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[MTG] Ixalan
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Prak
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 4:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

They are, but it's going to be an Un-type card, only acquirable at Hascon-

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FrankTrollman wrote:
In Soviet Russia, cosmic horror is the default state.

You should gain sanity for finding out that the problems of a region are because there are fucking monsters there.
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FrankTrollman
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 1:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Surgo wrote:
I play EDH online rather than any kind of standard magic and I'm always on the lookout for big creatures to add to my Mayael deck. Nothing really here though but I'm loving the dinosaur theme. Maybe they'll print a dinosaur commander to use for dinosaurs in Mayael colors, like Reaper King for scarecrows (but there aren't very many scarecrows). edit: Obviously you can use Gishath but come on, it's 8 fucking mana.


Isn't casting cost irrelevant for Mayael? All creatures that have a printed power of 5+ cost 6 mana. That's the whole point. The problem with Gishath in Mayael is that in order to make Mayael work you need to hit critical mass of big stupid monsters so that the scry fails less than 10% of the time. And that means you need about 36 kaiju in your deck. On the flip side, Gishath only triggers when you have a Dinosaur in the top 7, and is only really exciting when you have two. And that means that if you want your Gishath bricking chance to be less than ten percent you need like 28 Dinosaurs. Now obviously some of your Dinosaurs are also going to be Kaiju. But honestly relatively few of them. So far they've only spoiled 7 Dinosaurs that also have the 5+ printed power that Mayael counts as a Kaiju.

And that's even before we get into minor issues like how guys like this:



Are a massive nonbo with Mayael, because cheating them into play doesn't trigger their ETB effect.

-Frank
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...You Lost Me
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 1:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Ackshually there are a few 5-power creatures that on the cheap end like Wooly Thoctar, but yeah, Mayael is about cheating mana.

Gishath is a casual tribal lord and/or a casual card for when you want to play a giant dinosaur. Either way, it's designed for timmy, and the lack of synergy is fine. Personally I'm going to jam it on Cockatrice because DINOSAURS.
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Lokey
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 10:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Stuff shown here looks pretty strong to me, granted some of it might not have marvelish tricks to get it on the board in time to matter.

Depends on what kind of meta against it is in the set or other sets and whether there's a dino extinction event there somewhere too, besides maybe not having enough synergy or a good enough ramp among the selection in your color(s).
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Surgo
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 10:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

FrankTrollman wrote:
Isn't casting cost irrelevant for Mayael? All creatures that have a printed power of 5+ cost 6 mana. That's the whole point.


I don't think I'm communicating very well. What I meant was -- none of this stuff is interesting for Mayael, but I like dinosaurs as a concept because come on, they're dinosaurs!, so I'd love to have a viable commander that was a dinosaur. Gishath rather sucks for reasons mentioned.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 12:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

That's fair.

I'm actually quite glad this block is still using the large / small distribution, because we're guaranteed to get more dinosaurs next set.
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DSMatticus wrote:
Again, look at this fucking map you moron. Take your finger and trace each country's coast, then trace its claim line. Even you - and I say that as someone who could not think less of your intelligence - should be able to tell that one of these things is not like the other.
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Prak
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 9:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

This is apparently the new Vraska-


Dat Ultimate.
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Winnah wrote:
No, No. 'Prak' is actually a Thri Kreen impersonating a human and roleplaying himself as a D&D character. All hail our hidden insect overlords.


FrankTrollman wrote:
In Soviet Russia, cosmic horror is the default state.

You should gain sanity for finding out that the problems of a region are because there are fucking monsters there.


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Surgo
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 4:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Ultimates never go off without doubling season anyway.
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Sir Aubergine
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 12:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Vraska seems like a potential threat to my old eyes. However, there are so many explosive combo decks in modern Magic, I don't think expecting to live more than 7 turns is realistic. If you could ramp her out, then she's a much bigger problem (and Green / Black can both ramp, so that's nice).

That reminds me... did they ever make Urza his own Planeswalker card? He was the inspiration for the whole card type, after all. I know that Mishra received one.
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deaddmwalking
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 1:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Surgo wrote:
Ultimates never go off without doubling season anyway.


