[Eberron] Breaking the Artificer

[User3]

After reading a bunch of threads on the character optimzation and Eberron forums at wotc, I see that the Artificer core class has the potential to be even more effective than Frank's Cleric Archer or the Cleric Melee Dude at delivering out ungodly quantities of damage.

We're talking a UMD maxed out Artificer here. One that uses and abuses the Metamagic Spell Trigger class ability in conjunction with metamagic feats (picked up at 1st, 3rd, 6th level, etc).

A well built min-maxed Artificer can eventually deal hundreds of dice worth of damage by using MST on a Wand of Lesser Sonic/Acid Orb or Scorching Ray by applying for basically free - the Twin Spell, Energy Admixture Spell, and Maximize Spell metamagic feats.

In addition, the min maxed Artificer can easily use the Persistent or Quickened Divine Power cheese as easily as a Cleric.

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Anyone have any thoughts on the Artificer core class being one of the top-tier core classes in the game (power wise)?

[Username17]

The simplest way to abuse the Artificer is that you can use your Craft Reserve to make a spell-trigger item of Restoration. Once you do that, you win D&D - you can reset your craft reserve by losing a level and giving it back to yourself with the stick.

So you have unlimited XP for crafting. And you can make any item by meeting the pereqs with UMD. As to specifically how you beat the game bloody - well, I remain unimpressed with blasting as a meaningful method for doing things.

While your craft reserve never gets big enough to make wishes - it does get big enough to make staves of Holy Word. Once you do that, your caster level is then your Use Magic Device skill result minus twenty - so if you can hit a UMD result of 50, you can kill 18 hit die creatures. And oh man, you can jack your UMD roll way higher than 50. I'm talking about getting a +10 Insight bonus to UMD, a +10 competence bonus to UMD. You can get a luck bonus, a morale bonus, and an enhancement bonus to that stupid skill. Then you get a d20 to add on top of that - your check result is going to be insane.

The Artificer can basically be The Word at a much lower level. You won't kill gods or anything, but you can essentially pull it off at 13th level if that's what you want to do.

-Username17

[User3]

Don't forget that you can also be The Wish at 13th level too, either by creating a scroll of Planar Binding or Gate for Efreet goodness or by simply biting the bullet XP-wise and making an item with one Wish, like a scroll.

Once you get that spell-like Wish or item-Wish, you can ignore XP costs on that Wish for massive free item creation for things like Rings of Wishes.

Sadly, however, its not Artificer-only cheese.

[User3]

Retain Essence is also a breakable class ability for the Artificer. Huge, non-transportable stupid stuff (like magic altars) in dungeons can be broken down for XP. Stuff that normal adventurers would have to bypass due to non-portability issues.

There has to be some other cheese to Retain Essence as well.

[fbmf]

1102368702[/unixtime]]Retain Essence is also a breakable class ability for the Artificer.

So not only is Maj's ability to stay married a class feature, but it's a broken class feature.

[action]ducks and runs[/action]

Game On,
fbmf

[MrWaeseL]

laaaaame

[Wrenfield]

Yeah, you can build a pretty shiit-hot, tricked-out, min-maxified Artificer Archer or a Artificer Direct Damage Blaster. A good, meticulously built high level Artificer can actually integrate both concepts into the same build.

In addition, your Artificer can *still* be the best UMD guy in the game, AND being the party Trap-Monkey, AND being the freakin' ultimate Magic Item Crafter to boot.

There's not a damn weak thing about the Artificer either.

[Username17]

There's not a damn weak thing about the Artificer either.

I wouldn't go that far. While eventually Artificers can make items of Skill Enhancement that opperate at their caster level as emulated by Use Magic Device augmented by their own previous casting of skill enhancement - a power loop that is similar to the Spelldancer in terms of net effect - they can't do that at first level.

In fact, at first level there's basically not a whole lot they can do. They can work with the party wizard and crank out 20 scrolls before they get to 2nd level, and that's kind of cool, but the artificer himself is not actually contributing much to the party - he can't even reliably use the scrolls he helps to write.

Eventually yes, the artificer becomes a class where your power is limited only by your ability to do accounting. But until then, you're just like a rogue with no sneak attack and less skills.

The early life of an artificer is very hard. I don't know how they are supposed to get by.

-Username17

[The_Hanged_Man]

Actually playing in an organic Eberron campaign, I find the Artificer pretty lame. It downright sucks until 5th level, where it becomes kind of kewl. The Artificer is basically a rogue who can't use Sneak Attack until then.

