The Gaming Den

Posted: **Thu Aug 11, 2011 9:46 pm**

I am really anxious to make a new class, 85% chance it will be along StormLord all at will usage system, but can't come up with a good idea of what type of class to make. I'm asking for suggestions/ideas/requests.

Binders I will have to decide if that's sufficient.

Truename magic.

Thanks Wot, for at least presenting ideas that are actually like classes I would enjoy making.

Things I currently have unfinished:

Interruption Mage
Monster Classes, especially Dragons.
Elemental Siphon 11-20 PrCs.
Item Crafting in Tome Errata.

Stuff I should make:
Rainbow Mage
Truenaming.

Posted: **Fri Aug 12, 2011 6:51 am**

Well, I was vaguely thinking of redoing the Binder from the Tome of Magic, seeing as having a game where all the magic types *felt* different (say, Fire Mage, Summoner, Binder, Shadow Caster, Totemist) would be really cool.

So if you're offering to have the work offloaded onto you, then by all means!

Posted: **Fri Aug 12, 2011 7:45 am**

Hmm... Not really what I was going for, but I think I will work on it for a bit, starting monday.

Posted: **Fri Aug 12, 2011 7:59 am**

Expanding call to Frank, our resident expert, but also anyone else. Anyone have a good list of beings that might realistically be Vestiges? You know, dead gods of D&D. Famous personalities who aren't fucking Eliminster, ex.

Posted: **Fri Aug 12, 2011 8:14 am**

Well, there's Gygax's cast of characters (yes, I know, fuck him). A vestige based on Dave Arneson could be amusing.

Posted: **Fri Aug 12, 2011 9:13 am**

Would it be better to just let people name their own dead gods and pick abilities from a list? Or are dead gods no-one worships any more "setting-agnostic" enough that they can basically be slotted into any setting that accepts the idea of dead gods at all, allowing for balanced and interesting gods to be selected from?

And thanks for doing that - two arms are better than two, when it comes to typing things up.

Posted: **Fri Aug 12, 2011 10:24 am**

A working truenamer would be nice.

Posted: **Fri Aug 12, 2011 12:17 pm**

These are just off the top of my head, and I don't know if any of these have been done before, so please forgive any redundancies:

"Earth Shaper"

- maybe start with some sort of stomp-like effect. then have increasing levels of earth-moving attacks; eventually graduating to earthquake. Maybe you can create sinkholes, landmine-type effects, bull-rush with wave of earth, etc.
- pepper the class with some sort of acid blasting, with several different AoE's (e.g., line, cone, personal burst, large ranged AoE that erupts from the ground) -- I know that acid may not seem very thematic (depending on your conceptualization), but it is the earth "element".
- speaking of eruption -- hows about a lava-related effect?
- earthglide is a must. eventually turns in to a teleport-like effect. (potentially work in some of your attack option to be used in conjunction). maybe a little plane-shifting to the elemental plane of earth?
- shape earth/stone/metals/gems/etc. .... degree of manipulation gets finer as you level-up. this would obviously have both in and out of combat uses.
- extract/alter materials -- refine materials from raw ores, etc.
- some sort of stone tell or similar divination ability
- perhaps mine the Earth Dreamer and Stonelord PrCs for other possible effects (no pun intended).
- rock-catching/throwing? (I'm probably stretching it at this point)

"Shape Changer"
yourself, others (buff and debuff), inanimate objects

"Enchanter/Mentalist"
- probably mostly just a series of mind-effecting buffs and debuffs. eventually some sort of mind switch-like ability
- mind reader (will eventually want to dispel mindblank) ; range increases with level ; possibly eventually able to overcome immunities.
mix and match as desired.

