Avengers Endgame (Contains ALL THE SPOILERS)

Josh_Kablack · Post by **Josh_Kablack** » Mon Sep 30, 2019 7:05 pm

FrankTrollman wrote:"Nah, just kidding, none of this makes any fucking sense, we're just going to have Captain America swing Mjolnir because it's awesome."

-Username17

The showrunners also shit on that bit with their behind the scenes take claiming that Cap was just sandbagging to protect Thor's feelings when he couldn't quite lift Mjolnor in Age of Ultron. Never mind that in Age of Ultron, Cap's greatest fear was that he wouldn't have a fight anymore and by Endgame he's grown out of that and become a more worthy person.

Prak · Post by **Prak** » Wed Oct 02, 2019 1:16 am

I honestly half-believe that the Russos have no respect for what has been established in movies they didn't make.

Username17 · Post by **Username17** » Wed Oct 02, 2019 5:32 am

Prak wrote:I honestly half-believe that the Russos have no respect for what has been established in movies they didn't make.

Endgame is made with no respect for things established in movies by the Russo brothers and also even no respect for events established in itself. Consider the Soulstone. It is introduced in Infinity War in which it is found by Thanos, used in the snap, and then destroyed. That is the entirety of its affect on Timeline A. In Timeline B, Thanos leaves through the time tunnel to the future of Timeline A where he is killed before he claims the Soulstone of Timeline B.

Question: What is the logic of returning the Soulstone to Timeline B? What's the dark timeline for Timeline B that they are avoiding by returning the Soulstone? The Soulstone not only has no positive destiny in Timeline B that you would want to salvage, it has no destiny at all because Timeline B's Thanos is dead.

Speaking of the Soulstone, they spent some time telling the audience that Black Widow was totally sincerely and for reals dead with no way to bring her back because of the Soulstone sacrifice. But also too the only other person killed by that means is Gamora, who they brought back in this exact movie via the time tunnel. So um... yeah.

Endgame is a fucking three hour music video, with every moment filled with whatever the coolest thing the Russo brothers could think of, with no regard whatsoever of whether the latest cool thing shits on a cool thing or major plot factor from ten years or ten minutes ago. The only world building is franchise building - introducing characters who are penciled in to appear in future movies together and to definitively kill off characters who actors have ended their contracts. But also too, some deaths get undone even when they were declared irrevocable because the actors involved are wanted for future movies and TV shows.

-Username17

Korwin · Post by **Korwin** » Wed Oct 02, 2019 10:11 am

FrankTrollman wrote:Question: What is the logic of returning the Soulstone to Timeline B? What's the dark timeline for Timeline B that they are avoiding by returning the Soulstone? The Soulstone not only has no positive destiny in Timeline B that you would want to salvage, it has no destiny at all because Timeline B's Thanos is dead.

-Username17

Why do you think the dark timeline has anything to do with Thanos?

FrankTrollman wrote:Trump retweeted a bot that repeats his own tweets but with the word "shark" added. It's called Trump but with sharks.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... -news-host

We are truly in the worst timeline.

-Username17

Mord · Post by **Mord** » Wed Oct 02, 2019 4:55 pm

Do the Infinity Stones have to be used for any particular purpose to prevent a Bad End for a given timeline? In my 2 viewings of the film, I understood Tilda Swinton's comments about the Stones and the nature of the universe to mean "the Stones are vital to the universe itself maintaining coherence, so taking them literally dooms the universe in the timeline you created." On rewatch, it's not really clear that the movie supports my interpretation.

She did call out the Time Stone as her "chief weapon against the forces of darkness" - clearly referring to Dormammu - but for that entire conversation, Mark Ruffalo is talking about all of the Stones, while Tilda Swinton is talking about just the Time Stone. They're very clearly not talking about the same thing, and neither of them acknowledges that. It makes it impossible to really nail down just why it is that the other Stones need to be returned to their proper timeline.

Thanos' claim to have "destroyed" the Stones is also worth reading into more deeply. He claims to have "reduced them to atoms" even though it's not at all clear that the Stones are even made of atoms. If the Stones are necessary for the universe continuing to exist, it's probably more accurate to describe Thanos as having dispersed the essence of the Stones in such a way as they have to be condensed or coalesced back into coherence in some way before they could be deliberately used once again.

It's turtles all the way down, though. We're talking about the obliquely-referenced metaphysics of a universe that runs on Rule of Cool.

