Sharing the Experience Drain?

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Jack_Lurch
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Sharing the Experience Drain?

Post by Jack_Lurch »

Frank wrote:
Remember, especially on armor enchanting - which is done during down time - if you can't do it at least as well as any other character in your party you may as well not be able to do it. It doesn't actually make very much difference who's spplying the Item Creation feat - since characters can jolly well share out the XP drain regardless.


How?

Some Magic Jar trick?

-Jack
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Re: Sharing the Experience Drain?

Post by Username17 »

No, any number of characters can participate in creating a magic item - and any or all of them can contribute one or more of the prerequisites (such as the Item Creation Feat or a needed spell). One of the characters is chosen by the group as the primary creator and that character pays the XP.

That character need not be the one who has the item creation feat, however.

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Jack_Lurch
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Re: Sharing the Experience Drain?

Post by Jack_Lurch »

Can you cite this for me? Is this some 3.5 nonsense?

-Jack
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Count Arioch the 28th
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Re: Sharing the Experience Drain?

Post by Count Arioch the 28th »

I think it might be an extrapolation from the rule that you can cast spells from other sources, like a wand or staff or scroll, so it's logical to allow another caster to do that as well.

Also, you can have someone else make the weapon to be enchanted as well.

The ability to choose a person without the feat to spend EXP sounds more like an oversight to me, but it's one of the more minor ones, I think.

And also, I beleive that the ELH has rules for sharing EXP when making magic stuff as well.
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Re: Sharing the Experience Drain?

Post by Username17 »

It's right out of the 3.5 DMG. However, the 3rd edition DMG implied this was possible when they said that more than one character could contribute to making an item on page 241 (although how one was to go about doing this was unclear).

The ELH says that characters can contribute XP towards making magic items: it's on page 125 - only PCs can do it, and the primary creator must come up with at least 25% of the XP cost (although there is nothing to stop the characters from announcing that Paladin Bob is the primary creator....).

The only rules set which actually says that the XP has to come from one character is the 3.5 DMG - although it explicitly allows that block of XP to come from any of the characters.

Having magic items cost XP in the first place is inherently broken - as it is gainingpower instead of levels - which unlike gaining power from levels does not reduce the amount of XP you receive from adventuring in the future. Therefore, XP "costs" aren't costs at all - they are simply XP loans. So, since the system of XP expenditure is not balanced in the first place, I must hasten to point out that allowing an even distribution of XP costs through the party is more balanced - at least this way all of the characters in the game end up in the same place.

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da_chicken
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Re: Sharing the Experience Drain?

Post by da_chicken »

I still don't see your reference, Frank. All the item creation feats clearly say "To [craft this style of item] you must spend 1/25 of [the item's] total price in XP [...]" (emphasis mine).

The word "you" is pretty self descriptive and explicit about who does the XP paying. Whirlwind Attack doesn't let your cleric buddy use it. Power Attack doesn't let you give the wizard a penalty to attack. Why are Item Creation feats different, and where does it state otherwise?
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Re: Sharing the Experience Drain?

Post by Username17 »


wrote:Certain requirements must be met in order for a character to create a magic item. These include feats, spells, and miscellaneous requirements such as race or kind. The prerequisites for creation of an item are given immediately following the item's caster level.
A spell prerequisite may be provided by a character who has prepared the spell (or who knows the spell, in the case of a sorcerer or bard), or through the use of spell completion or spell trigger magic items or a spell-like ability that produces the desired spell effect. For each day that passes in the creation process, the creator must expend one spell completion item or charge from a spell trigger item if either of those items is used to supply a prerequisite.
It is possible for more than one character to cooperate in the creation of an item, with each participant providing one or more of the prerequisites. In some cases, it may even be necessary.
If two or more characters cooperate to create an item, they must agree among themselves who will be considered the creator for the purpose of determinations where the creator's level must be known. The character designated as the creator pays the XP required to make the item.



Emphasis mine. Item Creation feats are a prerequisite of item creation, and thus may be shared out to any of the participants - not necessarily the "primary creator". And by the way - the creator's level is almost never called for on anything (although caster level frequently is - but that is a class feature which as per those rules is free to be shared out to any of the participants).

There is absolutely nothing in there that would lead us to believe that it is not legal for the Elven Wizard to "assist" the fighter in making a Cloak of Elvenkind - by providing the caster level, the elven blood, and the Craft Wondrous Item feat while the "primary creator" (the party fighter) slaves away and produces this mighty item by spending the time, money, and of coure - XP.

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Re: Sharing the Experience Drain?

Post by da_chicken »

Fair enough.

(But you still haven't given a reference page, silly boy.)
Psifon
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Re: Sharing the Experience Drain?

Post by Psifon »

Page 215 DMG, Second column top of page, under "Prerequisites:"
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Re: Sharing the Experience Drain?

Post by Psifon »

FrankTrollman at [unixtime wrote:1071712613[/unixtime]]

There is absolutely nothing in there that would lead us to believe that it is not legal for the Elven Wizard to "assist" the fighter in making a Cloak of Elvenkind - by providing the caster level, the elven blood, and the Craft Wondrous Item feat while the "primary creator" (the party fighter) slaves away and produces this mighty item by spending the time, money, and of coure - XP.

-Username17


From what I can see this doesn't work, because the creator must be contributing SOMETHING to the creation. XP is not a "requirement" it is a "cost" so if falls into a seperate category. As stated in your quote:

"It is possible for more than one character to cooperate in the creation of an item, with each participant providing one or more of the prerequisites. In some cases, it may even be necessary."

So if the fighter provided the 5 ranks of ride skill needed to make a "saddle of riding" for example, he could be considered the creator, otherwise he is not a participant in creation process.
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Re: Sharing the Experience Drain?

Post by Username17 »

True, in that case you would totally have to get an Elven Fighter in on that....

Note also that the wording is incredibly contradictory. The creator can turn to a friend to cast the spell, or even to cast the spell out of a wand - but it is the creator himself who has to actually expend the charge (even if he's not the one who can use the infernal thing).

Bad writing all around on that one.

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Re: Sharing the Experience Drain?

Post by Tae_Kwon_Dan »

I flat prefer Frank's interpretation here. Maybe it's because I had already added a house rule that did the same thing though. :biggrin:
Jack_Lurch
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Re: Sharing the Experience Drain?

Post by Jack_Lurch »

Frank, or whoever, could you possibly cite a page number, cause I just know my DM isn't going to let me get away with it unless I can prove it.

-Jack
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Re: Sharing the Experience Drain?

Post by Username17 »

As Psifon previously mentioned, it's on page 215 of the 3.5 DMG.

It's also on page 479 of the combined SRD.

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Jack_Lurch
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Re: Sharing the Experience Drain?

Post by Jack_Lurch »

Frank wrote:
As Psifon previously mentioned, it's on page 215 of the 3.5 DMG.


:blush:

I have no idea how I missed that. Sorry, Psifon.

-Jack
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