"Telekinetisist"

... just to name a few

Posted: **Fri Aug 12, 2011 12:31 pm**

Some type of artificer would be nice. The ability to put various effects on weapons

Posted: **Fri Aug 12, 2011 3:05 pm**

Also, I'm not Frank, but without checking the actual book (I think it's stored in a cupboard underneath several boxes that I can't lift with just one arm), here are the dead deities I know of (see: grabbed from Wiki):

Forgotten Realms, based on Babylonian:
[*]Gilgeam: Former god of battle, prowess, strength. Slain by Tiamat.
[*]Girru: Slain by an unnamed orc deity.
[*]Inanna: Former Goddess of War and Love. Slain by an unnamed orc deity.
[*]Ki: Former Spirit/mother-goddess of the Earth. Slain by an unnamed orc deity.
[*]Marduk: Slain by an unnamed orc deity.
[*]Nanna-Sin: Former God of The Moon and protection against Evil. Slain by an unnamed orc deity.
[*]Nergal: Former god of the underworld. Slain by an unnamed orc deity.
[*]Ramman: Former god of duty, order, vigilance, war. Slain by Hoar.
[*]Utu: Former God of the Sun and Justice. Slain by an unnamed orc deity.

Forgotten Realms, other:
[*]Amaunator (also called At'ar): Former god of bureaucracy, law, order, the sun. Faded from lack of worship. Reappears as an evolving aspect of Lathander.
[*]Auppenser, also known as "Our Lord of Reason", "The Master of Thought", and "The Serene One", is the deity of Balance, Mentalism, Protection, Psionics, and Strength. He is initially relatively powerful, worshiped by human and demihuman psions, monks, and psychic warriors, and all manner of psionic creatures such as blues and duergar. After the collapse of Jhaamdath, his main place of worship, he loses most of his followers and goes into a deep slumber to keep existing. Auppenser is a strong-minded deity given over as much to deep contemplation as he is to decisive action. The god of psionics possesses a calm demeanor, as one completely confident in his clear-thinking ways. He strives to uphold the Balance wherever psionics are involved.
[*]Bhaal: Former god of assassination, murder, violence. Slain by Cyric and Mask.
[*]Chronos: Former god of time.
[*]Earthmother: Former goddess of life. Slain by Bhaal.
[*]Eshowdow: Former god of Chult. Slain by Shar.
[*]Ibrandul: Former god of Caverns, dungeons, skulks. Slain by Shar.
[*]Iyachtu Xvim: Former god of tyranny, hatred, fear. Destroyed by Bane during his return.
[*]Jazirian: Former god of couatls. Slain by Merrshaulk.
[*]Kalzareinad: Former god of the uncaring, evil, or selfish application of dragon magic. Slain by Kareska.
[*]Karsus: very briefly (a matter of minutes) a former god of magic and hubris, after, as a mortal man, he stole the powers of the first goddess of magic with a powerful magical spell, which caused magic to cease during his attempt. Died following the sacrifice of Mystryl to restore the proper functioning of magic in the Realms. Known as the 'Momentary God'.
[*]Kiputytto: Former goddess of sickness. Slain by Talona.
[*]Kukul: Former Maztican god of creation
[*]Leira: Former goddess of deception, illusion, mist and shadow. Slain by Cyric and Mask.
[*]Moander: Former god of decay, corruption, rot. Slain by Finder Wyvernspur.
[*]Murdane: Former goddess of reason, pragmatism. Slain during the Dawn Cataclysm.
[*]Myrkul: Former god of corruption, the dead, death, old age. Slain by Mystra.
[*]Mystra: The reincarnated Mystryl and former goddess of magic, spells, and the Weave. Slain by Helm during the Time of Troubles and replaced by the mortal woman Midnight (who now goes by Mystra's name).
[*]Mystryl: Original goddess of magic created by the combined essences of Selûne and Shar. Sacrificed herself to repair the damage caused by Karsus's ascension.
[*]Othea: Former goddess of giants, motherhood. Slain by Lanaxis, one of her children.
[*]Ra: Former Mulhorandi god of the sun. Slain by Gruumsh.
[*]The Seven Lost Gods, all of whom "bowed down before Bane", including:

Camnod the Unseen
Borem of the Lake of Boiling Mud: Former god of anger
Haask, the Voice of Hargut
Maram of the Great Spear
Tyranthraxus the Flamed One

[*]Tyche: Former goddess of luck. Split into Beshaba and Tymora.
[*]Valigan Thirdborn: Former god of anarchy. Slain by Tyr.
[*]World Serpent: Former god of the sarrukh. Fragmented into the deities of the lizardfolk, naga, and yuan-ti.

