The Gaming Den

If Biden wins, will he (not SHOULD he, WILL he) pardon Trump in any or all of the following categories?

1. Let us presume the DOJ pursues the (non-collusion) crimes evident in the Mueller report.

2. Let us assume civil suits that come to fruition over the next year(s).

3. Lastly, what about any tax evasion related crimes.

I don't see any good coming from discussing the charges themselves, but if Biden wins the election, charges are pursued, and conviction occurs or appears likely, will Biden pardon Trump in any or all of the above situations and why or why not?

Game On,
fbmf

I think Biden won't pardon anything, but I also think zero DOJ officials will pursue the previous president without a specific order from the AG, who in turn will not give that order without Biden okaying it, and that Biden will never encourage the AG and will specifically discourage the AG, and the AG will therefore never order a DOJ official.

So no pardon, but the usual implicit pardon for all presidential crimes like Obama gave Bush.

Biden doesn't want to be responsible for anything that happens whatever it ends up being.

Do you foresee civil suits (defamation suits from Zervos and Carroll, unpaid employees, etc.) going anywhere?

Now that I think about it, can the president pardon civil suit convictions (or whatever they're called) as opposed to just criminal issues?

Game On,
fbmf

fbmf wrote:Do you foresee civil suits (defamation suits from Zervos and Carroll, unpaid employees, etc.) going anywhere?

Now that I think about it, can the president pardon civil suit convictions (or whatever they're called) as opposed to just criminal issues?

Game On,
fbmf

The president's pardon is a purely criminal matter and can't really effect civil suits, however, for the entire time he was president doing even vaguely presidential things anything he did that was a civil violation would have to be resolved by suing the government.

In so far as someone wants to pursue him for not paying them for services before he was president or his business stuff, they would probably be in the same position as normal which is "fucked for the normal boring reason that rich people can get away with anything by hiring good lawyers and wasting your time until you settle for a paltry amount" as opposed to the presidential reason.

How about Trump pardons himself before Biden has the opportunity?

I find it hard to believe anyone would even entertain the idea that Trump would be prosecuted for all the usual presidential crimes that are never prosecuted.

I find it hard to believe anyone would entertain the idea that the USA would prosecute any ex-president for ANYTHING for fear of setting a precedent of ever holding them accountable for the more serious crimes they already regularly ignore.

I mean what world do you live in where an ex US president gets held accountable for anything?

The only way Trump goes down if it's for something so stupid and separate from politics it may as well be serving bad shrimp at his golf resort.

Meanwhile. "What does Trump do after politics?" can be answered by "he will still be there forever he won't ever shut up or go away, he just might stop pretending to be president". And also probably a TV show, the original plan was probably to lose the 2016 race just to use the fame boost to launch into a better TV contract and I think he might try to revert to that, what else can he do? What else would he want to do?

After politics? Trump's spent four years surrounded by the finest yes-men in the USA. Falling back to something like his earlier plans and mostly dropping out of politics may be emotionally difficult for him. I expect him to push hard for himself or one of his family to contest the presidency in 2024 but by then his image should be even more damaged and his kids/in-laws never had the talent.

A pardon couldn't solve Trumps tax & business problems, pardons for other things wouldn't help him that much IMO.

PhoneLobster wrote:I find it hard to believe anyone would even entertain the idea that Trump would be prosecuted for all the usual presidential crimes that are never prosecuted.

I find it hard to believe anyone would entertain the idea that the USA would prosecute any ex-president for ANYTHING for fear of setting a precedent of ever holding them accountable for the more serious crimes they already regularly ignore.

I mean what world do you live in where an ex US president gets held accountable for anything?

The only way Trump goes down if it's for something so stupid and separate from politics it may as well be serving bad shrimp at his golf resort.

Meanwhile. "What does Trump do after politics?" can be answered by "he will still be there forever he won't ever shut up or go away, he just might stop pretending to be president". And also probably a TV show, the original plan was probably to lose the 2016 race just to use the fame boost to launch into a better TV contract and I think he might try to revert to that, what else can he do? What else would he want to do?

Very much agree with all of that.

I doubt there will be any serious prosecutions to pardon. I also suspect there is likely to be a blanket pardon before Biden can take office.

*****

But if I had my way, I would actually encourage the adults in government to forgo any prosecution of Donald Trump Senior, but to instead open Ken Starr / Benghazi scale investigations of every single other person in the Trump White house, from Jared Kushner, through Kellyanne Conway and Stephen Miller, all the way down to the janitor using the electrostatic sprayer and the chef putting the extra scoop on Donald's ice cream.

We cannot deter future Narcissists from running for office, but we can make a pretty clear example of the consequences of enabling them to this extent. And just to drive this point home, my fantasy judicial escapade here involves calling Donald Trump up as a witness in many of these hearings, because it would be so easy to get him to testify against any of his own supporters.

Considering that Trump is not going to go quietly, I think the chance of a pardon is low. I think a lot of the "the past is the past" of presidential hand-offs relies on the gentleman's agreement that you don't be a bitch about it and fade off into the night and leave politics, and in return we don't prosecute you.

Which Trump won't do. He will run in 2024 if he is not in jail, and he'll start campaigning before he even leaves office.

The violations of the law are also very open here. This isn't a nebulous legal theory like collusion, but actual easy things to prosecute and explain to people like financial fraud. "hey, Trump lied when he applied for these loans, that's why he's in jail. Lying on a loan application is fraud."

Let's also not forget that it would take an actual pardon from Biden, not just general forgiveness. Just because the DOJ is not pressing charges does not mean that all the other States don't have active cases against him that carry real jail time.

Biden should stand by his promise to beat the shit out of those who speak uncouthly
https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/biden-b ... d=53897309

That's all I'm saying about politics for this year, thank you

I think it's important to distinguish between federal and state crimes - a presidential pardon only applies to Federal Crimes. That means Trump can pardon himself for tax fraud involving the IRS, but he could still go to jail for defrauding the State of New York.

Biden is explicitly counselling people not to investigate Trump when he is president, in case you were wondering how that is going to go.

Specifically because he doesn't want investigations to divide the country and he wants to focus on fixing problems not prosecuting them.

In related news, the DOJ will still definitely aggressively prosecute black people for drug offenses.

I don't think anyone in power wants to set precedent for actually holding the president accountable for things they do.

The Adventurer's Almanac wrote:I don't think anyone in power wants to set precedent for actually holding the president accountable for things they do.

I don't think Democratic presidents who do war crimes or deliberately target black americans for theft by the state or who deliberately sabotage policies that might benefit poor people actually believe they are doing anything bad and would be held accountable for anything.

I think this is regular democratic fecklessness like when Obama said bankers have to be allowed to do crimes and get away with it, or right now when democrats agree that Lindsay Graham deliberately interfering in elections in an effort to subvert democracy should be punished with fewer hugs, or when Pelosi said they would use every arrow in the quiver to prevent Amy Coney Barret's confirmation, and then democrats drafted an internal list of ways to delay her confirmation and then used literally none of them including the ones that were specifically in the ambit of the House.

That's... almost even more distasteful than just being cynical about it. I prefer to think it's maliciousness rather than this level of incompetence.