[5E] Warlock Patron: The Pied Jester

[Whatever Jr.]

And he commanded them to make all sit down by companies upon the green grass. 40 And they sat down in ranks, by hundreds, and by fifties. 41 And when he had taken the pies, he looked up to heaven, and blessed, and brake the pies, and gave them to his disciples to set before them; and the pies divided he among them all. 42 And they did all eat, and were filled. 43 And they took up twelve baskets full of the pies. 44 And they that did eat of the pies were about five thousand men.

Oh, and also Goober the Clown (who had an abortion when she was 23)

[The Adventurer's Almanac]

I have no idea who that it is. Are they a Jojo?

The only Jokers I know are from Persona (and I wouldn't be able to recognize them, I just know there's a Persona character named Joker) and the DC Joker, and fuck him. He's barely a clown beyond the facepaint.

edit: oh, it ...well, it will probably make this whole thing even sillier, but might explain things, if I point out- for a very long time, I hated clowns. I wasn't one of those people who are afraid of clowns, no, I hated them. I blame the depression. I hated the incarnation of joy and happiness. Therefore, I don't have a particular well of clown-themed characters to draw on, because while they did pop up in things I watched, because I hated clowns, they didn't, like, stick in my mind.

I'm still not... like, into clowns, I kind of have no particular feelings about them one way or the other. But I am fascinated by the concept you see in some fiction of clowns as a distinct sapient species. And I'm starting to kind of like the idea of "clown themed magical being." So, yeah, my inspiration is a trope, more or less, rather than any particular characters.

Oh, so you're the jester here.
You've played quite the elaborate prank on us, stringing us along on this subclass concept!

[merxa]

If you want to get excessively granular, I am drawing on the magic clown trope.

Thanks, this was helpful for me to understand what you want to do. Apparently tvtropes has a whole Magical Clown section, and I'm actually familiar with a number of their examples (and apparently ronald mcdonald is one of them). It is still something of a grab bag of characters and abilities. Maybe the most common element is If not explicitly evil, magical clowns often come off as weird and unsettling? And usually have bright, whimsical effects even if they are deadly or dangerous.

And I clarified that the pies are real pies and basically handwaved nutrition because an entire pie probably has as many calories as a typical ration, if not more.

Why not make the cantrip an illusion made of shadow, so it can have taste but not nourishment? If you think the spell isn't powerful enough, then maybe take the rider from Art of Pies and Japes, so hitting someone with it gives them disadvantage on perception checks and everyone has advantage until the beginning of their turn. That makes it better then true strike (a terrible spell), and could actually see some play.

It's a fix to the one thing people whose input I'm interested in have raised as a problem with the previous way the ability worked, damage tracking. Also, Faerie Fire gives attackers advantage on attacks against the targets for up to a minute. As opposed to until the target's next turn here. Yes, yes, cantrips are at will. True Strike gives you advantage on your next attack, and a sorcerer can quicken it. I don't feel this is particularly broken. Sure, the warlock and rogue can team up so that the rogue can always sneak attack their chosen target. Or the rogue could just team up with the barbarian to just stand on the other side of the target.

Look, I know that 5e's philosophy is "everything should be tiny bullshit that no one in a real game would ever give a fuck about," but... well, the warlock already tells that philosophy to fuck off.

Faerie Fire hits a 2x2 box, but comes with a save, requires concentration and is a level 1 spell. True Strike is only your next attack (and on your next turn), and only one attack role, and sadly isn't a bonus action (which might of made it see play if you could use it the same round as an attack), as it is it never sees play, and spending precious metamagic points to make it slightly viable is a waste of metamagic points. Vicious Mockery grants disadvantage on the next attack roll (singular). The Vengeance Paladin has Vow of Enmity (3rd level), granting only the paladin advantage for 1 minute as a bonus action, costs a channel divinity. Guiding Bolt is level 1, deals damage on hit, but comes with 'advantage on next attack roll' to anyone. Granting advantage on next roll is a rider that is surprisingly easy to miss, especially as several other creatures / PCs turns could go by before it becomes relevant.

