The Shadowrun Situation

Stahlseele · Post by **Stahlseele** » Tue Aug 16, 2011 11:57 am

a pdf should not be more expensive or even as expensive as the dead tree variant . .

edit: OK so the PDF clocks in at $25 and dead tree at $44,95 . .
this is slightly more humane . . still a bit steep . . but at least it's full colour . .

Wesley Street · Post by **Wesley Street** » Tue Aug 16, 2011 2:55 pm

For the sake of comparison, Seattle 2072 is 200 pages, full color, and $44.99 retail. However the writing isn't as awful.

Fucks · Post by **Fucks** » Tue Aug 16, 2011 3:01 pm

Stahlseele wrote:a pdf should not be more expensive or even as expensive as the dead tree variant . .
.

You've been talking about that a PDF should be $20-30? Wasn't clear to me.

Stahlseele · Post by **Stahlseele** » Tue Aug 16, 2011 3:05 pm

Fucks wrote:
Stahlseele wrote:a pdf should not be more expensive or even as expensive as the dead tree variant . .
.
You've been talking about that a PDF should be $20-30? Wasn't clear to me. :headscratch:

untill it was pointed out to me(some minutes before that edit), i did not even know that there are prices for a dead tree book yet . . i thought all there was to street legends was another pdf only release . .

Fucks · Post by **Fucks** » Tue Aug 16, 2011 3:36 pm

Ignorance is Strength.

Stahlseele · Post by **Stahlseele** » Tue Aug 16, 2011 4:22 pm

certainly is . . power of rightousness or however that nonsense is spelled . .

Neurosis · Post by **Neurosis** » Tue Aug 16, 2011 4:30 pm

Edit: Changed my mind.

Ancient History · Post by **Ancient History** » Tue Aug 16, 2011 4:37 pm

[/edit] He changed his mind.

Stahlseele · Post by **Stahlseele** » Tue Aug 16, 2011 8:11 pm

oy vey . . seems battletech is the next target they want to ruin . . i just had the displeasure of scrolling through the War of Reavening PDF a buddy of mine sent my way . .

TheFlatline · Post by **TheFlatline** » Tue Aug 16, 2011 11:01 pm

Ancient History wrote:I officially don't understand pricing anymore.

For those just tuning in (ha), the latest print book, Street Legends is going to hit the brick-and-mortar with a price of $44.99. If that seems like a lot, it's because it really fucking is. For comparison, the nominal cover price of Shadowrun 4th Edition 20th Anniversary Edition is also $44.99. I don't know if they're factoring in the Amazon discount already, but that's a lot of money for that little book - SR4A is 373 pages, SL is less than 200.

I know companies can get away with charging those prices - Rogue Trader and Dark Heresy, for example, both clock in at $59.95 nominal for the core books, with sourcebooks at $49.95 - so you could argue that maybe SR4A is underpriced by comparison. But those books have much higher production values and actual editing. It's really glaring to me to see them charge that much for an SR sourcebook.

Jesus Christ.

Let's be honest here. Catalyst is charging *more* with Street Legends than Dark Heresy is for splat books by 5 bucks:

http://www.amazon.com/Dark-Heresy-Fanta ... 526&sr=8-1

The latest splat book for DH, which covers a third of the focus of the game and gives rules to play as Grey Knights and a bunch of other shit retails for 40 bucks. And it's not just a book of NPCs.

CGL is fucking insane. Either that or they have to pay a premium to print books any more, and they're passing that cost onto the consumer.

Stahlseele · Post by **Stahlseele** » Tue Aug 16, 2011 11:39 pm

probably a bit of coloumn a and a bit of coloumn b . .

Seerow · Post by **Seerow** » Wed Aug 17, 2011 12:07 am

CGL is fucking insane. Either that or they have to pay a premium to print books any more, and they're passing that cost onto the consumer.

To my understanding, printing is an issue of volume. Printing a few hundred books costs MUCH more per unit that printing 100,000 books. That economy of scale means a company doing well can print more books they know will sell, and get them all cheaper. My guess is CGL is predicting pretty low sales, cause SR has been lagging in that department for a while now, so have a pretty small printing, which is costing them out the ass.

Otakusensei · Post by **Otakusensei** » Wed Aug 17, 2011 12:15 am

Seerow wrote:
CGL is fucking insane. Either that or they have to pay a premium to print books any more, and they're passing that cost onto the consumer.
To my understanding, printing is an issue of volume. Printing a few hundred books costs MUCH more per unit that printing 100,000 books. That economy of scale means a company doing well can print more books they know will sell, and get them all cheaper. My guess is CGL is predicting pretty low sales, cause SR has been lagging in that department for a while now, so have a pretty small printing, which is costing them out the ass.

And they have no one but themselves to blame. Jason Hardy once told me that he would be doing everything he could to be a good steward of the Shadowrun license, and that if he was unable to be a good steward he didn't deserve his position.

I wonder who he blames for the current state for the game, because I don't see him stepping down or passing it on.

Stahlseele · Post by **Stahlseele** » Wed Aug 17, 2011 12:36 am

Frank of course, who else would he be blaming?

TheFlatline · Post by **TheFlatline** » Wed Aug 17, 2011 2:47 am

Point is... when you're outpricing the traditionally overpriced games workshop stuff, you know you've officially jumped the shark.

nikita · Post by **nikita** » Wed Aug 17, 2011 12:20 pm

Stahlseele wrote:oy vey . . seems battletech is the next target they want to ruin . . i just had the displeasure of scrolling through the War of Reavening PDF a buddy of mine sent my way . .

