Review: Pokemon Tabletop United

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The Adventurer's Almanac
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Review: Pokemon Tabletop United

Post by The Adventurer's Almanac »

Hello there. Let me tell you about this game I like. It has a lot of problems that I've come to realize over the years, and ever since I started lurking here some more issues came to light.

A while back, someone did a rageview of Pokemon Tabletop Adventures, a game that I have not played. To be honest, I can't even remember if I've ever looked at the rules for those. However, with the new Pokemon games coming out, PTA is actually getting a third edition, courtesy of lone wolf "Dr. Mr. Stark". It looks fucking awful and I'm still never playing it, so we aren't talking about any of that shit.

Let's talk about Pokemon Tabletop United. It's only been brought up around here once or twice, but what's been said about it?
Koumei quoting some retard wrote:"PTU is the Pathfinder of PTA"
I haven't played PTA, but I would consider the transition more like that of early D&D to AD&D. An improvement over the primordial morass that came before, but still riddled with issues and an overreliance on adhering to the video games... well, D&D didn't have that problem.
Shrapnel wrote:I will say, as someone who is almost totally ignorant of TTRPGs, that I've found PTU easier to use than PTA, and much more accessible.
This is probably more accurate than the previous quote.
Grek wrote:They're both a fucking mess.
This one's the most accurate.
Pokemon Tabletop United

One thing out of the way first: Just because I like this game does not mean I will hesitate to shit on it. I wholeheartedly encourage you to do the same. I'll be upfront and admit that I'd like to take a bunch of the stuff from this game and refine it into a new game, like how PTU was to PTA, so I have ulterior motives with this review. I really think that a lot of the fat could be trimmed from this game, but the PTU devs have stopped working on PTU in favor of a new game - they made so many changes that it wasn't really PTU anymore. That's fine and basically what I intend to do, but the progress on the new game is fucking glacial and it goes in a different direction in some areas than I might prefer. I really want to scale up from kids going on their first adventure to your standard heroic fantasy shenanigans. The more you tear into it, the better.
I'll be taking things one chapter at a time. All I have to drink tonight is some mint creme de menthe and I only put that shit in coffee, so I'll just be getting properly blasted like this guy probably is:

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Sure, they look like cigarettes, but that little guy looks stoned out of its mind or very depressed. This guy isn't in this book.

This is a free game since nobody wants to get sued by Nintendo, so if you want to read along you can go grab yourself a copy.
That being said, this game is over four years old. There has been errata. The developers stopped working on the game, so plenty of people have been tweaking things on their own to smooth the game out. I'll be bringing these "fixes" up when it's relevant, because there is some really stupid shit in here. I may also at any point start rambling about a mechanic I think is especially workable or shitty. I haven't even READ the chapter on Pokemon Contests since I picked the game up, because those are so horrible that nobody even pretends to use them. That'll be a fun chapter. Anyway, let's get this show started.
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It's a good thing this book isn't sold in stores, because almost nobody would ever open this up if it didn't have Pokemon in the title.
Chapter 1: Introduction

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All of the art in this book is just taken from around the internet. Can't say I blame them, nobody's gonna pay an artist to make stuff for this. Fortunately there's a huge variety of fanart out there.

This is the part where you convince people to play your game, so how good of a job do they do?

Recommended number of players: 2-4. This is accurate, you do NOT want to play this game with a lot of people. My cognitive load can handle combats of up to 20 people/pokemon at a time, and 5 players eat up half that, unless you're playing a "league campaign" (I don't). The intention of the game is to handle a wide variety of Pokemon games outside of your typical "get 8 badges and become the champ" setup, and that's what it delivers on. They even recommend trying out a trainer who takes a more... active role in combat. That's pretty much the only kind of game I play. They also strive to make PTU's pokemon more balanced than the video games, and this is absolutely true... but anyone who's played Pokemon can tell you that shit is 12 sorts of fucked up and Gamefreak never had any intention of balancing shit. So really, the bar was low.
You need the usual dice and... the Pokemon PDF (all 750 pages of it). It also says it isn't necessary to play with a grid, but I've played in those games and... no thank you. There's a short blurb stating the differences between PTU and PTA: Most of the changes are the inspiration for the name of the game: Unlike in PTA, Trainers and Pokemon in PTU actually operate off the same basic chassis. Everybody has the same combat stats, the same skills, can learn moves, abilities, what the fuck ever. I could not imagine how horrific PTA must have been, but the rageview gave me a good idea.

There's also mention of some splat books: three of them. One is for making Legendary Pokemon more impressive and divine, one is for sci-fi, and the other is for fantasy. Those will have to wait for another day. Maybe.

We end this section with the most important question: What is Pokemon?
I wish Gamefreak would ask themselves that before they go cutting their roster and move list in new games... but I digress. I gave up on the video games when the 3DS came out and subsequent releases have only made me feel more secure in that decision. To be honest, I don't like Pokemon that much. I like pokemon, but I don't like Pokemon, you know? The setting seems like a great place to live, but I tried running a game in it and it was just too incoherent for me to continue. I also didn't want to make up my own setting that was just a new region in the Pokemon world. I don't care for how well-off everybody is and, to be frank, it's made for kids. Nothing that bad ever really happens in the Pokemon universe, not on screen. But I'm just rambling at this point, what does the fucking book say?
They explain what Pokemon are as if you didn't know what they are: they're monsters, they have Types, they Evolve, etc. People catch them. These people are called POKEMON TRAINERS and they battle them for sport. I like this upcoming quote:
Dogfighting Apologist wrote:This might sound horribly similar to underground dog fighting, but that couldn’t be further from the truth in Pokémon. It’s an established principle of the setting in the Pokémon universe that Pokémon almost universally enjoy battling and have evolved to be skillful fighters.
The worst part is that it's true. I don't think the games ever really explain it beyond that. That's one of the biggest problems with the franchise and by extension, PTU. I try my best to answer shit like this so it makes sense in-game, but it's hard when you're confined to the source material. They also mention that some pokemon are used as labor - Electric Types may be used to power generators, people ride pokemon around, stuff like that. I hope you can see the ethical arguments from here, because I'm not touching ethics in Pokemon. I made them fucking monsters that eat people and wreck shit so that's less of an issue. They continue to go on for a bit about the Pokemon setting, and I really don't care to repeat it. There's a League and Badges and Pokemon Centers, Battle Frontiers and evil Criminal Teams. Some people are just fucking magic. You know the drill.

And that's really it for the introduction. I've gotta say, they had me hooked early and then lost me when they started going on about the fundamental Pokemon shit. I'm here to watch a group of heroes get attacked by a pack of Poochyena in the night only for them to smack them around, throw one in a well, and roast the rest. Literally. Then eat their sweet, sweet wolf meat.
Jesus, not like that, this game doesn't have a BoEF supplement.

Next up: Character Creation.
What the fuck do you mean it's 20 pages long?! This book is 500? Oh, fuck me. Good thing a quarter of that is Abilities and Moves...
Last edited by The Adventurer's Almanac on Thu Nov 14, 2019 3:58 am, edited 2 times in total.
Koumei
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Re: Review: Pokemon Tabletop United

Post by Koumei »

The Adventurer's Almanac wrote:However, with the new Pokemon games coming out, PTA is actually getting a third edition, courtesy of lone wolf "Dr. Mr. Stark". It looks fucking awful and I'm still never playing it, so we aren't talking about any of that shit.
Are you referring to SwordShield or the third edition of PTA there? Because it's sounding like that's true for either.
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Iduno
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Re: Review: Pokemon Tabletop United

Post by Iduno »

The Adventurer's Almanac wrote:They also strive to make PTU's pokemon more balanced than the video games, and this is absolutely true... but anyone who's played Pokemon can tell you that shit is 12 sorts of fucked up and Gamefreak never had any intention of balancing shit. So really, the bar was low.
I remember Gen I had some sort of overcomplicated rock-scissors-paper web that looked mostly balanced, except grass/bugs were shit and dragons were great. I think steel became the even better dragon, and fairy can maybe hurt everything? The idea that as you progress you must find better pokemon means they want to make some pokemon just better than others.

