Kicking Players Out

Psychic Robot · Post by **Psychic Robot** » Mon Jul 20, 2009 3:23 am

The drama at BG has this on my mind, so I'd like to know your opinions.

For me, kicking someone out can be done whenever, but it generally shouldn't. Kicking someone out is a last-resort type of action, not your go-to solution.

I'm interested in your opinions, though.

1. Have you ever kicked someone out/been kicked out? If so, why?
2. When is it okay to kick someone out?
3. Are there instances in which you'd kick someone out without warning? (Disregarding situations like "he brought a knife to the game and threatened to eat my face.")

Maxus · Post by **Maxus** » Mon Jul 20, 2009 3:49 am

1) I've quit a couple of games before, after violent arguments when the DM was an asshat.

2) I'd say it is okay to kick someone out when they've constantly disrupted the sessions and make the game just unpleasant for everyone involved, to amuse themselves ("Everyone was talking to that guy too much. So I killed him.")

3) I can't think of much, other an astounding display of asshattery and selfishness and lack of decency. I suppose going all elitist and making a newbie cry with a Hannibal Lecture might do it. Or something along those lines. I accept that people aren't always impressive or charismatic or might not catch onto things at first. But someone who uses that a basis for thinking he's better than them? I want to punch something just thinking about it.

TOZ · Post by **TOZ** » Mon Jul 20, 2009 4:05 am

1. I'll refer you to the thread in In The Trenches. I think it counts. Other than that incident, I don't think any of my groups have ever had to kick a player, despite some of them being good cantidates.

2. When discussions of their behaviour fail to bring them into acceptable behavior, I have no problem telling them to leave.

3. I'm with Maxus, there really isn't anything that I won't forgive once after a stern discussion where I let them know such things are unacceptable behaviour.

Caedrus · Post by **Caedrus** » Mon Jul 20, 2009 4:15 am

Psychic Robot wrote:The drama at BG has this on my mind, so I'd like to know your opinions.

For me, kicking someone out can be done whenever, but it generally shouldn't. Kicking someone out is a last-resort type of action, not your go-to solution.

I'm interested in your opinions, though.

1. Have you ever kicked someone out/been kicked out? If so, why?
2. When is it okay to kick someone out?
3. Are there instances in which you'd kick someone out without warning? (Disregarding situations like "he brought a knife to the game and threatened to eat my face.")

Once I got kicked out of an online game right near the start because I objected to a DM rampantly railroading and actively taking control of PCs away from the players frequently. When I suggested that, you know, maybe I should get to control my own character, the DM got real pissy. Gotta say, didn't miss it. Probably would have left of my own volition if I wasn't kicked. No way I'm going to sit through games like that.

As for me kicking people out... I've never really needed to, but I always vet players before they join the game. Since I turn away more than I play with, I guess that sorta counts as kicking people out...

I have been in quite a few groups, however, where I was not the one DMing and people have been kicked out. Usually there was a good reason, and in those cases everyone was in support of removing the player.

Starmaker · Post by **Starmaker** » Mon Jul 20, 2009 6:57 am

1. I left three times, due to the GMs being fucking asshats advertising one game and running another. I try to stay as long as possible out of respect to other players, even if the game is shit, but hey, I don't want to (1) play a caster only to be told afterwards that everything has SR and I don't want to play an npc, be that npc (2) a redshirt or (3) the GM's wet dream. I've never been kicked out.

2. When a player has a conflict with other players as a group, he's got to go. When a player's character is the problem, the GM's got to solve it via talking because the GM is ultimately to blame for allowing a disruptive character (a PK, a Mary Sue) into the game.

3. Roleplaying something universally repulsive is grounds for being kicked out immediately. I've never run into such a problem as I play face-to-face, but I reckon sick fucks are a somewhat common occurrence in online gaming.

Fuchs · Post by **Fuchs** » Mon Jul 20, 2009 8:42 am

1. A game I was co-DMing at the time had one player kicked out once by the other DM. The group split over that, but it was the right decision - the game was being disrupted, and there were actions taken in character motivated by the troubles between players.
Apart from that it usually was the player leaving, as in not coming anymore.

