Co-Founder and Managing Partner of Roll20 steps in shit

Woot · Post by **Woot** » Wed Sep 26, 2018 5:35 pm

Exec summary: A customer of Roll20 posts some feedback on r/Roll20; gets banned. Asks why, gets told he's someone who was banned previously. Provides some evidence he's not. Roll20 stonewalls; customer goes public with his story. NolanT, "Co-Founder and Managing Partner of Roll20," fires back, stating that the customer was banned in error, but this is fine since he was being critical anyway. This proves... unpopular... with the Reddit masses. NolanT's post is now among the most downvoted posts ever on Reddit.

The customer's story:
https://www.reddit.com/r/DnD/comments/9 ... ource=link

NolanT's side:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Roll20/comment ... s/e6n4bgx/

The original banned poster:
https://www.reddit.com/r/DnD/comments/9 ... d/e6ntbbp/

shinimasu · Post by **shinimasu** » Thu Sep 27, 2018 6:51 pm

Yeah r/rpg is being flooded with advertisements for roll20s VTT competition. While a lot of these are little no name indie projects with not a lot more utility than a shared google doc, the sheer volume of them I hope at least makes Nolan more aware that he's not exactly special either.

OgreBattle · Post by **OgreBattle** » Fri Sep 28, 2018 9:43 am

"Something we've decided is that we are not Twitter, attempting to capitalize off the most amount of conflict that can be harvested for clicks"

For some reason all of the ban happy 'owners' of these niche things all talk like that

Thaluikhain · Post by **Thaluikhain** » Fri Sep 28, 2018 9:49 am

Yeah, don't have a public hissy fit at unhappy customers, that's basic. And don't dig yourself in deeper when things go bad.

Prak · Post by **Prak** » Sun Sep 30, 2018 6:44 am

Seems like Nolan may be a bit of a prick, but this whole thing is fucking stupid. There's now a youtube video of some D&D vlogger airing his personal dirty laundry with Nolan, about how he and four other dudes approached Nolan for a sponsorship and Nolan, allegedly, said "No, you're five white men. I don't need your exposure. I've got a black woman DM I've just started working with, and Roll20 is the biggest VTT out there."

Which... my only problem with that is the tokenistic nature of Nolan's apparent decision making. But honestly, I'm kinda over giving straight white cis men platforms when they could be given to other people, so...

Of course, a quick google of Nolan and... yeah, he's a white dude who very much looks like an arrogant tech prick who only cares about "diversity" in so far as it makes him money.

Basically, everyone involved in this debacle needs to suck a barrel of cocks and cool the fuck off.

DSMatticus · Post by **DSMatticus** » Sun Sep 30, 2018 8:17 am

That 100% didn't happen. That's just some shithead looking for their fifteen minutes of alt-right fame and fortune by saying an unpopular name and following it up with "LOOK, BLACK PEOPLE!" I mean, he may believe that's what happened, in the same way that everytime an alt-right shithead doesn't get everything they want with a cherry on top the first complaint is "the fucking n*****s took it from me!", but there is a 0% chance he had a conversation of any sort in which Nolan told him "eww, white guys, no thanks."

The dude you are referring to is also a bizarre moron who... actually managed to get caught making fake youtube accounts to troll other youtuber's comment sections... or something? I genuinely don't know how that was supposed to work, youtube comment sections are asstastic by default, and I genuinely don't know how you get caught doing it, because what the fuck it's the internet anonymity is the default state. It's the most baffling and asinine YouTube drama I have ever heard in my life. But the man's credibility, character, and competence are all in the vicinity of nil. The man would be less full of shit if he were a toilet in a dysentery ward.

Prak · Post by **Prak** » Sun Sep 30, 2018 9:32 am

Taking20? I have no knowledge of this fucko, so I have no clue. This is what I get when I give a white male nerd youtuber the benefit of the fucking doubt.

DSMatticus · Post by **DSMatticus** » Sun Sep 30, 2018 11:19 am

I was referring to DawnforgedCast, who started the claim. Taking20 is one of the other four people Dawncaster mentions. The two apparently work together on a bunch of shit whatever I don't really care.