Sticking every type with the same number of weaknesses and the same number of no effects would make the game more interesting. If you want "better" pokemon, just have single-type pokemon be the rare ones. "I want a ghost to take on all of these psychic pokemon, but this ghost-poison pokemon keeps taking too much damage in return. I'll have to go to the extra-haunted cemetary to get a pure ghost."
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Re: Review: Pokemon Tabletop United

Post by The Adventurer's Almanac »

Koumei wrote:Are you referring to SwordShield or the third edition of PTA there? Because it's sounding like that's true for either.
Yeah. Shit is 12 sorts of fucked up, man. Sword & Shield are gutted and PTA 3 is gonna release with six motherfucking books, three of which are Pokedexes. Despite this, "Pokemon do not have as many options as they used to and many will think they’ve been dumbed down". Looks like Stark's taking tips from Gamefreak. My favorite part of PTA 3 is that accuracy is no longer a thing - you just add your ATK/SPATK modifier to your roll. I cannot foresee this going poorly in any way. It's almost depressingly "streamlined".
Iduno wrote:I remember Gen I had some sort of overcomplicated rock-scissors-paper web that looked mostly balanced, except grass/bugs were shit and dragons were great. I think steel became the even better dragon, and fairy can maybe hurt everything?
Yeah, resistances can be complicated if you aren't a Pokemon addict. That being said, this game would be shit without it and I would argue that the type system is one of the things from the video games that can't be changed. Should it be? Maybe, but I'm not gonna fucking do it. Part of the advantage of Pokemon RPGs is that they're based on a licensed property that a ton of people already know, so you don't have to re-explain the type system to them. Plus there are Trainer Classes that play havoc with what's getting Resisted or what's Super Effective. PTU has a lot of moving parts and it's too much for some of the people I've played with.
These people then went on to run OSR games straight out of the book and play the same character in 5e over and over again, so I don't feel a great loss.
Last edited by The Adventurer's Almanac on Wed Nov 13, 2019 4:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by The Adventurer's Almanac »

Time for making your Pokemon Trainer. This book continually refers to a GM, but I think they could have gotten away with calling the guy in charge the Pokemon Master. It's dumb and silly, but we're already sitting around playing Pokemon fucking tabletop, our dignity never even entered the room. I usually just tell people I play D&D instead of trying to explain "it's like D&D, but with Pokemon". I don't want to have to answer those follow-up questions.
Chapter two!
Chapter 2: Character Creation

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Rather than bother explaining the rules to you, we jump straight into making our Trainer. Trainers are a lot more complicated than Pokemon, and there's a 9-step process to making one:
  • Step 1: Character Concept
    Step 2: Create Background
    Step 3: Choose Edges
    Step 4: Choose Features
    Step 5: Assign Combat Stats
    Step 6: Find Derived Stats
    Step 7: Basic Descriptions (???)
    Step 8: Choose Pokemon
    Step 9: Money and Items
Fucking hell, this has to be trimmed down. Plus the order is fucking wrong anyway - you want to be choosing your Features before anything because those are your fucking classes, and they have prerequisites. Who in their right goddamn minds would go through and pick their skills and shit and THEN pick a class based on those skills? Freaks, that's who. And people doing this for the first time. Let's go through this process and see how many of these steps we could combine or get rid of in a hypothetical heartbreaker.

Character Concept
Oh, look at that: it tells you to skim through the book to get an idea of what the game has available before coming up with a concept. On top of that, it even says to talk to the other players about what kind of campaign you'll be playing in so that everybody makes characters that are on the same page. Lastly, you only need a quick idea to get started and it's recommended to expand on your character later. Overall, two paragraphs of good advice. There's a cute little example trainer to go along with us for the ride.

Create Background
This is a fancy way of determining your starting Skill Ranks. Obviously you should make it related to your character's personality or backstory or what the fuck ever, and there's even some example backgrounds to help you out. Some of my players thought that you had to pick from the example backgrounds, but I encourage them to pick the classes they want and make their background match that. This sections recommends reading up on Skill Ranks before going further... I'm not a fan of flipping around like this. Should there be a quick blurb or primer on how they work here, or does it not matter since this is a PDF? At any rate, I guess this is where we should talk about the skill system.

There are 3 categories of skills: Body, Mind, and Spirit. This topic has been discussed around here before - modern medicine has blown the fuck out of mind-body dualism and Descartes can eat shit forever. There are 18 Skills total. There are not 6 Skills in each category. This bothers me, but not all Skills are created equally, as anyone can tell you. Our Body Skills are Acrobatics, Athletics, Combat, Intimidate, Stealth, and Survival. These skills are all pretty useful and just about any Trainer will make use of some of them rather often. The Mind Skills are General Education, Medicine Education, Occult Education, Pokémon Education, Technology Education, Guile, and Perception. Of these, three, possibly four matter. Occult, Medicine, and Technology Education are all common dump skills because they rarely come up unless the campaign is focused around that kind of shit. Perception is your typical god skill that lets you see or hear anything at any time. Last, the Spirit Skills are Charm, Command, Focus, and Intuition. This is a Pokemon game, so Command is heads and shoulders above all the others, particularly because the higher your Skill, the more fucking experience your Pokemon get when you train them! No, fuck you, you can't use your Pokemon Education to train your Pokemon better, that's Command only. Suck my fucking dick, this is blatantly awful - I'll get into how awful it is later.

Skills have 6 Ranks, from Pathetic to Master rank. For each Rank in a Skill you have, you roll 1d6 when using the skill. Skills all begin at Untrained, or Rank 2. When creating a character, you start off with one skill at Rank 4, one at Rank 3, and three at Rank 1. You can't increase your Skills past a certain rank until you hit certain levels. Interestingly enough, the cap is lifted when you hit level 12... in a 50 level game. This means that high-level trainers are Masters in a shit-ton of skills.

So let's talk about this math: It took me and apparently other GMs a little while to grok setting DCs when skills are set up like this. The way it works is obvious: someone who is Pathetic at something stands literally no chance against a Master. Shit, even an Adept at rank 4 can only compete if the Master rolls below average.. but it's still completely possible for a Master to eat shit in their chosen field. Just really unlikely. I'll get more into Skills next chapter, but I don't think I've seen too many other games work like this. What would be the consequences of moving over to a dice pool system or something? It seems like it wouldn't be a hard change to make since you're already rolling d6s, but I don't know enough about dice pools to work out the math on it.

Choose Edges
What the fuck is an Edge? I get asked this question a lot. I say that it's like a Feature, but not as good so they charge you less for it. The books says they "are used to represent a character's training and development in the broad fields covered by this game's Skills." You will spend most of your Edges on improving your Skill Ranks, because that's the only way to do it. Otherwise, there's a hodgepodge of random shit that we'll get into next chapter - a sneak peak is the Swimmer Edge. It lets you swim faster and hold your breath longer. Woo. Trainers start off with 4 Edges and get one on odd levels.

Choose Features
This is the meat of your Trainer, what makes them stand out from all the other idiots in the party who think hitting a Ghost-type with a sword does anything. There are General Features, which are kind of lame and specific, but not as shitty as the Edges. Then there are your Class Features. Classes are made up of 7-8 Features and each Feature has its own prerequisite. You will be spending most of your Features on your class... es. Trainers have 50 levels and get a Feature every even level, and I'm already running into some serious problems here. 50 level is a lot of fucking levels to chew through - I've been running a game for over 2 years and we have 40 sessions under our belts (please don't laugh). The highest level PC just hit level 14. This should be really obvious: Why not just have 25 fucking levels and let Trainers get a Feature and Edge every level? This is actually one of those things I was talking about that has been homebrewed up, but I don't think it's been tested very much. I think it's a great idea for one big reason: The skill caps don't change, so you unlock the cap halfway through your career instead of a quarter of the way into it, which feels nicer. Having more going on in less levels is definitely a good idea - we don't want to be like 4e, do we?