2. When their rpesence makes the game not fun for the rest of the group.

3. No. I'd always talk first, and try to change things.

virgil · Post by **virgil** » Mon Jul 20, 2009 9:38 am

I've been instantly kicked out of a game for missing a session, which I only missed because there was miscommunication as to starting time.

That same GM, a month later, dissociated me from his entire life via IM (immediately blocked me after declaration) after I told his friend that my initial impression of his new RP system (one session old, very much under construction) looked like a moderately house-ruled D&D.

I had one player that was playing a ragingly evil thug and had his character seriously threatening the cleric with violent death from his polearm if he wasn't healed right away after running from the city guards through a portal where the cleric was waiting (guards had no jurisdiction past the portal, so they didn't give chase). I had to lay down the law against PK in my games, and that player coincidentally had other engagements for all further sessions; up to, and including, oversleeping into 4pm.

Otherwise, I've never seen another player kicked out and I've never had to kick a player out of my own game.

Koumei · Post by **Koumei** » Mon Jul 20, 2009 9:42 am

1. I've probably kicked people out of online games for pissing me off, I can't really remember. I've been asked to leave one online 4E game before it started, because I was arguing with the DM about why 4E sucks vast quantities of testicles. It started with "Okay, so I'll be adding my Wis to your attack rolls, everyone, and because you will all have a starting 20 in your attack stat, that basically means it's doubled, whoo!" and snowballed into a row on which edition was worse.

To be fair, the DM was basically saying "Look, clearly you're not going to enjoy the game, you're determined to hate it, it'd be better if you didn't play, that way you don't play a game you don't like and I don't have to argue with you." as opposed to "You're going to ruin it for everyone."

And I quit anyway, because I knew it was going to suck. I like to think the party went on to go "I wish I listened to kongming/we had a Cleric to grant her Wis to our attacks, why I always miss? ;_;"

Real life? Never happened. I've only HEARD of it once in a group of mine. A guy (he's a bit of a tool in the first place. Nice enough person, but... a bit of a tool. A little irritating.) was suspended from the club for a month because, while going through a hard time, he had problems and broke another player's arm. This was before my time though, and he was as peaceful as a monk (the real ones in temples or the D&D ones that don't attack because they know they'd only miss, your choice) when I met him. And yeah, because the incident was in the past and he had changed since, it was basically never brought up and had no impact on future games.

2. For laughs.
When you know it's just going to cause problems for everyone involved if they remain. Obviously I preface everything with "Just talk about things first and you can avoid this." but yeah, if it's obvious that it's just not going to work, ask them to leave.

So, they always play in a manner that shits everyone/disturbs others/disrupts the game? They always turn up drunk (and this causes a problem)? They're violent? These can be good reasons. Suffering from enjoying Chronic Dick Syndrome (also known as "being a teenage boy") is also a good reason.

3. Without warning? Only for the completely obvious things such as actual violence, threats that you take seriously, felonious activity* and the like. Or possibly just being really disturbing and disgusting, but that'd need to be pretty heavy, given we can laugh off "Lol I rape the dying dragon, what's the Coup de Grace damage for my cock?" and can generally just say "Don't be disgusting, that's not on."

*Unless it's awesome felonious activity. I'd totally let someone play if they arrived saying "Hey guys, I just jacked the ice cream store, who wants a tub?" or "Hey, Koumei, here's a DM bribe: pure hospital-grade heroin."

hogarth · Post by **hogarth** » Mon Jul 20, 2009 1:17 pm

1. No, but I've seen people storming off in a huff (or the internet equivalent of a huff).
2. I'd boot someone out if he was ruining everyone else's fun. I'd give a warning first.
3. If someone did something nasty enough, I guess (e.g. threats of violence).

RobbyPants · Post by **RobbyPants** » Mon Jul 20, 2009 1:19 pm

Personally I haven't but I did come close. I did have one player that got bad enough with cheating and bad playing in general that I finally had to talk to him. I'm not the confrontational sort, so I'd be slow to kick someone out. Still, I don't see a problem with kicking someone out if they aren't willing to play nice with everyone else after they're asked.

Psychic Robot wrote:The drama at BG has this on my mind, so I'd like to know your opinions.

