The Gaming Den Forum Index The Gaming Den
Welcome to the Gaming Den.
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Google
 Search WWW   Search tgdmb.com 
What are the biggest things DnD 5e needs to be passable?
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    The Gaming Den Forum Index -> In My Humble Opinion...
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Pixels
Knight


Joined: 14 Jun 2010
Posts: 384

PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 6:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

RobbyPants wrote:
maglag wrote:
In 3e it takes a single CR 3 core monster to take out the Tarrasque itself.

Which monster is that? My first thought was the shadow, but the tarrasque is immune to energy damage.
There are several CR <= 3 creatures that are immune to the Tarrasque's attacks (mostly because they're either incorporeal or swarms) or can hover out of reach. Actually being able to kill it at that CR is challenging though. Shadows and Allips don't work, a Mummy's disease attack doesn't work, no damage is nearly high enough to overcome the DR or regeneration. A cockatrice could petrify the Tarrasque but it would take a natural 20 attack roll followed by a natural 1 saving throw.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
deaddmwalking
Duke


Joined: 21 May 2012
Posts: 1542

PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 6:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

So 1 in 400 Cockatrice attacks kill a Tarrasque? There's no 'I'm a boss monster so I choose to auto-save?' I mean, if 1/400 attacks work AFTER the 5th 'auto-save', that's probably a lot different because the Tarrasque probably won't be attacked by 6 different Cockatrices on a given day...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
angelfromanotherpin
King


Joined: 07 Mar 2008
Posts: 7384

PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 6:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

1 in 400 cockatrice attacks petrify a Tarrasque, but to deliver that attack they have to survive a Tarrasque's attack-of-opportunity for closing inside its natural reach, which is another 1-in-20 chance.

I'm pretty sure maglag is talking about the allip, which does ability drain (and not ability damage which the Tarrasque is immune to).
_________________
"Now that we've determined that up to π angels can dance on the head of a pin, how do we determine the specific number (or fraction) of angels dancing?"
"What if angels from another pin engage them in melee combat?"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Pixels
Knight


Joined: 14 Jun 2010
Posts: 384

PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 9:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Oh, I guess allips do work. Some wire in my brain got crossed and assumed that energy drain and ability drain were the same thing.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
RobbyPants
Prince


Joined: 06 Aug 2008
Posts: 4427

PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2017 12:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Pixels wrote:
Oh, I guess allips do work. Some wire in my brain got crossed and assumed that energy drain and ability drain were the same thing.
Ah, yes. I was remembering their 4 HD and misremembering them as CR 4 instead of 3. I had to use some to take down a dragon, once.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
maglag
Duke


Joined: 02 Apr 2015
Posts: 1104

PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2017 12:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

angelfromanotherpin wrote:

I'm pretty sure maglag is talking about the allip, which does ability drain (and not ability damage which the Tarrasque is immune to).


Correct, have an internet cookie!

Extra lulzy because in 3e the tarrasque has 0% chances of victory. The best case scenario is a permanent draw if the allip rolls natural 1s on their attacks forever, but otherwise the godzilla wannabe is powerless in their supposed field of expertise (melee) against a mere CR 3 monster from the same book.
_________________
FrankTrollman wrote:

Actually, our blood banking system is set up exactly the way you'd want it to be if you were a secret vampire conspiracy.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Lago PARANOIA
Invincible Overlord


Joined: 25 Sep 2008
Posts: 10146

PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2017 5:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

"What's the lowest CR you can kill a tarrasque at" is kind of a dumb parlor debate anyway.

