minor ability, there is a list of three of such abilities, on the link I gave you, and elsewhere, including second post of page 4 of the WBL thread. Or maybe page 3. These are all totally less than 15,000gp worth, so you can just have as many as you want as soon as you get Wish.
c) Moderate, a better list, still have +1/3rd level bonus. These are either high end of wishable or not wishable, depending.
d) Major, better list, still have +1/3rd level. Not Wishable at all. Must adventurer to get.
So bottom line, you need to forget about costing magic items, especially the rules in the DMG. For serious.
5) Answer specific questions:
a) ""a basic Magic Sword has 1/3rd your level as bonuses to hit/damage, etc" and the better gear consists of "Flaming Magic Sword" or "Flaming Defender Magic Sword of Gelding". "
No. You only have one and only one property on a Magic Sword.
There is some argument about having a Major item have two moderate abilities or whatever, but generally speaking, no.
b) "But what do we as gamemasters do in order to determine those?" You make what fits the monster using it. Or what fits the reason it is there. Or it fits the character you intend to use it. Or whatever.
c) "If I'm a umpty-whump level wizard who decides to make his barbarian buddy a Great Axe of Beating The Snot Out Of People, should this just be a handwave "ok you did it"?"
There are crafting rules in... somewhere. But the point is, you can make a Minor Item pretty easily at level 6, and just assume it is whatever minor item you wanted.
d) "Or if the barbarian decides he wants to buy one, can he just stop by the shop or get the Efreet to hand him one? "
Sort of. You can stop by a shop and trade you Magical Sword of Ice for a Magical Flaming Sword. Because they are of equal value ish. Or you could trade some amount of gold to a guy who wants something gold can buy for his Flaming Magical Sword.
e) "Ordinarily I would figure that amounts to "ok, cheap magic items are freely available, so I can get my +1 sword from the Efreeti" but that doesn't necessarily mesh well with "I'm 18th level so my sword oughta be +6 and that's too expensive for the Big Flamer to give me.""
You can't get a +1 sword or a +6 sword, you get a "Magic Sword" that has a bonus based on your level. So that sword has a cost of, "11 cents" or whatever else you want, and you can get a sword that gives +6 bonus for 11 cents, because you need to ignore the DMG chart. It doesn't fucking exist.
2) It's in the unfinished materials section for a reason, it was never completed. You will have to fix things for yourself somehow.
3) There was going to be a way to limit active scrolls/potions/ect. But it never got finished. I have my own method of balancing them presented in my Tome Errata thread if you are looking for a jump off point.
4) So a quick summary of items that are not scrolls/wands/staffs/potions, but are wondrous items or Magic Weapons.
There are 3 or four categories:
a) Basic Magic. This provides a +1/3rd level scaling bonus to something. This is cheap as free. It costs 6 gold pieces, it doesn't matter. You should assume that your characters have 12 of these at level 8. I personally feel like these don't exist at all, and only minor+ items exist.
b) Minor, these have a +1/3rd level bonus, and they also grant a minor ability, there is a list of three of such abilities, on the link I gave you, and elsewhere, including second post of page 4 of the WBL thread. Or maybe page 3. These are all totally less than 15,000gp worth, so you can just have as many as you want as soon as you get Wish.
c) Moderate, a better list, still have +1/3rd level bonus. These are either high end of wishable or not wishable, depending.
d) Major, better list, still have +1/3rd level. Not Wishable at all. Must adventurer to get.
So bottom line, you need to forget about costing magic items, especially the rules in the DMG. For serious.
5) Answer specific questions:
a) ""a basic Magic Sword has 1/3rd your level as bonuses to hit/damage, etc" and the better gear consists of "Flaming Magic Sword" or "Flaming Defender Magic Sword of Gelding". "
No. You only have one and only one property on a Magic Sword.
There is some argument about having a Major item have two moderate abilities or whatever, but generally speaking, no.
b) "But what do we as gamemasters do in order to determine those?" You make what fits the monster using it. Or what fits the reason it is there. Or it fits the character you intend to use it. Or whatever.
c) "If I'm a umpty-whump level wizard who decides to make his barbarian buddy a Great Axe of Beating The Snot Out Of People, should this just be a handwave "ok you did it"?"
There are crafting rules in... somewhere. But the point is, you can make a Minor Item pretty easily at level 6, and just assume it is whatever minor item you wanted.
d) "Or if the barbarian decides he wants to buy one, can he just stop by the shop or get the Efreet to hand him one? "
Sort of. You can stop by a shop and trade you Magical Sword of Ice for a Magical Flaming Sword. Because they are of equal value ish. Or you could trade some amount of gold to a guy who wants something gold can buy for his Flaming Magical Sword.
e) "Ordinarily I would figure that amounts to "ok, cheap magic items are freely available, so I can get my +1 sword from the Efreeti" but that doesn't necessarily mesh well with "I'm 18th level so my sword oughta be +6 and that's too expensive for the Big Flamer to give me.""
You can't get a +1 sword or a +6 sword, you get a "Magic Sword" that has a bonus based on your level. So that sword has a cost of, "11 cents" or whatever else you want, and you can get a sword that gives +6 bonus for 11 cents, because you need to ignore the DMG chart. It doesn't fucking exist.
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CatharzGodfoot
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A lot of DMG magic items are still perfectly valid and are usually fine as priced, although you might want to add a scaling bonus to some.
Scaling bonus (only) items should probably cost 1,000 to 2,000 gp, modified by economic conditions. Unlimited spell items are probably fine at (spell level)*('minimum caster level')*1,000 gp, where 'minimum caster level' is really (spell level)*2 - 1 (max 3rd; 0th level spells should cost around 500 gp). Again, as influenced by local economic conditions.
When you hit the wish economy, powerful `limited use' items will break the game.
Scaling bonus (only) items should probably cost 1,000 to 2,000 gp, modified by economic conditions. Unlimited spell items are probably fine at (spell level)*('minimum caster level')*1,000 gp, where 'minimum caster level' is really (spell level)*2 - 1 (max 3rd; 0th level spells should cost around 500 gp). Again, as influenced by local economic conditions.
When you hit the wish economy, powerful `limited use' items will break the game.
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Quantumboost
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IIRC, the BoG crafting limitations were:
1) You can make a single item with your caster level (or equivalent) each level.
2) You can make as many magic items that require 4 less than your caster level as you have time to make (existing crafting times may or may not apply).
3) A magic item in its "iconic form" (i.e., the exact form and properties in the DMG or other source) has a caster level requirement of 2 less than if it were not in iconic form.
1) and 2) together mean that you'll often have four items of greater than your mass-production quality made by you and will have to fill the rest of the item slots with either cheaper stuff or stuff you get from other sources (probably other sources if you're an adventurer worth your precious bodily fluids).
I don't think the Lesser/Moderate/Greater listed items have specific caster levels listed, so that will probably have to be handwaved or handled separately.
1) You can make a single item with your caster level (or equivalent) each level.
2) You can make as many magic items that require 4 less than your caster level as you have time to make (existing crafting times may or may not apply).
3) A magic item in its "iconic form" (i.e., the exact form and properties in the DMG or other source) has a caster level requirement of 2 less than if it were not in iconic form.
1) and 2) together mean that you'll often have four items of greater than your mass-production quality made by you and will have to fill the rest of the item slots with either cheaper stuff or stuff you get from other sources (probably other sources if you're an adventurer worth your precious bodily fluids).
I don't think the Lesser/Moderate/Greater listed items have specific caster levels listed, so that will probably have to be handwaved or handled separately.
Last edited by Quantumboost on Mon May 24, 2010 5:02 am, edited 2 times in total.