Some Personal Classes made for 3.75 ed

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MGuy
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Some Personal Classes made for 3.75 ed

Post by MGuy »

With Pathfinder coming out next month and the core classes having received an overhaul I am revisiting some classes I had considered to overpowered to use in my normal game. As things are now they should be equal to what Paizo has done though I was never sure of their balance in the first place.

Ishvalan Crusader (Anti Mage): This is a class made with Fullmetal Alchemist in mind. I actually first saw this class on another site though the site is gone now.

HD: 1d12

Skills: Acrobatics, Climb, Disguise, Escape Artist, Heal, Intimidate, Knowledge: Arcana, Knowledge: Planes, Knowledge Religion, Perception, Profession, Sense Motive, Sleight of Hand, Spellcraft, Stealth, Survival, Swim

Skill Points: 4+Int

Weapon Proficiency: Simple

Base Attack Progression: Good (As Fighter)
Good Saves: All (As Monk)

LevelSavesAbilities
1+2/+2/+2Arcane Curse 1d6, Acrobatics, Mage Slayer, Mage Hunter
2+3/+3/+3Arcane Resistance, Track, Witch Hound
3+3/+3/+3Arcane Curse 2d6, Path Finder, Mettle
4+4/+4/+4Evasion, Unforgiving
5+4/+4/+4Arcane Curse 3d6, Mobility, Mage Finder
6+5/+5/+5Chain Curse, The Smell of Magic
7+5/+5/+5Arcane Curse 4d6, Break Magic
8+6/+6/+6Cursed Bolt, Improved Evasion
9+6/+6/+6Arcane Curse 5d6, Nondetection
10+7/+7/+7Spell Resistance, Dedicated, Disruption
11+7/+7/+7Arcane Curse 6d6, Nowhere to Hide
12+8/+8/+8Disruption Wave
13+8/+8/+8Arcane Curse 7d6, Nowhere to Run
14+9/+9/+9Spell Rending, Blank Thoughts
15+9/+9/+9Arcane Curse 8d6
16+10/+10/+10Eternal Hatred
17+10/+10/+10Arcane Curse 9d6
18+11/+11/+11Unstoppable
19+11/+11/+11Arcane Curse 10d6
20+12/+12/+12Mage Knightmare

Arcane Curse: Whenever striking a creature with an unarmed melee attack that is either a magical creation, or able to create any effect like any spell; the Crusader gains bonus damage dice to their attacks. These bonus damage dice may only be applied to attacks derived from Base Attack Bonus, and not from special effects like Haste. This damage is [Energy] damage, and ignores Hardness and Damage Reduction. Ignores miss chance from incorporeal creatures. If you are utilizing Two Weapon Fighting feats in conjunction with this ability; the Curse always counts as your primary weapon. It is never your secondary/off-hand weapon and does not provide bonus damage to such attacks.
-At 15th level+ Ignores Deflection Bonuses to AC.

Things that are included as viable targets are:
-Spell Casters
-Creatures with Spell Like Abilities
-Constructs
-Undead
-Creatures carrying magic items that create a magical effect (from a +1 Sword to a Staff of Shadows)
-Magical Traps
-A Liches Phylactery
-A Wizard's spellbook

If the Ishvalan Crusader multi-classes, they lose this ability unless they had at least 5 levels in the Crusader class. Crusaders lose this ability completely if it enters any arcane spell casting class.

Acrobatics (Ex): Whenever attacked, or forced to make a reflex save; a Crusader may make a Tumble check and use that as their AC or their Reflex Save. Crusaders lose this ability in light or heavier armor and/or when using a shield (Natural 1s do not equal automatic failure and natural 20s do not equal automatic success with this ability).

Mage Slayer (Ex): Bonus Feat. Gained at 1st Level.+1 on Will saves, Casters cannot cast defensively while threatened by you. Damage you inflict is considered "ongoing damage" for the purposes of concentration checks made before the beginning of your next round. All your attacks in a round are considered the same source of continuing damage. Your caster level for all spells and spell-like abilities that aren't granted by this class or your race are reduced by 4

Mage Hunter: You treat anything vulnerable to your Arcane Curse as your favored enemy. IE Creatures that are either of a magical creation, or able to create any effect like any spell.
-+2 to Bluff, Perception, Insight, and Survival checks made vs these creatures. Gains a +2 on damage rolls on such creatures (bonus damage is applied to the curse). The bonuses increase by 2 every 5 levels.

Arcane Resistance (Ex): Gained at 2nd Level. Adds Charisma bonus to Fortitude and Will saves vs spells and abilities that produce spell-like effects.

Track (Ex): Bonus Feat. Gained at 2nd Level.

Witch Hound(Su): Gained at 2nd Level. Your eyes glow. This means that you are constantly treated as having detect magic active and considered to be concentrating on it at no action cost. (Caster level is equal to Crusader level). Additionally whenever magic is cast within 100ft of your position you get a perception check (DC: 10+Spell level or vs Bluff if the caster is trying to hide it or is using Silent or still spell). If successful you know that magic was cast and the location of the caster. Though this is only a brief flash of insight and the caster may move from their position or may conceal themselves to hide their identity.

Mobility (Ex): Bonus Feat. Gained at 2nd Level.

Mettle (Ex): Gained at 3rd Level.

Pathfinder: Gained at 3rd level. Never becomes lost due to poor visibility or difficult terrain. Is not hampered by difficult terrain

Evasion (Ex):Gained at 4th level.

Unforgiving: Gained at 4th level. Any creature that uses any magic provokes an AoO from you. Even Supernatural and Extraordinary abilities that duplicate spells provoke AoOs from you; as well as using a magical item, even a continual-use item such as a magic sword or magic armour. If a creature is struck, one item that the target was using has it's magic suppressed for 1 round per two Class levels of the Spell Scourge..

Mage Finder: Gained at 5th level. You may disregard any Miss Chance that results from spells or spell-like abilities.
-When fighting a creature under the effect of Mirror Image, you automatically know which one is real
-Your caster level for all spells and spell-like abilities that aren't granted by this class or your race are reduced by 4

Chain Curse: Gained at 6th level. Whenever you deal damage with the Arcane Curse the you may channel some damage to another target. You must make a ranged attack to another target within 30ft. Your bonus for this extra attack is same bonus that you received from your last attack. If successful You may hit 2 secondary targets at 11th, and 3 at 16th.

The Smell of Magic: Gained at 6th level. The range at which you can detect a spell being cast increases to 200ft. Additionally you gain scent. You may make a Spellcraft check when you run into an area (within 20ft) in which magic has recently been cast (DC: 20+spell level) If successful you know what spell was cast.

Break Magic: Gained at 7th. Upon successfully striking with the Arcane Curse the Crusader may dispel (as greater dispel, CL equal to crusader level) any magical effect. (No caster level cap)
-Can be used against stationary spell effects (walls, extra dimensional holes, etc) on a touch
-A Crusader is unaffected by a harmful spell that he/she touches in their dispel attempt; unless they fail the dispel check. (IE The crusader can touch the wall of fire during the dispel attempt without any damage but if the check fails the crusader would take damage as they regularly would)

Cursed Bolt: Gained at 8th level. Can, as a standard action, send curse through ground at a target. This is treated as an unarmed ranged attack. If it hits your target and all enemies within a 10ft radius must make a balance check (DC: 10+1/2Character level+Charisma modifier) or fall prone. Aerial targets must make the same save or fall straight down from their position and take falling damage (cannot be slowed by any magical means). Additionally your threatening range is increases to 10ft vs creatures capable of casting or that have spell-like abilities.
-Range: Close- 25ft+5ft/2 levels
-Is chainable

Improved Evasion: Gained at 8th level

Nondetection: Gained at 9th Level: Is treated as if they are constantly under a nondetection spell

Disruption: (Ex): Starting at 10th level, if you hit a creature capable of casting spells or spell like abilities with your Arcane Curse in melee they must make a Fort save (DC 10+1/2 HD+Con mod) or be dazed for one round. This is chainable.

Spell Resistance: Gained at 10th level. Gains Spell Resistance equal to 15+Character level.

Dedicated: Gained at 10th level. Becomes immune to mind-affecting effects.

Nowhere to Hide: Gained at 11th level. The range at which you can detect a spell being cast increases to 300ft. Additionally when you successfully make a Spellcraft check to identify a spell, and you beat the DC by 5 or more you may mark the caster of the spell. This mark effect works like Locate Creature except you do not need to have been within 30ft of the caster before in order to gain its full benefits. The effect lasts 10min/level. Can only follow one target at a time. This is a supernatural ability.

Disruption Wave Gained at 12th Level. May use Disruption and Break Magic abilities on chains and in conjunction with Cursed Bolts. Both abilities effect all creatures and items in the radius of the Cursed Bolt's area of effect. Additionally your threatening range increases to 15ft vs creatures capable of casting or that have spell-like abilities.

Nowhere to Run Gained at 13th Level. When a Crusader designates a creature as a target for his Nowhere to Hide Ability his target is treated as though they were under the effects of Dimensional Anchor. This is a supernatural ability.

Cursed Rend: Gained at 14th level. Any instantaneous or Permanent spell result may be Disintigrated by the Ishvalan Crusader. Basically, they get Disintigrate at will; caster level is character level, no cap on caster level; and the DC is 10 + 1/2 HD + Cha mod.

Eternal Hatred: Gained at 16th level. You are treated as though you are under the constant effect of Mind Blank. If any creature uses a an ability that is blocked by Mind Blank that creature will be immediately subject to Phantasmal Killer (DC:10+1/2Character Level+Charisma modifier) in addition to failing.

Unstoppable: You are treated as always being under the effect of the Freedom of Movement spell. Additionally 1/day whenever you are magically imprisoned you may break free as though you cast the spell Freedom. (CL equal to your character level)

Mage Knightmare: Gained at 20th level. Becomes immune to arcane spells. Your threat range increases to 20ft vs creatures capable of casting spells and creatures that use spell-like abilities.


Restrictions: loses bonus movement/dodge bonus/AC bonus from wearing armor or while carrying a medium load
-Can't cross into a casting class, Loses all arcane mark abilities


I want to add abilities for levels 10+ but I don't know what I should add to it. I'm thinking Immunity to enchantment effects. Feel Free to give suggestions.
Also I keep the idea that you can switch the bane powers to effect psions and divine magic (I.E psychic hunters or god haters) depending on the spin you want to put on it.


Noble: From the Dragonlance campaign setting, tweaked from the optional noble abilities from the Races of Ansalon and also influenced by the Noble from Star Wars Saga and Oriental Adventures.

HD: d6

Skills: Appraise, Bluff, Craft, Diplomacy, Disguise, Intimidate, Knowledge: All (each taken individually), Linguistics, Perception, Perform, Profession, Ride, Sense Motive

Skill Points: 6+Int

Weapon Proficiencies: Simple, All light and One handed Martial Weapons
Armor Proficiency: Light

Bab: medium (As Monk)

LevelSavesAbilities
1+0/+0/+2Skill Focus/Veratility, Style and Grace, Sworn Sword, Gossip, Favor, Wealth, Undying Loyalty
2+0/+0/+3Ideal Will, Combat Expertise, Command Cover, Noble Path
3+1/+1/+3Undying Loyalty
4+1/+1/+4Noble Path, Coordinated +1
5+1/+1/+4Skill Focus/Veratility, Undying Loyalty
6+2/+2/+5Noble Path, Improved Expertise
7+2/+2/+5Undying Loyalty, Willful Resolve
8 +2/+2/+6Coordinated +2, Noble Path
9+3/+3/+6Undying Loyalty
10+3/+3/+7Noble Path, Skill Focus/Versatility
11+3/+3/+7Undying Loyalty
12+4/+4/+8Coordinated +3, Noble Path, Willful Resolve 2/day
13+4/+4/+8
14+4/+4/+9Noble Path
15+5/+5/+9Skill Focus/Versatility
16+5/+5/+10Noble Path, Coordinated +4
17+5/+5/+10Willful Resolve 3/day
18+6/+6/+11Noble Path
19+6/+6/+11
20+6/+6/+12Skill Focus/Versatility, Noble Path, Coordinated +5

Style and Grace: gained at 1st Level. Nobles receive a +5 bonus to any charisma based skills on which they obtain skill focus (replaces +3).
-Increases to +10 for skills with 10 or more ranks (replaces +6)

Skill Focus or Versatility: Gained at first and again at 5th level and every 5 levels afterward.
-Note: Versatile: Select 2 skills and they become class skills.

Sworn Sword (Yojimbo): Gains a cohort (as through leadership. You must provide weapons and lodging for him/her. Until 3rd level the sword remains a warrior (as NPC class)
-Gains followers at appropriate time through this ability. Cannot take leadership feat (is treated as if they already have it).
-Gains Bonus Hp equal to your 1/2 the noble's level+his charisma modifier at 1st level and every time the noble levels up.
-Losing this cohort carries all of the relevant penalties, no matter who is at fault for the sword's death.
-Cohort is essentially controlled by the player who retains it. Cohort is also built by the player as their life is sworn to the PC.
-Cohort's stats follow the elite array.
-Unlike other Cohorts once this one is lost it is not easily replaced and the PC must return to their family/benefactor and pay 100gp/CR of the next Sworn Sword in order to replace. Another cohort may not be gained in any other way, and this cohort cannot be traded in.
-Gains Levels as the PC does (still following the max rules as in leadership)
-The Sworn Sword gains experience a the normal rate if the Noble ever cross classes. This continues even if the noble changes back to the class.

Favor: Gained at 1st Level. Nobles may make a special Diplomacy check to curry favors (equipment, lodging, a hideout, plot advancement, etc) in lands that they or their family/benefactor are known in. DC is set by the DM as appropriate to the situation.
-For more Static DCs: DC:20 for a simple favor, DC: 25 for tedious, DC: 30 for risky, DC: 40 for once in a life-time

Wealthy: Gained at 1st Level. A noble is naturally wealthy, whether it be through their family or their connections they are able to gain and retain their wealth. Nobles start off with a piece of masterwork equipment. In addition They receive a stipend of 500gp/level starting at 1st level and every level thereafter. (IE at third level they receive 1500gp)
-The PC must visit an area and meet with their people in order to receive the stipend.
-Their must be at least 1 month between receiving this stipend even if multiple levels are gained.

Gossip: Gained at 1st level. Upon hearing of a person/place/thing a noble may make a gossip check. It works as a knowledge check with the nobleman's class level + charisma modifier replacing their ranks and intelligence (if they have it) on the check.

Undying Loyalty: Gained at 1st Level. Your Sworn sword gains Toughness amd becoms immune to charm effects. When next to your Sworn Sword you may redirect 1 attack that would hit you this round toward him (Compare the attack roll to the Sword's AC and resolve as normal)
-At 3rd level when you redirect the attack you add 1/2 your class level to your minion's AC and becomes immune to mind-affects.
-At 5th level when you redirect the attack you add your full class level to the Sword's AC. Additionally the Sword may make an AoO against the enemy (This stacks with similar abilities)
-At 7thThe Best Defence: When you make an attack against a creature, that creature gets a -1 to hit you for every Sworn Sword and ally that threatens it or that can hit it with a ranged attack. Additionally your Sworn Sword becomes immune to fear effects.
-At 11th Your Sworn Sword becomes immune to divination spells

Ideal Will: Gained at 2nd level. May use your Charisma bonus in place of your Wisdom bonus to Will saves.

Command Cover: Gained at 2nd level. A Noble gains a +1 cover bonus to AC equal to the number of allies that are adjacent to him. This increases to +2 at level 6.

Combat Expertise: Gained at 2nd Level

Coordinated: At 4th level when a noble uses aid another they get a +1 bonus to the aid. This bonus increases by 1 every 4 levels thereafter.

Willful Resolve: At 7th level you may negate any action taken against you that requires a Will Save. This can be done 1/day+ 1/5levels there after

Noble Paths A Noble may select one of the following paths. Once selected he may gain abilities from the selected path at second level and every 2 levels there after. A noble may not change a path once he's started it.

