How would you redo spells in D&D?

[Psychic Robot]

Outside of balancing them, what system would you use? Traditional Vancian? Spells per encounter? Recharge magic? Skill- or level-check casting?

[PoliteNewb]

I'm probably going to go vancian, just because a.) I'm lazy, and b.) I don't mind limited resource management (I kinda like it).

That said, the variant I'm tinkering with is a more broad-based spell system, where you can get a spell at any level, and what it does is limited by your caster level (which will probably just end up being character level) and what slot you choose to cast it in.

For example, if you know the "Concealment" spell, depending on how high level you are and what slot you want to use, it can do a variety of things, ranging from making you less noticeable in a crowd, to hiding objects from view temporarily, to making you blend in with the wall if you're not moving, to letting you simply fucking vanish in broad daylight.

There will be a variety of spells of this sort, with names like "Beast-mastery", "Pyromancy", "Spellbinding", "Necromancy", "Telepathy", "Demon Trafficking", and so on and so forth.

[MGuy]

Recharge.

[Leress]

Drain ala Slayers d20

[Bill Bisco: Isometric Imp]

Per Encounter all the way (No Daily Powers!)

[virgil]

Forget spells per encounter, or per day, but per lifetime! Once you cast that fireball a third time, you need to make a new character to cast it again, and you better damn hope you've levelled by now to get a new spell to cast (also limited by 'times per ever').

[RandomCasualty2]

I'd do a mix of at will, encounter and per level. And rituals for the noncombat stuff.

[Doom]

Better carry around a crossbow, then! Or get issued something like the magic missile (sic) of DnD4.0, which is *completely* different than just carrying a crossbow.

[traverse]

Forget spells per encounter, or per day, but per lifetime! Once you cast that fireball a third time, you need to make a new character to cast it again, and you better damn hope you've levelled by now to get a new spell to cast (also limited by 'times per ever').

Sounds like the Bio-Mage. Crazy.

In one of my projects, Mystery!, I have mix of at-wills and incantations. But I could never decide on a specific system for every setting. Some settings just operate differently. I've used skill-based before, but didn't really like it. At-wills are certainly my system of choice.

[Hicks]

I would let any spell caster have a number of spell slots equal to the highest spell level they could cast, plus their spell casting ability modifier. And they could regain their spell slots and change the number of spells prepared after a 10 minute ritual. DCs remain the same (10+ spell level + ability modifier). Metamagic would instead of increasing the spell level, cost an additional spell slot per spell level increase.

[Hicks]

Sounds like the Bio-Mage. Crazy..

That Bio-Mage seems to be the worst class, ever. Worse than the 3.5 Wilder. A class that actively kills you if you use you class abilities?! Oh Rule 34 30, I curse thee for thy unending torment. That I now must live my life knowing something so filled with fail in the purest form exists, is too much to bear. My life shall be as hollow and empty as the cursed knowledge that has made me thus: That which is seen may never be unseen.

[NineInchNall]

Assuming the spells were balanced for it: Recharge + Fatigue. I'd also have some sort of limit on the spells available, sort of like the Known vs. Readied dichotomy from ToB.

[Josh_Kablack]

Assuming we're still talking something called D&D, I'd still keep a somewhat Vancian system.

I'd either go all the way back to Card--based: you play a Fireball card to have your character cast a fireball spell or I'd go with Wizardry I's simplified system (IE the 3.x sorcerer), where you get so many spells per day to cast of each level known, but it doesn't matter which spells within a level you cast. Thus if you have 3 3rd level spells per day, you get to cast 3 fireballs, or 3 lightning bolts, or 3 hastes, or 1 of each, or 2 of one and one of another.

The card-based system allows you to have a number of different options for how to refresh your hand (preparing your spells) and opens up some other mechanics (claiming last card played, peeking at other's hands, etc)

[FatR]

Vancian. DnD just won't feel like DnD to me anymore without Vancian spellcasting.

[Prak]

I remember working up a system in high school meant to simulate the magic system of Eragon (ie, words of power, the more you know, the more you can do).

It was a spell point system that allowed anyone to cast. Several races got inherent spell points, and all that was particularly required was a knowledge check appropriate to type (Arcane, nature, religion:arcane, druid, cleric) with a sliding DC based on spell level. If you didn't have enough spell points to cast the spell, it'd spill over into Con, and cause fatigue, and yes, you could nova and die.

