The Gaming Den

maglag wrote:Last time I checked, one of your cards forcing your opponent to spend two cards to deal with it is a good deal, in particular when it threatens a 3 turn clock by itself if they fail to deal with it. Roflstomping control decks is extra value on top.

They don't really spend two cards though. They have to leave two creatures back, but a typical midrange creature is a 4/4 these days. If Carnage Tyrant actually attacks, he gets double-blocked and kills only 1. In the midrange mirror, Carnage Tyrant is a lot less threatening than Rhonas or Bristling Hydra and costs 6 mana.

The fact that Carnage Tyrant is a brutally efficient card against Blue/X control decks is the only reason anyone should give a single damn about him. It's an anti-control Sideboard card. If Grixis Control becomes a top playrate deck, Carnage Tyrant will justify its current cost as a sideboard card for all Green midrange and Control decks to bring in against it (and boy are there a lot of those, since Jund, Sultai, Temur and 4C Temur are all major decks).

-Username17

Carnage Tyrant isn't even good vs the most popular blue control deck because that's the U/W list which plays both Fumigate and Settle the Wreckage.

FrankTrollman wrote:

maglag wrote:Last time I checked, one of your cards forcing your opponent to spend two cards to deal with it is a good deal, in particular when it threatens a 3 turn clock by itself if they fail to deal with it. Roflstomping control decks is extra value on top.

They don't really spend two cards though. They have to leave two creatures back, but a typical midrange creature is a 4/4 these days. If Carnage Tyrant actually attacks, he gets double-blocked and kills only 1. In the midrange mirror, Carnage Tyrant is a lot less threatening than Rhonas or Bristling Hydra and costs 6 mana.

Even assuming your opponent has a bunch of 4/4 when carnage tyrant enters the board, it can still block and eat any one of them.

So if you're holding two back, you need at least another two 4/4 attacking to get any damage through, for a total of 4 4/4s on the board all ready to attack. I find that somewhat unlikely. And even if you do, one of them dies and then the big dino charges and you need to sacrifice another creature in the double chump block.

Bristling hydra meanwhile dies to any other 4/4 and Rhonas just stands there looking regal if you can't keep another creature in the board.

maglag wrote:Even assuming your opponent has a bunch of 4/4 when carnage tyrant enters the board, it can still block and eat any one of them.

No it can't. Most cards that people play have evasion or provide value for entering the battlefield or have meaningful combat abilities or some combination of those. The number of midrange threats that Carnage Tyrant can block and kill is actually pretty small. The number of midrange threats that Carnage Tyrant can profitably attack into a potential double block from is even lower.

If your opponent plays Glory Bringer on Turn 5 and starts beating face, playing Carnage Tyrant on Turn 6 does not stop their clock and it does not present a faster clock. If your opponent plays Scarab God on Turn 5 and starts eternalizing zombies, playing Carnage Tyrant on Turn 6 does not stop the value train and cannot profitably attack into the enemy board.

If your opponent plays Oketra or Rhonas and can turn them on, they just beat your Carnage Tyrant in combat and spent a lot less mana to get there.

If your opponent plays Bristling Hydra on Turn 4, they need to come up with 3 energy to trade with your T6 Carnage Tyrant. They need to come up with 9 energy of have a Winding Constrictor to just fucking eat your Carnage Tyrant.

The only things that Carnage Tyrant actually goes over the top of is "some of the Ramunap Red creatures." Although even then, Red's top end isn't overly concerned with Carnage Tyrant. Hazoret blocks Carnage Tyrant and holds it to 3 damage and cracks back for 5 or double blocks with an expendable Bomat Courier and kills it. Glory Bringer straight wins the race as previously noted.

How many threats can you name from any midrange deck that people actually play that Carnage Tyrant matches up well against? It has to be able to profitably block and profitably attack, because it's a 6 cost creature without Haste. And that is a very very short list.

-Username17

Yeah, energy producers that are also energy outlets is strong juju. Midrange Energy is so good in part because Hydras are actually pretty content with stockpiling energy and staring at a board stall for a turn if need be while threatening to go hexproof and grow in response to removal. There's things out there that can punish such antics, obviously, but Carnage Tyrant isn't on that list.

I'm pretty sure the only reason Carnage Tyrant is still expensive is because a ton of casual players with deep wallets are excited by it. It reminds me of Glimpse the Unthinkable's price.