Court of the Iron Fist Abilities:
Voice: You may use your Charisma modifier in place of your Wisdom modifier on Sense motive checks. 1/day a Noble may add their level to a Charisma based check. You may not use this bonus to modify a Court Ability.

Taunt and Rally: As a standard action you can taunt your enemies and rally your allies. Gives a +1 to all checks, attacks, and damage to all allies withing 50ft. All enemies in 50ft take a -2 to all checks/attacks. Effects 1 enemy/2 levels. Will (DC: 10+1/2HD+Charisma Modifier) negates. Both effects last for 1 round/level. If the noble is struck during the effect they must make a fort save (10+damage dealt) to keep the effect going. This is a mind-affecting ability.

Fearful Presence(Ex): All enemies of your HD or lower take a -1 penalty on attacks and opposed rolls vs you. (fear effect)
-Can be taken (Fearsome Reputation) again to increase the penaltes to 2 and make foes who miss you (for whatever reason) dazed for 1 round. (fear effect)
-Can be taken a third time (Notorious) to increase the penalties to -4. Additionally any enemy that attacks you suffers a -2 on will saves until the end of your next turn.(fear effect)
-Can be taken a 4th time (Iron King) to increase the penalties to -6. Additionally you may roll two dice when making intimidation checks and use the higher of the two.(fear effect)

Begone Knaves! May make a swift action to force all enemies that threaten a target ally (or self) to shift 5 ft away from them (or you). Usable only 1/round. (fear effect)
-Can be taken a second time (Intimidating Defense): Can make an intimidate check in reaction to being hit by an enemy. If successful the target takes a -5 to all attacks against you until the end of their next turn. Only usable 1/round.(fear effect)
-Can be taken a third time (Fluster:) If you successfully hit against a creature that targeted you last round you can make an intimidation check If successful that creature can only take a swift action on their next turn. (Weakness is my Strength Applies). Usable 1/minute(fear effect)
-Can be taken a fourth time (Panic). When an attack misses you or an ally you may redirect the attack to another target within range of the enemy that missed the attack. This works on ranged attacks, though the new target on these must be within 10ft of the original target. Usable 1/round. (fear effect)

Your Life is Mine When an enemy is below 1/4 their hp you can, as a move action, make an intimidate check to force them to surrender (works essentially as panic). Panic status lasts for a number of rounds equal to your Charisma modifier. Can only be used a number of times/day equal to your Charisma modifier. (fear effect)
-Can be taken a second time (Impose Will). Enemies that are panicked by the Your Life is Mine ability must make a save (Will DC: 10+1/2your character level+Charisma modifier) to break the status premeaturely if struck or somehow otherwise provoked. (fear effect)
-Can be taken a third Time (Impose Fear). When a foe is below 1/2 their Hp you may, as a standard action, make an intimidation check against them. If successful you force them to make an attack at their highest bonus to one target of your choice within their range.(fear effect)
-Can be taken a fourth time (True Betrayal). 1/day you mat make an intimidation check against a target. If successful you dominate them (as dominate person/monster). The subject must be able to understand you. You cannot receive the sensory input of the subject. This cannot be blocked by spells like protection from evil. Spells that otherwise block mind effects (from any source) prevent this ability. A subject gets a Will save as normal (DC:10+1/2 character level+Charisma modifier). (fear effect)
-Can be taken a 5th time (Eyes of the Ruler). All enemies within 10ft must make a Will save (DC: 10+1/2your character level+Charisma bonus) or lose all moral, insight, and competence bonuses. Hit or miss they cannot be effected by this ability again for 24hours. Creatures immune to mind-affects are immune to this ability. (fear effect)

Fist of the Emperor: Abilities can be channeled through Sworn sword. Sworn Sword's Line of sight counts as the Noble's line of sight.
-May be taken a second time (Zealous Follower): If you aid your Sworn Sword on an attack, the damage done doubles.Your Cohort also gives a +4 bonus when aiding you. Also your Sworn Sword becomes replaceable for free and can be replaced after 24hours after dying. This imposes no penalties to your leadership score.

Weakness is my Strength: When making an opposed mental check the opponent must use their lowest mental stat (Wis/Int/Cha). Requires 1 previous Court Ability.

Mastermind: The noble's cohort takes the leadership feat at the next opportunity (must meet requirements). Requires 3 previous Court Abilities. Your Sworn Sword's Cohorts also receive the benefits from Fist of the Emperor and Zealous Follower.

Noble Fencer Abilities

Noble Fencing Style: You may use your Charisma instead of strength on attacks with any light weapon, rapiers, whips, and spiked chains (along with any other weapon that can benefit from the weapon finesse feat)

Witty Defence: Can add your Charisma bonus to your AC as long as you are in light armor.

The Better Part of Valor: A Noble may add their Charisma modifier as a dodge bonus to their AC.

Leading by Example: Allies that can see and hear you provide a bonus +2 when flanking. You all also gain a +1 bonus to AC when adjacent to another ally.

Demoralizing Defense: If you strike an enemy you can opt to do only half damage. If you do the target takes a -5 penalty to hit you until your next turn.

Personal Affront: 1/per round you may make an immediate attack of opportunity against an enemy that has just struck you

Transposing Strike: When you strike an opponent you may opt to deal damage and immediately switch places with it. The movement does not provoke an attack of opportunity.

Competitive edge: You and a number of allies (up to your charisma modifier) may gain the quick draw feat and deal extra damage equal to your Charisma modifier on enemies who are denied their dexterity modifier to AC.

Deadly Reputation All enemies within 30ft that are at 1/2 their hp or below take a -2 to attack and skill checks. (Fear effect)
-Can be taken again (Deadly Display) May use a standard action to make a bluff check against all enemies within 30ft. If successful they become dazed until the end of your next turn. Cannot be effected by this ability (hit or miss) again for 24hours. Feinting becomes a move action.
-Can be taken a third time (Dirty Tricks)Feinting becomes a move action. Additionally whenever you successfully feint an enemy you may designate one ally. The enemy is flatfooted toward that ally as well.

Out of Nowhere: Whenever you perform a successful feint you may make an immediate attack with any weapon that qualifies for the Noble Fencing style ability

Weapon Flourish: You may shift 10ft before or after a full attack while weilding a weapon that fits the Noble fencing style ability
May take a second time(Weaving Flourish). You may make a full attack as a standard action. Additionaly whenever an enemy misses you (for whatever reason) You may redirect the attack to another target that threatens you.

Superior Teamwork May make a Gossip check to know any 1 (+1 trait for every 5 that you beat the DC) trait(s) about your enemy. (This includes anything from creature type, Attack bonus with a particular weapon, AC Bonus, Save bonus, etc). Additionally allies may move an extra 10ft when moving toward an enemy or flank. (This bonus increases the range that the ally can tumble)


Field Commander Abilities
Coordinated Action: When you or another ally aid another ally's attack action and it hits an extra die to damage. (IE if the noble aids a fighter with a long sword and he hits hthe fighter deals 2d8 damage + his strength modifier).
-May take again (Tactical Withdraw). You may use a move action to allow allies in your line of sight to withdraw as a swift action on their next turn.
-May take a third time (Tactical Superiority). You may use your movve action to allow all allies in your line of sight to shift. Lasts 1 round. Addditionally you and your allies in your line of sight gain a bonus +4 AC when utilizing cover. (this works with Command Cover)-
-You may take this feat a fourth time (Tactical Assault): Ypu may use a move action to designate a target. All allies that can see and hear you deal an extra d6 damage to target. In addition the target takes a cumulative -1 to AC every time it is hit.

Bolster Ally You may, as a standard action, bolster an ally. You give an ally a number of temporary hitpoints equal to your level+your Charisma modifier.
-Can be taken a second time (Rally Allies). You may, as a standard action Bolster all allies within 30ft.
-Can be taken a third time(Support Troops): You may drive your allies on. this allows you to take an immediate action to allow an ally to reroll a failed attack, save, or check. Additionally When an ally is reduced to 1/2 their hp and are within your line of sight you may automatically bolster them. Can only be triggered 1/minute per ally.
-Can take this a 4fourth time (Seize the Day). As a swift action you may target an ally within 60ft. you may remove one mind affect or fear effect from them and bolster them witha number of temporary hp equal to 10+your character level+your Charisma modifier. Can only be done 1/minute per ally. Additionally When ever an enemy is dropped below 0 you may, as an immediate action, designate an ally. You may bolster that ally.

Capable Leadermay, as a swift action, allow an ally to immediately take a move action. Additionally, during a Surprise Round, you may give up your action to allow nonsurprised allies to make a move action. Allies may opt to instead reroll their initiative and take the better result.
-Can be taken a second time(To ME!) May take standard to allow an ally to make a standard action. Additionally, if you are struck all allies within your line of sight can opt to shift 10ft as a reaction.
-Can be taken a third time (Team Leader) May take a full round action to allow an Ally to make an immediate full round action. Additionally, if an enemy successfully harms you, you may choose one ally within 10 ft of you. That ally gets a bonus to damage equal to your level + your Charisma modifier against that enemy on their next turn.
-Can be taken a fourth time (Field Commander). May, as a standard action, allow an ally to make a full attack against a taarget enemy within theeir range. Additionally, 1/turn, after you've been harmed by an enemy have an ally within 30ft immediately attack that enemy (You can assign the Team Leader bonus to this ally if they within range).


Samurai: This is a class was made with the idea of creating a kind of style similar to whats in the ToB. I've poured over a number of OA books and churned out the styles. I've modeled the styles like I did the Noble Paths that I made for the overhauled Noble Class. Both are inspired by The Star Wars Saga Edition set up.

HD: 1d10

Skills:

Crab: Climb, Craft, Intimidate, Knowledge: History, Knowledge: Local, Perception, Profession, Sense Motive, Swim

Crane: Acrobatics, Craft, Escape Artist, Knowledge: Geography, Perception, Perform, Profession, Sense Motive, Swim

Dragon: Climb, Escape Artist, Knowledge Arcana, Knowledge History, Knowledge Planes, Perception, Perform, Spellcraft, Use Magic Device

Phoenix: Appraise, Diplomacy, Heal, Knowledge Arcana, Knowledge Religion, Perception, Perform, Profession, Use Magic Device

Lion: Climb, Craft, Intimidate, Knowledge Nobility, Perception, Profession, Sense Motive, Survival, Swim

Scorpion: Acrobatics, Bluff, Disguise, Escape Artist, Intimidate, Perception, Sense Motive, Sleight of Hand, Stealth

Unicorn: Acrobatics, Appraise, Diplomacy, Handle Animal, Knowledge Nature, Perception, Profession, Ride, Survival

Raiden: Acrobatics, Climb, Craft, Diplomacy, Knowledge Geography, Perception, Profession, Sense Motive, Stealth

Iaijitsu: Acrobatics, Craft, Diplomacy, Escape Artist, Intimidate, Knowledge History, Knowledge Nobility, Perception, Sense Motive

Shadow: Acrobatics, Bluff, Disguise, Escape Artist, Intimidate, Knowledge Planes, Perception, Sense Motive, Stealth

Skill Points: 2+Int

Weapon Proficiency: Simple and Martial

Armor Proficiency: Light, Medium, and Shields

Base Attack Progression: Good (As Fighter)

Good Saves: Fort/Will (as Fighter)
LevelSavesAbilities
1+2/+0/+2Ancestral Weapons, Ki Pool, Way of The Warrior
2+3/+0/+3Way of The Warrior
3+3/+1/+3Technique
4+4/+1/+4Way of The Warrior
5+4/+1/+4Technique
6+5/+2/+5 Way of The Warrior
7+5/+2/+5Technique
8+6/+2/+6Way of The Warrior
9+6/+3/+6Technique
10+7/+3/+7Way of The Warrior
11+7/+3/+7Technique
12+8/+3/+8Way of The Warrior
13+8/+4/+8Technique
14+9/+4/+9Way of The Warrior
15+9/+4/+9Technique
16+10/+5/+10Way of The Warrior
17+10/+5/+10Technique
18+11/+5/+11Way of The Warrior
19+11/+6/+11Technique
20+12/+6/+12Way of The Warrior

Ancestral Weaponry: All Samurai begin play with two masterwork Ancestral Weapons (selected at character creation). As the samurai gains levels they may awaken the abilities of (upgrade) the weapon, adding enchantment bonuses and special abilities depending on the level.
At any time, a samurai may retreat to a temple or shrine and spend time in prayer in order to awaken the ancestral spirits in Ancestral Weapons. This requires a sacrifice of valuable items and gold worth the amount shown on the table below.
This sacrifice does not have to be gold-the character can sacrifice magic items or other goods worth the required amount, rather than selling his goods (at half value) to pay for the sacrifice. The samurai must meet the minimum character level (including any prestige class levels) shown on the table, and he must spend one day per 1,000 gp sacrificed in the shrine or temple (or whatever place that seems appropriate). During this time, he must spend at least 8 hours each day kneeling before his ancestors and his weapons, not stopping to eat or rest . Many samurai request the assistance of a shugenja (or whomever is appropriate) in this process, but a shugenja is not required.
The values shown on the table are the total value of sacrifice required to bring a single weapon to the listed weapon bonus. (IE) If a samurai already has a +3 katana, he can raise it to a +4 katana by sacrificing 7,000 gp and spending a week in prayer. If the same samurai wanted to bring his masterwork wakizashi to a +1 wakizashi, he would have to sacrifice 1,000 gp. All ancestral weapons carry the Ghost Touch Property, have +10 hardness, and double the Hp of a regular weapon of its type. It uses double your save to resist any attempt to break it. While masterwork its latent supernatural powers do not cause it to be considered a magic weapon until those powers are awakened when it receives its first enchantment bonus.
A samurai who loses his ancestral swords is dishonored until he can recover them. He cannot enhance any other weapon in this way. If it is broken you must have it repaired at its normal cost.
Additionally a samurai is always treated as having proficiency (or Exotic Weapon Proficiency) with his selected weapons.
Weapon BonusTotal Sacrifice RequiredMinimum Character Level
+11000gp 3rd
+24,000 gp5th
+39,000 gp7th
+416,000 gp9th
+525,000 gp11th
+6*36,000 gp13th
+7*49,000 gp15th
+8*64,000 gp17th
+9*81,000 gp19th
+10* 100,000 gp20th

*A weapon can't actually have a bonus higher than +5 . Use these lines to determine price when special abilities are added in . Example: A samurai who has a +4 katana can transform it into a +4 thundering katana with a sacrifice of 20,000 gp, since thundering is a special ability equivalent to a +2 bonus

Ki Pool: A Samurai retains a pool of ki. They retain a number of ki points a day equal to their Samurai level plus their Wisdom modifier. Each Way of the warrior style usually changes the relevant ability modifier for this however. Before making any attack roll, skill check, or saving throw, you may spend a ki point, as a free action 1/round, to gain a +2 on your roll. you may also spend a point to gain a +2 ki bonus to your armor. You may not spend more than 1 point this way per round (Though other abilities may allow you to do so, ki bonuses always stack with other ki bonuses).
Ki points cannot be spent while frightened or panicked. Ki points are recovered after a full 8 hour rest or after a ten minute meditation In which the Samurai makes a concentration check (10+Character Level) to regain all their points. All abilities that use these points are considered extraordinary abilities and only last for 1 round unless otherwise noted.
This Ki Pool does not stack with other ki pools. When entering or coming from a class with a ki pool the levels of the classes stack with this one for the purposes of determining the number of ki points per day.

Way of the Warrior: There are various Warrior paths a samurai may take. At the start of each warrior path is a Way of the Sword. At 1st level a Samurai selects a path. They receive the Way of the Sword for that path at first level. At second level and every 2 levels thereafter you may select an ability from that path or start another path. If you change your path the skills that count as your class skills change along with it along with the modifier you use to determine your daily allotment of skill points.