I'm more troubled by how 5E D&D has a PC capable of casting 9th level spells at CR 17, minimum, while you can find CR13 creatures capable of casting 9th level spells. It's extra-ironic because simplified 5E NPCs don't have all of the class tchotchke that PCs do but by-and-large operate by the same rules. However, the stuff they don't have (to justify the lower CR for their super-spellcasting or attack routine) tends to not make up for the reduction in CR. And even then, they often get non-PC abilities that more than make up for their lack of class features. The CR4 Hobgoblin Devastator from Volo's is probably the most cogent example (they get a feature that adds 2d6 to all spell damage rolls, no question), but it's far from the only one.
_________________
Josh Kablack wrote:
Your freedom to make rulings up on the fly is in direct conflict with my freedom to interact with an internally consistent narrative. Your freedom to run/play a game without needing to understand a complex rule system is in direct conflict with my freedom to play a character whose abilities and flaws function as I intended within that ruleset. Your freedom to add and change rules in the middle of the game is in direct conflict with my ability to understand that rules system before I decided whether or not to join your game.

In short, your entire post is dismissive of not merely my intelligence, but my agency. And I don't mean agency as a player within one of your games, I mean my agency as a person. You do not want me to be informed when I make the fundamental decisions of deciding whether to join your game or buying your rules system.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Fenrisulfr
1st Level


Joined: 22 Sep 2009
Posts: 35

PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2017 7:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

maglag wrote:
Correct, have an internet cookie!

Extra lulzy because in 3e the tarrasque has 0% chances of victory. The best case scenario is a permanent draw if the allip rolls natural 1s on their attacks forever, but otherwise the godzilla wannabe is powerless in their supposed field of expertise (melee) against a mere CR 3 monster from the same book.


The tarrasque has a 50% chance to hit the allip with any given attack, and a single bite attack is pretty likely to kill it even with 10 or 15 points of temp hp. It's still pretty much a coin flip which isn't a ringing endorsement of WotC design, but it's not quite as dire as you're saying.


Last edited by Fenrisulfr on Tue Oct 10, 2017 7:15 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
angelfromanotherpin
King


Joined: 07 Mar 2008
Posts: 7384

PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2017 7:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

The Tarrasque's natural weapons count as magical (indeed, epic) for the purposes of overcoming damage reduction, but not for striking incorporeal, so the general 'immunity to all nonmagical attack forms' kicks in.
_________________
"Now that we've determined that up to π angels can dance on the head of a pin, how do we determine the specific number (or fraction) of angels dancing?"
"What if angels from another pin engage them in melee combat?"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Fenrisulfr
1st Level


Joined: 22 Sep 2009
Posts: 35

PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2017 7:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

... Huh. I'd never noticed that before. So the tarrasque is indeed helpless against any incorporeal foe. Goddammit WotC.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Zaranthan
Knight


Joined: 29 May 2012
Posts: 333

PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2017 7:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Don't forget anything with a fly speed and a ranged attack.
_________________
Koumei wrote:
...is the dead guy posthumously at fault for his own death and, due to the felony murder law, his own murderer?

hyzmarca wrote:
A palace made out of poop is much more impressive than one made out of gold. Stinkier, but more impressive. One is an ostentatious display of wealth. The other is a miraculous engineering feat.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Chamomile
Prince


Joined: 03 May 2011
Posts: 3833

PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2017 8:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

You'd think giving Godzilla a magical breath weapon would be an obvious thing to do, but apparently you'd be wrong.
_________________
I have a blog
Also a Discord channel
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
nockermensch
Duke


Joined: 06 Jan 2012
Posts: 1596
Location: Rio: the Janeiro

PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2017 9:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

A proper Civilization wrecking abomination (like the Tarrasque's fluff say it is) needs at very least the properties of a ghost touch weapon/armor and some kind of godzilla breath. Because of course the Civilizations it's supposed to be threatening have access to both ethereal monsters and flight. This should be obvious, but for some reason, it isn't.

The many printed versions of the Tarrasque are like Exhibit #1 of how the D&D designers don't know their own game.
_________________
@ @ Nockermensch

Koumei wrote:
After all, in Firefox you keep tabs in your browser, but in SovietPutin's Russia, browser keeps tabs on you.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Voss
Prince


Joined: 07 Mar 2008
Posts: 3683

PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2017 9:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Lago PARANOIA wrote:
"What's the lowest CR you can kill a tarrasque at" is kind of a dumb parlor debate anyway.