Midkemia (novels, based on a D&D game, so kind of counts):
[*]Drusala - Goddess of Healing. (Sung reigns in her sister's place)
[*]Eortis - God of the Sea. (Killian reigns in his place)
[*]Isanda - Goddess of dance
[*]Onanka-Tith - the dead half of Tith-Onanka
[*]Sarig - "Lost" God of Magic.
[*]Wodar-Hospur - God of Knowledge; the Lorekeeper. (Banath is custodian in his place)

4E:
[*]Amoth - God of Justice and Mercy. Killed by the demon princes Orcus, Demogorgon and Rimmon.
[*]Gorellik - God of Hunting, Beasts, and Gnolls. Killed by the demon lord Yeenoghu.
[*]He Who Was - A god of good and possibly peace, he was killed by his archangel and exarch, Asmodeus. Implied to be the creator of humans, the devils wiped out all knowledge of his name, which they fear is powerful enough to revive him if it is ever spoken aloud again. The Nine Hells were originally his astral domain, now a prison for Asmodeus and his devils. A holy chalice belonging to him is mentioned in Divine Power.
[*]Khala - Goddess of Winter, wife of Zehir, mother of Kord, Khala sought to trap the natural world in an eternal winter to secure power over it. Her plans convinced the primal spirits to expel gods and primordials from the world. She was killed by the other gods in a conflict called the War of Winter, who afterwards made a compact to balance darkness and light (Zehir and Pelor), and the natural seasons (Corellon, Pelor and Sehanine). Her power over winter was taken by the Raven Queen.
[*]Lakal- God of Healing and Mercy who was also her own Astral Dominion. She was an impersonal deity who communicated with her chosen people, the Quom, through "ecstatic moments of personal communion." She extolled mercy and urged her followers to dedicate themselves to pursuits that benefitted the whole cosmos. Lakal's death was accidental- when Bahamut battled Nihil, the Primoridial of nothingness, the pair crashed into Lakal. Bahamut was able to use the distraction to slay Nihil, but the primoridal's death throes also caused Lakal to explode. The surviving quom now roam the planes, retrieving any shards of Lakal that they can find, including those unknowingly consumed by living creatures. Such creatures, including humanoids and player characters, are considered collateral damage in the quom's quest to restore Lakal. Ironically, even if the quom succeed in their quest, the restored Lakal would be disgusted with their methods.
[*]Maglubiyet - God of Goblinoids. Defeated by Bane.
[*]Nerull - God of Death and the Dead. Killed by The Raven Queen.
[*]Tuern - God of War. Killed by Bane.
[*]Nusemnee - Nusemnee was the daughter of Zehir and a powerful devil. When she failed to assassinate a high priest of Pelor, she was abandoned and then mortally wounded by a paladin’s holy blade. Expecting only death, she was surprised when the high priest healed her, showing her compassion and forgiveness. Intrigued, she decided to honor a promise to the high priest and aid him in his holy quest until a time that she could save his life in turn. Nusemnee thus became a symbol of redemption. When she finally died at the end of the high priest’s quest, she rose again, this time as a minor goddess. In this form, she opposed her father by offering redemption to all who would turn away from evil. She was later killed by a poison that could kill anything—even a deity—that was distilled from Zehir’s blood.