Techniques: At 3rd, 5th, 7th, 9th, 11th, 13th, 15th, 17th, and 19th level you may select a technique from the technique list appropriate for that level. Each technique counts utilizes ki points and counts as a feat (may be taken up by other classes). Feats generally tend to be more useful in to one Way of the Sword over another.

(the techniques will be listed here later. For now I am keeping them listed under their relevant style.)


Crab-Emphasize heavy armor, great fortitude, and toughness.
Bonus Feats:

Armor Proficiency (heavy), Endurance, Power Attack (Cleave, Improved Bull Rush, Sunder, Great Cleave), Exotic Armor Proficiency, Great Fortitude, Greater, Tower Shield Proficiency, Diehard, Improved Shield Bash

Outside the PHB:
Armor Specialization (PHB2), Improved Toughness (CWar), Monkey Grip (CWar), Overwhelming Assault (PHB2), Stalwart: +4 to resist Bullrush, Overrun, and Trip, Active Shield Defence (PHB2), Steadfast Determination (PHB2), Improved Buckler Defence (CWar), Improved Toughness(Cwar), Shield Charge (CWar), Shield Slam (CWar), Shield Sling (PHB2), Shield Specialization (PHB2), Crutal Strike (PHB2), Cometary Collision (PHB2), Slay (PHB2), Close-Quarters Fighting (CWar), Heavy Armor Optimization (RoS), Heavy Armor Optimization (RoS)


Way of the Crab: You gain Heavy Armor Proficiency. Your normal speed and maximum speed are unaffected by armor. Your Max Dex in heavy armor is increased by one and the armor check penalties are reduced by one. This feat counts as Heavy Armor Proficiency for the purposes of meeting the perquisites for other feats. Additionally you may fore go one or both of your Ancestral Weapons to receive Ancestral Armor and/or an Ancestral Shield. If you do this your Ancestral Armor and/or Shield provides you with DR equal to your samurai level. If you have both you receive DR equal to 1 1/2 your level (rounded down). You gain ki points equal to your Samurai level+your Constitution Modifier.


Presence of the Mountain: Gained at second level. You are not effected by encumbrance. Additionally you use your Constitution bonus to determine your carrying capacity. You and each ally within 30 ft. of you deals 1d6 extra damage on every attack and has save DCs increased by 1 for every 10 hit points they are below their maximum. You gain the bonus of the most damaged ally.

Will of the Mountain: Gained at 4th level. Use Con bonus on will saves, Uncanny Dodge, Soul of the Mountain: You gain a permanent +2/4 samurai levels to Constitution score

Mettle: Gained at 6th level.

Skin of the Mountain: Gained at 6th level. Add Con as Natural bonus to AC

Improved Uncanny Dodge Gained at 8th level.

The Unshakable Mountain Gained at 10th level. Negate effects of 1 Spell/Day that would harm you in anyway. This can be activated after your save and after you know what the effects would be. In Using this ability you are essentially hit with the spell but "shake it off". You gain an additional uses of this ability every 2 levels hereafter. IE 2/day at 12th and 3/day at 4th.

Repulsion Gained at 14th level. You are treated as if you're under the effect of the Repulsion Spell. This can be suppressed and reactivated as a free action.

The Unmovable Mountain: Gained at 20t level. As long as are not moving you are treated as having total cover against ranged attacks/spells/abilities (You may still attack/defend and do various other things as long as you stay in one spot, teleporting or being forcibly moved ends this effect), Negate 5 Spells/Day.

Way of the Mountain Techniques:
Armor of the Rock Technique: You may spend a ki point to add your Constitution Bonus as a deflection bonus to AC.
Crumbling Rock Technique: You may spend a ki point on any successful attack to sacrifice hp to deal more damage on any attack. You may deal an extra 1d6/2hp sacrificed. You may not sacrifice more hp then your Constitution Score.
Avalanche Technique: A Crab Warrior who is fighting defensively may spend a ki point any time an ally is damaged to move adjacent to the source if it is in close range (25'+5'/2 levels) and may make a full attack against it. You always move adjacent to the real source of the damage not perceived sources.
Improved Avalanche: If you hit with the Avalanche technique you may immediately immobilize your target.
The Mountain Does Not Move: You may, as an immediate or free action, spend a ki point to ignore the effects of dazed, disabled, dying, fatigued, nauseated, paralyzed, staggered, stunned, and unconscious. Dying characters do not lose hp from bleeding while using this ability. Characters who reach -10 hp die (or at whatever point equals death in your campaign). This feat does not end the status effect, it merely suppresses it.
Advanced Avalanche Technique: If you hit with the Avalanche technique you may opt to paralyze your opponent.
Superior Avalanche Technique: Upon hitting with the Avalanche Technique you may opt to inflict dimensional anchor on your target.
Master Avalanche Technique: Every Successful Avalanche hit becomes a confirmed critical.
Kami Avalanche Technique: If you hit with the Avalanche technique the target loses their next turn.

Crane-Emphasizes speed, movement, and agility.
Bonus Feats:
Acrobatic, Agile, Combat Reflexes, Dodge (Mobility, Spring Attack), Expertise (Improved Disarm, Improved Trip, Whirlwind Attack), Improved Initiative, Lightning Reflexes, Run.

Outside the PHB: Brachiation (Cadv), Dash(Cwar), Fleet of Foot(CWar), Roofwalker(RoD), Flick of the Wrist(CWar), Evasive Reflexes (ToB) , Bounding Assault (PHB2), Combat Tactition (PHB2), Expeditious Dodge (RotW), Melee Evasion (PHB2), Rapid Blitz (PHB2), Danger Sense (CAdv), Acrobatic Strike (PHB2), Combat Acrobat (PHB2)


Way of the Crane: Gain a +2 competence bonus to initiative checks and you are treated as having Quick Draw when weilding your ancestral weapon. This feat counts as having Quick Draw for the purposes of meeting the prequisits for other feats.


One with the Wind: You may add your Dex bonus to attacks made with your Ancestral Weapons (even if they are not normally applicable). You are treated as having Weapon Finesse for the purposes of meeting the requirements for other feats.
-Stroke of Wind: May spend a ki point while using their ancestral weapons to add their Dex bonus to damage
-Wind Blade: When using an ancestral weapon you may increase the bonus to attack rolls given by ki point use tby 1+1/4levels. (IE +3 per point at 6th level, +4 per point at 8th).
-Luck of the Wind: May spend 1 ki point, as a swift action, to gain a +10 to the highest attack roll made that round. (only usable 1/round)
-Soul of the Wind: Gains a permanent +2 bonus to Dexterity score. May be taken multiple times. Bonuses provided by this ability can never exceed your Samurai level/2 rounded down.
-Leaf in the Wind: May spend a ki point as an immediate action after being struck to prevent 1 damage/Dexterity modifier.


Defensive Weaving: you gain an additional +1 to dodge vs targets of the dodge feat and when fighting defensively.
-Defensive Awareness: Gains Uncanny dodge. Can be taken more than once. If you do this you gain improved uncanny dodge. There after you gain trapsense as a rogue of equal level. If you have uncanny dodge or improved uncanny dodge from other classes taking this counts as if you have taken it once (for uncanny dodge) or twice (for uncanny dodge) before.
-Combat Dive: You gain Improved Evasion. This can be taken again to gain Improved Evasion. It can be taken again to gain Defensive Roll (works as rogue's ability) If you have Evasion or Improved Evasion from another class taking this ability counts as if you have already taken it once (for Evasion) or twice (Improved Evasion) before.


Defensive Refocus: Can as a swift action while making a total defense action spend a ki point to move up in the initiative count. You are then treated as if they rolled a 20 on the initiative check.
-Sudden Strike: You gain a +2 to attack against anyone whose initiative total is lower than yours as long as you are wielding your ancestral weapons.
-.Burst of Speed: You may spend a ki point to gain a +4 bonus to your initiative check at the begining of any combat. Additionally you may refocus as a move action.
-Hoturi's Speed: May, as a free action, spend a ki point to reroll one missed attack roll. (only usable 1/round)
-Speed of Kami: If your initiative check is higher than your opponent's by 10 or more you may use a ki point (1/round) to gain an additional attack at your highest bonus against that opponent.


Moving the Shadow: Can spend ki point to gain dodge bonus vs a single opponent equal to the opponent's armor check penalty to AC.


Hoturi's Poise: May add 1/2 Samurai level to Balance/Escape Artist checks


Dragon-Teaches two-weapon fighting, unarmed combat, and fighting against magic.
Bonus Feats:
Improved Unarmed Strike (Improved Grapple, Deflect Arrow, Snatch Arrow, Stunning Fist). Improved Shield Bash, Quick Draw, Two Weapon Fighting (Two Weapon Defense, Improved Two Weapon Fighting, Greater Two Weapon Fighting), Improved Natural Attack (Though it is in the Monster Manual)

Outside of the PHB: Dual Strike(Cadv), Greater Two Weapon Defense (CWar), Improved Two Weapon Defense (CWar), Oversized Two-Weapon Fighting (CAdv), Two-Weapon Pounce (PHB2), Two-Weapon Rend (PHB2), Defensive Throw (PHB2), Clever Wrestling (CWar), Eagle Claw Attack (CWar), Earth's Embrace (CWar), Flying Kick (CWar), Roundabout Kick (CWar), Versatile Unarmed Strike (PHB2), Superior Unarmed Combat (ToB), Snap Kick (ToB), Pin Shield (CWar)


Way of the Dragon: When fighting with your two Ancestral weapons at the same time (one in each hand) you are treated as having Two Weapon Fighting. You count as having Two Weapon fighting for the purposes of meeting the prequisits for other feats. Alternatively you may designate one weapon and your unarmed strike as your ancestral weapons. If this is done you gain Improved Unarmed Strike and Weapon Focus (Fist). Using your unarmed strike counts as part of (or completely) wielding your two ancestral weapons necessary for this ability.


Elemental Attunement: When making a successful save against a spell or a spell like ability with an element they may avoid all of the effects of the spell (as evasion and mettle).
-Dragon Channeling: When a spell is cast upon them they can opt to apply maximize spell to it. -Can be taken more than once to add Empower to any spell cast on you.
-Dragon's Talons: Upon successfully striking a caster or creature with spell-like abilities you may immediately expend one ki point to make the victim your target. If your target attempts to cast a spell/manifest a power/use a spell-like ability you may force the creature to make a concentration check equal to the damage done+the level of the spell. If they fail their spell automatically fails. This last until the end of your next turn. You may only mark any one target once in a round.
-Dragon's Skin: You gain spell resistance equal to 15 plus your character level.
-Dragon's Teeth: Upon successfully striking an opponent you may expend 2+ ki points upon striking an enemy to prevent the victim from casting spells for a number of rounds equal to 1+1/every 2 additional ki points used.


One with the Sword: If you are using your two ancestral weapons you gain a +2 bonus to attack that may be distributed to either weapon as the user sees fit. This bonus increases by +1 every 3 levels.
-Daisho Stance: You gain a +1 shield bonus to AC (+1/3levels).
-Niten: When using your two ancestral weapons you may gain an additional +2 (+1/4levels) shield bonus to AC on any round that you do not use your offhand weapon to attack. If utilizzing this you suffer no penalty to their primary weapon attack rolls.
-Togashi's Technique: When using your two ancestral weapons you may gain 2 extra attacks a round at your highest Bab to your full attack action. All of your attacks suffer a -5 penalty and this may not be used in conjunction with Improved Two Weapon Fighting. You are treated as if you have Improved two Weapon Fighting for the purposes of meeting the prequisits for other feats.


Dragon's Eyes: You may use this feat to focus your attention on one opponent within 5ft. if this opponent is invisible ethereal, or concealed you may attack him with no penalty or miss chance. If you are unaware of an invisible or ethereal creature within 5ft you automatically become aware of them. This is an extraordinary ability.


Tail of the Dragon: Your off hand attacks gain the same Strength bonus to damage as if they were your primary hand. All off hand weapons are treated as if they were light weapons for the purposes of determing the TWF penalty.



Lion-Emphasizes power, ferocity, and strength of will .
Bonus Feats:
Endurance (Diehard), Combat Reflexes, Improved Initiative, Iron Will, Power Attack (Cleave, Great Cleave, Improved Bullrush, Improved Overrun, Improved Sunder), Toughness

Outside of the PHB: Improved Toughness (CWar), Daunting Presence (LM), Goad (CAdv), Monkey Grip (CWar), Overwhelming Assault (PHB2), Death Blow (CAdv), Lunging Strike (PHB2), Prone Attack (CWar), Leap Attack (CAdv), Powerful Charge (and Greater, Eb), Close-Quarters Fighting (CWar), Defensive Sweep (PHB2), Hold the Line (CWar), Improved Combat Reflexes (CWar), Robilar's Gambit (PHB2), Brutal Strike, Cometary Collision (CWar), Flay (PHB2). Intimidating Strike (PHB2) , Kiai Shout (CWar), Greater Kiai Shout (CWar)


Way of the Lion: You gain a +2 competence bonus to your attack roll if your opponent has any armor/natural bonus to AC. Your total bonus may not exceed the total bonus gained by that armor/natural armor bonus. Additionally you gain Power Attack as long as you are weilding your ancestral weapon. You are treated as having Power Attack for the purposes of meeting the prequisits for other feats.


Lion's Roar: Can spend a ki point as an immediate action to make an intimidate check opposed by the target's Will. If successful the target loses one attack that round.
-Lion's Pride: You gain a +2 insight bonus to attack rolls when you (and your allies) are outnumbered.
-The Lion's Claws: Can spend a ki point immediately after missing an attack to sacrifice a later attack that you are allowed to make this rounnd to gain a +5 on the current attack. Can use more than 1/round. The effects are cumulative.
-Lion's Fury: You may, as a swift action, spend a ki point to double their strength bonus to attack/damage this round.
-Lion's Ferocity: If you succeed on a melee attack by an amount greater than what is needed to succeed, you gain half the difference (rounded up) as a bonus to your next attack roll against the same opponent in the same round. If this is not used before your next turn the bonus is lost.


Lion's Readiness: +2 to all Stealth and Percerption checks
-Lion's Hunt: Can spend time observing an unwary opponent. For every round spent observing you may add +2 on your next attack against that opponent. (max +10)
-Lion's Pounce: Can spend a ki point to gain 1 extra attack on any opponent that is denied their dexterity modifier this round. (only usable 1/round)
-Lion's Rage: When making a full attack action you may elect to make one attack with such speed that it strikes as if the opponent were flat-footed.
-Lion's Sacrifice: Can elect to lose your Dexterity bonus to AC for the round in order to make an extra attack as part of a full attack action at your highest attack bonus.


Lion's Eyes: (Bab 1+) You become immune to fear effects and give allies within 10ft a +4 bonus on saves vs fear effects.


Lion's Courage: You are immune to fear andll allies within 10ft gain a +4 save vs fear
-Lion's Grace: Add Charisma modifier to all saves.
-Lion's Presence: You may spend a ki point as a standard action to produce a fear effect in a ten foot radius (+10ft/5 level). The effect works as the Fear spell and lasts a number of rounds equal to your level. (DC: 14+Charisma modifier) This is an extraordinary ability.
-Lion's Soul: gains a permanent +2 to Strength. May be taken multiple times. Bonuses provided by this ability can never exceed your Samurai level/2 rounded down.
-Lion's Insight: If your power attack misses but would have hit had you not taken the attack penalty you may opt to lose the bonus damage and your strength bonus to damage in order to successfully hit.