I'm more troubled by how 5E D&D has a PC capable of casting 9th level spells at CR 17, minimum, while you can find CR13 creatures capable of casting 9th level spells. It's extra-ironic because simplified 5E NPCs don't have all of the class tchotchke that PCs do but by-and-large operate by the same rules. However, the stuff they don't have (to justify the lower CR for their super-spellcasting or attack routine) tends to not make up for the reduction in CR. And even then, they often get non-PC abilities that more than make up for their lack of class features. The CR4 Hobgoblin Devastator from Volo's is probably the most cogent example (they get a feature that adds 2d6 to all spell damage rolls, no question), but it's far from the only one.


It is weird. The published CR system takes little notice of spells at all, and the Archmage in the MM is the perfect example of the problem you mention. It's CR13 17th level wizard, and the only reason it doesn't flatten thirteenth level parties is the spell selection is made of ass. A couple evocations and huge pool of defensive spells it can't stack. A couple spell swaps, and it would brutalize parties.

They just don't seem to understand how abilities work, either. A cockatrice is far more dangerous than basilisks or medusas despite the big CR gulf (cocks are CR 1/4), simply because of how their abilities work. For the bigger monsters, their gaze attack just means they have a defensive advantage- you have to take disadvantage on strikes to be immune to turn to stone (and getting any advantage negates that penalty, so it isn't a big deal). But cockatrices force saves with every hit, so without alphastriking and burning them all down before they act, any fight with cockatrices is a huge risk regardless of level, even with the double save bullshit. Every villain should have attack cockatrices on hoof for the huge psychological threat they are.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Lago PARANOIA
Invincible Overlord


Joined: 25 Sep 2008
Posts: 10146

PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2017 9:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

The CR system is literally just centered around monster HP, AC, and attack bonuses. It's why mages with PC casting are always under-CR (A CR4 Warlock of the Archfey can use Conjure Fey for a CR 6 creature, uh huh) and why bruiser NPCs meant to represent martial classes are over-CR.
_________________
Josh Kablack wrote:
Your freedom to make rulings up on the fly is in direct conflict with my freedom to interact with an internally consistent narrative. Your freedom to run/play a game without needing to understand a complex rule system is in direct conflict with my freedom to play a character whose abilities and flaws function as I intended within that ruleset. Your freedom to add and change rules in the middle of the game is in direct conflict with my ability to understand that rules system before I decided whether or not to join your game.

In short, your entire post is dismissive of not merely my intelligence, but my agency. And I don't mean agency as a player within one of your games, I mean my agency as a person. You do not want me to be informed when I make the fundamental decisions of deciding whether to join your game or buying your rules system.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Lago PARANOIA
Invincible Overlord


Joined: 25 Sep 2008
Posts: 10146

PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2017 10:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

At any rate, I don't see anything salvageable in 5E D&D compared to 3E D&D. There isn't, unlike 4E D&D, anything even particularly new from the edition other than 'bounded accuracy'. If they were going to do a 6E D&D and had the game branch entirely off of 3E D&D, no one would even know as long as they put in some insignificant ribbon bullshit like copypasting the 5E D&D spellcaster charter, the expanded races, and subclasses.
_________________
Josh Kablack wrote:
Your freedom to make rulings up on the fly is in direct conflict with my freedom to interact with an internally consistent narrative. Your freedom to run/play a game without needing to understand a complex rule system is in direct conflict with my freedom to play a character whose abilities and flaws function as I intended within that ruleset. Your freedom to add and change rules in the middle of the game is in direct conflict with my ability to understand that rules system before I decided whether or not to join your game.

