SR traditions

[mean_liar]

What're the guidelines on what constitutes a tradition in SR? I've been operating under the impression that anything reasonably justifiable (ie, internally consistent) should be kosher.

The tradition I'm trying to fly is...

Magician (Apotheotic Theurgy)

Combat: Guardian
Detection: Guidance
Health: Plant
Illusion: Man
Manipulation: Task
Drain: Willpower + Logic

Through rituals and secrets signs Creep summons his own personas, spirits that "could" have been, reflections of himself as much as projections of his mental state, self-esteem, and pre-held beliefs. Sometimes they're happy to help, other times upset at the disturbance (the Guidance spirits especially seem to resent Creep's lifestyle). Ultimately, the spirits seem to recognize that they're part of the same godhead as Creep and are willing to assist and help out but that doesn't mean that they won't trade barbs and insults with each other - after all, they're still Creep.

[Username17]

What're the guidelines on what constitutes a tradition in SR? I've been operating under the impression that anything reasonably justifiable (ie, internally consistent) should be kosher.

Pretty much, yeah. Your tradition has five kinds of spirits that are each associated with one kind of sorcery. Your tradition has a drain attribute. Your tradition is either possession or materialization. Also, your tradition has a "look and feel" that determines how its practitioners, materials, and spirits appear and behave. Within those boundaries, go nuts.

Magician (Apotheotic Theurgy)

Combat: Guardian
Detection: Guidance
Health: Plant
Illusion: Man
Manipulation: Task
Drain: Willpower + Logic

That's certainly legal. Should mention whether it's a materialization or possession tradition. It's not super clear from the description. Are the Personas transforming you like in Persona 3 or are they flying around chopping things up like in Forbidden Planet?

-Username17

[mean_liar]

Materialization. I need the Task spirits to do odd jobs so that the character doesn't need to do much to maintain his lifestyle in downtimes.

[Stahlseele]

Technically, no spirit CAN actually materialize.
All spirits start out on the astral plane.
Materialization is a physical power.
On the astral plane, only mana based powers work, not physical ones.
So no using materialization to go from astral to meat space.
Next best would be manifesting i guess. But then you are still not really materialized and can not use any physical powers.
And you can not cast spells on exclusively physical targets while not being materialized. So no, you can not have your spirit cast stun ball on the group of completely mundane trolls over there.
Technically. but of course, people tend to smile and overlook this fiasco for the sake of being able to play ^^

Also, everything goes. You can have a magician basing his personal tradition on his favourite childhood saturday/sunday morning cartoon show . .

[Avoraciopoctules]

What're the guidelines on what constitutes a tradition in SR? I've been operating under the impression that anything reasonably justifiable (ie, internally consistent) should be kosher.

[insert snarky comment about Christian Theurgy]

[mean_liar]

Those odd jobs are actual odd jobs, Stahlseele. Like, fixing cars and crap with Task spirits.

[Lokathor]

Other than Hermetic and Shamanistic, are any other traditions particularly more popular than the others? (Or perhaps simply easy for beginner players to use for some sort of reason?)

[Orca]

Chaos mage is a tradition with a good name which gets some attention (well at least 1 player I've seen) because of it, and Vodoun is the normal possession tradition.

[CatharzGodfoot]

Other than Hermetic and Shamanistic, are any other traditions particularly more popular than the others?

Bug cultists, but they're villains.

Technically, no spirit CAN actually materialize.

Aren't they materialized when they're summoned? It would still be fucked up, but at least then general spirit usage is legit.

[Stahlseele]

No, spirits that are summonned initially appear on the astral.
Spirits don't like being in meat space either. Which is why having them materialize constitutes of a service by using a power too i guess.

[Username17]

Other than Hermetic and Shamanistic, are any other traditions particularly more popular than the others? (Or perhaps simply easy for beginner players to use for some sort of reason?)

Every tradition that got a writeup at some point in some magic book in the past is more popular than the ones on the big list or the ones you just make up. So you get more Voudoun, Norse, Tir Path of the Wheel, and Wuxing than you get other traditions. Yes, seriously. Path of the Wheel. Even though there are only 30,000 practitioners worldwide, and most of them live on a tiny island that has no natural resources and no one cares about. Because they got extensive writeups in several older books and people gravitate to that.

-Username17

[mean_liar]

No, spirits that are summonned initially appear on the astral.
Spirits don't like being in meat space either. Which is why having them materialize constitutes of a service by using a power too i guess.

THEN YOU WHIP THEM LIKE SLAVES. Or at least treat them as tireless non-unionized skilled labor with every trade-based skill in the universe, one at a time.

[Username17]

The question of how Materialization, Astral Projection, and Possession work is a complex one. Because yes, they are powers that push across the borders between the world, so they violate the normal rules.

Materialization is a Physical Power that takes place on the Physical Plane but could not logically have been used until it had been used. That's pretty weird. But since the power is not interruptible, it's not actually a problem.

This is also why I was against having Possession be usable on unprepared vessels - because if you use it and it fails, you logically could not have used it at all. And that actually is a paradox.

-Username17

[Lago PARANOIA]

I've always wondered.

Since it's possible to use magic at all in the Shadowrun universe and magic has a technology/supernatural dichotomy, does this inherently put a cap on the limits of universal transhumanism?

[Username17]

I've always wondered.

Since it's possible to use magic at all in the Shadowrun universe and magic has a technology/supernatural dichotomy, does this inherently put a cap on the limits of universal transhumanism?

Well, Cybermancy exists, so I'm going to say "no."

-Username17

[Stahlseele]

No, spirits that are summonned initially appear on the astral.
Spirits don't like being in meat space either. Which is why having them materialize constitutes of a service by using a power too i guess.

THEN YOU WHIP THEM LIKE SLAVES. Or at least treat them as tireless non-unionized skilled labor with every trade-based skill in the universe, one at a time.

No, you place a fire-elemental under a pot with a water elemental inside.
presto, free energy. Or have the water elemental start running on a water mill. Or have an air elemental do laps in/around/through a windmill . .

I've always wondered.

Since it's possible to use magic at all in the Shadowrun universe and magic has a technology/supernatural dichotomy, does this inherently put a cap on the limits of universal transhumanism?

I think they put a lid on how much bonus you can get with a spirit going into your body some days/weeks ago, but i am not sure about that right now . .