I am World's Greatest BattleTech Fanboi(tm) but I have not bought anything after Strategic Operations because I am not satisfied with quality of Jihad story line. Could you please tell me what kind of "brilliant" plot lines they have now come up with on their quest to cull Clans...

raben-aas · Post by **raben-aas** » Wed Aug 17, 2011 12:48 pm

TheFlatline wrote:Point is... when you're outpricing the traditionally overpriced games workshop stuff, you know you've officially jumped the shark.

That may be true if the number of copies produced is roughly comparable. If that is (still) the case – or ever was – I simply don't know.

Stahlseele · Post by **Stahlseele** » Wed Aug 17, 2011 4:20 pm

nikita wrote:
Stahlseele wrote:oy vey . . seems battletech is the next target they want to ruin . . i just had the displeasure of scrolling through the War of Reavening PDF a buddy of mine sent my way . .
I am World's Greatest BattleTech Fanboi(tm) but I have not bought anything after Strategic Operations because I am not satisfied with quality of Jihad story line. Could you please tell me what kind of "brilliant" plot lines they have now come up with on their quest to cull Clans...

Quad Protomechs
WIGE-Protomechs.
GENETIC WARFARE IN THE CLANS.

TheFlatline · Post by **TheFlatline** » Wed Aug 17, 2011 9:11 pm

raben-aas wrote:
TheFlatline wrote:Point is... when you're outpricing the traditionally overpriced games workshop stuff, you know you've officially jumped the shark.
That may be true if the number of copies produced is roughly comparable. If that is (still) the case – or ever was – I simply don't know.

Err... no. Print run has nothing to do with it. My point is that MSRP for a 2nd or even 3rd tier Shadowrun book is higher than a 2nd tier games workshop license RPG, which usually runs about 20-30% higher prices due to the GW license.

Street Legends: 45 dollars MSRP.

Dark Heresy Daemon Hunter: 40 dollars MSRP

Dark Heresy Blood of the Martyrs: 40 dollars MSRP

Deathwatch Mark of the Xenos: 40 dollars MSRP

Rogue Trader Xenos Compendium: 40 dollars MSRP

Are there 50 dollar expansion books for W40k? Yeah... but they're 1st tier expansions, roughly equivalent to Street Magic and Matrix. We haven't seen a 1st tier book released lately for SR, so it's entirely possible that they'll hit us for 55 bucks there.

Stahlseele · Post by **Stahlseele** » Wed Aug 17, 2011 9:19 pm

TheFlatline wrote:
raben-aas wrote:
TheFlatline wrote:Point is... when you're outpricing the traditionally overpriced games workshop stuff, you know you've officially jumped the shark.
That may be true if the number of copies produced is roughly comparable. If that is (still) the case – or ever was – I simply don't know.
Err... no. Print run has nothing to do with it. My point is that MSRP for a 2nd or even 3rd tier Shadowrun book is higher than a 2nd tier games workshop license RPG, which usually runs about 20-30% higher prices due to the GW license.

Street Legends: 45 dollars MSRP.

Dark Heresy Daemon Hunter: 40 dollars MSRP

Dark Heresy Blood of the Martyrs: 40 dollars MSRP

Deathwatch Mark of the Xenos: 40 dollars MSRP

Rogue Trader Xenos Compendium: 40 dollars MSRP

Are there 50 dollar expansion books for W40k? Yeah... but they're 1st tier expansions, roughly equivalent to Street Magic and Matrix. We haven't seen a 1st tier book released lately for SR, so it's entirely possible that they'll hit us for 55 bucks there.

what could they release in that regard?
Core book is out.
Magic is out
Samurai is out
Gear is out
Matrix is out
Critters is out
Advanced Player Options is out
There is, simply, nothing LEFT to release with a price tag like that . .

TheFlatline · Post by **TheFlatline** » Wed Aug 17, 2011 10:41 pm

No you're right... I'm talking hypothetically if we saw a new 1st tier release.

Or hell... maybe reprints will hit 50 bucks.

Stahlseele · Post by **Stahlseele** » Wed Aug 17, 2011 10:47 pm

Well, shadowrun 3 reprints would be worth it, at least . . *snickers*

Windjammer · Post by **Windjammer** » Thu Aug 18, 2011 6:16 am

Why is pricing even an issue for you guys? Any of you seriously buying this crap at this point? I thought most people around here stopped buying Catalyst material, whether it's Shadowrun or otherwise. Or have they produced anything of late that even merits attention?

The only point that remains to be made is that the increase in pricing reflects as much as causes the reduced number of customers/purchases per title. That's why the comparison with FFG (Deathwatch et al) is quite apt.

Charging 40 dollars for 160 pages is a bit like charging 33 dollars for 30 toy soldiers [1:72] which manufacture for 20 cents each - alluding here to their glorified nothing in a box expansions for Battles of Westeros. That's how FFG runs expansion material - beyond the core products (core rules, core game) FFG specifically cater to people with more money than sense.

Blasted · Post by **Blasted** » Thu Aug 18, 2011 6:49 am

Given CGL has explicitly stated that it's trying to become a FFG style company, this isn't surprising. The pricing and expansion model for Leviathans looks suspiciously exactly the same as Dust: Tactics.
Except Dust: Tactics has some low priced additions, which Leviathans misses out on ATM.

UmaroVI · Post by **UmaroVI** » Thu Aug 18, 2011 10:47 am

Maybe they could release a "we unfucked the vehicle and rigging rules" book for 55 bucks?

Maybe pigs will fly. Actually, given how stupid the paracritters in general are, there probably are flying pigs already.