In short, your entire post is dismissive of not merely my intelligence, but my agency. And I don't mean agency as a player within one of your games, I mean my agency as a person. You do not want me to be informed when I make the fundamental decisions of deciding whether to join your game or buying your rules system.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
maglag
Duke


Joined: 02 Apr 2015
Posts: 1104

PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2017 11:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Lago PARANOIA wrote:

I'm more troubled by how 5E D&D has a PC capable of casting 9th level spells at CR 17, minimum, while you can find CR13 creatures capable of casting 9th level spells.


Efreeti (9th level spell at CR 8) and Nightmare (9th level spells at CR 5) from 3e say hi.
_________________
FrankTrollman wrote:

Actually, our blood banking system is set up exactly the way you'd want it to be if you were a secret vampire conspiracy.


Last edited by maglag on Tue Oct 10, 2017 11:31 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Lago PARANOIA
Invincible Overlord


Joined: 25 Sep 2008
Posts: 10146

PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 2:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Please stop being glib. The efreeti can only give wishes to nongenies. It will not meaningfully be a factor unless the DM is specifically trying to screw you. The Nightmare's astral projection is more troublesome, but it doesn't translate into TPK like being able to cast Wish or Simulacrum. Just 'ha ha you didn't get me, sucker'.

5E D&D underrates every NPC with PC-like spellcasting constantly. Take a look at their spell lists of any and every caster in the MM, Tales of the Yawning Portal, or Volo's that has at least third level spells. They are always undercounted by at least 3 CR points relative to PCs. And some of them, like the various Warlocks of X and Hobgoblin Devastator, get additional abilities on top of spellcasting that's not reflected in their undercounted CR.
_________________
Josh Kablack wrote:
Your freedom to make rulings up on the fly is in direct conflict with my freedom to interact with an internally consistent narrative. Your freedom to run/play a game without needing to understand a complex rule system is in direct conflict with my freedom to play a character whose abilities and flaws function as I intended within that ruleset. Your freedom to add and change rules in the middle of the game is in direct conflict with my ability to understand that rules system before I decided whether or not to join your game.

In short, your entire post is dismissive of not merely my intelligence, but my agency. And I don't mean agency as a player within one of your games, I mean my agency as a person. You do not want me to be informed when I make the fundamental decisions of deciding whether to join your game or buying your rules system.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Voss
Prince


Joined: 07 Mar 2008
Posts: 3683

PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 5:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Well, given the way the CR system is supposed to work, the principle that a CR 13 creature can cast higher level spells isn't terrible (as they have to match a 4 person party).

The problem is, as with a lot of things, they overblow the difference to a ridiculous degree. CR numbers are so ridiculous on regular basis that they might as well not exist. It reminds me of the encounter advice for 2nd edition- where the important factor in the encounter table is the rarity of the monster (and the terrain), and there is a loose table corresponding critter XP values to dungeon levels (and sort of PC levels) and it stops at 10.

But what's really required is the DM knows the monsters backwards and forwards and knows the capabilities of the party and can keep things from getting too easy or too hard... which frankly most can't do.


Last edited by Voss on Wed Oct 11, 2017 5:25 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
FrankTrollman
Serious Badass


Joined: 07 Mar 2008
Posts: 27023

PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 6:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

The issue that there are various specific monsters in 3rd edition with specific abilities that match up weird is an ultimately minor issue. The Shadow Over The Sun is a problem that is actually quite easy to handwave away because there aren't a lot of incorpreal or spawning monsters. The DM can look at the Shadow and the chicken farm and just say "No." and move the fuck on with the game.

The fact that there is nothing in 5th edition that can win a standup fight with a couple dozen randos with crossbows is a much bigger problem. The fundamental question of why we rely on heroes at all remains unanswered. The guards of any random market town can put down any kraken, demon, or dragon that causes trouble. What are 5th edition protagonists even for?