Yeah, I was a bit surprised to see how many of your posts got deleted. I can see them not liking your tone, but I thought a year ago, Meg said that she didn't want to edit/delete posts.

mean_liar · Post by **mean_liar** » Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:19 pm

1. I've been kicked out of multiple games online for rampant minmaxing and powergaming. The roleplay and writing were good but the GMs didn't like the mechanics. A few of them I was belligerent with and a few I wasn't, but in my defense I only ever really join games where this is tacitly or explicitly encouraged.

I've never been booted from a face-to-face game, presumably because communication is much clearer.

We did have one player gently pushed aside when it was clear that his Asperger's (real or just approximate) made gaming with him profoundly unfun. He played characters without personality that would say very little, unless they were delivering a monologue to an NPC he convinced the GM he needed for his own parallel personal storyline. Basically, he refused to meaningfully interact with the other players or the social elements of the game. His last, best effort was when he created a character that decided to just mimic another character's personality. It still fell flat.

He left on business for an extended and indeterminate period and the game we'd been in tied up then anyway. When we eventually started getting together again we had been contacted by a lot of other players in the meantime and just put him in the queue. When he comes up again I hope he'll do a better job.

We had one player/GM that we hung around once simply because he always wanted to run and none of us really did; he had few other positive traits and many negative ones. We ended up just using his world and setting as a prop for our own shenanigans and he dutifully rolled for the NPCs as we marauded.

2. It's okay to kick someone out when the group collectively isn't having fun and the player isn't responding to intervention. It's a game and no one like to get the boot or get shut out, but its still a game and should be fun.

3. I cannot imagine kicking someone without talking to them first, unless for the tier of aforementioned reasons: violence, threats of violence, etc.

tzor · Post by **tzor** » Mon Jul 20, 2009 3:15 pm

It’s been years (almost two decades) sine this event happened so I can’t remember if we actually kicked him out or he walked out but one of my groups (consisting of a lot of co-workers) had a problem with a certain person. Without going into too many details I’ll just say that he was predisposed to be arrogant with an easily fragile male ego.

To make a long story short, he was playing a paladin and the wife of one of the other players was also playing a paladin. His character blew a couple of wisdom checks and started heading off on his quest in the wrong direction. Her character made those wisdom checks. Even knowing this out of character knowledge he refused to acknowledge anything the player was saying to the point of getting into an out of character argument with the player. After a very heated argument she left the group vowing to never play with that player again.

I was only a fellow player at the time, but I know I definitely wanted to kick him out at the time.

Judging__Eagle · Post by **Judging__Eagle** » Mon Jul 20, 2009 3:17 pm

Koumei wrote: 3. Without warning? Only for the completely obvious things such as actual violence, threats that you take seriously, felonious activity* and the like. Or possibly just being really disturbing and disgusting, but that'd need to be pretty heavy, given we can laugh off "Lol I rape the dying dragon, what's the Coup de Grace damage for my cock?" and can generally just say "Don't be disgusting, that's not on."

I guess the inverse of "Dragon cock? I walk." is true.

"The Dragon got cocked. I walked. Out."

Ganbare Gincun · Post by **Ganbare Gincun** » Mon Jul 20, 2009 7:29 pm

I haven't been kicked out of any games, but I have walked away from a few gaming groups because of either poor GMs or asshat players. But I've never been through anything as dramatic as what I've heard about on this forum.

Crissa · Post by **Crissa** » Mon Jul 20, 2009 8:31 pm

Last game I got kicked when a player decided I was trying to sink the game because I had voiced a worry 'the game might collapse if I left, and that would be no fun for anyone' and they turned it into, 'I'm going to collapse the game.'

Further reports say said player had basically taken over the game, her character being the only one doing things.

*sigh*

-Crissa

Koumei · Post by **Koumei** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 12:33 am

It just occurred to me that I've been anti-kicked once: the DM was preparing this level 1 game and I noticed we had ~6-7 players, so I decided to just tactfully decline.

"It seems there are plenty of players - enough that it could get bogged down, and I dislike level 1 games, so I'll bow out of this, leaving an easier-to-handle group."

The DM then instantly said "Is everyone okay if the game is 5th level?"

NineInchNall · Post by **NineInchNall** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 1:43 am

I was kicked out of a group once, for the crime of knowing the rules and being able to do math in my head.