Posted: **Fri Aug 12, 2011 6:46 pm**

Honestly I'd like to see any of the classes from the Tome of Magic redone, so Binder seems as good a place as any to start. Though until the Truenamer gets fixed I'll continue to cry myself to sleep knowing it exists.

Posted: **Fri Aug 12, 2011 7:23 pm**

Koumei wrote:Also, I'm not Frank, but without checking the actual book

You don't need to go that far.

Posted: **Fri Aug 12, 2011 10:20 pm**

Didn't someone already redo binders?

Posted: **Sat Aug 13, 2011 7:48 pm**

Kiputytto: Former goddess of sickness. Slain by Talona.

Ffs. I find it disturbing to find finnish used to portray a Faerunian goddess. Kiputytto translated directly to "paingirl"...

Damn.

On Topic: Possibly a remake of gunmagesque class more on line with other spell-like ability using classes of the Tome-series.

Posted: **Sat Aug 13, 2011 8:31 pm**

wotmaniac wrote:"Earth Shaper"

- maybe start with some sort of stomp-like effect. then have increasing levels of earth-moving attacks; eventually graduating to earthquake. Maybe you can create sinkholes, landmine-type effects, bull-rush with wave of earth, etc.
- pepper the class with some sort of acid blasting, with several different AoE's (e.g., line, cone, personal burst, large ranged AoE that erupts from the ground) -- I know that acid may not seem very thematic (depending on your conceptualization), but it is the earth "element".
- speaking of eruption -- hows about a lava-related effect?
- earthglide is a must. eventually turns in to a teleport-like effect. (potentially work in some of your attack option to be used in conjunction). maybe a little plane-shifting to the elemental plane of earth?
- shape earth/stone/metals/gems/etc. .... degree of manipulation gets finer as you level-up. this would obviously have both in and out of combat uses.
- extract/alter materials -- refine materials from raw ores, etc.
- some sort of stone tell or similar divination ability
- perhaps mine the Earth Dreamer and Stonelord PrCs for other possible effects (no pun intended).
- rock-catching/throwing? (I'm probably stretching it at this point)

Earth whatevers have two problems: 1) Most of their abilities that are actually interesting are in classes that have other things too, IE Sand Shaper and Conduit with Expert Stone Sphere already have Wall of Stone/Stone Shape/Stone Tell effects, and Conduit gets Earthglide too.

Secondly, Earth people kinda suck in D&D, in the sense that lots of stuff not having to with Earth happens. At level 12, everyone can fly, but you might also go into a dungeon, and if the dungeon is made of stone, they are probably a little too good, but if everyone is flying, they lose out on most of their abilities, and if god forbid you travel to another plane or get on a boat for any reason, you are ass. Have fun on any of the non Elemental Earth planes as an Earth shaper. Trying to make an Earth shaper is what lead me to making the Elemental Siphon, Just like trying to make an Air Mage/Water Mage is what made me make the Storm Lord.

wotmaniac wrote:"Shape Changer"
yourself, others (buff and debuff), inanimate objects

I only make casters, I hate polymorph, and there is at least one already, better than I'll be able to ever make, because see one and two.

wotmaniac wrote:"Enchanter/Mentalist"
- probably mostly just a series of mind-effecting buffs and debuffs. eventually some sort of mind switch-like ability
- mind reader (will eventually want to dispel mindblank) ; range increases with level ; possibly eventually able to overcome immunities.
mix and match as desired.

I hate minions.

wotmaniac wrote:"Telekinetisist"

There are several Tome classes like that, they are usually boring.

Posted: **Sun Aug 14, 2011 2:45 am**

Hieronymous Rex said it, the binder has already been re-done. And it's the pretty obvious solution for binder problems. Unless you plan on varying things wildly from the generic solution for binder problems (shitty scaling, I do believe), you'd probably just be making another version of the Uber/Sinister binder, which isn't very awesome.

But don't let me stop you.