To be clear, I have no definitive proof that DawnforgedCast is lying. But I do have some common fucking sense, and there is simply no fucking way that that is an accurate representation of the conversation he had with Nolan. It is a verbatim right-wing persecutory masturbation fantasy, and there is genuinely no reason for a business to have a conference call to tell them no and then go on a rant about something that will piss them off and is also straight-up goddamn legally perilous - discrimination law does not protect specific races, it protects categories, and 'race' is one such protected category - anything that looks like a statement of intent to discriminate is an invitation to get fucking sued. The exemptions we've carved out that allow Hollywood to deliberately hire white actors to play white characters and black actors to play black characters are basically a bizarre mixture of loopholes and case law - when race is a functional aspect of a business's decision we tend to allow it.

The most that happened is that they had a conference call and Nolan declined their offer because Roll20 already has absolutely fuck-off huge amounts of free promotion from randoms streaming their service, and then separately suggested to them that they diversify their group so they could reach more demos, and they decided to paraphrase that as "Nolan T. Jones didn't want to do business with us because we were five white guys." Which is true only in a transitive sense that Nolan T. Jones didn't want to do business with them because they had nothing to offer and they had nothing to offer because Roll20 already has the nerdy white guy demo by the fucking balls.

Thaluikhain · Post by **Thaluikhain** » Sun Sep 30, 2018 11:29 am

Yeah, that is exactly the sort of thing which doesn't happen at any time, and happens to be exactly the sort of thing which certain groups keep pretending happen all the time.

Count Arioch the 28th · Sun Sep 30, 2018 4:36 pm

Maybe it's because I spend most of my time on 4chan, but I had assumed that most people already knew that Roll20 was a train wreck already. I guess if you only play with people you know it's a good platform but I've seen some shit and shit accessories.

Prak · Post by **Prak** » Sun Sep 30, 2018 11:54 pm

DSMatticus wrote:The most that happened is that they had a conference call and Nolan declined their offer because Roll20 already has absolutely fuck-off huge amounts of free promotion from randoms streaming their service, and then separately suggested to them that they diversify their group so they could reach more demos, and they decided to paraphrase that as "Nolan T. Jones didn't want to do business with us because we were five white guys." Which is true only in a transitive sense that Nolan T. Jones didn't want to do business with them because they had nothing to offer and they had nothing to offer because Roll20 already has the nerdy white guy demo by the fucking balls.

Yeah, that sounds probable. This who thing is just reinforcing my hesitancy to watch new youtube stuff, particularly youtube stuff by straight white cis men.

Goddamned alt-right nerds.

Whipstitch · Post by **Whipstitch** » Mon Oct 01, 2018 2:09 am

Prak wrote: Yeah, that sounds probable. This who thing is just reinforcing my hesitancy to watch new youtube stuff, particularly youtube stuff by straight white cis men.

Saying this is kinda lame though and just adds more grist for the "We're the ones who are hated now" mill. The way better policy is simply to pay attention to where the incentives lay, always and forever.

Prak · Post by **Prak** » Mon Oct 01, 2018 4:17 am

Well, what I mean is that I'm just fucking tired of milkshake ducks and outright terrible assholes (like Unsleeved Media). And people who are a bit snowflake-y about not being allowed to be offensive who eventually graduate to outright alt right bullshit. So... when youtube recommends a new nerd thing to me, and I see it's a very conventional looking white dude, I just... I don't have the fucking energy to give them a try, especially when this is something I do for leisure and entertainment.

Koumei · Post by **Koumei** » Mon Oct 01, 2018 4:59 am

I just put my cardigan on, settle into a rocking chair and refuse to try new things. And shout at young people.

Prak · Post by **Prak** » Mon Oct 01, 2018 5:34 am

I mean. Same, more or less. I started watching a British blacksmith youtuber, and despite him being a more hipster nerd sort, and british, I'm *still* fucking waiting for the goddamned milkshake duck.

And this is to say nothing of the youtuber who opens and tries old mres and... has a fucking "Great State of Jackson" sticker on his wall. Which... well, he hasn't said anything outright alt right, or even particularly conservative, he's very "professional." But... *sigh* people who advocate for NorCal to be split into it's own state are conservatives who feel they aren't represented because of SoCal liberals.