Granting a cantrip that comes with multiple attack rolls advantage to everyone on hit with no save until the creatures turn is incredible, Faerie Fire is the closest to this in power, and I'd say your write up is better for granting advantage than faerie fire, especially at higher levels. Instead of finding ways to make the best cantrip in the game even better, I think you should stick with what you already did, which is make vicious mockery better so the clown warlock will want to use that more often instead of spamming eldritch blast.

Well, on the specific topic of LTH, no, you've questioned it on the basis of flavor, and the closest you've come to a mechanical argument against it is that it's not very fun. I would counter that with "Going into your tiny hut, casting mirror image and mislead, and then exiting with your four duplicates while you're invisible" sounds like a hell of a lot of fun.

I think LTH is a little off theme, even now I think it is still off theme. The only clown in tvtropes (that I am familiar with) that would fit is Ronald McDonald, and even that's a bit of a stretch. But I guess if you're feeding everyone pies and milkshakes or whatever, may as well feed them burgers too and let them sleep inside the golden arches like the vagabonds they are. Stinking cloud seems like an easy win to me, everyone likes fart jokes right?

Anyway LTH is very minor, currently my biggest issues are with empowering eldritch blast. I more or less like the reaction to gain resistance to one attack, it seems good and balanced. I would actually roll your 10th level power into slapstick, let it come online at level 10 or whatever, and give the class something new at level 10. Maybe some reality warping power -- hall of mirrors / welcome to the funhouse / Magical Circus -- or heroes feast if you want to play up the Ronald McDonald angle more. Or leave some sort of reality warping to the level 14th power, and level 10 could be... Conjure Pink Elephants? Mass Suggestion? Clown Car?

On the topic of renaming the patron-
I can, actually, see some reason to not using "Pied Jester." I must admit, your points do influence that, to some extent. But honestly, the name was always a pretty generic one that I had not specifically planned on keeping. I think it's a good generic name, probably because my main touchstone for "magic clown with otherworldly power" is Piedmon, and I like wordplay and it has some of that in the use of Jester, because I don't mean court jester, but "one who jests." ...which is technically, I believe, the origin of the term "court jester." (ok, I just looked it up, and it does, but... not in the way we currently understand either term). But I do begin to wonder if there is a better generic name (because, imo, warlock patron choices should be generic, so that people can fill in their own specific figure). I don't think I want to go with The Ringleader, or something to that effect, because the subclass is not that generally circus themed. It's generally inspired by clowns of all forms, but has nothing to reflect the wide variety of non-clown circus performers, and I don't want to go back and make it do so. But I am considering a different name now.

I appreciate the pun and it is a good generic name for the patron, but I still think you want to name the subclass itself after what the PC will be, so 'magical clown' is as good as anything else. Magic Circus? Carnival? (carnival might have to many other associations).

[deaddmwalking]

Prak,

Everyone hates clowns. They always have.

[AwkwardMap]

(note, yes, it seems the digimon is named Piemon in Japan, probably because a hard "d" sound before an "m", with no vowel is just... not going to happen in Japanese. In English, the character is named Piedmon.)

Totally off-topic here, but you got me to connect two things I had never thought about before. In the Japanese language I've always heard clowns called ピエロ or piero, which seems to come from an actual character called Pierrot. Huh, weird, wonder how that happened. So anyway, that's why he's called ピエモン or pie-mon in Japanese. They just chopped the first half of piero off and attached mon.

As for the English name, man who knows. I guess because lol pies? Oh and after googling, looks like this is documented on some Digimon website, of course.

[Prak]

Er.... ok, thinking about how vowels get pronounced in Japanese, you might be right on that count (because pied would be transliterated to paidu, or similar, in Japanese, so if piemon is a reference to pied, his Japanese name would be paidumon or something like that). But... "pied" refers to multicolor. It's the same as "piebald." A cow might be referred to as pied. That's why his english name is piedmon, I think. But it does work as a reference to pies, as well. That said... I'm pretty sure piedmon is how I learned the word pied as a young teen.

[Prak]

RE: Art of Pies and Japes

So, what do people think of this version?