Phoenix-Emphasizes mental, spiritual training, and the importance of protecting others.
Bonus Feats:
Alertness,Heavy Armor Proficiency. Blind-Fight, Combat Reflexes, Endurance, Expertise (Improved Disarm, Improved Trip, Whirlwind Attack), Improved Initiative, Iron Will, Improved Shield Bash, Tower Shield Proficiency, Quick Draw

Outside of the PHB: Indomitable Soul (PHB2), Communicator (CArc), Insightful (CArc), Necropolis Born (CArc), Night Haunt (CArc),Soul of the North (CArc), Spell Hand (CArc), Combat Intuition (CAdv), Hear the Unseen (CAdv), Eyes in the Back of Your Head (CWar), Active Shield Defense (PHB2), Agile Shield Fighter (PHB2), Improved Buckler Defense (CWar), Shield Charge (CWar), Shield Slam (CWar), Shield Sling (PHB2), Shield Specialization (PHB2), Shield Ward (PHB2), Quick Reconnoiter (CAdv), Keen-Eared Scout (PHB2), Armor Specialization (PHB2), Heavy Armor Optimization (RoS), Greater Heavy Armor Optimization (RoS)


Way of the Phoenix: While Wielding your Ancestral Weapon you may spend any number of void points on a single attack, saving, or skill roll. In addition You gain 2 bonus ki points.


Phoenix's Consumption: gain additional +3 ki points. Can take multiple times to gain more points. This can be taken multiple times. The effect stacks.
-Phoenix's Mercy: Spend a ki point as a swift action to heal a touched ally a number of damage equal to the remaining ki points.
-Phoenix Channeling: You may spend a ki point to help or hinder any spell that targets you. You may increase/decrease the effective caster level by one/point used. If the spell level is reduced to 0 you cancel the spell.
-Eternal Guardian: You can spend 1 ki point as a move action and designate one ally within 10ft. For that round (as long as you are concious and not attacking that ally) you grant that ally Damage reduction 10/+1. You can spend more ki points to increase it to 10/+2, 10/+3, etc.


Power of Self: Can spend 1 ki point to gain 1d6 temprary hp. Can spend more ki points to increase the die used. (IE. 2 ki points for 1d8) the tempporary hp lasts for 1 hour.
-Wings of Glory: Can spend a ki point as a free action to shift 2 spaces. (usable 1/round)
-Dancing with the Elements: Gain a +2 to saves vs spells/spell-like effects. (Can take multiple times the effects stack)
-Blaze: Can spend a ki point as a swift action to gain haste for this turn. (usable 1/round)
-Way of Fire: You can spend a ki point as a swift action to gain your maximum ki point total as a deflection bonus to AC. This bonus may be no greater than twice your character level.


One With All or Nothing: You may spend a ki point as a free action to apply your highest ability modifer (instead of the regular ability modifier) to any skill.attack, damage, or saving roll. (can only be done once a round)
-Fire of the Soul: can spend a ki point to add Wisdom modifier to attacks and damage this round.
-Flash Fire: You may spend 2 ki points at the beginning of a combat round to prevent yourself from being flat-footed. You may also use a ki point in reaction to an effect that denies you your Dex modifier to AC, effectively negating the effect, This does not prevent helplessness.
-Fire's Blessing: Permanent +2 to Wisdom. May be taken multiple times. Bonuses provided by this ability can never exceed your Samurai level/2 rounded down.


Eye's of the Phoenix: You may use this feat to focus your attention on one opponent within 5ft. if this opponent is invisible ethereal, or concealed you may attack him with no penalty or miss chance. If you are unaware of an invisible or ethereal creature within 5ft you automatically become aware of them. This is an extraordinary ability.


Mark of the Phoenix: You may spend a ki point to attune yourself to a living person/creature within 20ft. Thereafter you may spend more ki points to know their general direction from you. The feeling is only general and doesn't reveal anything beyond their general direction from you. Unwilling targets can make a Will save (DC: 10+1/2 your level+ Cha) to resist the effect. The effect lasts until you designate another target.This is a supernatural ability: Additionally you may spend a ki point to take damage for the marked if they are within 30ft.



Scorpion-Emphasize mobility, stealth, and dirty fighting.
Bonus Feats:
Acrobatic, Agile, Blind- Fight, Combat Reflexes, Deceitful, Dodge (Mobility, Spring Attack), Expertise (Improved Disarm, Improved Trip, Whirlwind Attack), Improved Initiative, Lightning Reflexes, Persuasive, Quick Draw, Stealthy, Weapon Finesse

Outside of the PHB: Brachiation (Cadv), Dash(Cwar), Fleet of Foot(CWar), Roofwalker(RoD), Flick of the Wrist(CWar), Evasive Reflexes (ToB), Combat Tactition (PHB2), Expeditious Dodge (RotW), Melee Evasion (PHB2), Rapid Blitz (PHB2), Acrobatic Strike (PHB2), Combat Acrobat (PHB2) , Spectral Skirmisher (PHB2), Death Blow (CWar), Arterial Strike (CWar), Concussion Attack (CSco), Crossbow Sniper (PHB2), Deafening Strike (CSco), Disemboweling Strike (CSco), Eldritch Erosion (CWar), Hamstring (CSco), Head Shot (CSco), Impeding Attack (CSco), Merciful Strike (CSco), Persistent Attacker (CSco), Staggering Strike (CAdv), Telling Blow (PH2), Throat Punch (CSco), Cunning Evasion (PHB2), Fade Into Violence (PHB2), Acrobatic Strike, Combat Acrobat (PHB2), Tumbling Feint (PHB2).


Way of the Scorpion: You may add your Intelligence Modifier to innitiative checks as well as your Decterity modifier. You may deal +1d6 damage upon targets that are denied their Dex bonus to AC. This works in all ways as (and stacks with) Sneak Attack as the rogue ability. You count as having Sneak Attack for the Purposes of meeting the prequisits for other feats.
-Deadly Strike: Inflict an additional 1d6 damage to opponents who are denied their Dex bonus to armor. This ability works as (and stacks with Sneak Attack). Can be taken multiple times to add aditional dice.


Scorpion's Venom: You gain Poison Use as the assassin ability. You also gain a +8 to sleight of hand checks made to conceal a weapon. Any time you Quick Draw a weapon, and in the same turn, use it against opponents who have not seen it you deal an extra 1d6 damage. This only works once per enemy. Createures of animal intelligence or lower and creatures immune to critical hits are immune to this ability.
-Opportunistic: May spend a ki point as a swift action to gain another attack against an opponent that is denied their dextrity bonus this round.
Stolen Secrets: May spend a ki point as an immediate action, may then make one ability or spell that you have seen before fail automatically. (usable 1/round)


Scorpion's Trick: Can feint as a move action. Gain +2 on the attampt vs humanoids. If successful you gain a +2 on the next attack roll.
-Scorpion's Claw: You gains Imrpoved Disarm even if you don't meet the prerequisits.
-Scorpion's Secrets: Gain a permanent +2 to Intelligence. May be taken multiple times. Bonuses provided by this ability can never exceed your Samurai level/2 rounded down.
-Strike at the Tail: If you successfully disarm your opponent in melee you may attack that opponent using the same attack bonus you used in the disarm attempt. You may alternatively use this attack to catch the weapon you disarmed in your offhand. You may only use this technique 1/round.
-The Pincers Hold, The Tail strikes: If you successfully feint in combat and attack your opponent while he is denied their Dex bonus to AC the attack automaticaly is a critical threat.
-Strike First, Strike Last: You may spend a ki point as an immediate action to gain a +4 on initiative. Additionally as an immediate action, if you move before your opponent, you can spend a ki point to deal an extra 1d6 damage to a single strike. This stacks with sneak attack though it can be used even against creatures immune to critical hits. Can spend an extra ki point to add another 1d6 though you cannot add more than 1/2 your level of extra dice.



Unicorn-Emphasize mounted combat, mounted archery, and an affinity for animals.
Bonus Feats:
Alertness, Animal Affinity, Skill Focus: Ride, Skill Focus: Handle Animal, Mounted Combat (Mounted Archery, Trample, Ride-By Attack, Spirited Charge)

Outside the PHB: Improved Mounted Archery (CWar), Coordinated Strike (CWar)

Way of the Unicorn: This skill counts as Mounted Combat and provides all the same benefits. Additionally you gain a +2 circumstance bonus from higher ground to all attacks while mounted.

Shinjo's Blessing: You gain a special animal companion. This may be a war dog (wolf), a falcon (hawk), or a steed (light or heavy warhorse). These act as normal animals of their kind except they have +2 HD, an Intelligence score of 6 , Evasion and an empathetic link (range 1 mile) with their master. With training you can command it empathetically. You may take this feat multiple times (Max 3). Each time it is taken the previous companion gains +2 HD and a +1 to Int along with Improved Evasion. The animal is otherwise treated as a magical beast. If a companion dies you must wait a month before it can be replaced. you can only receive a single steed in this way.
-Master of Steeds: Gain twice your Dex bonus to Ride checks. May take again to reduce the penalties for Mounted archery by 2. Additionaly you may make a ride check and use the result in plac of a reflex save while mounted (this benefit applies to both you and your mount. Also you may double all higher ground bonuses against opponents on foot.
-Shinjo's Steed: You may select once of your animal companions or your mount. It gains +10ft to its movement speed. ll your companions/mount gain +2 HD and +1 Intelligence. This ability may be taken multiple times.
-Legacy of Shinjo: May make an attack of ooportunity to anyone who anyone who attacks you in melee while you are mounted. (You get only your regular amount of AoOs a round)
-Way of the Rider: Your steed counts as having a huge build. Works as Large build but huge sized (IE natural attacks count as being 1 size larger). Additionally all your animal companions gain+2 HD and +1 Intelligence. May be taken multiple times. Each time it is taken you apply the relevant larger build to another animal companion.


Raiden-Specializes in dominating the field with ranged attacks.
Bonus Feats:
Combat Expertise (Improved Disarm, Improved Feint, Improved Trip, Whirlwind Attack), Improved Initiative, Mounted Archery, Point Blank Shot (Far Shot, Precise Shot, Improved Precise Shot, Rapid Shot, Many Shot, Shot on the Run)m Quick Draw, Rapid Reload,

Outside of the PHB: Able Sniper (RotW), Brutal Throw (CAdv), Crossbow Sniper (PHB2), Deadeye Shot (PHB2), Defensive Archery (RotW), Grenadier, Improved Rapid Shot (CWar), Penetrating Shot (PHB2)m Plunging Shot (RotW), Power Throw (CAdv), Ranged Disarm (CWar), Ranged Pin (CWar), Ranged Sunder (CWar), Sharp Shooting (CWar), Throw Anything (CWar), Zen Archery (CWar)

Way of the Storm: While wielding an Ancestral Weapon you gain Point Blank shot. In addition you you gain another ability depending on the type of ranged weapons they are.
-Bows: Your bow is always composite and adjusts to your Strength modifier. You gain a deflection bonus to AC depending on the size of the bow while using them. (Short: +2, Long: +1 Great: +1 Shield Bonus)
-Crossbows/Slings: Automatically reload themselves. Can be fired without aiming as a swift action. You lose your base attack bonus to the attack.
-Darts, Shuriken, Etc:- You are treated as having Quick Draw with them and you always have as many as you intend to throw in any given round. (Cannot be sold or seperated from their holster without intent to use or upgrade)
-Javelins, Throwing Axes, Etc: Automatically return to your hand after each use. This is a supernatural ability that cannot e stopped by any means. You may also mentally call it to your hand, if it is within 30ft, as a swift action.


Steady Clouds: Can, as a swift action, spend a ki point and take a penalty up to your Bab to AC and add the same to all attacks made that round.
-Blazing Rain: Gain a +2 to all damage rolls made with Ancestral Weapons. Counts as Weapon Specialization. Does not Stack with weapon Specialization.
-Power of the Storm: Can spend a ki point as a swift action to add class level to strength for 1 round.
-Dark Clouds: Gain a +2 bonus when attacking with your Ancestral Weapons. This counts as Greater Weapon Focus.
-Piercing Rain: May spend 1 ki point per attack to allow each ranged attacks to ignore damage reduction.
-Searing Rain: You gain a +4 bonus on all damage rolls made with your Ancestral Weapons. This counts as Greater Weapon Specialization and does not stack with it.
-Lightning Strike: May spend a 2 ki point/ranged attack. Each ranged attack that you spend it on takes the form of a 30ft line. You may make 1 attack against all creatures in a line.
-Acid Rain: You may pay 2 ki point/ranged attack. Each ranged attack that you spend this on ignores a creatures DR.


Iaijutsu: Emphasizes Striking first, striking fast, and striking last. This style may only be taken by those who choose a one hand bladed weapon as their Ancestral Weapon.
Bonus Feats:
Alertness, Blindfight, Combat Expertise(Improved Disarm, Improved Feint, Improved Trip, Whirlwind Attack), Combat Reflexes, Dodge (Mobility, Spring Attack), Improved Initiative, Weapon Finesse

Outside of the PHB: Brachiation (Cadv), Dash(Cwar), Fleet of Foot(CWar), Roofwalker(RoD), Flick of the Wrist(CWar), Evasive Reflexes (ToB) , Bounding Assault (PHB2), Combat Tactition (PHB2), Expeditious Dodge (RotW), Melee Evasion (PHB2), Rapid Blitz (PHB2), Danger Sense (CAdv), Acrobatic Strike (PHB2), Combat Acrobat (PHB2)


Way of the Single Blade: While weilding your Ancestral Weapon you are treated as having Quick Draw. Additionally you may shift 10ft (instead of just 5). Quick Draw in this case allows you to unsheathe and resheathe your weapon a number of times per round as you can attack.


Iaijutsu Strike: When attacking a flat footed opponent on a surprise round you may spend ki points to add 1d6 damage to the strike. (You cannot add more d6s then twice your level)
-Strike with no Thought: You may act in a surprise round (even if both parties are aware of each other) to do nothing but draw your Ancestral Weapon and attack. Alternatively if you are caught by surprise you may spend 3ki points to act within that surprise round.
-One Strike, Two Cuts: Can spend 2ki points as an immediate reaction to striking your opponent with your Ancestral Weapon. You deal double your weapon + Strength modifier in damage. This not double extra dice added by magic, sneak attack, etc though it does include the weapong enchantment bonus and numerical bonuses like power attack. (Can only be done 1/round).
-Master Cut: Can immediately spend 2 ki points on a successful strike to deal the maximum damage. Bonus damage from criticals, sneak attack, special weapon properties, etc are calculated normally. This does apply to the extra damage added by One Strike, Two Cuts.


Flash Cut: Can spend a ki point as a swift action to add Charisma bonus to all attacks made this round.
-Complete Cut: You are treated as having Improved Sunder as long as you are weilding your Ancestral Weapon. Additionally you add your Charisma onto damage dont by the Sunder,
-Tremendous Horse Cut: You may spend 2ki points upon making a successful hit with a Sunder. If you do you double the damage total done by your Sunder.
-The Deepest Cut: You gain a permanent +2 bonus to your Charima score. May be taken multiple times. Bonuses provided by this ability can never exceed your Samurai level/2 rounded down.
-Cutting the Heavens: You may spend a 1 ki point with each attack to make it into a ranged attack (30ft range). These attacks do not receive the regular bonuses to attack and damage other than your strength score along with the weapon's enchantment bonus. Additionally your threat range increses by 5ft as long as you retain at least 1 ki point. You must spend a ki point to attack at any range beyond the normal (including attacks of opportunity).
-Splitting the Leaf: May utilize any special attacks (Including Sunder) and gain any relevant damage bonuses while using Cutting the Heavens.
-Splitting the Mountain: You may triple the damage done by Sunder attempts with which you use the Tremendous Horse Cut technique. Additionally you may deal critical damage to constructs and undead.
-Dividing the Earth: As long as you have ki points all your attacks ignore damage reduction and hardness.