I liked it, I don't know how well it'd work out, and it likely needed a hell of a lot of polish before seeing the table, but I thought it fairly decently reflected the magic in the book.

[RobbyPants]

Assuming the spells were balanced for it: Recharge + Fatigue. I'd also have some sort of limit on the spells available, sort of like the Known vs. Readied dichotomy from ToB.

I'm trying something like this currently in a game I'm running. The classes grant spells known/readied each level, but I'm using spell points for casting (with a modified mechanic for direct damage scaling). Right now, the group is too low of a level for me to get a good feeling for it. When all you're slinging around is 1st level spells for 1 SP, it's not much different than pick-and-choose-Vancian.

[shadzar]

Vancian. Maybe allow simple "magic tricks" as there exists today to allow casters something to do when they run out of Vancian allotments, to still work within their profession. Like those silly illusions with extremely limited time and application use. The banana peel cantrip comes to mind, as well a puff of air to flicker candles, etc. Nothing really big in an of itself, but if used right, then so be it that such a little freebie could do massive damage. Like the banana peel causing something to fall off a cliff to its death....that isn't the spell, just good tactics by a savvy caster. Of course they would have to be figured out for each spell users. Cantrips, orisons, etc.

[Username17]

Things that are, or can be, analogous to working for a living - such as long term conjuration, fabrication, and healing should indeed be limited by time. I suggest drawing on things that are more explicit than "per day" like "per full moon" - but really, whatever.

Magical combat actions should just give you random options each turn. Any resource management system for combat spells is just there to make people be more interesting to watch than an Akuma player. There's really no reason or benefit to bother keeping track of resource expenditures from round to round.

-Username17

[tzor]

As much as I love “Vancian” magic, the dichotomy between slotted power units (casters) and unlimited, useable almost every round (fighters) makes balancing things downright impossible. People want the best of both at the same time.

So I am tempted to go with the way 4E does things now. The problem is that there is no technical problem for a fighter to hack at things 24/7 but there is for a caster to cast 24/7. The idea of “combat” being the only medium for spells is arbitrary nonsense. Therefore there needs to be something else that could be equally applied to fighters as well as casters. A fatigue system would be a nice way to handle this without the arbitrary nonsense of 4E terminology.

(In fact the 4E system of combat / non combat could be called a crappy way of putting fatigue into the game, considering how tightly controlled the encounter guidelines are for adventures.)

[CatharzGodfoot]

A fatigue system would be a nice way to handle this without the arbitrary nonsense of 4E terminology.

Yeah, the nice thing about "fatigue" is how it seems reasonable for both magical and physical performances.

[TavishArtair]

Sounds like the Bio-Mage. Crazy..

That Bio-Mage seems to be the worst class, ever. Worse than the 3.5 Wilder. A class that actively kills you if you use you class abilities?! Oh Rule 34, I curse thee for thy unending torment. That I now must live my life knowing something so filled with fail in the purest form exists, is too much to bear. My life shall be as hollow and empty as the cursed knowledge that has made me thus: That which is seen may never be unseen.

Rule 34 is "if it's on the internet, there's porn of it." So what you're talking about is apparently porn of people who kill themselves using their magic. So magical snuff sex? Yeah, there's porn of it. But really.

[Hicks]

[d'oh ]Clearly, you are misquoting me. I believe my post was edited to be rule 30.[/d'oh]

[Rathe]

For a spell system, I'd like have them like act building blocks with feat selection enhancing them, whereby high level spells are reflected by low level spells. The base spell might be (for example) a touch (or very short range) blast of X (where X is a element selection based on a feat that you can plug in) and it will increase in potency as you level with no cap. Feats like Ranged, Ray, Area of Effect etc. may be bought, and tacked onto the base spell as you wish. The spell itself would describe what the feat selected would do, hopefully this would help stem the spell writing bloat.

As for spell casting I'd rather go something like that would have a limited number of casts and spell selection (which could be changed with difficulty) by encounter, while mashing all the spell lists together and requiring you to take a theme. There would have to be built in limiters on some of the "non-encounter spells" (timers is one way) to ensure casters don't go hog wild out of combat.

[Username17]

It is interesting how many people say that they want the magic system from Ars Magica, yet how few of these people actually seem to want to play Ars Magica.

-Username17

[Caedrus]

What, exactly, is Ars Magica's system like?