-Frank
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Lago PARANOIA
Invincible Overlord


Joined: 25 Sep 2008
Posts: 10146

PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 9:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

FrankTrollman wrote:
The fact that there is nothing in 5th edition that can win a standup fight with a couple dozen randos with crossbows is a much bigger problem. The fundamental question of why we rely on heroes at all remains unanswered.
Judging by the fact that the only people who CAN consistently stand up to a couple dozen randos with crossbows are mid-to-high level PCs or monsters with PC-like abilities, I think that the endgame of 5E D&D heroism isn't law enforcement but the brute accumulation of power until you become an invincible horror movie character like Freddie.

While randos with crossbows can take down Pit Fiends, an arbitrarily large number of them can't exactly take down reasonably smart spellcaster PCs/NPCs. There's just too many counter-measures if you dig through the PHB. True Polymorph into something immune to weapons, Demiplane + Clone for infinite one-ups, Astral Projection for risk-free adventuring, etc. It doesn't actually matter that the Mongol Archer can move 180 ft. away and pick off a target with disadvantage with their longbows; the adventurer can just keep stalking them until they die. They run out of arrows, they or the horse gets tired, they run into bad terrain, they get flanked by a third party or by allies, or the adventurer finds their community or camp and torches it until the Mongol Archer is forced to confront them. The 'battle' just lasts for hours or even days instead of seconds.

Once we establish that, the anti-Mongol Archer problem goes from an action adventure scene to a slasher movie as a small team of adventurers makes themselves immune to the rebel alliance and picks them off one-by-one over a period of weeks. The reason why society trains up adventurers, at least spellcasting ones, is to speed up the process of killing Mongol Archers.
_________________
Josh Kablack wrote:
Your freedom to make rulings up on the fly is in direct conflict with my freedom to interact with an internally consistent narrative. Your freedom to run/play a game without needing to understand a complex rule system is in direct conflict with my freedom to play a character whose abilities and flaws function as I intended within that ruleset. Your freedom to add and change rules in the middle of the game is in direct conflict with my ability to understand that rules system before I decided whether or not to join your game.

In short, your entire post is dismissive of not merely my intelligence, but my agency. And I don't mean agency as a player within one of your games, I mean my agency as a person. You do not want me to be informed when I make the fundamental decisions of deciding whether to join your game or buying your rules system.


Last edited by Lago PARANOIA on Wed Oct 11, 2017 9:46 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
OgreBattle
King


Joined: 03 Sep 2011
Posts: 5046

PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 9:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Do high end monsters have ways to AoE mobs of archers?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
maglag
Duke


Joined: 02 Apr 2015
Posts: 1104

PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 10:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

FrankTrollman wrote:
The issue that there are various specific monsters in 3rd edition with specific abilities that match up weird is an ultimately minor issue. The Shadow Over The Sun is a problem that is actually quite easy to handwave away because there aren't a lot of incorpreal or spawning monsters. The DM can look at the Shadow and the chicken farm and just say "No." and move the fuck on with the game.

The fact that there is nothing in 5th edition that can win a standup fight with a couple dozen randos with crossbows is a much bigger problem. The fundamental question of why we rely on heroes at all remains unanswered. The guards of any random market town can put down any kraken, demon, or dragon that causes trouble. What are 5th edition protagonists even for?

-Frank


To hunt down the demons and dragons and krakens that use hit and run tactics instead of suicide charging fortress markets.

In one side this allows markets to exist instead of the campaign being a wasteland dominated by demons and dragons because those were already there before the first humanoid gained a level.

In the other side your hobo horde will get themselves killed if they try to hunt down the dragon demon to their volcano lair. You need to be heat resistant and be able to fight in tight corridors full of turns. Probably filled with traps. Dungeons probably.
_________________
FrankTrollman wrote:

Actually, our blood banking system is set up exactly the way you'd want it to be if you were a secret vampire conspiracy.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Lago PARANOIA
Invincible Overlord


Joined: 25 Sep 2008
Posts: 10146

PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 10:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Off of the top of my head, here are some ways that PC spellcasters can deal with Mongol Archers:

An illusionist wizard can cast Mirage Arcana (which fills a 1-mile cube) and use Malleable Illusions + Illusory Reality to throw all of the Mongol Archers into a lake or a labyrinth.