On the Edge: You may add your Charisma bonus as well as you Dexterity bonus to Initiative.
-Superior Combat Reflexes: You gain a number of attacks of opportunities equal to their Dexterity and Wisdom modifier. May reroll misses one time for each provocation. Additionally you may spend a ki point immediately when an enemies attempts to tumble by you. They must make a tumble opposed to your highest attack bonus or be struck.
-Never Surrounded: May spend a ki point as a swift action make an attack against each adjacent enemy. Works as Whirlwind Attack.
-Extreme Cut: May spend a ki point if you move before all others before combat begins to double your base attack bonus for 1 round.
-Bloody Trail: If you put an enemy below 0 hp this round you may spend a ki point to gain an extra attack. You may shift before you make this extra attack. Each of these extra attacks count as a free action so you may continue to take the rest of your attacks this turn. You may do this multiple times in one round. Each additional use costs 1 more ki point than the last. (As a bit of fluff you may add in that none of your victims fall until you've made your last attack)



Shadow- Emphasizes use of the shadows, intelligence, and mystical abilities to fight the dark or the light.
Bonus Feats:
Acrobatic, Agile, Blind-Fight, Combat Reflexes, Deceitful, Dodge (Mobility, Spring Attack), Expertise (Improved Disarm, Improved Trip, Whirlwind Attack), Improved Initiative, Lightning Reflexes, Persuasive, Quick Draw, Stealthy, Weapon Finesse

Outside of the PHB: Brachiation (Cadv), Dash(Cwar), Fleet of Foot(CWar), Roofwalker(RoD), Flick of the Wrist(CWar), Evasive Reflexes (ToB), Combat Tactition (PHB2), Expeditious Dodge (RotW), Melee Evasion (PHB2), Rapid Blitz (PHB2), Acrobatic Strike (PHB2), Combat Acrobat (PHB2), Spectral Skirmisher (PHB2), Cunning Evasion (PHB2), Fade Into Violence (PHB2), Acrobatic Strike, Combat Acrobat (PHB2), Tumbling Feint (PHB2),


Way of the Shadow: You are treated as having the Weapon Finesse feat for your Ancestral Weapons even if they normally would not allow it. Additionally you mmay add your Intelligence or Wisdom modifier to damage with these weapons.


Grey Area: May spend a ki point to detect any evil/good aligned creatures within 50ft. Lasts 3/rounds
-Twist the Weave: May spend ki points to add a +2 bons to stealth or bluff rolls made this round. (usable up 3 times in a round). Additionally, you may feint as a move action. This counts as having Improved Feint for the purposes of qualifying for other feats.
-Voice of the Shadows: When utilizing the dodge feat can gain their Inteligence or Wisdom in place of the normal +1. Also you may add 1/2 your class level to Intimidate Checks.
-Strength of the Shadows: May spend a ki point gain your Intelligence or Wisdom Bonus to Strength for 1 round..
-Balancing Strike: You may spend 4 ki points as a swift action. If you do your next attack becomes a smite good/evil. You may add your Intelligence or Wisdom to the Attack roll and your character level to damage.


Path of Shadows: Temporarily gain 5hp each time you kill an opponent. Additionally your creature type changes to Outsider(native)
-Kill your Weakness: Gain a +2 dodge bonus to AC (stacks) for every 10 damage suffered.
-Body of Repose: Become Immune to critical hits (sneak attack, sudden strike, etc as undead)
-Fearsome Presense: May, as a swift action, spend a ki point to produce an effect similar to the fear spell. Will save DC= to 1/2 character level + Charisma modifier
-One with the Shadow: You gain undead immunities and resistances.
-Long Shadow: As a full round action you may spend 5ki points to utilize an effect similar to Shadow Walk (the spell). While traveling within the plane of shadow you maintain some idea of where you are. Additionally you may set up special "beacons" (that can't be removed by any means but disappear upon your death) at a place you've shadow walked from. You can exit the plane at the exact locations that you've placed the beacon. You may keep a number of these equal to your Intelligencce modifier. This is a Spell-Like ability and your Caster Level is equal to your Class Level.
-The Shadow Dragon: May spend 10 ki points to reanimate any creature you killed during the previous combat. This works as create greater undead as cast by a 16th level Sorcerer. Can reanimate any number of such creatures but you can only control one.


Undying Vengeance: May spend a ki point to know the exact location of any opponent within 30ft that has wounded them. These opponents lose any concealment and miss chance bonuses toward you this round.
-Strike of Vengeance: May spend a ki point as a swift action to gain a +2 to attack and damage against any opponent that has wounded you this encounter.
-Horrid Strike; May spend a ki point immediately after being struck to make an attack of opportunity against the enemy that hit you. If it hits the opponent must make a fortitude save (DC 10+ the damage that was done) or be dazed for 1 turn. Creatures immune to critical hits are immune to this ability.
-Slaughterer: Gains a +2 (cumulative) insight bonus bonus on attack and damage rolls made the next round for every creature killed by you in the current round.
-Unchained Fury: Can spend a ki point when making an attack of opportunity to strike again at the same target. Can only be done 1/target

Home in the Shadows: You may use this feat to focus your attention on one opponent within 5ft. if this opponent is invisible ethereal, or concealed you may attack him with no penalty or miss chance. If you are unaware of an invisible or ethereal creature within 5ft you automatically become aware of them. This is an extraordinary ability.



Well that's all the abilities I have so far about it. I'm open to new improvements and suggestions. I tried to make each ability a bit better then a feat.ki point usage is a major part of this. So youmay want to make the feat Expanded Ki Pool available. However, allowing enduring ki to be available may be overkill with some of these abilities. Also As designed, these abilities can be used by ninjas (despite it being called ki "power" for them) and Pathfinder Monks. However, since they don't have Ancestral Weapons you might want to include a feat that allows them access to the Ways.

Expanded Ki Pool: +3 ki points to ki pool
Martial Art:(Monk level 4+, ki Pool) Your Unarmed attack and a Single Monk weapon you weild now count as Ancestral Weapons. You are treated as having Weapon Focus with them. You may from here on take Way of the Sword Abilities in place of feats.
Ninja Art: (Ninja level 1+, ki Pool) You may select two weapons to represent your Ancestral Weapon. You count as having Weapon Focus with both. You may from here on take Way of the Sword Abilities in the place of feats.

If you see something you like Please leave a suggestion/alternative. I'm Also still hedging out a code of conduct for them. I am open to suggestions for this as well.
Last edited by MGuy on Tue Jul 28, 2009 7:41 am, edited 18 times in total.
ubernoob
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Post by ubernoob »

These classes are absolutely terrible. Throw the whole thing out, give us fluff you're trying to match, and we'll work from there.
MGuy
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Post by MGuy »

Please be more specific then just saying they are terrible. I know that they aren't balanced (especially the first one which was never updated after I found the original posting of it(=) but not giving details does not help the process. What I want out of either class should be evident by the abilities that they have.
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If you want a game modded right you have to mod it yourself.
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Leress
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Post by Leress »

I will take a look at the "anti-mage"
Ishvalan Crusader (Anti Mage): This is a class made with Fullmetal Alchemist in mind. I actually first saw this class on another site though the site is gone now.

HD: 1d8

Skills: Acrobatics, Climb, Disguise, Escape Artist, Heal, Intimidate, Perception, Profession, Sense Motive, Sleight of Hand, Stealth, Survival, Swim

Skill Points: 4+Int

Weapon Proficiency: Simple

Base Attack Progression: Medium (As Monk)

Good Saves: All (As Monk)
Okay
Bonus AC: As Monk/ +Wisdom Modifier as dodge bonus to AC (In no armor and carrying no more than a light load)
This wasn't too good for the monk and neither is it with this class

Move Speed Bonus: As Monk Progression

What is this here for? It doesn't do jack shit moving real fast isn't a real note worth ability.

Arcane Curse: Imprinted tattoo, deals escalating 1D6 (+1d6 every 2 levels after the first, 10d6 at 19th) worth of damage on a successful touch attack vs casters and creatures that cast spells or that have spell like abilities. -Ignores DR at 5th level +
- Ignores Harness at 10th level+
-Counts as a Spell Like Ability Caster level equal to the level of Crusader
-Must know whether they are touching organic or inorganic surface or the attack does nothing
-Magic Items get a save
-Targeting an item works as normal

Wow this is written very poorly. I assume you mean melee touch attack. Why give it the ability to ignore damage reduction and hardness? What type of ability is this? Why must they know if what they are touching is organic or inorganic? That seems to be an unimportant detail. Since this counts as a SLA another "anti-mage" can fuck your world up. What kind of action does this take?
Gains Acrobatics and Mage Slayer at 1st level

Gains Arcane Resistance at 2nd level: Adds Cha to saves vs spells and spell-like abilities
Ehh...this is okay, I guess

Gains Track at 2nd level
Lame
Witch Hound: Gains at 2nd level. Can make Insight check to sense arcane magic in someone/thing
-Can be opposed by bluff
-Otherwise it is a static check of 10+the CL of the target
-Or DC:15+ spell level of the lowest magic effect on an item

This is pretty convoluted way of giving someone detect magic at will.
Pathfinder: Gained at 3rd level. Never becomes lost due to poor visibility or difficult terrain. May make Survival checks to reduce the effect of difficult terrain on movement. DC: 20 check to reduce movement penalty to 3/4, DC: 30 no reduced movement.
Giving this at third is plain insulting.
Gains Evasion at 4th level

Okay

Gains Mobility at 5th level
That's insulting too
Chain Curse: Gained at 6th level. When using the curse the Crusader may channel some damage to another target (2 secondary targets at 11th, and 3 at 16th)
-Secondary target must be within 30ft
-Must make a another touch attack vs 2nd targets
-Secondary target(s) take only half damage
-Can be chained off of stationary objects (must touching the structure or the ground)
Now the damage isn't so good, does the same restriction apply as with the original?
Pierce Magical Protection: Upon successfully striking with the Arcane Curse the crusader may dispel any magical protection on the target (caster level is equal to the crusader's level)
-May only attempt to dispel one protection spell per hit

This doesn't work the way you think it does. "Magical Protection" is very vague and makes it hard to figure what that actually means.
Earthbolt: Gained at 8th level. Can, as a standard action, send curse through ground at a target,
-Range: 25ft+5ft/2 levels
-Reflex halves damage (DC: 10+1/2Crusader's HD+Cha Mod)
-Is chainable
Why even have this when I can just walk around with a magic stick and bounce it around with that instead with the previous ability?
Improved Evasion: Gained at 8th level

Nondetection: Gained at 9th Level: Is treated as if they are constantly under a nondetection spell

Okay
Spell Resistance: Gained at 10th level. Gains Spell Resistance equal to 10+Crusader level
Basing it off of your class level isn't really a good idea.
Organ Rend: Gained at 14th level. A crusader imposes a -8 Penalty on their attack (or whatever modifier one makes for a called shot to the head/heart/stomach in your game). If the attack hits the victim must make a fortitude save equal to 10+1/2 the crusader's HD+their Charisma modifier or die.
-If the save succeeds the victim still takes damage as normal
-targets that are immune to critical hits are also immune to this ability
So there is no limit to this, because all I can see it doing this with the curse and making someone do mulitple save or dies in a round.

Restrictions: loses bonus movement/dodge bonus/AC bonus from wearing armor or while carrying a medium load
-Can't cross into a casting class, Loses all arcane mark abilities
Adding these restrictions doesn't help in the slightest.
I want to add abilities for levels 10+ but I don't know what I should add to it. I'm thinking Immunity to enchantment effects. Feel Free to give suggestions.
Also I keep the idea that you can switch the bane powers to effect psions and divine magic (I.E psychic hunters or god haters) depending on the spin you want to put on it.
*slams head on desk*

Overall this isn't a very good class. Many of the abilities are poorly worded and not labeled what type. It look a lot like a monk with it's abilities switched out with ones that still aren't that good. Seriously a Mummy Lord would make this character his bitch. It doesn't deal enough damage to kill a number of "casters" and it's do much else except for it's level 14 I kill you button. This class is just not really going to be good at kill much of anything let alone arcane casters.


*I will look at the Noble later
MGuy
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Post by MGuy »


Bonus AC: As Monk/ +Wisdom Modifier as dodge bonus to AC (In no armor and carrying no more than a light load)
This wasn't too good for the monk and neither is it with this class


That may be but it was functional. AC doesn't matter much vs spell casters so it is much better that they have dodge than regular AC bonuses.
Move Speed Bonus: As Monk Progression

What is this here for? It doesn't do jack shit moving real fast isn't a real note worth ability.
Perhaps not in every case but it has its uses. Since this class has a number of abilities from the monk class this small addition seems to fit well enough and is non intrusive enough to do the job.
Arcane Curse: Imprinted tattoo, deals escalating 1D6 (+1d6 every 2 levels after the first, 10d6 at 19th) worth of damage on a successful touch attack vs casters and creatures that cast spells or that have spell like abilities. -Ignores DR at 5th level +
- Ignores Harness at 10th level+
-Counts as a Spell Like Ability Caster level equal to the level of Crusader
-Must know whether they are touching organic or inorganic surface or the attack does nothing
-Magic Items get a save
-Targeting an item works as normal

Wow this is written very poorly. I assume you mean melee touch attack. Why give it the ability to ignore damage reduction and hardness? What type of ability is this? Why must they know if what they are touching is organic or inorganic? That seems to be an unimportant detail. Since this counts as a SLA another "anti-mage" can fuck your world up. What kind of action does this take?
Indeed you are right this is a melee touch attack, and is an attack action. Its a spell-like ability. The inorganic/organic thing is very unimportant, it was written into the fluff of the class and I didn't bother editing it. And yes other anti mages can indeed gain bonuses off of you because of it. This is why its called a curse. The idea is that anyone who takes up this class hates arcane spell casters and this ability is arcane.
Gains Track at 2nd level
Lame
Details please
Witch Hound: Gains at 2nd level. Can make Insight check to sense arcane magic in someone/thing
-Can be opposed by bluff
-Otherwise it is a static check of 10+the CL of the target
-Or DC:15+ spell level of the lowest magic effect on an item

This is pretty convoluted way of giving someone detect magic at will.
Perhaps but that's what fluff is all about. I don't want to make it as simple as the paladins evil Vision. At least this isn't an auto success and it gives those who are trying to hide their casting through magical means a harder time. Also this ability isn't as informative as detect magic.

Pathfinder: Gained at 3rd level. Never becomes lost due to poor visibility or difficult terrain. May make Survival checks to reduce the effect of difficult terrain on movement. DC: 20 check to reduce movement penalty to 3/4, DC: 30 no reduced movement.
Giving this at third is plain insulting.
Explain please.
Gains Mobility at 5th level
That's insulting too
Explain please. I think I want to award it at a lower level myself, getting it at 5th is a bit much, but If I do I would probably want to replace it with something else.
Chain Curse: Gained at 6th level. When using the curse the Crusader may channel some damage to another target (2 secondary targets at 11th, and 3 at 16th)
-Secondary target must be within 30ft
-Must make a another touch attack vs 2nd targets
-Secondary target(s) take only half damage
-Can be chained off of stationary objects (must touching the structure or the ground)

Now the damage isn't so good, does the same restriction apply as with the original?
Reduced the damage because its a ranged effect. Same restrictions do indeed apply.
Pierce Magical Protection: Upon successfully striking with the Arcane Curse the crusader may dispel any magical protection on the target (caster level is equal to the crusader's level)
-May only attempt to dispel one protection spell per hit

This doesn't work the way you think it does. "Magical Protection" is very vague and makes it hard to figure what that actually means.
I understand what you mean. I am hesitant about being more specific though but I suppose the best thing is to just make it a general debuff then. Might it be better if I said it dispels any ongoing spells?
Earthbolt: Gained at 8th level. Can, as a standard action, send curse through ground at a target,
-Range: 25ft+5ft/2 levels
-Reflex halves damage (DC: 10+1/2Crusader's HD+Cha Mod)
-Is chainable

Why even have this when I can just walk around with a magic stick and bounce it around with that instead with the previous ability?
Because this one hits anything. Not just spellcasters. Though the chain effect still carries the restrictions.
Spell Resistance: Gained at 10th level. Gains Spell Resistance equal to 10+Crusader level
Basing it off of your class level isn't really a good idea.