Anyway, there are too many Features for any one class, so you are forced to multiclass. The cap is 4, but even I don't do that when I make badass boss NPCs and shit, and none of my players have picked up their fourth classes yet. Four classes is a hell of a cognitive load. While I think the cap is too high, I love this forced multiclassing shit. The problems is that there aren't any restrictions on what classes on can get - If you want to combine 4 non-combat classes in a game where everybody fights every fucking day, you can do that and drag your team down. With the way the action economy works, unless you're twinked out it's easier and better to pick up a combat class so you AND your pokemon can dish out damage every round instead of just your little buddy. This is just an overview though - we'll get into the details in Chapter 4. As a side note, the book recommends you not pick up 3 or 4 classes at level 1. Good on you. Trainers start with 4 Features and one free Training Feature - more on that later.

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Seriously like 33% of my player's PC were raised by Pokemon. Why is that so popular and why do these grown ass adults always play children who ran away from home or some shit?

Assign Combat Stats
Thank fucking god, the combat stats are completely separate from skills. They're ripped straight from the games - you've got HP, Attack, Defense, Special Attack, Special Defense, and Speed. Interestingly enough, Speed is your typical dump stat for Trainers and Pokemon alike. Why is that? Let's go over the stats to determine why:

HP is not the same as your Hit Points. Oh boy. Trainers and Pokemon actually have separate formulas for HP. Yes, I said formulas. They are similar, but different, which has caused endless confusion for my players after a few drinks. But you'll find about about that in the next step! Don't skimp on your HP stat or you're fucking dead, kiddo.

Attack and Special Attack are basically the same thing: You add one to your Physical attacks and the other to your Special attacks. Yup, you just straight up add it onto your damage roll. This is countered by...

Defense and Special Defense. These straight up subtract the relevant damage when hit, to a minimum of 1 damage. These also affect your Evasion stats. You have three of those: Physical Evasion, Special Evasion, and Speed Evasion. Each is increased by your Defense, Special Defense, and Speed stats respectively, and for every 5 points in those stats, you have +1 in the corresponding Evasion, up to a maximum of +6. People roll a d20 to hit in this game, so you want as much Evasion as possible. The neat thing is that you can use Speed Evasion to evade any attack, while Physical can only evade Physical and Special can only evade Special. Problem with that is...

Speed. It determines your initiative in combat. That's it, initiative is static for everyone and the players have complete control over it. It sure makes starting fights easier. But that's really all it does, outside of the badass Speed Evasion. If you focus on Speed, then one day a big hit WILL slip through your Evasion and fuck your 5 Defense ass up.

Speaking of which, the default stats are 10 HP and 5 in everything else. Trainers start with 10 stat points to distribute and gain +1 on every level up. They can't put more than 5 points in a single stat when starting.

Find Derived Stats
The hard part is done, now we just... plug in the numbers. Fortunately, all of this shit is located on the character sheet so you don't have to look at this page every time you level up.

Trainers have Action Points, which they use to power features. For example, a Musician must spend 1 AP in order to sing a Song, which buffs nearby allies. AP comes back at the start of each... Scene. It says to refer to the Playing the Game chapter for more. In a post 4e world, this isn't as contentious as it used to be, but it still has its own problems. We can bitch about that later. Trainers start with 5 AP and get +1 for every 5 levels.

Hit Points are not HP. If you hit 0, you get knocked out and you can't do shit anymore.
Here's the formula for trainers:
Trainer Hit Points = Trainer’s Level x 2 + (HP x 3) +10

And here's the one for Pokemon:
Pokémon Hit Points = Pokémon Level + (HP x 3) + 10

You may note that these look very similar, because they are. Trainers have 50 levels while Pokemon go to the full 100, but for some reason, the developers felt the need for Trainers to have as much health as their Pokemon. I find this decision questionable, but I guess it depends on the tone of your game. Either way, this highlights another problem with the leveling system: Trainers and Pokemon should operate off of the same fucking level scaling, especially if you're going to have formulas like this to even the gap. And guess what? Some Trainer Classes give out combat stats so they can keep up even better. In my heartbreaker, I'd make both of them go to 25 levels and be done with it.

Anyway, there's a Power stat. It doesn't say what the range is, but Trainers start at 4 and get +1 if they have Novice (Rank 3) Athletic and +1 with Adept (Rank 4) Combat. Power 6 is what Rhyhorn and Typhlosion has. To give you a sneak peak, that means Trainers at peak strength can lift up to 230 lbs and drag 460 lbs. Not exactly impressive... and Power goes all the way to 16. What on earth has Power 16, you may ask? Just one form of one pokemon: Zygarde Complete. The massively overpowered planet guardian gundam thing. It can lift up to... 1500 lbs. :sad:

There are two jump stats: High Jump and Long Jump, and each are measured in meters, which is the size of a square in this game. Trainers start at 0 High Jump and have to make an Acrobatics check to jump up at all. At Adept Acrobatics, you get +1 High Jump. At Expert (Rank 5) Acrobatics, you get another +1. If you have a "running start", you get another +1. There are also other ways to increase this stat, but being able to do a leaping 9-foot flip sounds pretty badass. Long Jump is just half your Acrobatics Rank, so that maxes out at 3 normally. The world record in long jumping is 9 meters, so I'm very unimpressed here.

Next, we arrive at our Overland movement speed - this is how many meters you move in a round, which is 10 seconds.
There is a formula for this.
Overland = 3 + [(Athl + Acro)/2]

The astute will notice that means the minimum is 4 and the maximum is 9. Moving 9 meters in 10 seconds is a, uh... casual pace, to say the least. Is everybody in this game geriatric or something? Where's the MOVEMENT?

Getting near the end, we have Throwing Range - this is important because it includes throwing Pokeballs and shit. It's 4 + your Athletics Rank and putting your Pokemon out far away is sometimes an excellent tactical decision.

Trainers are Medium size and nothing else, fuck you. You playing a kid? Medium size. Fat giant man? Medium. There's also Weight Classes in this game. They don't come up very often, but some Moves rely on them. 55-100 lbs is WC 3. 110-220 lbs is WC 4. 220+ is WC 5. Weight classes actually don't go higher than 7, and 7 is specifically only for Pokemon with the Heavy Metal ability, and that's it. I'm starting to realize the scaling in this game is kind of all over the place, isn't it?

Basic Descriptions
What is your fucking character like? I think this all should've been rolled up into the Background or Concept or something, because this just tells you to name your character and maybe come up with a backstory or something. Or maybe talk to the other players about already knowing their PCs. I mean, this is useful stuff, but it seems out of place.

Choose Pokemon
OH YEAH THERE ARE POKEMON IN THIS FUCKING POKEMON GAME I FORGOT BECAUSE I JUST SPENT 3 HOURS LOOKING THROUGH CLASSES AND EDGES TO FRANKENSTEIN A CHARACTER TOGETHER
Stat your Pokemon out before the game starts, for fuck's sake. People who don't do this are worse than Hitler. It says it's up to the GM to decide how many and what Pokemon are available, it recommends level 1 Trainers start with a level 5 or 10 Pokemon. Low level play in this game is suffering - more on that later! The GM's chapter will tell us how to determine starter pokemon and the like.

Money and Items
You know what would be nice? Some kind of table that stated how much money a PC would be expected to have by a certain level so that novice GMs had an idea of how to progress their games... instead, we get this:

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Fuck these people. And fuck Lisa, too - she forgot to buy bandages!

I'm a dumbass and I almost forgot that this chapter also contains...

