Really Stupid Question: Scimitar vs. Rapier

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Essence
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Really Stupid Question: Scimitar vs. Rapier

Post by Essence »

This has bothered me for years, but I never thought to post about it anywhere. Can someone explain to me why Rapiers are finessible, but Scimitars are not? Not flavor-wise, but why, mechanically and/or balance-wise, the difference between Slashing and Piercing is enough to make the difference between finessable and not?


Thanks!

Essence
Joy_Division
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Re: Really Stupid Question: Scimitar vs. Rapier

Post by Joy_Division »

Ok good I'm not the only one bothered by this.
As is there's no good reason to choose a scimitar over a rapier unless you happen to be a druid.

The problem I've found is that if you try to improve the scimitar then the longsword looks worse in comparision. At least if all thing are considered equal WOTC style. I'm a little too lazy to see how the rapier/scimitar and longsword stack up statistically.
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Josh_Kablack
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Re: Really Stupid Question: Scimitar vs. Rapier

Post by Josh_Kablack »

It's so stupid you had to ask it twice? :wtf:

Well, piercing is ever-so-slightly worse than slashing as damage types go (no damage against 3.0 alpha skellingtons (2000 survival kit in 1st printing PHB), keen/keen edge errata issues, no special ability type unquie to piercing (such as vorpal or disruption))

And Finesseable is, in the grand scheme of things, a very small special ability to give a weapon.

At least, that's the best reasoning I can come up with for it.
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Username17
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Re: Really Stupid Question: Scimitar vs. Rapier

Post by Username17 »

Yeah, Josh nailed it in one.

Bludgeoning is, al things considered, the best damage type. Not enough to give a damn about most of the time, but it matters.

Piercing is, on the other hand, worse than the other damage types. Again, not enough for most people to care, but it is true.

For example: Piercing Weapons can't be used to sunder weapons - slashing weapons can. The Scimitar can cut through an enemy axe haft, and the Rapier cannot. The Scimitar does full damage to 3.5 Zombies. The Scimitar can have Vorpal placed on it (which is good in 3.0 rules - craptastical in 3.5 though).

x4 weapons carry an advantage over 18-20 weapons in that they do the same average damage in melee and do massively more damage when used to coup de grace. So the Pick I put about even with the Scimitar. The Rapier is just held out to remind finesse fighters that they suck - Finesse Fighters basically have to use it and it is the worst high crit weapon.

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Essence
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Re: Really Stupid Question: Scimitar vs. Rapier

Post by Essence »

Wow...I had forgotten all about the fact that piercing weapons don't Sunder as well as others. You can tell my players don't break things very often. :wink:

While I'm talking about damage types: If you're creating new weapons, how do you value the damage type "piercing and bludgeoning" vs. "piercing" or "blugeoning" individually?


Thanks for the breakdown, gentlemen.


Essence

P.S.: It's strange, I've never double-posted at the beginning of a thread before...and then I didn't have the authority to delete it myself. :( Bizarre.
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Re: Really Stupid Question: Scimitar vs. Rapier

Post by fbmf »


P.S.: It's strange, I've never double-posted at the beginning of a thread before...and then I didn't have the authority to delete it myself. Bizarre.


It's what I'm here for, Essence. No problem.

Game On,
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Re: Really Stupid Question: Scimitar vs. Rapier

Post by Username17 »

In general, I value "Piercing" at about a minus 5% of an ability or damage point. I value "Bludgeoning" at about a plus 5% of an ability or damage point. I figure Piercing and Bludgeoning is worth maybe a plus 7& of an ability, and Piercing and Slashing is probably worth about a plus 5% of an ability.

Or something like that. All that stuff about damage types is normally worth about the same as those advantages and disadvantages like weapon weight, weapon cost, the drawback of being a hafted weapon, etc. In short - it's not usually worth worrying yourself over.

That's a rough approximation. I figure it's OK to hand out double damage types to simple weapons like the Morning Star - because they still suck. I am slightly annoyed that the best martial weapon in the basic rules is the Scythe - by a noticable margin. Oh well.

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Re: Really Stupid Question: Scimitar vs. Rapier

Post by Joy_Division »

Well I'm glad I was wrong in this case. I can wield scimitars with confidence again.
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Re: Really Stupid Question: Scimitar vs. Rapier

Post by Machine_Kiss »

Speaking of finessable and bludgeoning weapons, the best weapon in the game is both.

The Chain.

Not the Spiked Chain, the *Chain*. Located in the OA and Savage Species book. Has all the characteristics of the Spiked Chain plus more (although slightly lesser damage - 1d6, not 2d4 damage). It can be fought THF style with 10' Reach or TWF style without penalties. It's a blunt weapon and has the Disarm & Trip stats of the Spiked Chain. Yes, it's Weapon Finessable.

Because of its unique weird TWF/THF characteristics, it also can do some interesting things with the new special abilities granted by the Exotic Weapon Master in the new CW book.

And the best part is, you can wear it around your waist as a fashionable and disguisable belt in cases where discretion is an issue. Can't same the same about the "ouchy" Spiked Chain... :roundnround:
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