Explanation please.
Organ Rend: Gained at 14th level. A crusader imposes a -8 Penalty on their attack (or whatever modifier one makes for a called shot to the head/heart/stomach in your game). If the attack hits the victim must make a fortitude save equal to 10+1/2 the crusader's HD+their Charisma modifier or die.
-If the save succeeds the victim still takes damage as normal
-targets that are immune to critical hits are also immune to this ability
So there is no limit to this, because all I can see it doing this with the curse and making someone do mulitple save or dies in a round.
Its a caster killing move. Yes there is no limit but because of the number of attacks someone would have to make with the -8 hanging on each one chances are low that someone actually pulls off a hit after the first one.
Restrictions: loses bonus movement/dodge bonus/AC bonus from wearing armor or while carrying a medium load
-Can't cross into a casting class, Loses all arcane mark abilities

Adding these restrictions doesn't help in the slightest.
I don't want it to. Hopefully by the time this class is done there won't be a need to "help" it.
I want to add abilities for levels 10+ but I don't know what I should add to it. I'm thinking Immunity to enchantment effects. Feel Free to give suggestions.
Also I keep the idea that you can switch the bane powers to effect psions and divine magic (I.E psychic hunters or god haters) depending on the spin you want to put on it.


*slams head on desk*

Overall this isn't a very good class. Many of the abilities are poorly worded and not labeled what type. It look a lot like a monk with it's abilities switched out with ones that still aren't that good. Seriously a Mummy Lord would make this character his bitch. It doesn't deal enough damage to kill a number of "casters" and it's do much else except for it's level 14 I kill you button. This class is just not really going to be good at kill much of anything let alone arcane casters.
Though I thank you for the criticism I must remind everyone that A: this class is far from done, B: this portion asks for suggestions as well as critiques, and C: please give details. Saying things like "this is just bad" or "this monster would kill it easy in this way" is not constructive. If you don't like something please offer a suggestion to improve.

I think the class does a descent damage every level. By being able to bypass damage reduction and hardness it deals direct damage. Seeing as though this is aiming towards killing sorcerers/wizards who don't hold a lot of hp it seems fine. At low levels wizards have things like Mage armor and shield which don't factor into touch attacks.

Lets say its a third level mage, max hp maybe 12 give or take gets hit by a touch for 2d6 is pretty dead in 2 rounds give or take. Even at 8th level a mage maybe has 32 hp and is vulnerable to receiving 4d6 per attack (average being 14 damage each). And going against this thing which has improved evasion, all good saves with charisma on top of that vs arcane spells I believe the class achieves the correct level of deadliness against its chosen target. The problem is holding that advantage as the levels drag on.

The other thing would be their effectiveness against non casters. Though High hp magical beings (particularly golems) are worthy of some note this is somewhat mitigated by the fact that the attack bypasses damage reduction of such things. As of yet I don't have too many ideas in mind to remedy this.
Last edited by MGuy on Tue Jul 21, 2009 1:25 pm, edited 2 times in total.
ubernoob
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Post by ubernoob »

MGuy wrote:Please be more specific then just saying they are terrible. I know that they aren't balanced (especially the first one which was never updated after I found the original posting of it(=) but not giving details does not help the process. What I want out of either class should be evident by the abilities that they have.
Leress went into detail, but the classes just don't do anything. I'll go point by point over the noble though.
Noble: From the Dragonlance campaign setting, tweaked from the optional noble abilities from the Races of Ansalon and also influenced by the Noble from Star Wars Saga and Oriental Adventures.

HD: d6

Skills: Appraise, Bluff, Craft, Diplomacy, Disguise, Intimidate, Knowledge: All (each taken individually), Linguistics, Perception, Perform, Profession, Ride, Sense Motive

Skill Points: 6+Int

Weapon Proficiencies: Simple, Short Sword, +1 Additional weapon catered to their family/region

Armor Proficiency: Light

Bab: medium (As Monk)
Shitty proficiencies, shitty HD, shitty bab, shitty saves (except for will), and 6+int skill points? This had better have casting as good as a beguiler to warrant d6 HD, medium bab, a poor fort save, and a complete lack of proficiencies.
Style and Grace: gained at 1st Level. Nobles receive a +5 bonus to any charisma based skills on which they obtain skill focus (replaces +3).
-Increases to +10 for skills with 10 or more ranks (replaces +6)
So, you can get an additional +2 to charisma skills by taking a shitty feat? Ok...

At level seven it becomes ok, but still isn't worth actually taking skill focus.
Sworn Sword (Yojimbo): Gains a cohort (as through leadership. You must provide weapons and lodging for him/her. Until 3rd level the sword remains a warrior (as NPC class)
-Gains followers at appropriate time through this ability. Cannot take leadership feat (is treated as if they already have it)
-Losing this cohort carries all of the relevant penalties, no matter who is at fault for the sword's death.
-Cohort is essentially controlled by the player who retains it. Cohort is also built by the player as their life is sworn to the PC.
-Cohort's stats follow the elite array.
-Unlike other Cohorts once this one is lost it is not easily replaced and the PC must return to their family/benefactor and pay 1000gp/CR of the next Sworn Sword in order to replace. Another cohort may not be gained in any other way, and this cohort cannot be traded in.
-Gains Levels as the PC does (still following the max rules as in leadership)
-The Sworn Sword gains experience a the normal rate if the Noble ever cross classes. This continues even if the noble changes back to the class.
This is stupid. If you're going to make sure the cohort is a gimped class that is designed to be an expendable mook, don't penalize the PC for not being able to keep it alive.

Either drop the warrior restriction or the gp cost. Otherwise, a PC in this class won't ever bother to replace their cohort. They'll just hire one per the DMG tables.
Favor: Gained at 1st Level. Nobles may make a special check to curry favors (equipment, lodging, a hideout, plot advancement, etc) in lands that they or their family/benefactor are known in. DC is set by the DM as appropriate to the situation.
-For more Static DCs: DC:20 for a simple favor, DC: 25 for tedious, DC: 30 for risky, DC: 40 for once in a life-time
This isn't a class feature, but I see the flavor you're going for.
Wealthy: Gained at 1st Level. A noble is naturally wealthy, whether it be through their family or their connections they are able to gain and retain their wealth. Nobles start off with a piece of masterwork equipment. In addition They receive a stipend of 50gp x level x Charisma modifier. They also receive the stipend annually. it comes free at 1st level but every level after receiving the stipend requires that the noble remain in good standing with their people and a successful Diplomacy check equal to 20 + 1/2 their Hd.
-The PC must visit an area and meet with their people in order to receive the stipend.
-Their must be at least 1 month between receiving this stipend even if multiple levels are gained.
Also really stupid. Gaining wealth isn't a fucking class feature. Tying said gain in wealth to the most broken (as in makes games not function) skill in 3.5 is even worse.
Gains Iron Will at 2nd level
Kind of insulting, but this is the first thing that the class has gotten yet that will help it stay alive in any way.
Gossip: Gained at 3rd level. 1/day upon hearing of a person/place/thing a noble may make a gossip check. It works as a knowledge check with the nobleman's class level + charisma modifier replacing their ranks and intelligence (if they have it) on the check.
The once per day limitation is silly. Just give out bardic knowledge.
Court Abilities: Court Abilities are gained 1st a 4th level, +1/3 levels there after.

-The Better Part of Valor: When using a total defense action a noble may add their intelligence modifier to their AC.
Total defense is an action that really shouldn't exist. This is a trap.
-Eyes See the Heart: When someone attempts to lie to you you get an automatic Insight check (modified by your Charisma modifier) to see through it.
I assume you mean sense motive, and you already automatically get a sense motive check to oppose every bluff check made.
-Eyes Betray the Heart: +2 to any numerical modifiers of all abilities. Requires 2 previous Court Abilities.
This is terribly written, and also useless.
-Voice: 1/day a Noble may add their level to a Bluff or Diplomacy check
Bluff for feinting in combat is a losing battle due to adding bab. Add his class level to bluff all the time if it's for feint in combat. If it isn't in combat, then he should just be using that wand of glibness and doesn't care about this tiny bonus.

As I mentioned earlier, diplomacy is a stupid skill per RAW.
-Taunt and Rally: As a full round action you can taunt your enemies and rally your allies. Gives a +1 to all checks, attacks, and damage to all allies withing 50ft. All enemies in 50ft take a -2 to all checks/attacks. Effects 1 enemy/3 levels. Will (DC: 10+1/2HD+Charisma Modifier) negates. Both effects last for 1minute. If the noble is struck during the effect they must make a fort save (10+damage dealt) to keep the effect going.
Inspire courage is better than this in every way. Just give fracken inspire courage.
-Weakness is my Strength: When making an opposed mental check the opponent must use their lowest mental stat (Wis/Int/Cha). Requires 1 previous Court Ability.
What the fuck is an opposed mental check?
-Whispers From the Soul: 1/day may invoke a specific but basic emotion in the target (Will negates, DC: 10+1/2HD+Charisma Modifier). Lasts 1 round/ level (Can be selected more than once to use more then one time a day)
First level wizards can toss around charm person. This ability is crap.
-Your Life is Mine: (Extraordinary ability) A number of times per day equal to the noble's charisma modifier a noble may impose their will upon a weak willed individual (as charm). Can only be used on a target with their HD or less.
See above about how wizards get charm at first level.
-Mastermind: The noble's cohort takes the leadership feat at the next opportunity (must meet requirements). Requires 3 previous Court Abilities.
Leadership chains are stupid. Also, since your cohort's cohort gets to take levels in a real class, he's probably the most powerful class feature you've gotten yet. And he's four levels lower than you.
-Leader of Men: A number of followers equal to the Nobleman's Charisma modifier become lesser cohorts and gain 1/4 the experience that the nobleman gains. Requires 3 previous Court Abilities.
This is stupid. It's completely unneeded maths. Just write a line like "A number of followers equal to the nobleman's charisma modifier are always 5 levels lower than him and level up when he does."

Leadership is still stupid.
-Versatile: Select 2 skills and they become class skills.
Just give a better skill list or write in the class description "plus any two other skills chosen at first level" This isn't a class feature.
Coordinated: At 4th level when a noble uses aid another they get a +1 bonus to the aid. This bonus increases by 1 every 4 levels thereafter.
This is stupid in combat and outside of combat it's just MOAR NANOBOTS.
Skill Focus: Gained first at 5th level and again every 5 levels afterward.
So, at 5th and tenth I get +10 to a cha based skill. Ok, aside from leadership stupidity this is the first real feature of the class.

And +10 to a skill is 10k gold. That's sad when the first mechanic that applies to the actual PC is just "You get an ability worth 10k gold"

So, yeah. So far everything has been insulting.
Immovable Hand of Peace: Gained at 18th level. When not holding a weapon or showing any harmful intent can force opponents to make a will save (DC:10+1/3noble's level+Charisma modifier) or they become unable to perform lethal/attack actions against the noble that round.
-Grappling, capturing, etc can still be done
All saves should be 10+1/2 HD +stat. Otherwise the RNG breaks. And this ability is shit. Sanctuary is what level spell again?
Royalty: At 20th level it is time for the noble to build a kingdom. A Noble gains a +5 on their leadership score.
Except that kingdoms are built by third level PCs.
Level - Saves - Abilities
1 - +0/+0/+2 - Style and Grace, Sworn Sword, Favor, Wealth
2 - +0/+0/+3 - Iron Will
3 - +1/+1/+3 - Gossip
4 - +1/+1/+4 - Court Ability, Coordinated +1
5 - +1/+1/+4 - Skill Focus
6 - +2/+2/+5 -
7 - +2/+2/+5 - Court Ability
8 - +2/+2/+6 - Coordinated +2
9 - +3/+3/+6 -
10 - +3/+3/+7 - Court Ability, Skill Focus
11 - +3/+3/+7
12 - +4/+4/+8 - Coordinated +3
13 - +4/+4/+8 - Court Ability
14 - +4/+4/+9
15 - +5/+5/+9 - Skill Focus
16 - +5/+5/+10 - Court Ability
17 - +5/+5/+10
18 - +6/+6/+11 - Immovable Hand of Peace
19 - +6/+6/+11 - Court Ability
20 - +6/+6/+12 - Skill Focus, Royalty

This class lacks a lot of abilities but the idea is that the Sworn Sword makes up for this by having its own abilities which can be controlled by the Noble.

This is all for now but there are a number of classes from various places (I.E supplements and alternate campaign settings)
So, yeah. Neither of your classes actually DO anything level appropriate at all.
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Leress
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Post by Leress »

*please fix the first quote tag, MGuy*
Details please
I doesn't help this class at all. If you tracking arcane casters they most likely aren't walking or using a method that is easily detected with what track covers. Even if they wouldn't even help that much even if the wizard walked. It doesn't give you any real details at all. You wouldn't know if you if you were tracking human wizard or human rogue or a human commoner.
Perhaps but that's what fluff is all about. I don't want to make it as simple as the paladins evil Vision. At least this isn't an auto success and it gives those who are trying to hide their casting through magical means a harder time. Also this ability isn't as informative as detect magic.


What the hell? That doesn't make any sense. You already gave this class one SLA what's the problem with another? Detect magic can still be guarded against. Showing what the lowest magical effect on an item isn't very helpful.
Explain please.
Difficult Terran isn't all that limiting. If you are going to put an ability like this in just put in the druids ability or something like it. Making people do skill checks just waste time.
Explain please. I think I want to award it at a lower level myself, getting it at 5th is a bit much, but If I do I would probably want to replace it with something else.
Do I really have to explain why giving someone Mobility isn't that great of an ability give someone at this level? Also remember this is only new ability you have gotten in 2 levels.
Because this one hits anything. Not just spellcasters. Though the chain effect still carries the restrictions.
No it doesn't, it says it sends curse which has restrictions on it.
Explanation please.
People multi-class, this screws them.
Its a caster killing move. Yes there is no limit but because of the number of attacks someone would have to make with the -8 hanging on each one chances are low that someone actually pulls off a hit after the first one.


It's a kill anyone move. Since this is an attack action you can use it with the curse hit touch attacks and kill people pretty easily.
I think the class does a descent damage every level. By being able to bypass damage reduction and hardness it deals direct damage. Seeing as though this is aiming towards killing sorcerers/wizards who don't hold a lot of hp it seems fine. At low levels wizards have things like Mage armor and shield which don't factor into touch attacks.
Not every arcane caster is a wizard or sorcerer, they are dragons, aboleths, mindflayers, devils, demons, and others.

This class isn't good at tracking casters, finding casters, or even really fighting them except at lower levels. A wizard with black tentacles pretty much tells this class to shut up.

Also this class can't even fight non arcane caster at all. Seriously orcs kick this classes ass. Against anything that doesn't have arcane casting, this class fights like the npc class aristocrat but with worse AC. It's one thing to specialize in fighting certain creature or people but not at the expense of pretty much being an NPC classed character when you don't fight them.
schpeelah
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Post by schpeelah »

This reminds me of another attempt to make some NPC classes with actual class abilities. The Noble IIRC had enough at-will spell-likes for two Spheres and half w/ scaling DCs, including always-on Sanctuary, handed out bonuses to everyone around, had a real army (Leadership score equal to character level + class level + Cha mod, the number of followers of each level is squared) and Divine Rank Zero as capstone.

Of course, it was on a different forum in 3.0 times, so people still bitched about 20th level God-Kings, 18th level Peasants having abilities PCs of any level actually might notice and pitchfork mobs actually being able to kill CR 5 monsters.

I've been trying to make the classes into something that would get accepted here, but without much success.
MGuy
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Post by MGuy »

Ubernoob I must say your comments are far less than helpful. Before I even address your points you seem to have missed most of the point in any of the abilities. Whats more your repeated statements and the repeated statement that "Leadership is useless" does exactly what I asked people not to do.

Though I shouldn't need to I must point out that unlike most cohorts the Sworn Sword is completely customizable and completely player controlled. In fact I argue that the Sworn Sword is THE best ability this class has. I will address this after I address your points.

[quote]

[quote]

Please be more specific then just saying they are terrible. I know that they aren't balanced (especially the first one which was never updated after I found the original posting of it(=) but not giving details does not help the process. What I want out of either class should be evident by the abilities that they have.

[/quote]

Leress went into detail, but the classes just don't do anything. I'll go point by point over the noble though.