CHARACTER ADVANCEMENT!
Lay it on me! Trainers level up in two ways: by gaining a Milestone or by getting 10 Trainer Experience. More on that in the GM chapter. There are certain Level milestones that you get bonuses on, and I'm not sure how I feel about them.
  • At Level 2 you can rank your skills up to Adept and you gain a free Skill Edge. Notably, this Edge can't be used to rank something up to Adept.
    At Level 5 you become an Amateur Trainer and you have two choices: on even Level Ups from 2-10, you gain +1 Attack or Special Attack. This is to help out lagging fighters. You can also get a General Feature, so nothing in your class.
    At Level 6 you unlock Expert skills and get another Skill edge. Same as before.
    At Level 10 you are a Capable Trainer and can get the same stat boosts as before or two Edges for which you qualify.
    At Level 12 you unlock Master Skills and can hit the Skill cap in whatever you want.
    At Level 20 you're a Veteran Trainer and get the same bonuses as a Level 10 Trainer.
    Level 30 makes you an Elite Trainer, and you can get the stat boost, two Edges, or a General Feature.
    Level 40 brings you to the level of Champion, and you get... the same bonuses as level 30.
I think this has some issues. You cap out skills way too early and the bonuses are kind of lame. However, this serves to almost split the game up into different Trainer tiers... but nothing is ever explicitly made of this. This section was almost like an afterthought, more stuff to pile onto your character as you level to patch holes in your build or whatever. You can and will be rocking a ton of shit if you ever hit level 50, which you won't.

RETRAINING
This is pretty straightforward - spend 2 Trainer XP to retrain a Feature, 1 to retrain an Edge, and 1 to move one stat point to another stat. You have to keep something if it's a prerequisite for something you still have. If it has a permanent effect and you've already used it, you can't retrain it. Generally you should ask your GM if it's okay. There's a tip from "Doxy", one of the devs, saying that the GM should give the Trainers a few chances to retrain without spending experience, whether it's just fiat or through visiting an NPC.

TIPS FOR NEW PLAYERS
It's only a single page - it says to pick an Introductory Class, since they tend to be neutral to any kind of battling style or Pokemon preference, and pair that with a Battling Style or Specialist Team class, to beef up your Pokemon. If that's too rigid for you, just try and match 2 classes that look like they'd go well together. You should focus your build rather than trying to do a bunch of different shit. It says you can support your pokemon or directly fight with them, but it neglects to mention that the latter is usually the best option. Combat Trainers want stats from their advancement while others want the Edges or Features... they generally seem to support specialization, which is odd since the skill system facilitates everyone having 4-5 maxed out skills.

BUILDING TRAINER ARCHETYPES
Holy shit, I do not fucking care about this part at all. This is just 9 pages of different builds that are based on characters from the games or anime. Does anybody actually give a shit about this? Please say no.

Next up: Skills, Edges, and Features.

This post didn't have enough cute pictures in it, so:
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Last edited by The Adventurer's Almanac on Thu Nov 14, 2019 6:40 am, edited 3 times in total.
jt
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Re: Review: Pokemon Tabletop United

Post by jt »

Iduno wrote:I remember Gen I had some sort of overcomplicated rock-scissors-paper web that looked mostly balanced, except grass/bugs were shit and dragons were great. I think steel became the even better dragon, and fairy can maybe hurt everything? The idea that as you progress you must find better pokemon means they want to make some pokemon just better than others.
Actually, the chart is set up so Dragon looks like the nuts (and it is good), but the best types in Gen 1 are Normal and Psychic. Normal because you get a huge attack bonus for using a same-type move and the best attacks are Normal. Psychic because all of its counters suck and loads of Psychic types have amazing stats. Asking people to guess what the best competitive gen 1 pokemon are is pretty fun, because the actual top 15 prominently features pokemon that nobody guesses like Chansey, Tauros, and Starmie.

The later additions to the type chart were all balance patches. Dark was a Psychic nerf / Bug buff. Steel nerfed a bunch of stuff (but has itself been one of the strongest types in several generations). Dragon started getting better every generation until they added Fairy to counter it. But these also make the type chart even harder to remember - the originals are all working on some sort of logic, but Fairy is literally just whatever was needed for balance's sake.
Iduno wrote:Sticking every type with the same number of weaknesses and the same number of no effects would make the game more interesting.
The different arrangements on the chart really add a lot of character to the game that wouldn't be there using a more uniform grid like RPS 15. It's important that Ghost's immunities are special, that Normal's row is almost empty (and resisting it is a rare special thing), and that some types resist a lot of things.

It's far from perfect though. It's way too big. Shit to remember goes up with the square of the type count - I played competitively for a while and still had to look some weaknesses up. Some types are too good (Ground). Some types suck way too much (Ice). It could be improved, but uniformity isn't the answer.
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Post by jt »

The Adventurer's Almanac wrote:I think they could have gotten away with calling the guy in charge the Pokemon Master.
That would abbreviate to PM. I'd never be able to resist calling them the Pokemon Manager.
The Adventurer's Almanac wrote:Oh, look at that: it tells you to skim through the book to get an idea of what the game has available before coming up with a concept. On top of that, it even says to talk to the other players about what kind of campaign you'll be playing in so that everybody makes characters that are on the same page.
Holy shit. I don't think I've ever seen a book acknowledge either of these points.
The Adventurer's Almanac wrote:There are 3 categories of skills: Body, Mind, and Spirit.
The Tri-Stat system uses this. Strength/Dex/Mind is a more common 3-stat system. This means whoever wrote this is more weaboo than grognard. Which isn't surpising.
The Adventurer's Almanac wrote:the higher your Skill, the more fucking experience your Pokemon get when you train them!
You're right. It's AD&D.
The Adventurer's Almanac wrote:What would be the consequences of moving over to a dice pool system or something? It seems like it wouldn't be a hard change to make since you're already rolling d6s, but I don't know enough about dice pools to work out the math on it.
Check out the curves you're using on anydice. Switching to from d6 to dice pools isn't any easier than switching from d20 to dice pools. Dice pools are rarely the right answer.

If you can describe the kind of outputs you want, I (or some other Denner) can help figure out what you're looking for.
The Adventurer's Almanac wrote:Physical Evasion, Special Evasion, and Speed Evasion.
What is this shit. You already have these stats effecting damage rolls, why do you need to apply them a second time via a second method? This is only going to make stat disparities more pronounced. If you're cleaning this system up, you can straight up remove this and it's not going to hurt the game. You might not even need to tweak anything else to fill in the gap.
The Adventurer's Almanac wrote:Hit Points are not HP.
This is dumb. It's dumb because they used two renderings of the same name to mean two different things. And it's dumb because they don't need to be two different things in the first place. Just make one stat point give you three HP or whatever.

This entire derived stats section confirms: yes, this is AD&D.
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Post by OgreBattle »

In this system...

How many rounds will a typical 1 on 1 duel take?
3 v 3?
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Post by OgreBattle »

Pokemon the game plays more like MtG than a 'simulation of monster combat' like Monster Rancher, as nobody explains how substitute 'actually works roleplay wise'