Kaelik · Post by **Kaelik** » Wed Oct 02, 2019 6:23 pm

I mean, thanos destroyed the stones in the main timeline, so if lack of stones is going to destroy a universe then returning them is also universe suicide.

I doubt the Hulk or Captain America is reading into theories in such an absurd way.

Wiseman · Post by **Wiseman** » Wed Oct 02, 2019 7:26 pm

Thanos reduced the stones to atoms. They still exist, it just that nobody can use them now.

hyzmarca · Post by **hyzmarca** » Thu Oct 03, 2019 12:50 am

FrankTrollman wrote: Speaking of the Soulstone, they spent some time telling the audience that Black Widow was totally sincerely and for reals dead with no way to bring her back because of the Soulstone sacrifice. But also too the only other person killed by that means is Gamora, who they brought back in this exact movie via the time tunnel. So um... yeah.

Past Gamora is a different Gamora. A time-copy, not a resurrection. She's about as close to the original as an identical twin sister with the same experiences up to 7 years ago. One would assume that resurrecting the original is impossible because the original's soul remains trapped in soulworld. I mean, we don't have confirmation of that, but it's what anyone who understands how the soul gem works from the comics would interpret it.

Foxwarrior · Post by **Foxwarrior** » Thu Oct 03, 2019 1:14 am

Wiseman wrote:Thanos reduced the stones to atoms. They still exist, it just that nobody can use them now.

Maybe they should go back, borrow the powered glove from Thanos right before he destroys the gems, take it forward, use it to restore the main timeline's stones from atoms, and then return it.

angelfromanotherpin · Post by **angelfromanotherpin** » Thu Oct 03, 2019 1:15 am

hyzmarca wrote:Past Gamora is a different Gamora. A time-copy, not a resurrection. She's about as close to the original as an identical twin sister with the same experiences up to 7 years ago.

Yes, but what's to stop them from using Pym particles to snag a time-copy of Gamora (or anyone else) from much closer to the moment of death, reducing the memory loss to like a day at most? That's really close to a proper rez because their relationships aren't meaningfully impacted.

Kaelik · Post by **Kaelik** » Thu Oct 03, 2019 1:38 am

Wiseman wrote:Thanos reduced the stones to atoms. They still exist, it just that nobody can use them now.

1) Bullshit.

2) Clearly no one in the fucking movie believed that bullshit or they would have been using the guy with the ability to shrink really small to find the tiny stones instead of to invent TIME TRAVEL to use the stones that existed in the past.

Again, you can't come up with a cockamay bullshit theory and say that solves the problem unless you can prove that the Hulk BELIEVES that cockamamy theory or else he still thinks he is committing universe suicide.

Prak · Post by **Prak** » Fri Oct 04, 2019 10:35 pm

FrankTrollman wrote:
Prak wrote:I honestly half-believe that the Russos have no respect for what has been established in movies they didn't make.
Endgame is made with no respect for things established in movies by the Russo brothers and also even no respect for events established in itself. Consider the Soulstone. It is introduced in Infinity War in which it is found by Thanos, used in the snap, and then destroyed. That is the entirety of its affect on Timeline A. In Timeline B, Thanos leaves through the time tunnel to the future of Timeline A where he is killed before he claims the Soulstone of Timeline B.

Question: What is the logic of returning the Soulstone to Timeline B? What's the dark timeline for Timeline B that they are avoiding by returning the Soulstone? The Soulstone not only has no positive destiny in Timeline B that you would want to salvage, it has no destiny at all because Timeline B's Thanos is dead.

Speaking of the Soulstone, they spent some time telling the audience that Black Widow was totally sincerely and for reals dead with no way to bring her back because of the Soulstone sacrifice. But also too the only other person killed by that means is Gamora, who they brought back in this exact movie via the time tunnel. So um... yeah.

Endgame is a fucking three hour music video, with every moment filled with whatever the coolest thing the Russo brothers could think of, with no regard whatsoever of whether the latest cool thing shits on a cool thing or major plot factor from ten years or ten minutes ago. The only world building is franchise building - introducing characters who are penciled in to appear in future movies together and to definitively kill off characters who actors have ended their contracts. But also too, some deaths get undone even when they were declared irrevocable because the actors involved are wanted for future movies and TV shows.

-Username17

Good point. They couldn't even give me more than a half-hearted bare minimum attempt at the one thing I really wanted in the movie- Tony and Rocket verbally jabbing each other as they work on a space ship. Like... one tiny jab each, and they were working on a time machine, the most bullshit of sci fi bullshit. That's all they did.

To say nothing of how they dealt with Thor's depression.