This is going to be a WIP thread for a "Heartbreaker" I'm working on. It's going to be a DnD-Like that focuses on levels 1-10. Later, 10+ may be developed, but it will require mass combat rules and such.
Design Goals:
-Ease of play. The game must deliver tactical and roleplaying depth, while not being complicated for the sake of complexity.
-Math that Works. The game math must work, and it can't be too complicated. Minimize RNG breakage.
-Minimizing Bad Choices. Try to make classes structured in a way where trap options are minimized and creating an optimized character is quick and painless.
-Kitchen Sink. The System must have ways to adapt to the ever expanding material of a kitchen sink roleplaying game. Classplosion, Multiclassings, Monster Classes, etc.
-Narrow Classes. Classes are cohesive concepts and there are no generalists.
-CR that works. Appropriate monster classes and level appropriate challenge. Monsters and PC classes will be designed with cohesion and balance in mind.
-No excess wordage. Small spells, easy to read classes.
-Working Skills. A skill system that works without overwhelming complexity.
Current Ideas:
Using a lot of Frank's Stuff from the Demon Haunted World thread.
5 Level Basic Classes
5 Level Advanced Classes
10 level monster classes (Brute, Harrier, Stalker,
Classes will have multiclass versions that will allow you be a Ranger/Rogue or an Ogre/Wizard, etc.
Stat and Defenses rework.
Another DnD Heartbreaker
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DenizenKane
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Another DnD Heartbreaker
Last edited by DenizenKane on Wed Jun 27, 2018 11:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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JonSetanta
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Will it have Dodge rolls instead of AC?
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OgreBattle
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Will the base classes advance to any advanced class or is it certain ones?
When you say specialists instead of generalists, will there be problems of certain specialist party compositions not handling all D&D challenges?
I like the monster classes that can multiclass. How are you doing multiclassing, is it "I am a lvl 10 Ranger/Ice Mage" or "I am a Ranger5/ice Mage5"?
When you say specialists instead of generalists, will there be problems of certain specialist party compositions not handling all D&D challenges?
I like the monster classes that can multiclass. How are you doing multiclassing, is it "I am a lvl 10 Ranger/Ice Mage" or "I am a Ranger5/ice Mage5"?
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DenizenKane
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You can advance to any advanced class.
When you hit level 6, you leave your basic class behind completely, and you get a whole new ability package. This allows you to do lots of cool stuff with your new advanced class, and keeps there from being balance and complexity problems with lower tier classes mixing.
Classes should be able to handle most problems, but in their own way. Ideally, all classes will have their strong and weak points, but they should never be shut out of a reasonably designed challenge. At higher levels strong and weak points should be less obvious as characters have more abilities overall.
I think part of the solution to that is by building more baseline abilities for characters into the system. Stop doing dumb things like feat taxing two-weapon fighting, and just make it a way you fight, or give whatever class needs it a bonus feat.
Multiclassing is handled by each class having a multiclass version of itself, that still gives out level appropriate stuff, just not as much as the full class.
So, yeah, a character could be a Level 5 Ranger/Ice Mage, but when they hit 6, they must switch to an advanced class. Maybe there is something thematically similar like Frost Warden, so the character becomes a Level 6 Frost Warden when leveling, leaving behind the old class.
When you hit level 6, you leave your basic class behind completely, and you get a whole new ability package. This allows you to do lots of cool stuff with your new advanced class, and keeps there from being balance and complexity problems with lower tier classes mixing.
Classes should be able to handle most problems, but in their own way. Ideally, all classes will have their strong and weak points, but they should never be shut out of a reasonably designed challenge. At higher levels strong and weak points should be less obvious as characters have more abilities overall.
I think part of the solution to that is by building more baseline abilities for characters into the system. Stop doing dumb things like feat taxing two-weapon fighting, and just make it a way you fight, or give whatever class needs it a bonus feat.
Multiclassing is handled by each class having a multiclass version of itself, that still gives out level appropriate stuff, just not as much as the full class.
So, yeah, a character could be a Level 5 Ranger/Ice Mage, but when they hit 6, they must switch to an advanced class. Maybe there is something thematically similar like Frost Warden, so the character becomes a Level 6 Frost Warden when leveling, leaving behind the old class.