Pokemon anime ignores most of the game mechanics to have fighting elemental monsters not constantly switch out or use off-element moves
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jt wrote:This means whoever wrote this is more weaboo than grognard.
You would be correct, the people who made PTU are all huge weebs. I can't knock it, I enjoy ultraviolent anime myself. One of the devs even PMed me a book about the fox cults of Asia and shit... before I got banned from the Discord. Still not really sure why that happened.
jt wrote:Check out the curves you're using on anydice. Switching to from d6 to dice pools isn't any easier than switching from d20 to dice pools. Dice pools are rarely the right answer.
Are you talking about this? I'm not really wanting to switch to dice pools or anything, I was just pondering on what the effects would be. I'm vaguely familiar with the concept, but I haven't finished reading this paper about all the different kinds of dice resolution mechanics yet...
jt wrote:If you're cleaning this system up, you can straight up remove this and it's not going to hurt the game.
Well, Speed doesn't effect damage rolls, but you have a point. What if Speed Evasion was the only evasion you got? People complain that Speed is currently undervalued and making it into the only form of Evasion would probably go a long way to fix that... hopefully without making it the god stat.
OgreBattle wrote:How many rounds will a typical 1 on 1 duel take?
3 v 3?
This is a question with a lot of answers. My first answer is that in a cooperative storytelling game you don't want 1 on 1 duels very often. My second answer is that, assuming one fighter doesn't have a Type advantage over the other and they're about the same level, roughly 3-4 rounds which can be resolved in 5 minutes or less. My third answer is that this game does solo PCs very well and anyone who can't get enough players should still give it a shot even if you just have one. 3 v 3 is different. To be honest, I very rarely have straight up Pokemon battles, so a 3 v 3 is really more like a 6 v 6. This takes about 3-6 rounds for me, but I have fairly involved battles where there are sometimes reinforcements and sometimes the losers run away to cut their losses. A typical combat for me is resolved in 30 minutes to an hour, while a boss fight or mook horde might take 1-2 hours. I have also been told that I play way faster than most people who play PTU - one anecdote from the Discord I got made me realize I was playing a different game from most people. I was told the average time for a round was 30 motherfucking minutes. I said that if combat was anywhere near that slow that I would never have gotten into this game, but I understand that most people play PTU online, so I imagine that makes things take longer. But still, what the fucking fuck? My party actually timed themselves clearing a town of a burgeoning zombie horde - it took them about 8-9 rounds to run around town killing shit before the big finale at the town's temple, and each round averaged out to 15 minutes. If that sounds like a lot... well, it is, but keep in mind that there were 3 Trainers commanding 3 Pokemon fighting 11 zombies at a time, immediately followed by 10 more. So a turn, on average, takes about a minute to resolve for a group that's been playing once or twice a month for 2 years.
And that was some wild shit too, they were flying around on a Gyarados and having it spread across different Z-levels so the melee guy could slash zombies from its tail near the ground while the other two took potshots out of harm's way, and every time a zombie killed a townsperson they would rise up as a zombie the next round. Good shit.
OgreBattle wrote:Pokemon the game plays more like MtG than a 'simulation of monster combat' like Monster Rancher, as nobody explains how substitute 'actually works roleplay wise'
Well, I have some bad news. This book doesn't really make any attempts to try and explain much of anything in the Pokemon universe - I believe that's something the splat books go into. Even then, there's nothing definite explaining how most Moves work... but we can get into that during the Moves chapter. Remember all those stupid questions I asked about Shadowrun's magic? That was so I could answer how the fuck any of this shit works outside of combat. It's a work in progress.

Anyway, there's something I forgot to mention during the character advancement section:
In my heartbreaker, I would explicitly break up the progression into 5 different Tiers, each lasting 5 levels. Class Features are already supposed to be better and have higher prerequisites the deeper you get into the class, so we could facilitate that by cutting the crap and having it be based on what tier you are. Additionally, this would allow for lower-tier features to automatically scale as you level: My basic idea is a Tier 1 Feature that grants you a shitty move like Tackle, and when you get to Tier 2 you automatically learn Cut, and so on. Obviously, this is more difficult to pull off with features that aren't that simple, but I think it's the way to move forward with this game... and looking at the design documents for Pokemon Journeys (the game the PTU devs are working on), I'm not the only one who thinks that. They only have 4 tiers, though, and a lot of other shit is different.
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Post by The Adventurer's Almanac »

We're on a roll, baby! Let's bang out another chapter tonight, it'll help me forget I should be writing for tomorrow's game. I heard that SwSh is bricking consoles now? What a horrible night to have a Curse.
On to some real meat!
Chapter 3: Skills, Edges, and Features.
Image
A group of Musicians would actually wreck the fucking game, but we'll talk about that in chapter 4.

The first thing we need to get out of the way is what exactly are Skills, Edges, and Features? Well, the game says: "Skills and Edges are related components of a Trainer that are used to develop their trained abilities and interests, whether in broader and more general ways with Skills or in more specific ways with Edges. Features are bigger units for character building that are usually contained in Trainer Classes." Now, maybe I'm just a little retarded, but that sounds kind of vague to me. But all you need to remember is that Features are for bigger things than Edges or Skills... and you buy Skills with Edges. But also you can buy non-Skill Edges. Let's get into it.

As stated before, we have Body, Mind, and Spirit Skill categories. There are 6 Skill Ranks, and you default at 2, Untrained.
Image

You can't take Adept Rank Skills until you hit level 2, Expert needs level 6, and Master requires level 12. In a 50 level game, I find this progression questionable, but at the same time nobody actually goes from level 1 to 50 in a single campaign. The game then goes on to say that an Easy DC is 5, a Challenging DC is 10, 15 is Hard, and 25 is nigh-impossible. This is generally a good metric, but as you might guess, the more ranks you have in a skill the more laughable the lower DCs are. A Master has a 6% chance to fail a "Hard" skill check, and nobody but them can even attempt something at DC 30. Technically a 5d6 could, but fuck you there's no way you're rolling five fucking 6s when you actually need to. Let's go more into the skills and their appropriateness for a Pokemon game.

First off, we have our Body Skills.


Acrobatics
Gee, does this look familiar? It's the skill for jumping, balancing, and general grace. Examples for using this skill include: dodging falling debris during a cave-in, juggling, or doing the opening scene from Raiders of the Lost Ark where you swap the treasure out for a bag of sand so you don't get murdered by Geodudes boulders. It is at this point that we immediately realize that they don't actually say what the DCs for any of those should be, and this is where I start having a big problem with the game. This kind of shit is inexcusable, especially when you know most of your audience has no tabletop experience or has only played D&D or some shit, and they're not used to the d6 Skill Rank system. Hard examples go a long way for comprehension. Acrobatics does have some mechanics uses, though: It's a DC 10 check to negate one meter of falling damage or to mount or stay mounted on a Pokemon in a fight. There are all the Acrobatics Edges on this page, but there's also a later section with all of the Edges lumped together. I'm not sure how I feel about that.

So... what are the metrics of power in this system? Just what kind of feats are our intrepid Trainers capable of? Well, if you're a Novice then you can cash in to jump an extra meter vertically and horizontally or never need to make checks to stay mounted again. At Adept, you can... increase your throwing range by 6 meters and Disengage 2 meters instead of one, so you don't eat an Attack of Opportunity. Yeesh. Experts get to... stand up as a Swift Action, or fucking run on walls for... up to 6 meters maximum. And that's it! It's all sort of neat, but I'm not very impressed.

Athletics
Hey, isn't this from Pathfinder, too? I kid, they're distinct enough for me to get it. Athletics is people who are swole and run marathons and are generally tough because they work out or something. What are our examples here? Climbing a tree... travelling for a single day? What the fuck? Seeing who tires out first in a chase? Okay, I'd still like some DCs, please. No? Fuck you, too.
A DC 8 Athletics Check lets you reel in a fish in the fishing "minigame", and a paltry DC 4 allows you to carry a "Staggering" amount of weight for a round.
Something I didn't mention is that some Edges can be grabbed with more than one skill - for example, the mounted edge I talked about under Acrobatics is also in here. You can also become a faster swimmer and hold your breath for up to 6 minutes, which is kind of impressive, I guess. At Adept we see our first Edge that teaches your Trainer a Move: Agility. Combat utility! Wait until I tell you guys how Combat Stages work in this game, you're going to flip your shit. We can also increase our Power by +2 as an Expert and carry up to 80 pounds more shit! Wow! Or we can get 6 Temporary HP when you take a Critical Hit or Massive Damage! What's Massive Damage? When you eat more than 50% of your Max HP in a single attack. Fucking hell, that's just awful.

Combat
This one looks mildly original. What's it for? Well, our examples are... grabbing the same item as someone else or pushing someone around without hurting them? Breaking obstacles? I've NEVER thought to use Combat to break shit, I always thought it was Athletics. Maybe I would have remembered if there were any FUCKING DCS! Combat is mostly used for Combat Maneuvers and qualifying for Weapon Moves. I like Weapons in this game, they're in Chapter 9. You don't get any Weapon Moves until you hit Adept Combat, and you get Master Weapon Moves at... Master Combat. Straightforward.
Sadly, this one only has two Edges: Basic Martial Arts, which is an Edge tax to get into the Martial Artist class, and that shitty Stamina one I ranted about in Athletics. That's an Expert level Edge. I'd rather run on walls because at least that's fucking cool.