She has a chance. She comes out with 6 loyalty counters and she can use her +2 ability on the turn she comes out. It's a matter of keeping her from being destroyed/damaged for 2 turns assuming nothing that increases loyalty counters. The mana cost is high, but if you're using treasure to cheat her into play early, I think it has a good chance of happening in play. And honestly, the -3 ability is probably what's going to win more games. If you make the opponent's big creatures start disappearing, you're going to have a good chance of getting good damage through. She's black green so you're probably going to have some other removal and some buffs.
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FrankTrollman
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 5:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Surgo wrote:
Ultimates never go off without doubling season anyway.

I ultimated Gideon yesterday.

Anyway, Vraska is going to be a thing in Jund or Sultai decks, and is a pretty serious win condition even without using the Ultimate. She gives herself a ridiculous amount of hit points just ticking up and dropping Menace Pirates, which in turn are quite hard to deal with because they have Evasion. Her use as a 6 mana removal spell is also pretty hot because it leaves a lotus petal behind and she still has 3 hit points after using it.

I don't see a place for Becket, because while Pirates are Grixis colors, I don't see a lot of reason to have all three Grixis colors in one deck. Red/Black pirates seems really low to the ground and Blue/Black Pirates is more of a tempo deck. So far there aren't any payoff cards that would make you want to be Red/Blue Pirates.

In the broader sense, there are two three-color tribes and two two-color tribes. They are evenly distributed, so every color has two tribes it's interested in: Vampires/Pirates for Black, Dinosaurs/Pirates for Red, Dinos/Merfolk for Green, Vampires/Dinosaurs for White, and Pirates/Merfolk for Blue. But the actual decks you're going to be playing are going to be two or three colors, and will thus usually have access to 3 or even 4 of the tribes if they want. Which means that the proper question is not to ask what tribe you're going to play and follow its color guild or shard, but to ask what colors your deck is going to want to be and whether it'll be worth it to zero in on tribal synergies.

Vraska requires that you be Green/Black and the little dudes she makes are specifically Pirates. Abzan doesn't seem like that good of a fit, which puts it as more of the Green/Black, Sultai, or Jund decks. My gut feeling is that her best place is in some kind of Winding Constrictor deck, with her being a card that's basically unbeatable against Control decks. Historically Green/Black, Sultai, or Jund Snek decks are pretty vulnerable to Sweepers, so it'll be nice having a six mana walker that takes over the game. Also Winding Ballista loves Snek and Green Dinosaurs lover Walking Ballista - so just because you're making Pirates doesn't mean you'll actually want to run pirate synergy cards. More broadly: while Delirium is completely gone as an archetype now, Green/Black is here to stay. The archetype has a lot of depth even with the entirety of Delirium going away.

-Frank
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FrankTrollman
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 10, 2017 12:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

We still don't have all the previews yet, and that means we don't know what the Draft archetypes are going to look like. The most important question is what a color's three best commons are; and the second most important question is how many 1, 2, 3, and 4 cost cards are at common, and we won't know the answer to those until all the commons are released. But we have seen enough of the rares that we're starting to have a good idea what the colors are offering in Constructed.

First of all, let's talk about the major archetypes from before rotation:

Ramunap Red
Good old Red Deck Wins. The deck is almost entirely Amonkhet with a few Kaladesh cards poking around the edges. Most versions use a couple Innistrad cards, but the Gorger and Incendiary Flow are extremely replaceable. Lightning Strike is back, and Lannery Storm might find a place, but basically Hazoret.dek is pretty much exactly the same and will still be good.

Mardu Vehicles
On the other end of the scale, Mardu Vehicles is dead. Every white card in the deck except Toolcraft Exemplar is from Zendikar or Innistrad, and they all rotate together. No Inspector, no Gideon, no Avacyn. Moving forward, Mardu Vehicles will not exist because it won't be Mardu anymore. However, the Red and Black portions of the deck are basically Kaladesh Block plus Glory Bringer and haven't changed. Moving forward, expect it to be Grixis Vehicles, Jund Vehicles, or just plain Red/Black Vehicles.