Posted: **Sun Aug 14, 2011 3:48 am**

Sorry, I wasn't aware it existed when I asked. In that case, I will just throw ideas out for Kaelik, rather than request anything:

[*]IIRC the Interruption Mage is very unfinished
[*]A useful Bard (possibly a Sonic-and-Morale EQ of the Fire Mage etc?)
[*]A Curse-based Spooky Shaman that mostly Debuffs Never mind, your Shadowcaster and my Witch cover that
[*]Rainbow Sparkle Mage! From Colour Spray and Hypnotic Pattern to Prismatic Effects to whatever Illusions you think suit it
[*]Something like the WoW Death Knight, with Diseases, Poisons, and special effects that really fuck people who are already Diseased/Poisoned/Penalised?

There. Feel free to say why any or all are terrible ideas.

Posted: **Sun Aug 14, 2011 5:11 am**

I also like truenaming, just so I can say "The Den corrected Tome of Magic. Here you go," when people ask for shadowcaster/binder/truenamer stuff.

Posted: **Sun Aug 14, 2011 7:12 pm**

Koumei wrote: [*]Rainbow Sparkle Mage! From Colour Spray and Hypnotic Pattern to Prismatic Effects to whatever Illusions you think suit it

I vote for this one just because I think it would be hilarious to see Kaelik make one.

Posted: **Mon Aug 15, 2011 7:24 am**

Considering most of the vestige names from ToM are just cribbed directly from the Lesser Key of Solomon, it might be nice to see those be more accurately attributed with characteristics originally given to each demon.

Plus, while I'd like to think that using names from western demonology would be particularly offensive to the BADD types, most of them would be wholly ignorant of such, which is nominally amusing of itself.

Posted: **Mon Aug 15, 2011 7:48 am**

Nebuchadnezzar wrote:Considering most of the vestige names from ToM are just cribbed directly from the Lesser Key of Solomon, it might be nice to see those be more accurately attributed with characteristics originally given to each demon.

Andromalius was the coolest of the bunch. His description was amazing.

Posted: **Mon Aug 15, 2011 8:38 pm**

'twas the greatest prank in history.

Posted: **Tue Aug 16, 2011 2:38 am**

A crafter that is neither broken nor worthless?

Something with dragons that doesn't suck? (is it even possible?)

Something that has a reasonable chance of killing an aboleth, but isn't OP?

Illusion mage?

Posted: **Tue Aug 16, 2011 4:32 pm**

fectin wrote: Something with dragons that doesn't suck? (is it even possible?)

I know Kaelik made rules for playing a dragon a while ago, but I don't know if they're polished or not. Or are you thinking of something different like a dragon heritage sorcerer, dragon shaman, or dragonfire adept?

Posted: **Tue Aug 16, 2011 5:38 pm**

Koumei wrote:Rainbow Sparkle Mage! From Colour Spray and Hypnotic Pattern to Prismatic Effects to whatever Illusions you think suit it

Maybe.

Koumei wrote:Something like the WoW Death Knight, with Diseases, Poisons, and special effects that really fuck people who are already Diseased/Poisoned/Penalised?

Problem: One of the following must be true:

1) Death Knight is shit against Poison/Disease immune creatures.
2) Death Knight can't penetrate any immunity and Disease people who are immune to Diseases. And therefore, lose lots of the flavor, and just feel like generic condition guy.

fectin wrote:A crafter that is neither broken nor worthless?

I really hope this is just you trying to subtly convince me to actually finish my item crafting rules.

fectin wrote:Something with dragons that doesn't suck? (is it even possible?)

Yeah, more explanation here. I really should finish my incomplete projects, but I'm not sure if that's what you are asking for.

PS, it looks like I won't be creating anything, because all I have to do is hold out till the 23rd.

fectin wrote:Something that has a reasonable chance of killing an aboleth, but isn't OP?

I think I already made a class with True Seeing always on.

The Gaming Den

Need to make new class, have no idea what to make.

Need to make new class, have no idea what to make.