Intimidate
Intimidate is for being a scary or coercive motherfucker. It lacks subtlety, but can work when other avenues of diplomacy fail. Or are lame. It explicitly says that "characters with a high Intimidate Rank tend to be physically
imposing even when they’re silent and not acting", and that's probably my favorite sentence in this chapter so far. Maybe it just feeds into the power fantasies I play these games for. Examples for this are: scaring off wild Pokemon, bullying people, and warding off hobos when you're walking downtown. It says that Intimidate isn't usually an Opposed Check, but can be if two people/groups are trying to scare each other or someone else... or against Focus to disrupt someone doing something. The same effect can also be achieved by not making a check and just waving weapons at them.
I know I keep ranting about it, but this section really pisses me off, because I would REALLY LIKE TO KNOW how easy or hard it is to intimidate ANYTHING AT ALL! Sure, I'm the GM and I can pull a number out of my ass, but I can do that for everything! And you're making me have to!
Edges for Intimidate include: Using Intimidate instead of Command for giving your Pokemon more EXP! Hey assholes, why not just let players do that without paying an Edge for it? We also can learn fucking Leer. Leer! At least it's a Cone move in this game. The Adept Edge causes the foe to lose all Evasion when you crit them. And also your Status moves can crit, because they normally can't. The Expert Edge is actually neat: You get +1 to your Critical Range if you're suffering from a "Persistent" status like Poison or Burn, and you also get a +1 to your Crit Range while under a "Volatile" status like Confusion or Rage. They do stack and you do crit on an 18+, if you don't have any other bonuses. And if you pick this up because you're crit-fishing, you will have other bonuses.

Stealth
You know there's not gonna be anything in the fucking Stealth section that actually has any hard rules. Examples here are... sneaking! Also pickpocketing or lockpicking. Or freeing yourself from bindings. Or "slipping out of a trap". Ninja shit, really. Very vague, too. I love it. :bash: Opposed Checks are 95% of the time against Perception, but kudos for bringing up Technology and Occult Education if you're trying to sneak past cameras or ghost eyes or whatever.
Our Novice Edge lets us use Stealth when people try to Grapple, Push, or Trip us... but if we win, we have to end the Grapple (god help me, the grappling rules). Adept Stealth lets us get the shitty Disengage 2 squares instead of 1 thing from earlier, and a +2 to our Dirty Trick Maneuvers. These include: Blinding, Slowing, or making the target Vulnerable and setting their Initiative to 0 until "the end of your next turn". Ooh boy. You can also pick up the totally useful move Astonish. It's probably the only Ghost move you'll get unless you're using splats, so learn to deal with it. At Expert, you gain the "Stealth Capability". Peeking ahead, what does that do?

Image

...
......
Hey, guys. I don't know if anybody told you this, but when I'm trying to approach my enemy for an up close assault, I am already purposefully moving to not make any noise. If you don't give me a fucking NUMBER to use when I make STEALTH CHECKS but you say I get some vague undefined bonus like this, you are SHITTING IN MY CHEERIOS. Neat effect though, makes you a real motherfucker if you can avoid AoOs and duck into a bush or behind a red barrel or something.

Survival
Survival is for outdoors shit. Or you can make a DC 20 check to identify wild Mushrooms? Holy shit, is it really that hard or something? That's gnarly. It says a common use for Survival is to spend up to an hour scouting an area and learning the common Pokemon of the area and what Apricorns & Berries are usually in it. Mercifully, we have some DCs for doing this! Grasslands should be a 12, wetlands a 16, and rainforests or the arctic a 20+. Beating the check by 4 or more should result in rarer info. Shit, they even have DCs for finding Fossils and Stones when you're doing geology and shit! Not only all this, but it also counts as an Education Skill like almost all the shit in Mind! Fucking great.
What kind of Edges are we working with? Novice lets us turn Apricorns into corresponding Pokeballs - neat! It also lets us identify Fossils with a DC 10 and operate machines to revive them. Also neat! We can also learn how to grow Apricorns and Berries with better growers and soil! My favorite is this one:

Image

If you thought this wasn't enough of a power skill, at Adept you can pick up Bulk Up to increase two of your stats at once. It's still not optimal in combat, but there are worse things you can do if there's nobody in range for you to hit. Fucking awesome skill, and one you're going to be using a lot if you play a Pokemon game where you go outside or track something down... and you will be.

This is getting a bit long and I'm getting tired, so I'll cut it off here for now.

Next up: Mind Skills (and hopefully Spirit too)
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Post by Koumei »

I like the idea of trainers learning a bunch of Tutor moves they can teach their pokemon. Now it seems that's not what happens here, you actually learn the moves yourself, but that's the direction I'd have taken it.
The Adventurer's Almanac wrote: Survival is for outdoors shit. Or you can make a DC 20 check to identify wild Mushrooms? Holy shit, is it really that hard or something?
DC 20 to tell if a mushroom is Big or Small (the only two types of mushroom that aren't also actual pokemon). Compared to reviving fossils and stuff which is much easier?
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Post by The Adventurer's Almanac »

Well, to spoil a bit, some classes do have Abilities that you can teach your pokemon, and I think you can pretty much teach them any Tutor move if you just take them to a tutor.

But uh, yeah... the fossil thing is weird. A Moderate DC for finding a Fossil is 18, and Hard is 25. Is identifying mushrooms really that much of an endeavor?
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Post by jt »

Some of these DCs read like they thought the system was D&D and others read like they realized it's Xd6 and the overwhelming lack of DCs is probably because these two camps got in an argument or something.

Also... holy shit it's Xd6. That's not what I thought you meant when you said it was d6 based earlier. This is a bad dice mechanic. It's what Risus uses. Risus is a joke system for joke games. Except I actually play Risus for stupid pickup games and I usually use a different dice mechanic, because Xd6 is too swingy and nonsensical for jokey one-off games.
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Post by Koumei »

I don't see the problem with Xd6 add-together games. It's a bit more obtuse than d20+bonus, but each d6 means more than "adding +1", and unlike dice pool systems it lets different skill levels straight up have different minimums as well as maximums (if you need a 5+ for a hit, then whether rolling 1 or 6 dice, you have a minimum of 0, you can be a grand master who just sucks balls at a trivial task. If you are rolling at base DC 5, someone who rolls 5 dice and adds them together can just say "I succeed").

That this game is all over the place (when it deigns to tell you a difficulty at all) is more a personal failing of this game than one inherent to the system. The Maid game almost uses the Xd6 system except they cut out "rolling extra dice and adding" in exchange for "simple multiplication" (your result is whatever you roll on 1d6, multiplied by your skill, so essentially you treat it as though every die came up the same number).
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Post by Shrapnel »

Hey, I was quoted in the first post! Cool!

A funny thing: I don't remember saying that. I mean, I must've, but I can't for the life of me recall when or where. Nor can I recall having ever played PTU. It must have made a good impression. Or I just have a shit memory.

Both could be true, I suppose...
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Post by jt »

Koumei wrote:I don't see the problem with Xd6 add-together games.
Going from 1d6 to 2d6 doesn't just extend the RNG range up by 6, it also shifts the probabilities of everything in the old range towards the top of that range. On 2d6, 6 is more likely than 1-5. And the most common number is 7, which is off the RNG for the 1d6er.

Going to 3d6, the most common numbers (10 and 11) are on the rare end of the 2d6 range. 4d6 makes the most common number 14, still uncommon on 3d6. And so on, but it starts getting milder.

This means that the percent chances of meeting a DC change by huge amounts with each point of skill. For example DC 10 for 1d6 through 5d6 is: impossible, a 17% chance, a 63% chance, a 90% chance, a 98% chance. It's rare for a skill DC to be relevant for more than one or two skill levels.
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That quote is like, five years old, I can't blame you for not remembering.