[/quote]

Leress didn't detail all of the points that he/she presented. And by detail, I mean give an explanation deeper than: This sucks. Moreover Neither Leress or you have suggested any alternatives. The flavoring in both classes and their abilities should be obvious enough for their to be room to give an edit/alternatives. The point of this thread is to build these classes not just to poke at the framework.

[quote]

[quote]
Noble: From the Dragonlance campaign setting, tweaked from the optional noble abilities from the Races of Ansalon and also influenced by the Noble from Star Wars Saga and Oriental Adventures.

HD: d6

Skills: Appraise, Bluff, Craft, Diplomacy, Disguise, Intimidate, Knowledge: All (each taken individually), Linguistics, Perception, Perform, Profession, Ride, Sense Motive

Skill Points: 6+Int

Weapon Proficiencies: Simple, Short Sword, +1 Additional weapon catered to their family/region

Armor Proficiency: Light

Bab: medium (As Monk)

[/quote]

Shitty proficiencies, shitty HD, shitty bab, shitty saves (except for will), and 6+int skill points? This had better have casting as good as a beguiler to warrant d6 HD, medium bab, a poor fort save, and a complete lack of proficiencies.

[/quote]

How many proficiencies should the noble have in your opinion then? I am completely open to suggestions about it. The low hp, medium base attack progression, and low saves support the actual idea behind the noble being a softy. However if theirs just cause behind increasing them beyond than the whole "he can't fight good" argument I don't think I will change them.

[quote]
Style and Grace: gained at 1st Level. Nobles receive a +5 bonus to any charisma based skills on which they obtain skill focus (replaces +3).
-Increases to +10 for skills with 10 or more ranks (replaces +6) [/quote]
So, you can get an additional +2 to charisma skills by taking a shitty feat? Ok...

At level seven it becomes ok, but still isn't worth actually taking skill focus.

[/quote]

I will assume that you skimmed over the class and didn't notice that they get skill focus automatically...

[quote]

[quote]

Sworn Sword (Yojimbo): Gains a cohort (as through leadership. You must provide weapons and lodging for him/her. Until 3rd level the sword remains a warrior (as NPC class)
-Gains followers at appropriate time through this ability. Cannot take leadership feat (is treated as if they already have it)
-Losing this cohort carries all of the relevant penalties, no matter who is at fault for the sword's death.
-Cohort is essentially controlled by the player who retains it. Cohort is also built by the player as their life is sworn to the PC.
-Cohort's stats follow the elite array.
-Unlike other Cohorts once this one is lost it is not easily replaced and the PC must return to their family/benefactor and pay 1000gp/CR of the next Sworn Sword in order to replace. Another cohort may not be gained in any other way, and this cohort cannot be traded in.
-Gains Levels as the PC does (still following the max rules as in leadership)
-The Sworn Sword gains experience a the normal rate if the Noble ever cross classes. This continues even if the noble changes back to the class.

[/quote]

This is stupid. If you're going to make sure the cohort is a gimped class that is designed to be an expendable mook, don't penalize the PC for not being able to keep it alive.

Either drop the warrior restriction or the gp cost. Otherwise, a PC in this class won't ever bother to replace their cohort. They'll just hire one per the DMG tables.

[/quote]

The cohort is only restricted to npc classes UNTIL the noble reaches 3rd, at which point you switch out his npc class for a PC one. Doesn't seem like too much to ask that the cohort be "gimped" for the first few levels so you're not walking around with 2 equal power pcs.

Secondly pcs are penalized for not keeping THEMSELVES alive. The penalty for losing a the sword seems rather minimal especially considering that you have full control over it and its class progression (or as much control as you'd have over an animal companion) Moreover, The sworn sword is essentially free until they die. The pc just has to pay for the equipment and lodging (easily done on an adventurer's salary especially one supported by wealth).

[quote]
Favor: Gained at 1st Level. Nobles may make a special check to curry favors (equipment, lodging, a hideout, plot advancement, etc) in lands that they or their family/benefactor are known in. DC is set by the DM as appropriate to the situation.
-For more Static DCs: DC:20 for a simple favor, DC: 25 for tedious, DC: 30 for risky, DC: 40 for once in a life-time

[/quote]

This isn't a class feature, but I see the flavor you're going for.

[quote]

Wealthy: Gained at 1st Level. A noble is naturally wealthy, whether it be through their family or their connections they are able to gain and retain their wealth. Nobles start off with a piece of masterwork equipment. In addition They receive a stipend of 50gp x level x Charisma modifier. They also receive the stipend annually. it comes free at 1st level but every level after receiving the stipend requires that the noble remain in good standing with their people and a successful Diplomacy check equal to 20 + 1/2 their Hd.
-The PC must visit an area and meet with their people in order to receive the stipend.
-Their must be at least 1 month between receiving this stipend even if multiple levels are gained.

Also really stupid. Gaining wealth isn't a fucking class feature. Tying said gain in wealth to the most broken (as in makes games not function) skill in 3.5 is even worse.

[/quote]

Calling something stupid does not equal an explain the problem. Please elaborate. Your issues with diplomacy are your own problem. I have never had a problem handling diplomacy. If you don't like how diplomacy works, do what I did and make your own system for it or find someone who has.

[quote]

[quote]

Gains Iron Will at 2nd level

[/quote]

Kind of insulting, but this is the first thing that the class has gotten yet that will help it stay alive in any way.

[/quote]

I don't know whether this is an insult or a praise. I don't see how getting a bodyguard at first level doesn't count as getting something that keeps you alive.

[quote]

[quote]

Gossip: Gained at 3rd level. 1/day upon hearing of a person/place/thing a noble may make a gossip check. It works as a knowledge check with the nobleman's class level + charisma modifier replacing their ranks and intelligence (if they have it) on the check.

[/quote]

The once per day limitation is silly. Just give out bardic knowledge.

[/quote]

I agree with you. There is no reason to limit this ability. I'll be changing this soon.

[quote]

[quote]

Court Abilities: Court Abilities are gained 1st a 4th level, +1/3 levels there after.

-The Better Part of Valor: When using a total defense action a noble may add their intelligence modifier to their AC.

[/quote]

Total defense is an action that really shouldn't exist. This is a trap.

[/quote]

I disagree. Total defense has its merits (especially for those with crappy hp and proficiencies who find themselves on the battlefield)

[quote]

[quote]

-Eyes See the Heart: When someone attempts to lie to you you get an automatic Insight check (modified by your Charisma modifier) to see through it.

[/quote]

I assume you mean sense motive, and you already automatically get a sense motive check to oppose every bluff check made.

[/quote]

You assume wrong. Sense Motive is Insight in pathfinder. And indeed you do get said check but it isn't regularly modified by Charisma.

[quote]

[quote]

-Eyes Betray the Heart: +2 to any numerical modifiers of all abilities. Requires 2 previous Court Abilities.

[/quote]

This is terribly written, and also useless.

[/quote]

Indeed I think I could word it better but it is far from useless.
Uses: Improves each and every one of the abilities listed here.
-Better Part of Valor: +2 additional bonus to AC on top of Int
-Eyes See the Heart: +2 bonus on top of the Charisma modifier and other ranks and bonuses on the Insight check
-Voice: 3/day (instead of 1), +2 on top of 1/2 level bonus to Bluff/Diplomacy
-Taunt/Rally: +3 (instead of +1) bonuses and -4 (instead of -2) penalties, effects bonus two enemies, +2 to the Will save DC
-Whispers of the Soul: 3/day (instead of 1), +2 to the Will save DC, lasts an additional 2 rounds
-Your life is Mine: +2 to the Will save DC
-Mastermind: +2 to your Cohort's Leadership score
-Leader of Men: works on an additional 2 followers
Does nothing for Weakness is my Strength or Versatile

[quote]

[quote]

-Voice: 1/day a Noble may add their level to a Bluff or Diplomacy check

[/quote]

Bluff for feinting in combat is a losing battle due to adding bab. Add his class level to bluff all the time if it's for feint in combat. If it isn't in combat, then he should just be using that wand of glibness and doesn't care about this tiny bonus.
As I mentioned earlier, diplomacy is a stupid skill per RAW.

[/quote]

Ok I can safely assume that intrigue isn't high on your list of role playing genres. But for those who don't want to wave a wand at the solution and aren't particular feinting in combat it seems to be an upstanding ability. It may not be the best on the list but i think for flavor, it serves its purpose. Whats more I will safely assume that anyone wanting to get ahead in bluff constantly will use one of the bonus skill focuses to get there.

[quote]

[quote]

-Taunt and Rally: As a full round action you can taunt your enemies and rally your allies. Gives a +1 to all checks, attacks, and damage to all allies withing 50ft. All enemies in 50ft take a -2 to all checks/attacks. Effects 1 enemy/3 levels. Will (DC: 10+1/2HD+Charisma Modifier) negates. Both effects last for 1minute. If the noble is struck during the effect they must make a fort save (10+damage dealt) to keep the effect going.

[/quote]

Inspire courage is better than this in every way. Just give fracken inspire courage.

[/quote]

I really don't want to carbon copy inspire courage. beyond that this one is unlimited, and imposes penalties on the enemies. However I do think I should add some kind of limit: like opponents who make the save cannot be effected by this again for 24 hours or something to that effect. Anyway this can easily be improved by taking Eyes Betray the Heart.

[quote]

[quote]

-Weakness is my Strength: When making an opposed mental check the opponent must use their lowest mental stat (Wis/Int/Cha). Requires 1 previous Court Ability.

[/quote]

What the fuck is an opposed mental check?

[/quote]

Mental check: any check made using the Intelligence, Wisdom, or Charisma modifiers. IE opposed diplomacy, opposed intelligence, Bluff vs Insight, etc

[quote]

[quote]

Whispers From the Soul: 1/day may invoke a specific but basic emotion in the target (Will negates, DC: 10+1/2HD+Charisma Modifier). Lasts 1 round/ level (Can be selected more than once to use more then one time a day)

[/quote]

First level wizards can toss around charm person. This ability is crap.

[/quote]

Indeed wizards can. I can name quite a number of base classes that can't. What is the point of this comment?

[quote]

[quote]

-Your Life is Mine: (Extraordinary ability) A number of times per day equal to the noble's charisma modifier a noble may impose their will upon a weak willed individual (as charm). Can only be used on a target with their HD or less.

[/quote]

See above about how wizards get charm at first level.

[/quote]

This was written wrong I suppose. By impose will I meant to give off more of a dominate person kind of meaning. However I think I got the daily limits backwards. I meant for Whispers of the Soul to be available a number of times equal to the Noble's Charisma modifier and for this one to be 1/day. I'll edit that soon.

[quote]

[quote]

-Mastermind: The noble's cohort takes the leadership feat at the next opportunity (must meet requirements). Requires 3 previous Court Abilities.

[/quote]

Leadership chains are stupid. Also, since your cohort's cohort gets to take levels in a real class, he's probably the most powerful class feature you've gotten yet. And he's four levels lower than you.

[/quote]

This goes back to the leadership prejudice. I personally don't see a problem with leadership and having another cohort (albeit 4 levels below you) isn't really very different from what the Beastmaster class gives you.

[quote]

[quote]

-Leader of Men: A number of followers equal to the Nobleman's Charisma modifier become lesser cohorts and gain 1/4 the experience that the nobleman gains. Requires 3 previous Court Abilities.

[/quote]

This is stupid. It's completely unneeded maths. Just write a line like "A number of followers equal to the nobleman's charisma modifier are always 5 levels lower than him and level up when he does."

Leadership is still stupid.

[/quote]

I agree with you that there is quite a bit of extra math associated with this. Your proposal seems to be pretty straight forward. I'll have to think over it for a bit before I make the change though.

The "leadership is stupid" comment seemed unnecessary though.

[quote]

[quote]

-Versatile: Select 2 skills and they become class skills.

[/quote]

Just give a better skill list or write in the class description "plus any two other skills chosen at first level" This isn't a class feature.

[/quote]

Its a Court Ability. It is optional. This means that if a Noble might want to be an Olympiad swimmer he can opt to make it a class skill. There's no reason to up the Noble's Skill list with skills that they don't fit the flavor. But if a player does for whatever reason the option is here. There's no reason to take it off the list.

[quote]

[quote]

Coordinated: At 4th level when a noble uses aid another they get a +1 bonus to the aid. This bonus increases by 1 every 4 levels thereafter.

[/quote]

This is stupid in combat and outside of combat it's just MOAR NANOBOTS.

[/quote]

I really don't see why people over look the aid another option. flanking + aid another gives a +4 to hit. The sworn sword is below the noble's level and may not have the bit of attack bonus to ht that monster. Lending him him or another party member a hand doesn't seem like an adverse thing to do for him.

[quote]

[quote]

Skill Focus: Gained first at 5th level and again every 5 levels afterward.

[/quote]

So, at 5th and tenth I get +10 to a cha based skill. Ok, aside from leadership stupidity this is the first real feature of the class.

And +10 to a skill is 10k gold. That's sad when the first mechanic that applies to the actual PC is just "You get an ability worth 10k gold"

[/quote]

It works a bit differently considering that it goes all the way to 20th which would mean 40,00gp in skill bonuses but yes..

[quote]

So, yeah. So far everything has been insulting.

[/quote]

I disagree but you're welcome to your opinion. I would request that you give more alternatives for the sake of actually improving the idea though.

[quote]

[quote]

Immovable Hand of Peace: Gained at 18th level. When not holding a weapon or showing any harmful intent can force opponents to make a will save (DC:10+1/3noble's level+Charisma modifier) or they become unable to perform lethal/attack actions against the noble that round.
-Grappling, capturing, etc can still be done

[/quote]

All saves should be 10+1/[b]2[/b] HD +stat. Otherwise the RNG breaks. And this ability is shit. Sanctuary is what level spell again?

[/quote]

Typo there I'll edit it soon. I meant 1/2. Sanctuary is a 1st level spell and unfortunately the will save DC does not scale with. The save for this spell should be considerably higher, and its constant. However if you don't like it please feel free to give an alternative instead of just labeling it shit and moving on.

[quote]

[quote]

Royalty: At 20th level it is time for the noble to build a kingdom. A Noble gains a +5 on their leadership score.

[/quote]

Except that kingdoms are built by third level PCs.

[/quote]

I must say that this comment lends nothing to the class. I can conceivably see a 3rd level party pulling off making of a kingdom but that doesn't help this class at all. This isn;t so much an ability as a save space. I want to put something good here but i don't know what yet. The thing of it is I am looking for ideas, which is what this thread is about.

[quote]

This is all for now but there are a number of classes from various places (I.E supplements and alternate campaign settings)

So, yeah. Neither of your classes actually DO anything level appropriate at all.

[/quote]

If you feel that way (that the classes are lacking) I can understand that. I feel that way myself. That is the reason I posted the frame work here so I could get ideas. While criticism IS appreciated and welcomed the thread is more for IMPROVING the classes. Once again, I already know that the classes aren't good. I love to hear your opinions on the individual abilities and how you feel about them but the focus should be more on improving them or adding your own ideas.
Last edited by MGuy on Wed Jul 22, 2009 12:26 am, edited 11 times in total.
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Judging__Eagle
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Post by Judging__Eagle »

MGuy, fix your quote tags. You left one open, and it's obviously affecting the whole thread.

It's the "[ quote " that you wrote in the post right before Ubernoob's, you didn't close it properly.
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Username17
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Post by Username17 »

Mguy, just shouting "EXPLAIN!" over and over agan every time you write a worthless ability and people tell you that it sucks and should be replaced by something else is not going to win you a lot of points or get you much of an explanation. Your classes are crap. Here is the universal explanation for why all your abilities are wildly wildly insufficient for what they need to be doing:

When you are a character of level N, you are supposed to be contributing equally to a party of level N. And that means among other things that you're supposed to pull your weight in challenges such that you'd deliver a victory roughly half the time if you were forced to solo a challenge of CR N. And it also means that when the team is fucking around that you should be able to contribute as much there as another level N character.