Planar Binding is back baby. It's good again! Awoooou (wolf howl). You can use Conjure Elemental to create Invisible Stalkers or Earth Elementals and have them ambush said archers. If you're a druid, you can use Summon Woodland Beings to create a large number of Ambush Pixies to go invisible and pick off the Mongol Archers with Sleep or Polymorph.

You have Dream to kill off the Mongol Archers from your safe hidey-hole. This will take a long time, but you can use Scrying or whatever to identify the Rebel Leaders and kill off the low-level ones.

Who says you can't get in on the Mongol Archer action? You're a bard and you have Animal Shapes AND Animate/Create Undead. You can Animal Shape mounts out of half (or fewer) of the undead, load up the rest with Longbows, and enjoy the show. If you have Wish you can use that instead.

Or if you don't want Mongol Archer goodness, you can just be lazy use Animal Shapes for a flock of Giant Eagles, or even better, Quetzalcoatus. They have a fat enough HP stack to catch up to any horse archers after a few of them go down. And Animal Shapes doesn't have an upward limit on creatures.

You can also use Sympathy to get the Mongol Archers to cluster. The 'draws people in' effect of Sympathy works by range OR by sight. So dust off your Monty Python references, and you basically do this:

_________________
Josh Kablack wrote:
Your freedom to make rulings up on the fly is in direct conflict with my freedom to interact with an internally consistent narrative. Your freedom to run/play a game without needing to understand a complex rule system is in direct conflict with my freedom to play a character whose abilities and flaws function as I intended within that ruleset. Your freedom to add and change rules in the middle of the game is in direct conflict with my ability to understand that rules system before I decided whether or not to join your game.

In short, your entire post is dismissive of not merely my intelligence, but my agency. And I don't mean agency as a player within one of your games, I mean my agency as a person. You do not want me to be informed when I make the fundamental decisions of deciding whether to join your game or buying your rules system.


Last edited by Lago PARANOIA on Wed Oct 11, 2017 10:43 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Lago PARANOIA
Invincible Overlord


Joined: 25 Sep 2008
Posts: 10146

PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 10:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

5E Bandit King: With our 5000-man strong band of mounted archers, there's nothing even the hordes of hell can do!
Bandits: Huzzah!
15th level Illusionist Wizard: That's nice. Hey, I need your entire army of elves, humans, half-orcs, halflings, and dwarves to stare at these five Major Images of me banging your wives for the next hour.
Bandits: Sweet. That could be cool. Whoa, is that a Sympathy spell? Gnarly.
[Illusionist Wizard casually casts Mirage Arcana over the next ten minutes to create a ravine to dump all of the bandits into.]
Goblin Bandit: At least me and Gobbo Bobbo lived.
[Wizard uses Malleable Illusions to dump the rest of the goblins into a new ravine.]
_________________
Josh Kablack wrote:
Your freedom to make rulings up on the fly is in direct conflict with my freedom to interact with an internally consistent narrative. Your freedom to run/play a game without needing to understand a complex rule system is in direct conflict with my freedom to play a character whose abilities and flaws function as I intended within that ruleset. Your freedom to add and change rules in the middle of the game is in direct conflict with my ability to understand that rules system before I decided whether or not to join your game.

In short, your entire post is dismissive of not merely my intelligence, but my agency. And I don't mean agency as a player within one of your games, I mean my agency as a person. You do not want me to be informed when I make the fundamental decisions of deciding whether to join your game or buying your rules system.


Last edited by Lago PARANOIA on Wed Oct 11, 2017 11:01 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    The Gaming Den Forum Index -> In My Humble Opinion... All times are GMT
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Page 3 of 4

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum




Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group