I'm glad that people have noticed how fucking bizarre the xd6 skill system is. However... I don't know if I'd call it swingy. It isn't when you compare it to your typical d20. Making up DCs for it is kind of nonsense, though. You know how I do it? I look at the PC with the highest relevant skill in the party, realize that an average roll on a d6 is 3.5, and make it up from there depending on if I want it to be hard or easy. For example, I have a Master of Lockpicking and she wants to Pick a Lock. Her average roll is a fucking 21, so if it's supposed to be a regular locked chest or something, I'd assign a 15 to it, to keep out filthy Untrained peasants, but she'd blast through it. Or if she was trying to get into a bank or something, that would probably be a DC 30.

I really don't like pulling numbers like this out of my ass with almost no context. I believe the reason they don't have any hard DCs is because they want to be setting agnostic, and Pokemon games run the gamut of tones. An example from the GM's section says that you would want a lower Acrobatics DC to jump from blimp to blimp like in Avatar if you're running an anime-style game, but you'd want a higher one if you're doing a gritty noir drama or something. Naturally, no numbers are involved whatsoever.
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jt wrote:This means that the percent chances of meeting a DC change by huge amounts with each point of skill. For example DC 10 for 1d6 through 5d6 is: impossible, a 17% chance, a 63% chance, a 90% chance, a 98% chance. It's rare for a skill DC to be relevant for more than one or two skill levels.
HA HA HA HA HA HA!

YOU FOOL, YOU'VE ACTIVATED MY TRAP CARD!


BEHOLD!


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Now you know why I was asking about dice pools...
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Post by jt »

The Adventurer's Almanac wrote:I'm glad that people have noticed how fucking bizarre the xd6 skill system is. However... I don't know if I'd call it swingy. It isn't when you compare it to your typical d20.
What I meant when I called it swingy is not the usual meaning and frequently the opposite, which... yeah, my bad.

What I meant was that the difference between f(x) and f(x+1) is all over the place. In d20+X the difference between 1 and 2 is 5% higher success rates, and the difference between 3 and 4 is also 5% higher success rates. It's always 5%, which isn't a huge swing, and it's also predictable. In Xd6 a difference of 1 X can easily be a 50% higher success rate. That's what I think of as swingy.

(I also don't think that "d20 is swingy" has every really meant anything. It doesn't matter that there's a 20 point spread in results when the only output is binary. If there was a system where a +4 vs DC 10 means you pull out your 75% biased coin, and a +5 means you use your 80% biased coin, I don't think people would call that swingy, even though it's identical.)
The Adventurer's Almanac wrote:Trap card.
You know what? Good on the authors for recognizing the outputs of their system. That's rare territory in RPG land. You'd hope they'd then go on to ask themselves if these are the outputs they actually want, but I ask too much.
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Post by deaddmwalking »

jt wrote: (I also don't think that "d20 is swingy" has every really meant anything. It doesn't matter that there's a 20 point spread in results when the only output is binary. If there was a system where a +4 vs DC 10 means you pull out your 75% biased coin, and a +5 means you use your 80% biased coin, I don't think people would call that swingy, even though it's identical.)
I think the d20 is swingy. You're just as likely to roll the worst possible result as the best possible result. We expect 'experts' to usually succeed, and when they fail to have a reason for it. With the d20, even with a binary success/failure, the expert is just as likely to have his worst day as his best day. There's not much of an 'average day'. Taking 10 addresses that to a fair degree.

The same issue exists and is compounded by d100 style systems. If you're supposed to be really good at something, you still end up failing 10-20% of the time. I wouldn't call someone that fucks up 1/5 of the time an 'expert'.
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Post by Whatever »

deaddmwalking wrote:The same issue exists and is compounded by d100 style systems. If you're supposed to be really good at something, you still end up failing 10-20% of the time. I wouldn't call someone that fucks up 1/5 of the time an 'expert'.
I would. In my experience, experts typically do a lot worse than that (an the average person is really quite terrible). Peer review exists for a reason. Rehearsals exist for a reason. Two of our six space shuttles exploded.

People, individually, are just not very good at the things we do. So we set up systems to catch our errors. We make it so that people much worse than the average driver can still get around safely.

Sure, experts can be expected to do routine stuff mostly without error. But you shouldn't be rolling for that stuff to begin with.
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Post by The Adventurer's Almanac »

Good game last night, I'm ready to rock and roll through some more skills.
Next up are our Mind Skills. They're almost all Education skills of varying kinds.

General Education
Image
This guy is the picture for this section because he's generic, too.

This one's exactly what it sounds like - it covers general learnin'. Here's what the book says it covers: "trivia and local or regional knowledge... basic training in mathematics, natural sciences, and other common fields... politics and current events, such as knowing about the stances of local Gym Leaders or government officials on political issues... knowledge of history is a common usage... A campaign with a law enforcement focus might use General Education to cover police protocol and the law, while a wild west campaign might use General Education to cover dueling etiquette and other narrative standbys in frontier life."

Uh, yeah, the only thing stopping this from being the god Mind skill is the fact that Perception also exists. Fucking hell. The Novice Edges you can pick up with this allow you to plant shit, like in Survival, groom your Pokemon, and help out other people better in Assisted Skill Checks. At Expert General Education you can get +1 to all Education skills, including Survival. A very solid skill that's probably too broad, but fuck having a million different Education skills.

Medicine Education
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I don't think you're allowed to use anyone else for a picture here.

This covers all sorts of situations, like first aid in the field, growing limbs and organs in a lab, and other forms of biology. It explicitly says that in higher tech settings that this skill can be used to "conduct gene therapy or produce other biological augmentations. Other more blatantly “mad science” projects may require complex steps with Medicine Education Checks involved along the way." Yes, playing God is mildly supported by the system.

This one only has two Edges, both for Novices. I'll need to mention something else about this game first: Whenever you use a Potion or something on someone else, you lose your turn because you're applying it, and they lose their next turn because they have to stand still like you're playing Left 4 Dead or something. Medic Training removes that penalty for the other guy, so you aren't getting fucked by the action economy. You can also create Repels, if you have a Chemistry set. They actually added a new Edge as errata: You get to set up a Field Clinic at camp that lets you heal people harder, get rid of injuries easier, and make Bandages in the field. To be honest, it's bitch work, but you can do it if you want. It's good for NPCs.

Occult Education
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Note to self: Cute Pokegirls sell books. Downloads? Whatever.

Magic! They mention that the usefulness of this skill depends on the campaign, but we use it a lot in mine. It covers esoteric lore, knowing how superpowers work, and really anything supernatural that comes up in your game. Intuition and Focus govern the use of special snowflake powers, so this one is strictly about knowing shit. Since this one's so nonspecific, I'll mention how I like to handle Education skills in my game: unless they're actively trying to remember something, I usually just give out relevant information based on the highest Skill Rank in the party. As an example, our magic spirit samurai is an Expert in the occult, so when they're confronted with magic shit I can explain any fundamentals that are relevant to the situation, because he really knows his shit, but if he were to try and read the energy of a rune or something, he'd have to roll for it.

Only two Edges here, too, and they're both Novice: One lets you turn Shards into an Elemental Stone (4 Red Shards for a Fire Stone, for example), an you can also destroy a Stone for 4 Shards. Certain classes can use Shards to make items, but that's about it. The other lets you make Cleanse Tags, which tell things that turn invisible and go through walls to go fuck themselves. They're both very situational, because most parties are equipped to just murder Ghost-types that do that kind of shit.

Pokemon Education
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WTF is this art style?

The name of the game is Pokemon. This is one of the most useful Skills you can have in any kind of game: This covers raising Pokemon and all the scientific fields related to Pokemon research. It says that Pokemon Education can be used to learn "their behavior patterns, needs, and their means of attack and weaknesses", but it naturally doesn't tell you what a DC for fucking any of those would be. :bash: It says that Type Effectiveness and what Types a Pokemon are are common knowledge for people without Pathetic Pokemon education, which helps alleviate any metagame concerns - just tell your fucking players what the Pokemon is weak to and keep the game moving. All of the examples are about identifying or remembering shit about Pokemon, obviously.