So your competition in this regard is the monsters out of the monster manual at each level. And a Beguiler of your level. Not only do all of your creations get their faces pounded in by pretty much every level appropriate threat ever, they all sit on the sideline and mope while the Beguiler shows how frickin awesome he is.

The Noble is a diplomancer, and while I agree that could potentially be broken, the fact is that the Beguiler is still a much better diplomancer because he has Charm Monster and Tongues that he can cast spontaneously. Even at first level he has comprehend languages and charm person (which only works on humanoids, and you have to touch them to talk - but still works). Seriously, those spells blow everything your Noble ever does out of the water. Yes, your class gets bonuses to the Diplomacy skill that are RNG breaking, but so does the Beguiler, and the Beguiler can shift enemies from "Hostile" to "Friendly" - which according to PHB page 72 is an awful lot like getting +30 to your Diplomacy check and also making them stand around and talk to you instead of trying to bury a sword in your face.

-Username17
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Post by Crissa »

Frank, Leress and ubernoob's posts aren't much better, either. They just say 'these abilities aren't useful' without noting that these abilities are basically freebies on the tree.

Nor do they attempt to re-write the text to make more sense.

So Mguy's questions seem rather tolerable here.

If you're going to complain about an ability, replace it with something useful. It's not like this is a tome-level class.

-Crissa
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Post by Leress »

Fair enough even though I did make suggestions, not many because I had to get answers to what an ability was in the first place.

Most of the abilities are not good and would pretty much be writing a class from the ground up.
Last edited by Leress on Tue Jul 21, 2009 9:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by ubernoob »

Crissa wrote:Frank, Leress and ubernoob's posts aren't much better, either. They just say 'these abilities aren't useful' without noting that these abilities are basically freebies on the tree.

Nor do they attempt to re-write the text to make more sense.

So Mguy's questions seem rather tolerable here.

If you're going to complain about an ability, replace it with something useful. It's not like this is a tome-level class.

-Crissa
I asked in my first post what the OP wanted his classes to do, and I'd basically be writing the classes from the ground up. So far, we've got a shitty "I deal damage to mages" class and a shitty "I have leadership chains" class. The first, I can probably design because I know what is important in killing casters. The second, well, the whole concept needs a redesign.

But let's toss out a "Mage Slayer" class.

Mage Slayer.

HD: 1d8
BAB: Full
Saves: All good
Skill points: 4+Int
Class skills: Sense motive, Spellcraft, UMD, Tumble, Jump, Use Rope, Knowledge(Arcana), some other ones

Class Features

I See Magic(Su): Your eyes glow. This means that you are constantly treated as having detect magic active and considered to be concentrating on it at no action cost.

A Wizard Killed my Father(Ex): You're very good at killing people capable of casting spells and spell like abilities. Against a creature capable of casting spells or spell like abilities, you gain +2 to hit on all attacks and deal an extra d6 of damage at first level. At every odd level you deal an additional d6 of damage against these creatures.

Divine Grace(Ex): You get divine grace at second level.

But I saved! (Ex): At fourth level you gain evasion and mettle.

No, fuck your attack rolls too(Ex): At sixth level you now treat your full AC as your touch AC against spells and spell like abiliities.

Fuck your buffs too(Ex): At 8th level, you may cast greater dispel magic at will with a caster level equal to your HD.

Don't do that (Ex): Starting at tenth level, if you hit a creature capable of casting spells or spell like abilities in melee this round, they must make a Fort save (DC 10+1/2 HD+Con mod) or be dazed for one round.

Still needs five more abilities for the last ten even levels, but you get the idea. Notably needs flight, short range teleportation, and diminsional anchor type effects.
Last edited by ubernoob on Tue Jul 21, 2009 10:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by MGuy »

Mguy, just shouting "EXPLAIN!" over and over agan every time you write a worthless ability and people tell you that it sucks and should be replaced by something else is not going to win you a lot of points or get you much of an explanation. Your classes are crap. Here is the universal explanation for why all your abilities are wildly wildly insufficient for what they need to be doing:

When you are a character of level N, you are supposed to be contributing equally to a party of level N. And that means among other things that you're supposed to pull your weight in challenges such that you'd deliver a victory roughly half the time if you were forced to solo a challenge of CR N. And it also means that when the team is fucking around that you should be able to contribute as much there as another level N character.

So your competition in this regard is the monsters out of the monster manual at each level. And a Beguiler of your level. Not only do all of your creations get their faces pounded in by pretty much every level appropriate threat ever, they all sit on the sideline and mope while the Beguiler shows how frickin awesome he is.

The Noble is a diplomancer, and while I agree that could potentially be broken, the fact is that the Beguiler is still a much better diplomancer because he has Charm Monster and Tongues that he can cast spontaneously. Even at first level he has comprehend languages and charm person (which only works on humanoids, and you have to touch them to talk - but still works). Seriously, those spells blow everything your Noble ever does out of the water. Yes, your class gets bonuses to the Diplomacy skill that are RNG breaking, but so does the Beguiler, and the Beguiler can shift enemies from "Hostile" to "Friendly" - which according to PHB page 72 is an awful lot like getting +30 to your Diplomacy check and also making them stand around and talk to you instead of trying to bury a sword in your face.

-Username17
I am not shouting explain every time someone says "this is crap". I am saying that just mentioning "it is crap" without an explanation is doing less than helping.

I am not going to try and make a noble compete with a beguiler. Reasonably a beguiler can beat out any non-casting class at any level. Hell a beguiler is better than a bard when taking on challenges. However I do believe that a Noble has a lot to offer outside of battle. If he is in battle than his role will be relegated to support while his Sworn Sword actually deals with combat challenges.

Again, Though I have mentioned it before. I know the classes aren't good. It is why I brought them here. It is why I asked for others to look at it and give suggestions. Posts that say "It Sucks" without giving supporting details as to why, claiming that a caster can do better (which they ALWAYS can), and not offering any suggestions does not contribute to the process.

I don't want to make a carbon copy or malformed version of a bard or Beguiler. I am fairly sure there is a way to pull off a noble without flinging magic at its every ability.

Finally, I house rule Diplomacy so that it makes sense.
Frank, Leress and ubernoob's posts aren't much better, either. They just say 'these abilities aren't useful' without noting that these abilities are basically freebies on the tree.

Nor do they attempt to re-write the text to make more sense.

So Mguy's questions seem rather tolerable here.

If you're going to complain about an ability, replace it with something useful. It's not like this is a tome-level class.

-Crissa
Thank you for understanding.
I asked in my first post what the OP wanted his classes to do, and I'd basically be writing the classes from the ground up. So far, we've got a shitty "I deal damage to mages" class and a shitty "I have leadership chains" class. The first, I can probably design because I know what is important in killing casters. The second, well, the whole concept needs a redesign.

But let's toss out a "Mage Slayer" class.

Mage Slayer.

HD: 1d8
BAB: Full
Saves: All good
Skill points: 4+Int
Class skills: Sense motive, Spellcraft, UMD, Tumble, Jump, Use Rope, Knowledge(Arcana), some other ones

Class Features

I See Magic(Su): Your eyes glow. This means that you are constantly treated as having detect magic active and considered to be concentrating on it at no action cost.

A Wizard Killed my Father(Ex): You're very good at killing people capable of casting spells and spell like abilities. Against a creature capable of casting spells or spell like abilities, you gain +2 to hit on all attacks and deal an extra d6 of damage at first level. At every odd level you deal an additional d6 of damage against these creatures.

Divine Grace(Ex): You get divine grace at second level.

But I saved! (Ex): At fourth level you gain evasion and mettle.

No, fuck your attack rolls too(Ex): At sixth level you now treat your full AC as your touch AC against spells and spell like abiliities.

Fuck your buffs too(Ex): At 8th level, you may cast greater dispel magic at will with a caster level equal to your HD.

Don't do that (Ex): Starting at tenth level, if you hit a creature capable of casting spells or spell like abilities in melee this round, they must make a Fort save (DC 10+1/2 HD+Con mod) or be dazed for one round.

Still needs five more abilities for the last ten even levels, but you get the idea. Notably needs flight, short range teleportation, and diminsional anchor type effects.
Thank you this is exactly what I was looking for. However for flavor purposes I don't think I'm gonna allow the anti-mage to get Use Magic Device. I am also thinking about giving it short range teleportation at lower levels and having it progress. I think there is something like that in on a dragonmark in Eberron.
Last edited by MGuy on Tue Jul 21, 2009 11:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Username17 »

MGuy wrote:I am not going to try and make a noble compete with a beguiler.
Then you are not making a level appropriate character and you are wasting our fucking time.

Good day.

-Username17
Last edited by Username17 on Tue Jul 21, 2009 11:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by MGuy »


Then you are not making a level appropriate character and you are wasting our fucking time.

Good day.

-Username17
I would like to avoid having any more useless comments like this one please. If you're not going to give constructive criticism and suggestions then this is not the thread for you.
Last edited by MGuy on Tue Jul 21, 2009 11:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Leress »

Please fix your quote tag, MGuy.
Koumei wrote:I'm just glad that Jill Stein stayed true to her homeopathic principles by trying to win with .2% of the vote. She just hasn't diluted it enough!
Koumei wrote:I am disappointed in Santorum: he should carry his dead election campaign to term!
Just a heads up... Your post is pregnant... When you miss that many periods it's just a given.
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Post by TavishArtair »

It's not a useless comment, dude, he's telling you that if you're not making a character that can compete side-by-side with another character in the game that isn't even some kind of aberration of multiclassing, it's just a straight 20 level class, that you are not designing for the D&D game and thus should either design for another game or pack your bags and go home.

Also please fix the damn quote tag. If you do not properly begin and all quotes in BBcode on this board, a single misplaced tag, it screws up the thread display like it is doing here.
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Post by MGuy »

TavishArtair wrote:It's not a useless comment, dude, he's telling you that if you're not making a character that can compete side-by-side with another character in the game that isn't even some kind of aberration of multiclassing, it's just a straight 20 level class, that you are not designing for the D&D game and thus should either design for another game or pack your bags and go home.

Also please fix the damn quote tag. If you do not properly begin and all quotes in BBcode on this board, a single misplaced tag, it screws up the thread display like it is doing here.
It is useless in that he just repeated what he already said. What's more he did so again without offering anything. Even your explanation of his comment lends a better explanation than what he posted.

What's more the noble is not a battle savvy class. Why would I be trying to make it compete with the beguiler when it is closer to a bard? In either case I am trying to avoid slinging magic needlessly at the class to improve it.

Also I'll just disable the BBC for that post.
Last edited by MGuy on Wed Jul 22, 2009 1:00 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by MGuy »

Crusader edited.
Noble edited.

Edited Arcane Curse- the touch attack ignores any AC granted by spells/spell-like abilities
Added details on Mage Slayer
Edited Witch Hound
Added Mage Hunter
Increased BaB progression to good
Added Mettle
Added Break Spell (replaced pierce magical protection)
Added Disruption
Edited Gossip
Expanded Eyes Betray the Heart
Edited Gossip
Edited Your Life is Mine
Edited and made major changes to Whispers of the Soul
Edited Immovable Hand of Peace
Edited Pathfinder
Moved Mobility to an earlier level. Is gotten without prerequisits
Last edited by MGuy on Wed Jul 22, 2009 2:10 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Post by MGuy »

Leress wrote: I doesn't help this class at all. If you tracking arcane casters they most likely aren't walking or using a method that is easily detected with what track covers. Even if they wouldn't even help that much even if the wizard walked. It doesn't give you any real details at all. You wouldn't know if you if you were tracking human wizard or human rogue or a human commoner.
It helps in that (as you say later in the post) its not just casters that they are looking for. Though you do have a point, There should be a way to tell what they're tracking.
What the hell? That doesn't make any sense. You already gave this class one SLA what's the problem with another? Detect magic can still be guarded against. Showing what the lowest magical effect on an item isn't very helpful.
Point taken, I suppose there's no reason to tack on an ability like that. I suppose I can just label it supernatural.
Difficult Terran isn't all that limiting. If you are going to put an ability like this in just put in the druids ability or something like it. Making people do skill checks just waste time.
You are right, I think I'll adjust that.
Do I really have to explain why giving someone Mobility isn't that great of an ability give someone at this level? Also remember this is only new ability you have gotten in 2 levels.

Again good point. I think I'll set it at second level unless you have amore suitable level to put it at?
No it doesn't, it says it sends curse which has restrictions on it.
The idea is that the bolt itself does damage regardless of the target. At least I think... I'll probably just re edit the ability or take it out altogether later.
People multi-class, this screws them.
I don't have an answer for this right now. I'd say that I merely don't want this to be a multiclassing class but really it doesn't seem like that big of a deal to me that they can multiclass into an arcane caster. Considering the idea of the class is "I hate arcane magic users" it seems reasonable to ask people not to mix actual arcane casting with it.
It's a kill anyone move. Since this is an attack action you can use it with the curse hit touch attacks and kill people pretty easily.
I don't think so. Most magical beasties and fighter types would easily have the fortitude to beat the DC. And Again with a -8 penalty slapped on every time you try to go for it not many targets that can't make the fort save are gonna get hit more than once a turn.
Not every arcane caster is a wizard or sorcerer, they are dragons, aboleths, mindflayers, devils, demons, and others.

This class isn't good at tracking casters, finding casters, or even really fighting them except at lower levels. A wizard with black tentacles pretty much tells this class to shut up.

Also this class can't even fight non arcane caster at all. Seriously orcs kick this classes ass. Against anything that doesn't have arcane casting, this class fights like the npc class aristocrat but with worse AC. It's one thing to specialize in fighting certain creature or people but not at the expense of pretty much being an NPC classed character when you don't fight them.
You are right about that, and I made some mention of those problems right after that comment you quoted. I am still mulling over remedies to this that would keep the tone of the class.

-Note: would have responded earlier to this post but with all the other responses I didn't see it.

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Post by Leress »

I don't have an answer for this right now. I'd say that I merely don't want this to be a multiclassing class but really it doesn't seem like that big of a deal to me that they can multiclass into an arcane caster.
If this class multi-classes with a non caster they will be screwed.
It helps in that (as you say later in the post) its not just casters that they are looking for.
Track doesn't really help all that much in finding the ones I mentioned either.
Koumei wrote:I'm just glad that Jill Stein stayed true to her homeopathic principles by trying to win with .2% of the vote. She just hasn't diluted it enough!
Koumei wrote:I am disappointed in Santorum: he should carry his dead election campaign to term!
Just a heads up... Your post is pregnant... When you miss that many periods it's just a given.
I want him to tongue-punch my box.
]
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Post by Maxus »

Okay, Mguy, here's a deal: In the next day or two, I'll read your classes and post up my assessment of their strengths and shortcomings, and the rest of the crew here can pick apart what I say, and you should be able to learn the reasonings.

Before that, would you do me a favor and straighten out the formatting and add some tables and some titles and the like so I can tell what ability belongs to what class? I get the impression that the top section is a class separate from that table below it, but it's really confusing and could be clarified.

Also, shame on the Den for telling this guy he's wasting our time. If nothing else, educating him could be some useful mental exercise.
He jumps like a damned dragoon, and charges into battle fighting rather insane monsters with little more than his bare hands and rather nasty spell effects conjured up solely through knowledge and the local plantlife. He unerringly knows where his goal lies, he breathes underwater and is untroubled by space travel, seems to have no limits to his actual endurance and favors killing his enemies by driving both boots square into their skull. His agility is unmatched, and his strength legendary, able to fling about a turtle shell big enough to contain a man with enough force to barrel down a near endless path of unfortunates.

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Post by MGuy »

Leress wrote: If this class multi-classes with a non caster they will be screwed.
Why would someone want to multiclass into a casting class from this?
It helps in that (as you say later in the post) its not just casters that they are looking for. Track doesn't really help all that much in finding the ones I mentioned either.
Understandable. This ability isn't aimed at finding teleporting wizards overland. Still it doesn't hurt to have track. Do you have an alternate suggestion on what this class would have to find wizards at long range?
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