God Pharoah's Gift
The Gift itself is of course from Hour of Devastation and does not rotate. The deck did have multiple color options. The best pre-rotation versions used Red to fill the grave quickly because Insolent Neonate plus Gates to the Afterlife is the fastest way to get the Gift onto the field. The Neonate and the Sin Prodder are gone, but Cathartic Reunion stays. Red is less attractive as a Gifts color, White and Black are about the same. Blue gets Chart A Course, which is a strict upgrade on Tormenting Voice as well as the Search For Acanta good old Blue Ramp that fills the yard. So Blue may actually bbe good enough at Gifts that it doesn't need help. But probably it's going to want to pair with White or Black or Both.

Green/Black Constrictor
Snek is alive and well.The Delirium versions can't exist because all Delirium cards are rotating. But Green/Black Counters and Green/Black are doing just fine. There are even more reasons for such a deck to splash Blue or Red.

Temurge
Emurge is dead. All Eldrazi cards rotate.

Temur Energy
Temur Energy is a Kaladesh block deck and is unchanged. Still very powerful.

Zombies
Half the Zombie payoffs are in Innistrad and that all rotates. Zombies is dead as a tournament archetype.

Monument
The White/Blue Spirits variant is dead because Innistrad's Spirits are gone. The White Eldrazi variant is dead because the Eldrazi are gone. All the incredible Westvale-based Go-Wide synergies are gone and your boardwipe protection of Avacyn and Selfless Spirit are also gone. So it's dead, right? I don't think so. White/Black Vampires is coming in as a go-wide deck, and it's a great fit for Monument strategies.

Approach
Most White decks take it in the nuts because the best White cards rotate. But Approach only really cared about Board Wipes, card draw, and its own crazy win condition, and there are plenty of both still in the set. Mana is also a little bit better for allied color decks, so that's a thing.

New Perspectives
Talk about an all-in combo deck. New Perspectives loses zero cards because it's an Amonkhet Block deck. Blue gets some interesting card draw and filtering options, so the deck is basically just better than it was before rotation and facing a thinner field.

Blue/X Control
Blue Control decks are going to be much better moving forward. The Sweepers that go away are pretty minor. Gear Hulks are still nuts. And Blue gets some amazing tempo plays. Opt. Spellpierce.

So now let's talk about the directions you can take the various colors.

Green Dinosaurs


We herd you like ramp.

If you can figure out a way to do small amounts of damage to your own creatures (trivial in Green/Black Sneks or Red/Green Stompy), you can have a ridiculous amount of mana. To the point where I don't know what you're supposed to do with it. I think the answer is "draw a bunch of cards and play a bunch of 4/5s." That seems like it's usually going to be good enough.

Green Merfolk

Charge!

So the Green end of Ixalan Merfolk are extremely Aggro. We're nearly in Wild Nacatl territory here. I don't know if this is remotely viable, because unlike when Red pulls this shit, there aren't a lot of sources of Reach for this deck. But Turn 2: Attack for 2, Turn 3: Attack for 5 seems like a solid way to start the game.

White Dinosaurs


I'm hoping there are more pieces here, because so far this doesn't seem like a workable strategy. You got cheap delaying tactics and you got ridiculously expensive combo pieces that you can spend shit loads of mana to tutor for. If there was some way to just skip to the part where both players have 8 mana on the table, you'd just win. But there doesn't seem to be any ramp to make this happen or any particular synergy with the ramp that exists in other colors. Unless some bridging element gets released, I don't think White Dinosaurs is going to be a package many decks are interested in.

White Vampires

Squadron Hawk is now a Bear instead of a Sprite

White Vampires is all about fitting in under Dusk to Dawn and spamming the board with Tokens. I don't know if there's a payoff other than just swarming your opponent with tiny dudes, but sometimes that's enough. This is the core of the new Monument decks. There's a new Vampire Stay-Out-Of-The-Sun-Titan, but I don't know that Vampires cares, because the guy has a power of 3, which makes him awkward for Dusk To Dawn shenanigans.