Tom,

After a lot of discussion a blind vote was taken and a majority reached in favor of asking you to leave the gaming group. I'm not going to get into details like 'who' or anything like that but suffice it to say the the majority of the other players in the group felt that the experience would be more enjoyable without you.

I know that there has been a lot of email traffic between you and Mike but by no means blame him or think that this is somehow his doing. I've felt pretty much the same way for quite some time. This would have been an easy thing if you were a prick and no one liked you. The fact is, the unanimous thought is that you are a good guy on a personal level but not really someone people want to game with. It's a matter of style mostly. Most everyone else believes that the rules are guidelines to follow. They are, by necessity, because in a game where anything can happen it is impossible to define a rule for every situation. You believe that as long as the rule doesn't specifically state something can't happen it won't or if it states something WILL happen it MUST happen regardless of context.

Your manipulation of skills, stats and obscure feats is a major source of irritation. The arguing about rulings or comments like 'he must have rolled at least a 17 to hit' are another. It's a pain in the ass enough running the game without having to justify every ruling or dice roll. I think of myself as very fair-minded. If it makes sense I'll roll with it. If it has a huge block of cheese on top of it I'll call bullshit.

Plainly put, I think that other players feel that your influence on the game detracts from their overall enjoyment of it. The feeling was also unanimous that you won't change, mostly because we all think that you feel that your way of doing things is more right than ours.

Have a good one and I hope that you can soon find a group to game with that is more in line with your philosophy and will better appreciate your contribution to their game.

Kind of a bitch move, but what can you expect from the generally socially fucked up gamer demographic.

Kaelik · Post by **Kaelik** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 1:49 am

Awh, poor NIN, he just couldn't understand why randomly fluctuating AC is a positive for the game not a minus.

You ever live in the same place as me, you are welcome to create your cheese and I'll just eat it. I like cheese.

I vote the entire Gaming Den coordinates to show up at Franks house some day and ask him for a game. Maybe wait till he's back in the states, it's not that we couln't find his house (He gave us picutres! What a fool!) but I don't think European apartments really have the space for 50 people at once.

NineInchNall · Post by **NineInchNall** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 5:39 am

Ya know, I think I'd enjoy playing with the GD group. Well, except for the fact that I tend to play powerful characters in a weak manner (as I mentioned in the playstyle thread).

I gotta say, though, having a few neurochemical issues made getting game-kicked kind of a shitty experience, despite the fact that it was the same group that decided ToB was OMGWTFBBQBR0K3NZ3D , but when, at their behest, I replaced my (wait for the weaksauce) Swashbuckler/Swordsage/Warblade with a Druid (with a fleshraker!) they didn't bat an eye.

*sigh* I wish I could find a group with a nice mix of tactical combat and campaign setting-relevant magical tea party.

Kaelik · Post by **Kaelik** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 6:03 am

NineInchNall wrote:*sigh* I wish I could find a group with a nice mix of tactical combat and campaign setting-relevant magical tea party.

Where do you live.

ubernoob · Post by **ubernoob** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 6:07 am

Kaelik wrote:
NineInchNall wrote:*sigh* I wish I could find a group with a nice mix of tactical combat and campaign setting-relevant magical tea party.
Where do you live.

+1. There are totally denners out there.

koz · Post by **koz** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 6:25 am

ubernoob wrote:
Kaelik wrote:
NineInchNall wrote:*sigh* I wish I could find a group with a nice mix of tactical combat and campaign setting-relevant magical tea party.
Where do you live.
+1. There are totally denners out there.

Pity I'm too far removed to be of help, and as far as I'm aware, Denners don't live in New Zealand.

Roog · Post by **Roog** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 7:17 am

Mister_Sinister wrote:Pity I'm too far removed to be of help, and as far as I'm aware, Denners don't live in New Zealand.

Pity

koz · Post by **koz** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 10:39 am

Roog wrote:
Mister_Sinister wrote:Pity I'm too far removed to be of help, and as far as I'm aware, Denners don't live in New Zealand.
Pity

Figures I'd be proven wrong on TGD.

Roy · Post by **Roy** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 1:33 pm

Lulz.

So would a Den raid be like an Anon raid?

If so, I vote the masks look like this:

The Gaming Den

Kicking Players Out

Kicking Players Out

Re: Kicking Players Out

Re: Kicking Players Out