MGuy · Post by **MGuy** » Mon Oct 01, 2018 8:50 am

I really don't care much about what the personal failings of my entertainment source are most of the time. They'd have to do something rather grim in order to earn scorn from me. I think I saw the taking20 video and it came off to me as concern trolling for roll20. "Oh if you don't let me and 'my' friends do stuff how will your business survive?????" which didn't really sound appealing to me and I left the video well before the end. I don't think dawnforged cast is interesting so I'm not losing anything if I continue to not listen to them. However, I can say that if someone like AJ Prickett said something alt righty I would likely still listen to him up until he made it either a focus for his material or he started to drift into Jewish question territory which is usually where I part ways with people both entertainment wise or in person. Which is why I don't listen to Arch's warhammer videos anymore.

It really wouldn't be a surprise to me if any one of the more non left leaning people on YouTube or elsewhere because the Alt Right has done a lot of groundwork in putting their message out there. I'm a fan of Destiny (twitch streamer only partially on Youtube) and he used to spout the same gamergate lines and has, in the last 2 plus years basically become a known target of the alt right/skeptic community because he started putting their ideas to debate. If someone simply 'doesn't' challenge some of these ideas I really wouldn't hold it against them because most people don't think too deeply about what comes off as innocuous.

I don't think being outraged by every human mistake people make and letting just that be the end result. I think that efforts toward converting as many people who have decent platforms who aren't dedicated to not having a real opinion or alt right codespeak is a better use of one's time and energy instead of spending time being frustrated about it.

It also helps a lot more in practice if you don't lead off by accusing someone of being racist, dumb, etc etc because it makes you come off as hostile and if they feel threatened or defeated after that kind of engagement then whatever people are willing to appeal to them in any way that doesn't fuck with their way of thinking becomes that much more appealing. That is if you care about changing someone's mind instead of trying to feel better about your own position of course.

Prak · Post by **Prak** » Mon Oct 01, 2018 10:36 am

Cool story, don't care. There are people who can turn nazis and klansmen. I'm not one of them. I don't have the patience, and I don't give a shit about the lives of racists. And I'm honestly not convinced that every Nazi and Klansman can be redeemed.

Basically, if I get a whiff that a youtuber is an alt righter, or supports that shitheel Logan Paul, or questions the holocaust or what-fucking-ever, I'm done. I have better shit to do than consume anything they put out, regardless of content. But then, Nazis and Klansmen actively want people like me dead, I suppose it's different if you're not a queer trans femme Satanist of Polish descent.

The extent to which I care to hear about fuckwads like Jeremy Hambly is to hear about them getting knocked the fuck out at game conventions.

MGuy · Post by **MGuy** » Mon Oct 01, 2018 2:00 pm

No one is asking you to care. I certainly am not going to up and try to squeeze in a message to Taking20 to change anything they are doing, but it's also a position I don't feel strongly about because its just some dude with a surface level understanding of racial issues. I don't see what he said as threatening so I personally don't care. You seem rather put off by it and I figured if you're really frustrated about how things are with him (or people that share similar mindset) then a better use of your time would be to attempt to convert them over to your side instead of huffing about it. If instead, just being indignant and self righteous about it makes you feel better then alright, that's fine too. I was listening to a talk recently about how identifying 'enemies' and speaking about it with others is a kind of beneficial social habit humans like to do for various reasons so I can see the value in doing just that. My words were more aimed at making an ally out of a potential enemy or some such thing. If that's not your thing I wouldn't blame you.

Count Arioch the 28th · Mon Oct 01, 2018 8:06 pm

I find it good policy to assume nerds are shitty people until they prove otherwise.

Count Arioch the 28th · Mon Oct 01, 2018 8:10 pm

Prak wrote:
The extent to which I care to hear about fuckwads like Jeremy Hambly is to hear about them getting knocked the fuck out at game conventions.

To be fair, the only witness reports I've been able to find was the dude gave Hambly a couple of open-handed girlyman slaps and Hambly claimed he was horribly wounded on his channel.

Prak · Post by **Prak** » Mon Oct 01, 2018 10:24 pm

Count Arioch the 28th wrote:
Prak wrote:
The extent to which I care to hear about fuckwads like Jeremy Hambly is to hear about them getting knocked the fuck out at game conventions.
To be fair, the only witness reports I've been able to find was the dude gave Hambly a couple of open-handed girlyman slaps and Hambly claimed he was horribly wounded on his channel.

That makes it all the more hilarious.