At 1st level, you gain proficiency in Acrobatics and Performance, and learn the Vicious Mockery and Conjure Pie and Seltzer (see Pied Jester Spells) cantrips, which counts as a warlock cantrip, but does not count against your number of cantrips known. You may use the invocations Agonizing Blast, Grasp of Hadar, Lance of Lethargy and Repelling Blast to augment your Vicious Mockery cantrip as if it were Eldritch Blast (treating a failed save by the target as hitting your target for the latter three).
Additionally, as a warlock of the Pied Jester, your warlock spells generally take the form of flung pies, sprayed seltzer water, and other such clown artforms, and leave a clinging residue to your targets. This clinging residue obscures their vision and dampens their pride. You may take a bonus action when using a Warlock spell. When you do, the target of your warlock spell must make a Dexterity save against your Spell save DC. If they fail they are Blinded until the end of their next turn, when they may automatically wipe the clinging residue from them. Regardless of whether they succeed at this save, they also take an amount of psychic damage at the beginning of their turn equal to half your proficiency bonus in d6s. You may use this ability a number of time equal to your proficiency bonus before needing a long rest to restore your uses.

In case I've screwed up the wording and it's not clear what I'm intending, basically-
When you use a warlock spell, you can take a bonus action to manifest a spectral pie as part of it. If you do, your target must Dex save, and if they fail, they are blinded until their next turn. Whether they fail or succeed, at the start of their next turn, they take (1/2 your prof. bonus)d6 damage, and at the end, they can (and are assumed to) automatically wipe the spectral filling from their face, ending the blinding effect. You can do this (prof. bonus)/long rest.

[JonSetanta]

Unlimited Pie Works.

[The Adventurer's Almanac]

It's... fine, but it's so BORING! Oooh, a blind and some extra damage, wow. Very tricky! Quite amusing!
Here, let me help you out. This ought to inspire a lot more creativity.

An Opening Jest
At 1st level, you gain proficiency in Acrobatics and Deception, and learn the Prestidigitation, Vicious Mockery and Magic Putty cantrips, which do not count against your number of cantrips known. Prestidigitation may be cast as a Free Action once per round.

Malicious Misdirection
At 6th level, as a Free Action you may choose for any individual strands of Magic Putty to be visible or invisible. Creatures trying to spot invisible Magic Putty must succeed on a Perception skill check (with disadvantage) equal to your spell save DC. If they fail this check when you initially cast invisible Magic Putty, they do not know you cast anything. You automatically succeed on Dexterity checks to avoid taking damage when being flung by Magic Putty.

Gummy Putty
At 10th level, when an enemy you can see hits you in melee, you may use your reaction to halve the damage and use Magic Putty on your attacker. Additionally, when an enemy you can see casts an Evocation spell that targets only you or crosses through space that your Magic Putty is occupying, you may use your reaction to make a ranged spell attack vs the enemy caster's spell save DC to bounce their spell back at them. If you succeed, the spell is cast on the enemy caster instead.
You may use this ability a number of times equal to your Proficiency Bonus, at which point you must take a long rest before you can use it again.

Can't Kill the Clown
At 14th level, your Magic Putty gains 2 new effects:
- This cantrip can be used to replicate the Revivify spell, but replacing Revivify's Components with Magic Putty's. Its Duration becomes 1 minute. This effect may be used a number of times per day equal to your Proficiency Bonus.
- Once per day, this cantrip can be used to replicate the Regenerate spell, but replacing Regenerate's Casting Time & Components with Magic Putty's.

Magic Putty

Transmutation Cantrip
Casting Time: Action
Range: 120 feet
Components: S
Duration: Instantaneous

