Where do we go from here?

[Sunwitch]

I never expected to describe Frank Trollman as "pathetic," but here we are. Quitting the forum "forever," changing your handle, and slinking back months later to issue a parting shot loaded with self-serving faux martyrdom - as though you haven't been reading every word since you "left" - is the kind of internet drama I stirred up in middle school. No other word for it. Pathetic.

It's really full-on "disappointed but not surprised" kind of stuff.

[Zinegata]

Zinegata is Frank Trollman!

"That's why most inevitably resort to accusing newcomers of being an alt-account of silva or whomever. They think it proves their chops of "defending" the Den against stupidity. In reality, it shows that they are garbage people who waste their lives attacking Internet strangers just to cover up how dumb they really are; and that all this "brutal honesty" talk is just an excuse to be bullies."

Gotta love it when people raise their hands and prove my point.

[Kaelik]

Kaelik wanted more sweeping change... but couldn't articulate how to go about it and more importantly neither can you.

Not so! I am totally capable of articulating Kaelik's 'plan'. It's just that doing so is against the forum rules regarding advocating for the death of real world people. Which should tell people a lot about the level of political discourse on this forum and how much of it is people actually agitating for change vs taking the chance to be Internet Tough Guys peacocking their performative anger at one another.

You divined from a post where I said "Doing this wouldn't help" that actually I have a plan for improving the world that involves doing the thing I said wouldn't help.

You are very smart.

[GnomeWorks]

Not so! I am totally capable of articulating Kaelik's 'plan'. It's just that doing so is against the forum rules regarding advocating for the death of real world people.

You divined from a post where I said "Doing this wouldn't help" that actually I have a plan for improving the world that involves doing the thing I said wouldn't help.

You are very smart.

Ohh, Kaelik. Kaelik. You've fucked up now, you piece of shit.

Because guess who I had to call out for doing exactly fucking that to fbmf, some time ago?

That's right. It was you, you stupid, stupid motherfucker.

[Kaelik]

Not so! I am totally capable of articulating Kaelik's 'plan'. It's just that doing so is against the forum rules regarding advocating for the death of real world people.

You divined from a post where I said "Doing this wouldn't help" that actually I have a plan for improving the world that involves doing the thing I said wouldn't help.

You are very smart.

Ohh, Kaelik. Kaelik. You've fucked up now, you piece of shit.

Because guess who I had to call out for doing exactly fucking that to fbmf, some time ago?

That's right. It was you, you stupid, stupid motherfucker.

So you are saying that I'm correct right now?

[GnomeWorks]

So you are saying that I'm correct right now?

I'm saying that you're a lying, dishonest jackass, and I have no interest in further discussion with you.

Welcome to my ignore list.

Bye.

[Kaelik]

So you are saying that I'm correct right now?

I'm saying that you're a lying, dishonest jackass, and I have no interest in further discussion with you.

Welcome to my ignore list.

Bye.

Seems like you would agree that Grek was wrong if your previous complaint was correct. I obviously can't speak to your previous complaint, because I have no idea what it was. I doubt the substance would provide any relevance to the current issue, but you would know better than I, since I don't know what it was.

[The Adventurer's Almanac]

Zinegata is Frank Trollman!

Learn what words mean before you go off on future tangents, you fucking retard. How can you post what you do and not feel embarrassed later? Seriously, go google the word 'stan' (which I fucking hate). I'll wait.

[saithorthepyro]

Zinegata is Frank Trollman!

Learn what words mean before you go off on future tangents, you fucking retard. How can you post what you do and not feel embarrassed later? Seriously, go google the word 'stan' (which I fucking hate). I'll wait.

What the fuck? You had a point here TAA, maybe not ruin it with ableist insults from a decade ago.

[fbmf]

So you are saying that I'm correct right now?

I'm saying that you're a lying, dishonest jackass, and I have no interest in further discussion with you.

Welcome to my ignore list.

Bye.

Seems like you would agree that Grek was wrong if your previous complaint was correct. I obviously can't speak to your previous complaint, because I have no idea what it was. I doubt the substance would provide any relevance to the current issue, but you would know better than I, since I don't know what it was.

Since he brought it up, he reported you for advocating the assassination of SCOTUS Justices, which I edited out of existence because it violates one of the few ironclad rules of this forum.

It was a thing that happened. Those were words that you wrote.


Game On,
fbmf

[Kaelik]

I'm saying that you're a lying, dishonest jackass, and I have no interest in further discussion with you.

Welcome to my ignore list.

Bye.

Seems like you would agree that Grek was wrong if your previous complaint was correct. I obviously can't speak to your previous complaint, because I have no idea what it was. I doubt the substance would provide any relevance to the current issue, but you would know better than I, since I don't know what it was.

Since he brought it up, he reported you for advocating the assassination of SCOTUS Justices, which I edited out of existence because it violates one of the few ironclad rules of this forum.

It was a thing that happened. Those were words that you wrote.

Ah that explains it. "exactly fucking that" wasn't thing thing I was saying, it was what they believed Grek was accusing me of.