Blue Merfolk


So far, none of the spoiled Blue Merfolk cards are aggressively statted 1 or 2 cost dudes. I assume you're supposed to use the blue package to turn the corner and get resiliance, value, and reach. So like, you back-foot your opponent with some Green face-grabbing and then you start making your Explorers unblockable and hard to target and stuff. This module seems dubious. But obviously Modern Merfolk can't stop touching itself over Kopala.

Blue Pirates


Pirates is pretty low curve but bizarrely also makes Treasure that would let you cast expensive spells if you cared. Blue Pirate decks are automatically tempo decks. You get a frickin Mana Leak. You get a flying man that you can sacrifice to cast Turn Aside. There's also an Anthem for flying creatures if you wanna go that way. But Tempo Control seems to be the order of the day.

Black Vampires


Not very many Black vampire cards have been spoiled so far. It all points to a Swarm strategy, and I don't see how you can do that without White on board. I don't really like the Sanctum Seeker or the Bishop. I think the fact that their power is too high for Dusk to Dawn really hurts and the fact that they don't do rider damage for the random 1/1 Human Warriors you get also really hurts. Fortunately, the Aether Revolt vampires are still legal, so we're talking about Yaheni and Gifted Aetherborn as your main curve fillers. The deck looks solid, but so far the Paladin is the only Black Vampire that Black/White Vampires seems to care about.

Black Pirates


Black Pirates are great sources of Tempo and great sources of Aggro. Functional reprint of Brain Maggot and lots of various types of evasion. Red/Black Pirate Aggro looks like a thing, Black/Blue Pirate tempo looks like a thing. Black can be slotted into other decks that are looking for Aggro or Tempo options.

Red Pirates


Very few of the bread and butter Red Pirates have been spoiled, so it's a little hard to say what's going to be going on. There are some weird Big Red Pirates that do big things, but I don't think they will see any constructed play The Arsonist at 5 mana is probably as big as I could imagine, but the synergy with Lannery Storm is pretty bad. Storm wants you to crack treasures before combat, and the Arsonist wants to be cast after combat. It's important to remember that Kari Zev is still a Pirate, so your Red/Black Pirate Aggro curve is good enough even if they don't print any more low cost Red Pirates. I'd be surprised if there wasn't some kind of 1 cost Red Pirate, and that's almost certain to be in high demand.

Red Dinosaurs


Red Dinosaurs, on the other hand, is shaping up nicely. You get the solid enablers that Green Dinosaurs was looking for. And the gold cards are definitely ready for prime time. There's some possibility of having Red Dinosaurs as a low curve aggro color, but I see it as being pretty much always paired with Green and going Midrange.

So where we are at with the tribal decks:

  • Green/Red Dinosaurs: This is a Midrange deck that is totally legit.
  • Blue/Black Pirates: This is a Tempo Control deck that is also totally legit. Also you get to run Pirates and Censorship in the same deck.
  • Red/Black Pirates: This is probably a workable deck. Low curve Pirates backed up by removal and burn come to beat face.
  • White/Black Vampires: This is probably a workable deck. Bust out the Monument from Amonkhet and the Aetherborn from Aether Revolt and you're good to go. This might go from Workable to Fucking Awesome if we get a few more 2 power Black Vampires.
  • Green/Blue Merfolk: I'm dubious. I like playing a 2/2 on turn 1, but the deck doesn't seem like it offers enough.


-Frank
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JonSetanta
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2017 1:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Orc pirates! That was a surprise.
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Prak
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2017 2:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Still waiting to see if there are goblins, too. There are weird blue monkey things in some of the art.
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Dean, on Paranoia wrote:
The book is a hardbound liars paradox.


Winnah wrote:
No, No. 'Prak' is actually a Thri Kreen impersonating a human and roleplaying himself as a D&D character. All hail our hidden insect overlords.


FrankTrollman wrote:
In Soviet Russia, cosmic horror is the default state.

You should gain sanity for finding out that the problems of a region are because there are fucking monsters there.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2017 3:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Chupacabra!