So, it's not that there's a specific Ranger/Ice Mage multiclass, but rather Ranger has both a full-power version for single class characters and a half-power version for multiclass characters, and multiclassing lets you take two such half-power classes at once?
That's different.
That's different.
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OgreBattle
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DenizenKane
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Dodge Roll instead of AC? Probably not.
How saves are going to work at all still isn't decided.
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Yeah, the plan is for Advanced classes to be able to multiclass too.
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Well, it would be about consistency.
Basic classes would have a certain structure that makes them 5 level classes, and becoming level 6 is supposed to be a big deal.
Certain basic classes like the Rogue, don't really have Rogue abilities that can go above level 5, so instead of trying to stretch the realm of what a Rogue would be expected to do, it makes more sense to cut off all classes that make sense without Phlebotinum at level 5. Instead the Rogue becomes whatever at level 6, but if he wants to continue being rogue-like he can pick the Shadow Dancer or Arcane Trickster classes.
It is possible that an Ice Mage class could carry on to level 10, but instead that would be an "Ice Magelike" Advanced class that might feature similar but better abilities than that of what the basic class can do, its a win all around. And, say the playstyle of the campaign is headed a certain direction, this allows players to make a big playstyle choice mid-campaign to more fit what's going on.
Also, the idea is that the Advanced class would be frontloaded with 6 levels worth of abilties, all of which immediately are supposed to be level appropriate.
How saves are going to work at all still isn't decided.
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Yeah, the plan is for Advanced classes to be able to multiclass too.
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Well, it would be about consistency.
Basic classes would have a certain structure that makes them 5 level classes, and becoming level 6 is supposed to be a big deal.
Certain basic classes like the Rogue, don't really have Rogue abilities that can go above level 5, so instead of trying to stretch the realm of what a Rogue would be expected to do, it makes more sense to cut off all classes that make sense without Phlebotinum at level 5. Instead the Rogue becomes whatever at level 6, but if he wants to continue being rogue-like he can pick the Shadow Dancer or Arcane Trickster classes.
It is possible that an Ice Mage class could carry on to level 10, but instead that would be an "Ice Magelike" Advanced class that might feature similar but better abilities than that of what the basic class can do, its a win all around. And, say the playstyle of the campaign is headed a certain direction, this allows players to make a big playstyle choice mid-campaign to more fit what's going on.
Also, the idea is that the Advanced class would be frontloaded with 6 levels worth of abilties, all of which immediately are supposed to be level appropriate.
None of that tells me anything. I still don't know what You believe the higher tier classes should look like other than it has to have higher level abilities and I don't know what that means for your game. You aren't making dungeons and dragons I think. You're making fantasy heartbreaker. If x class doesn't have higher level abilities you're not tied down such that you can't just 'give' higher level classes appropriate abilities. That would keep things consistent if you desired. The line between fighter and not fighter is whatever you decide it to be once you unshackle yourself from having to carry past burdens from d+d proper.
So I ask again, what do you imagine is the effective difference between. Frost Warden and ice Mage such that they need to be two different classes? If you want ranger to be able to have ice magic you could decouple ice magic from class and make it a thing you can just get or if you want ranger (woods fighter with survival) into just a skill and combat option with something like optional feats/talents/whatever. Why do you believe that ice mage necessarily needs to be a different thing than ice warden and, l guess more importantly to me, what exactly separates one tier from another? What do these power tiers look like in your mind? Preferably in something less vague than "higher tier" or "more powerful"
So I ask again, what do you imagine is the effective difference between. Frost Warden and ice Mage such that they need to be two different classes? If you want ranger to be able to have ice magic you could decouple ice magic from class and make it a thing you can just get or if you want ranger (woods fighter with survival) into just a skill and combat option with something like optional feats/talents/whatever. Why do you believe that ice mage necessarily needs to be a different thing than ice warden and, l guess more importantly to me, what exactly separates one tier from another? What do these power tiers look like in your mind? Preferably in something less vague than "higher tier" or "more powerful"