You form a mysterious and versatile putty in your hands, capable of tricking all but the most insightful enemies. Maybe it really is like putty, but it could be anything from webs to glue to string. It glows and is highly visible. Make a ranged spell attack against the target. On a hit, you may apply one of the following effects. You may end these effects as a Free Action at any time. You cannot have more than twice your Proficiency Bonus in Magic Putty strands active at once.
- You glue your target's eyes or feet, and it becomes Blinded or Restrained until it succeeds on an Strength saving throw, made at the start of its turn. If you target your feet with this, you are Grappled instead of Restrained.
- You tether your target to you; the tether has a maximum range of 120 feet, but you may choose to make this range as small as 5 feet. They cannot move away from you, nor can you move away from them. A creature dragging an object follows the normal carrying capacity and encumbrance rules. Creatures two or more sizes smaller than the creature they are tethered to cannot drag their partner, and cannot resist when dragged. Otherwise, to drag an unwilling creature, each makes a contested Strength check; if the creature attempting to move wins, it may move at half speed. The tether may be broken as an action with a Strength check equal to your spell save DC.
As a Bonus action while you are tethered, you may move one tether to any space or object within 120 feet of you and your target, resetting its maximum range to the new length; or automatically constrict one tether, setting its maximum range to 0 feet and forcing the targets to succeed on Strength saving throws and break the tether or be flung into each other (extremely stable objects like stone pillars or the ground automatically pass this check) OR succeed on Dexterity saving throws to be flung but take no damage You already use collision rules, right? Use those to determine damage. 1d4 to 2d8 damage is probably balanced, I dunno. This is probably busted as shit if you're even mildly creative.

[RobbyPants]

I think getting auto advantage on attacks against anyone you Eldritch Blast with Art of Pies and Japes is a bit much. Warlocks taking Eldritch Blast and Agonizing Blast is pretty much the gold standard for a 5E warlock, and granting advantage seems like a bit much. Since you're already doling out Vicious Mockery for free, I'd say just let the player choose if they want to deal damage or debuff. I feel like they're already getting a good amount at level 1 for this patron.

Does it take an action to wash the pie off on Conjure Pie and Seltzer?

Slapstick has a typo where you say "have" the damage instead of "halve".

That being said, I like the flavor of this. I was just thinking about the Tome jester last week and wondering how I'd bring it in to 5E as a subclass. I was thinking rogue and hadn't even considered warlock.

[Prak]

I think getting auto advantage on attacks against anyone you Eldritch Blast with Art of Pies and Japes is a bit much. Warlocks taking Eldritch Blast and Agonizing Blast is pretty much the gold standard for a 5E warlock, and granting advantage seems like a bit much. Since you're already doling out Vicious Mockery for free, I'd say just let the player choose if they want to deal damage or debuff. I feel like they're already getting a good amount at level 1 for this patron.

Keep in mind, the latest version requires a bonus action (and my understanding is that you can only take one bonus action per turn, so you're specifically not using your bonus for something else?) to get the bonus damage and blinding effect, blinding allows a save, and you can only do it proficiency times per long rest.

Does it take an action to wash the pie off on Conjure Pie and Seltzer?

That is the intent, I should codify that.

Slapstick has a typo where you say "have" the damage instead of "halve".

Thank you

That being said, I like the flavor of this. I was just thinking about the Tome jester last week and wondering how I'd bring it in to 5E as a subclass. I was thinking rogue and hadn't even considered warlock.

One of my friends has raised the idea of clown/circus-themed subclasses for each class, and I am considering that, even if only because comments on this have made me think about and kind of want to do a non-magical clown for Rogue, and the COAI code of ethics for clowning would be a pretty funny thing to riff on for a Paladin oath.

[The Adventurer's Almanac]

One of my friends has raised the idea of clown/circus-themed subclasses for each class, and I am considering that, even if only because comments on this have made me think about and kind of want to do a non-magical clown for Rogue, and the COAI code of ethics for clowning would be a pretty funny thing to riff on for a Paladin oath.

Do a clown Bard!

[Prak]

College of Clowns might be a good place for your suggested take

[The Adventurer's Almanac]

I do not understand that reference.

[Prak]

Bard subclasses are referred to as colleges.

Clown college is a thing.

[The Adventurer's Almanac]

Oh, you mean Clowns Without Borders?

[Zaranthan]

Habitat for Clowns?

[JonSetanta]

Clown college is a thing.

Somehow I've known this tidbit since I met a clown magician that showed me the "behind the trick" after his show when I said I wanted to do what he did.
He did mention a Clown College but I always thought he was joking...