Seems silly to call that my plan since the supreme court can't pass climate change legislation. While it's possible I said something near that I doubt I advocated it as a plan for change.

[Grek]

See, I was talking about you advocating for the assassination of Biden before he could get the nomination, in order to force the DNC to pick a different nominee. I didn't even know about the SCOTUS thing until it got brought up here - it apparently got edited out before I even read it.

(Yes, I am aware that you deny that your post was advocating for Biden's death. But everybody else read it as such, including fbmf, who made a mod post specifically warning you to knock it off. But you've never actually denied believing that - just the claim that your words should be interpreted as encouraging such murders. While simultaneously engaged in an extended defense of your superior political judgement and ability to evaluate which members of the Democratic party would best serve their party and their country from the inside of a casket. While still insisting that you'd never actually advocate for the death of anyone in particular, because of course not, saying that would get you in trouble. And that anyone who reads such an intention into it is just trying to smear you.)

[Kaelik]

See, I was talking about you advocating for the assassination of Biden before he could get the nomination, in order to force the DNC to pick a different nominee. I didn't even know about the SCOTUS thing until it got brought up here - it apparently got edited out before I even read it.

(Yes, I am aware that you deny that your post was advocating for Biden's death. But everybody else read it as such, including fbmf, who made a mod post specifically warning you to knock it off. But you've never actually denied believing that - just the claim that your words should be interpreted as encouraging such murders. While simultaneously engaged in an extended defense of your superior political judgement and ability to evaluate which members of the Democratic party would best serve their party and their country from the inside of a casket. While still insisting that you'd never actually advocate for the death of anyone in particular, because of course not, saying that would get you in trouble. And that anyone who reads such an intention into it is just trying to smear you.)

I denied believing that in the very post you stupidly believe I was advocating it. One specific part of the post was me explicitly saying "I do not think this would accomplish anything."

It is very odd that you apparently, (I believe correctly) believe that assassinating people would not bring about a magical leftword swing in the democratic party, but also, you apparently believe that it is impossible that people who say they believe that are telling the truth.

[Omegonthesane]

That is technically what you said regarding Biden, but as I recall even I thought it was too close to comfort given it was very much "I can understand why someone might think of this plan but don't do it". And that was before fbmf's clarification.

The intended board position appears to be that wishing death upon someone is too horrible to contemplate, to the point that merely spelling out directly that it would not specifically be helpful crosses the line. I wouldn't take great issue if that was made explicit, since clearly it's been interpreted as allowing any wiggle room.

[Kaelik]

That is technically what you said regarding Biden, but as I recall even I thought it was too close to comfort given it was very much "I can understand why someone might think of this plan but don't do it". And that was before fbmf's clarification.

The intended board position appears to be that wishing death upon someone is too horrible to contemplate, to the point that merely spelling out directly that it would not specifically be helpful crosses the line. I wouldn't take great issue if that was made explicit, since clearly it's been interpreted as allowing any wiggle room.

fbmf can make the rules whatever he wants, and I'm not going to argue about whether he should or should not delete things he doesn't like.

But Grek is not arguing that I said something against the rules. She is arguing that my plan for progressive change is against the rules. (Well I suppose technically! now it is! Politics is against the rules! So me saying my plan is now against the rules! But you know what I mean when I say she says that.) So in so far as she makes that claim, whether I said something against the rules is irrelevant. If I say "This thing would not work" then it probably follows that it isn't my "plan" for progressive change. Why would I pick a plan I explicitly think wouldn't work and don't think people should do?

[MGuy]

I'm fairly sure kaelik and others did advocate for murder of political figures some time ago but the argument being made now isn't that. It's 'just' about whether or not Grek knows what kaelik's ideal plan is. We can't really know what someone is thinking, and in this case we'd be trying to piece together a plan we won't see, and that can't be talked about now. Whatever we might think kaelik wants done, it can't be discussed now, so I don't think there's much value in stepping threateningly close to the 'no politics' rule that's still fresh.

[Zinegata]

Zinegata is Frank Trollman!

Learn what words mean before you go off on future tangents, you fucking retard. How can you post what you do and not feel embarrassed later? Seriously, go google the word 'stan' (which I fucking hate). I'll wait.

Ah yes because I wasn't the first person to point out that Frank was the Den's original Alpha Male by Ranting.

This was totally not Kaelik and his retarded Discord Daycare again trying to pretend someone is "silva" or some other long-gone enemy again, and then stealing their ideas afterwards.

Kaelik's on borrowed time. The only reason he stays is because he is literally too retarded to be able to exist anywhere else. He'll throw you under the bus too when the island gets really small.

[Kaelik]

This was totally not Kaelik and his retarded Discord Daycare again trying to pretend someone is "silva" or some other long-gone enemy again, and then stealing their ideas afterwards.

Again, the point here is that in fact, no one was accusing you of being Frank Trollman. That's the point. You didn't understand what a word means. That's okay, you can just admit you misunderstood and move on without repeating an accusation that proves you didn't understand the point being made.