Prak, I found a goblin.


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Scaling feats were just a bad idea. I'm sorry I wrote them.


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Prak
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2017 4:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List


Finally!
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Dean, on Paranoia wrote:
The book is a hardbound liars paradox.


Winnah wrote:
No, No. 'Prak' is actually a Thri Kreen impersonating a human and roleplaying himself as a D&D character. All hail our hidden insect overlords.


FrankTrollman wrote:
In Soviet Russia, cosmic horror is the default state.

You should gain sanity for finding out that the problems of a region are because there are fucking monsters there.
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OgreBattle
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2017 10:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

The art's looking fun, the setting's theme and mechanics look fun, the merfolk fit right in.

Something bugs me about the pirates and inquisitors though, like they don't really feel 'dangerous'. They give me more of a kevin sorbo/Xena vibe of "they are actors in a fun adventure" than "That is an orc pirate who butchers prey" "that's a vampire religious fanatic who eats people"

There's also been a conscious effort for MtG artists to design things to the "MTG house style", hard to find individual style in there (at least Wayne Reynolds still does cards).


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Eikre
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2017 8:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Wayne England is dead.

Wayne Reynolds does cards, but he's got the opposite problem where he's at his most recognizable when he's also at his greatest hackishness. Really good when they stick him on a faction that needs to look like that kinda thing, though. Rakdos was pretty much made for him.

Terese Nielsen gets work, still. Seems a little like Rebecca Guay realized she was too good for the rates they offer, though.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 2:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I never thought I would say this: "I'm going to make a 'Cadillacs and Dinosaurs' deck".
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FrankTrollman
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 5:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

So what would it take to make Draw-Go Blue so good that Frank would want to run it, despite his great love of stupid combos and aggressive midrange decks?



How about an improved functional reprint of Rewind in a format where Torrential Gearhulk is legal?

I don't know if you want to run the Revel in Riches package where you actually just straight win the game by getting to 10 Treasures. But the fact that you can Gearhulk out Spell Swindle to get the mana back in a way you can spend immediately or save for a later turn is stone cold insane.

-Frank
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Lord Mistborn
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 10:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

FrankTrollman wrote:
Green/Blue Merfolk: I'm dubious. I like playing a 2/2 on turn 1, but the deck doesn't seem like it offers enough.

The killer ap for U/G is probably Deeproot Champion. A good U/G decks looks like that guy a few more good creatures and a bunch of unsummons, opts and shit to filter your draws while making tempo plays. I'm not sure if the deck will be worth playing but it's been a wining formula in the past including with the very similar Quarion Dryad.
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FrankTrollman
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 14, 2017 5:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I have a hard time taking Deeproot Champion seriously and feel that it is unlikely to go anywhere as long as Long tusk cub is legal in the format.

Deeproot Champion is worse than a bear until you trigger perma prowess twice, while LTC is better than a bear right away and also can grow itself and "sees" cards you played before it even entered play.

Although they did reveal a card that makes me a believer in W/X Dinosaurs:



-Frank
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 14, 2017 6:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

FrankTrollman wrote:

Although they did reveal a card that makes me a believer in W/X Dinosaurs:


Hoooboy I'ma gettin me a playset!
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Prak
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 14, 2017 7:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List


Quote:
Rigging Runner
Creature - Goblin Pirate

First Strike

Raid - [CARDNAME] enters the battlefield with a +1/+1 counter on it if you attacked with a creature this turn.


This guy is going in my kitchen table goblins deck with Raging Goblin and Rite of Flame.
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Dean, on Paranoia wrote:
The book is a hardbound liars paradox.


Winnah wrote:
No, No. 'Prak' is actually a Thri Kreen impersonating a human and roleplaying himself as a D&D character. All hail our hidden insect overlords.


FrankTrollman wrote:
In Soviet Russia, cosmic horror is the default state.

You should gain sanity for finding out that the problems of a region are because there are fucking monsters there.
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Eikre
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 16, 2017 7:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

No, dude. Mana pools empty at the end of each step and phase.
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