All 4 Edges here are for Novices: We have Breeder, which lets your Pokemon fuck if you leave them alone for 4 hours and make a paltry DC 12 Pokemon Education check. As a side note, there's a decent amount of stuff in here that supports capital b Breeding, but I'm not sure if I'd include any of it in a heartbreaker. It eats up downtime and unless the whole party is on board with playing fantasy eugenics, it can be weird dispatching your old friends to replace them with their ubermensch children. This also lets you identify/reanimate Fossils, groom your Pokemon, and use Pokemon Education in place of your social skills when interacting with Pokemon. Overall, I like these - they're all basically roleplaying or fluff stuff, which I think is where Edges shine.

Technology Education
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What the fuck is this thing? Is this from a game? A spinoff? Help me out here, this kid looks like a wannabe Doc Ock.

So far these Education skills have been broad enough for me to not have much complaints about them, and this one's not any different. Tech Education covers... fucking technology. Mechanical, chemical, and electrical engineering are explicitly under this skill, as are materials and computer sciences. Biology's for Medicine, and you need both to do horrific Shadowrun augments to you or your Pokemon. However, if you're playing in a lower-tech setting, then it still can be relevant for your genius whizkid characters who make repeating crossbows and alchemist's fire and shit. This is also the skill you use to drive a car! Car chases are always fun when Pokemon are involved...

The Edges here are all crafting related: Make Apricorns into Pokeballs, create Pokeballs and Great Balls for cheaper than you can buy them, fix Pokeballs that failed to catch Pokemon with a DC 15 check, and make Repels and Super Repels. We'll get into crafting more later, but these all cost cash money, unless you have what's called "Tech Scrap". [X] Scrap is just a generic kind of material used in a specific category: for example, Food Scrap is cash that can only be used for making snacks and shit. So if you've got $1000 in Tech Scrap, you can make 10 Pokeballs with it, as opposed to the 4 Pokeballs you could buy with an equivalent amount of cash. Honestly, it's simple enough that I like it, but I'm curious as to what the Den thinks about it.

Guile
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Remember, kids: Pretty women want things from you.

How interesting, Guile is our only social skill under Mind. Are the devs trying to say that smart people are generally better at lying? Not only can it be used for that, but also for acting in general, or just subtle manipulations during conversation. I like the example here: Stealth is used to hide from someone's senses, but you'd use Guile to just blend into a crowd and play it cool. Oddly enough, it's also your "streetwise" skill, for knowing black markets and how to read the sitch on the streets, cutter.

Guile is lucky enough to have 5 Edges: Novices can eat more "Poffins", which is Contest shit nobody cares about, have your Initiative boosted by your Guile Rank (meh), and learn Confide. Confide is a Move that will be our introduction to the game's keyword system: each Move might have keywords associated with it, which have effects or tag them as a specific kind of Move. Confide is lame - it lowers someone's SPATK by 1 Combat Stage within 4 meters of you, and it has the "Social" keyword, which means it can't be Intercepted by someone else and it bypasses Substitute. An Adept Edge makes it to where when we hit someone with a Social move, they have a -2 penalty to Saves vs Volatile Statuses for 1 full round... and that's just sad to me. Every Edge should be at least as cool as wallrunning, and you give me this shit? You can also get a +2 to a specific kind of Combat Maneuver that's Social, too. If this Skill sounds relatively sketchy outside of bludgeoning people with it to lie to their faces, you would be correct, because it fucking is. I know it's hard to come up with this stuff, but can I at least get a dominate effect for a round or something? Anything?

Perception
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What a boring, yet stylish picture. Fits the franchise, really.

Ah, the true God Skill. Are you trying to perceive something around you? Then you roll this skill. The game even knows it and offers up a platitude: "Perception is by far one of the most often used Skills in Pokémon Tabletop United, and nearly every type of character can benefit from an improved awareness of the world around them. However, just Perception alone can’t solve all problems; it often takes other specialized knowledge Skills to make sense of the details that a hawk-eyed character spots." No Edges here, fuck you. SOMEONE is already maxing this skill out or you're retarded.

Unsurprisingly, I'm noticing a pattern: I like the Edges that either let you do RP/noncombat stuff or baller shit like picking up Stealth, running on walls, and pwning ghosts with my magic Inuyasha tags. +1 to my jumping range is just fucking filler.

I actually went on way longer than I meant to for these seven, so...
Next time: Spirit Skills
Last edited by The Adventurer's Almanac on Sun Nov 17, 2019 8:33 pm, edited 5 times in total.
Koumei
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Post by Koumei »

The Adventurer's Almanac wrote:You get to set up a Field Clinic at camp that lets you heal people harder, get rid of injuries easier, and make Bandages in the field.
So nothing that lets you straight-up be Nurse Joy, or help train your pokemon to heal each other (Heal Pulse, Aromatherapy etc)? Nothing that replicates the Pokemon Refresh mechanic where after fights you can end all persistent status effects?
Note to self: Cute Pokegirls sell books. Downloads? Whatever.
Watch the anime. Play the games. They do really attractive women ranging from cute to hot to pretty. You have Nurses Joy, Officers Jenny, Jessie and her hot friend with the big boobs, Erika, Sabrina the young adult witch, "basically every woman you meet in Sun/Moon who for whatever reason is bending over and showing you her bum at some point, I didn't know they meant Moon in that sense". Once you're old enough that you're into adult women, Pokemon is a real treat. (The anime also is a visual treat in general for having super fluid battle/movement animations, bright colours, varied palettes, environments that stand out, fancy battle effects and so on, they put a lot of effort into making everything look great, in a way that has to be explained when you say Pokemon looks gorgeous and people say "Yeah Nurse Joy is pretty bangable, so is Ashes' mom".)

So in other words, it makes perfect sense to include the non-pornographic pictures of female trainers.
We have Breeder, which lets your Pokemon fuck if you leave them alone for 4 hours and make a paltry DC 12 Pokemon Education check.
That's still four dice to reliably get it, but also I think you mean "which lets your Pokemon play together then one of them finds an egg!" (RIP play partners of Scythers everywhere)
fix Pokeballs that failed to catch Pokemon with a DC 15 check
That's still requiring five dice to pass on an average roll. And I suppose that's accurate in that you don't see people doing that in the video games (not including Yamper's fetching), but that sounds a bit crazy given you could also make Ultra Balls for cheap, or craft Super Repels or whatever.
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The Adventurer's Almanac
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Post by The Adventurer's Almanac »

Koumei wrote:So nothing that lets you straight-up be Nurse Joy, or help train your pokemon to heal each other (Heal Pulse, Aromatherapy etc)? Nothing that replicates the Pokemon Refresh mechanic where after fights you can end all persistent status effects?
No, not really. The developers hate combat healing - there used to be a Medic class that got removed for the latest edition, then brought back in errata because people just really wanted to be Nurse Joy, except it only focuses on healing people in battle. Volatile afflictions (AKA anything that isn't Burn, Frozen, Paralysis, or Poison) go away at the end of an encounter, whatever that happens to be anyway, and there are classes that can make healing items. There is one (1) class that can heal other people, and they can't teach it to their Pokemon.
Watch the anime. Play the games.
I'll pass, thank you. I've been spanking it to Pokegirls for over a decade now, I know what's going on. Gamefreak knows exactly what they're doing.

I haven't mentioned it yet, but you can get static +1 and +2 bonuses to your skills so you're rolling 4d6+3 or something like that, so a 12 isn't really as insurmountable as it seems. Also, nobody can make Ultra Balls, just Poke Balls, Great Balls, and all the different Apricorn ones, but they're cheap enough to not matter very much. FYI, the capture mechanics in this game are such a mess that the actual plan for the next iteration of this game is to just not have it at all and let people capture whatever they want after a fight is over. On one hand, I can appreciate the desire to make the game go smoother, but on the other hand, just let them fucking have everything, why don't you? :mad:
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