In the teens, my player is going to have lots of kewl stuff to do, but c'mon. It's a caster in the teens. Any core caster made w/ any care, except maybe a Bard, has lots of kewl stuff to do.

[Username17]

Hell yeah. Of course, the magic number is 92. If you can get your UMD check result up to 92 (including a very large bonus from "Skill Enhancer"), then you can make a charge off your Staff of extended Skill Enhancer (caster level: 72) last all day. So if your UMD bonus before your competence bonus and your UMD roll (which you will take ten on) is 44, you cn wander around with maximal enhancement all the time - and cast any other spell you feel like out of a staff at caster level 72 - instantly killing any creature with 60 hit dice or less.

Since there is a spell on the artificer list available at level 8 that allows you to double up on that - you can get the ball rolling the very instant you get your grubby hands on a staff of Extended Skill Enhancer - which you can make at level 12.

Level 12 is, therefore, the level at which it all goes crazy. At that point you get to be a Spell Dancer and go crazy-go-nuts forever. Of course, as THM says - it's a 12th level spellcaster, who cares?

-Username17

[User3]

One of the things I like about the Artificer is the relative simplicity of integrating and simulating spells from every single class in the game - Sorc/Wiz, Cleric, Druid, Bard, Hexblade, Assassin, Wu-Jen, Sohei, Ranger, Paladin, you name it.

He literally can pick and choose from every single spell list in God's creation (in D&D). Totally bonkers I tell ya.

[Username17]

Also key to the abuse of the Artificer is the Staff of Extended Power Surge. It's expensive, but once you got that going you never need to use up charges on anything ever again. You'll want a ring of sustenence so that you can get by with little enough sleep to keep having the staff power surge itself - but once you do, you just have the last temporary charge used to power the staff with more temporary charges and you are good for unlimited charges on anything you ever use.

-Username17

[Prak]

Am I missing something? Competence bonus to a skill doesn't seem to be limited by anything except how much money and time you're willing to put into an item, so I don't see why "Skill enhancer, UMD" is an infinite loop.

[Username17]

Am I missing something? Competence bonus to a skill doesn't seem to be limited by anything except how much money and time you're willing to put into an item, so I don't see why "Skill enhancer, UMD" is an infinite loop.

When you activate a staff, the caster level of the effect is your caster level.
When you use UMD to activate a staff, your caster level for that purpose is your UMD result.
When you use Skill Enhancer, the bonus you get to the skill of your choice is your caster level (no cap).

So when you use UMD to activate a staff of Skill Enhancer to give a bonus to your UMD result, and then do exactly that again, your UMD bonus, and thus your effective caster level, and thus your bonus to UMD is larger the second time than it is the first. And when you do it the third time, it's larger still.

It's only an actual infinite loop if your staff also does power surge, so that you also have unlimited charges. But that is also on the Artificer list, so it's basically just a formality.

But honestly, why are you necroing decade old threads about shitty broken classes that can't play the game at 3rd level and break the system in half at 12th?

-Username17

[Prak]

Ok, I see what I was missing. I was focusing on items, and hadn't looked over the entire Infusion list yet. I didn't know Skill Enhancement was an Infusion.

As to why I'm necro'ing- because I like playing item crafter characters, and while wizards are better in an actual abilities sense, artificers get (nearly) all the item creation feats as class features, and an xp reserve, and can pull xp out of items, and can make items with any spell in the game without my having to argue with the DM about interpretations of Wizard spell learning or finding spirit nagas or buy scrolls first. So I'm going to play an artificer. Hell, a friend of mine is playing a fighter in the same damned game because he knows the group and how games go and how often the players shoot themselves in the foot for a concept. Yes a wizard can cast spells better, but an artificer can walk into the game with gauntlets of produce flame without spending any character resource other than less than half the gold another character would spend on buying them.

I like crafters, and I seriously doubt I need to even pull Transmuter level optimization in this group. At least not until we get high enough level that the GM can throw gem dragons at us without every smacking him and walking out, at which point I can pull out my Rod of Kill-Fucking-Dragons and it's not a damned big deal.

Basically, I don't need an optimized character in this game. I'm pretty sure a 1d6+4 damage ranged touch fire attack essentially at will is going to be more than enough to wreck shit. Especially if I walk in with an amulet of Divine Favour to go with it.

[Rawbeard]

That might be one of the most impressive nekros I have ever seen. Kudos to your google-fu, man.