[Zinegata]

I'm fairly sure kaelik and others did advocate for murder of political figures some time ago but the argument being made now isn't that. It's 'just' about whether or not Grek knows what kaelik's ideal plan is.

I really find this to be so pathetic it's not even funny anymore.

I'm the one who originally broke the "don't advocate for murder of anyone" rule.

fbmf edited my post and then put up the warning that has stayed to this day.

The thing is, when that happened I manned up to my mistake and I apologized to fbmf. His board, his rules.

Kaelik as far as I can see can't even admit to his error. He just pretends its an "explanation".

Instead we have all of these "stans" - as TAA wants to use the term when it suits his petty agendas - white knighting so hard for Kaelik because they've wasted all of this time and energy overthrowing the old cult leader (Frank), only to realize that all they've put in his place is a sad copycat.

Really, call me crazy all you want. It's actually been an education to be here, because it's taught me how not to live life.

[Zinegata]

Again, the point here is that in fact,

Lol, no. That's the point you want everyone to focus on so they don't realize you're just a Sheldon Cooper with no redeeming qualities.

The point is no one who isn't one of your sycophants believes your bullshit anymore.

I never believed it.

The vast majority of the lurkers turned off by your toxic personality never believed it.

All the people you chased off over the years - much like Frank - were in fact not stupid, not awful, and definitely not alt-accounts of silva.

They were all human beings. And the vast majority of them were far and away objectively better people than you.

But nope, you're not going to acknowledge any one else's point except your own. Because it goes against the convoluted fanfiction you invented in your head, and you're too self-centered to ever acknowledge anyone else.

In reality you're just claiming lordship over a largely dead forum and your only followers are ones who are too fucking dumb to realize you're just a sad Frank Trollman copy.

Thing is, every dirty tactic you used to try and get rid of Frank is gonna boomerang back to you when your time comes. Frank was hit by his own boomerang in the end. Good luck with yours.

[saithorthepyro]

Okay, actual, serious question, who has Kaelik chased off the Den? Does anyone remember a one? The only person I remember getting hit with the "You're Silva" accusation was Guts, who in fact did turn out to be Silva.

Learn what words mean before you go off on future tangents, you fucking retard. How can you post what you do and not feel embarrassed later? Seriously, go google the word 'stan' (which I fucking hate). I'll wait.

This was totally not Kaelik and his retarded Discord Daycare again trying to pretend someone is "silva" or some other long-gone enemy again, and then stealing their ideas afterwards.

You know, we literally just had a thread with Shrapnel saying he was leaving over stuff like this, could you not for at least a week?

[Kaelik]

Okay, actual, serious question, who has Kaelik chased off the Den? Does anyone remember a one?

2010ish A then regular poster named CielingCat quit because the trying to be accepting but actually very transphobic attitudes of at least several posters including at least me and Frank Trollman. Nothing to do with accusing people of being a sock puppet which..... it's certainly possible in general that I've done that a few times, but I don't think is very common and in this case no one was even accusing Zinegata of, since we all know he's the same asshole who's been posting here for a long time.

EDIT: Oh yeah, there probably also a bunch of just regular transphobes, we used to have a fair few right wingers.

Lol, no. That's the point you want everyone to focus on so they don't realize you're just a Sheldon Cooper with no redeeming qualities.

The point is no one who isn't one of your sycophants believes your bullshit anymore.

I never believed it.

The vast majority of the lurkers turned off by your toxic personality never believed it.

All the people you chased off over the years - much like Frank - were in fact not stupid, not awful, and definitely not alt-accounts of silva.

They were all human beings. And the vast majority of them were far and away objectively better people than you.

But nope, you're not going to acknowledge any one else's point except your own. Because it goes against the convoluted fanfiction you invented in your head, and you're too self-centered to ever acknowledge anyone else.

In reality you're just claiming lordship over a largely dead forum and your only followers are ones who are too fucking dumb to realize you're just a sad Frank Trollman copy.

Thing is, every dirty tactic you used to try and get rid of Frank is gonna boomerang back to you when your time comes.

You seem to have a very delusional understanding of the forum and of what literally anyone is saying. I don't claim lordship over the forum, and in fact, I think most regular posters don't like me very much. I also think you have a very weird idea of the people I have "chased off" over the years. Being extremely generous, I contributed significantly to driving off CielingCat and Frank Trollman. And while you are welcome to make whatever arguments you want about Frank, I certainly think CielingCat was a good person which is one of the reasons I regret my actions and apologized to some people.

[Sunwitch]

Frank actually insisted that being trans was a mental delusion and long-windedly berated anyone who took him to task on that, as I recall.

[PhoneLobster]

Yeah, I'm so god damn glad I was on the record on the right side of the bigotry thread/driving off Cieling Cat and Crissa thing at the time it was happening.

[The Adventurer's Almanac]

Hey, I read that very thread last year when I binged the forums! That was a terribly amusing thread in hindsight. It's amazing how much can change in just a few years.