[Prak]

I'm working on a new thing and this-

Advantage as a freerider is likely worse than the original 50% DOT, especially for eldritch blast because after the first ray hits, your second ray will have advantage. and that advantage lasts until their next turn, which will grant several allies advantage. Are you familiar with the optimization guides? Elven Accuracy is rated very highly for feat selection, the problem with it is that getting a consistent source of advantage can be difficult, but if you bake it right into the spell then there's no problem is there? You went from one mistake to possibly a worse mistake.

-came to mind.

So I checked a couple things, and...

That's called "playing an half elf warlock that knows the spell Darkness and has the invocation Devil's Sight." Because you can go into combat, drop a Darkness on yourself, and then fire agonizing eldritch blasts at enemies with advantage with impunity from there. Or you can use Improved Pact Weapon once you get your pact binding, and spend every level up assessing whether your pact weapon or eldritch blast is the better option for the next level.

"But you have limited spell slots!"

Ok, so get a ring of spell storing, a Rod of the Pact Keeper, and then a bunch of scrolls of Darkness. At 4th level, you have two spell slots. The ring stores an additional two castings of Darkness, the rod refreshes a slot, and darkness lasts 10 minutes. You can drop darkness five times a day without pulling out a scroll, which should, generally, be more than enough for most adventuring days. Oh, and when the team pops a squat for a short rest, you just got your slots back.

[The Adventurer's Almanac]

Ok, so get a ring of spell storing, a Rod of the Pact Keeper, and then a bunch of scrolls of Darkness.

Ah, yes. Those items that come with the Warlock class chassis. Of course.

[Prak]

I did say "get." It's also worth noting that warlocks refresh spell slots on a short rest, so you could do two fights, then rest for an hour, repeat, if your GM is being stingy with the items. Rings of spell storing are pretty typical as treasure, and it's reasonable to ask your gm "hey, can we find this item that's literally made for warlocks?" And it should be pretty possible to commission scrolls of Darkness so long as your GM is mildly rational and not trying to run some gritty low magic bullshit.

[The Adventurer's Almanac]

Uh huh, uh huh. I still find it odd that you're comparing your generically useful 1st level class feature to... what is at minimum a 2nd level build with potential magic items? I have to actually make choices in your scenario. I have to pick an invocation, and a spell. Art of Pies and Japes literally just works all the time. The Pied Jester can also pick up Darkness and Devil's Sight, and a ring of spell storing, and a Rod of the Pact Keeper. If you're bringing magic items into your subclass creation discussion, you have fucked up.
Very bizarre. Wouldn't it make more sense to compare Art of Pies and Japes to other 1st level Warlock features?

[deaddmwalking]

In practical terms, you must spend an action casting darkness to reliably use it as part of your combat feature. There is no requirement that enemies engage you if a blob of darkness is approaching; nor is there a requirement that they remain within the area.

You done fucked up. It's okay, that's why you discuss these things with other people.

[merxa]

using darkness with devil's sight is considered an optimization -- and as people have mentioned it requires an action to cast a level 2 spell slot, the spell requires concentration, and the advantage generally will only impact the warlock as being able to see in magical darkness is a power that's otherwise difficult to get for other PCs, however for team monster it is a bit easier to overcome magical darkness as a number of monsters have various special senses. Darkness can at times be a net negative depending on the environment and monsters involved (generally other PCs can't target the warlock for beneficial effects, and/or may not be able to target the monster inside the darkness). If a PC uses darkness when the monster can see through it, it can become a significant disadvantage.

In comparison advantage is coming from a cantrip that deals damage, if it hits it works, and it works for everyone until the monster goes. As a note on 5e initiative, this can be a dramatic difference depending on how initiative is handled (and initiative has rather large table variations). In strict 5e, I don't believe you can alter your initiative order, so going right before the monster is of limited benefit, but going after the monster in question is of enormous benefit. Of course, the way the ability is written, you can ready your action to trigger on whoever goes after the monster in question. These sort of issues causes me immersion problems as the ability impact has a rather dramatic change depending on conditions and states that are supposed to be somewhat abstract but become very mechanically prominent.