Review: Shadowverse (Japanese Hearthstone)

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OgreBattle
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Post by OgreBattle »

I like the idea of Puppetcraft and have an OK puppers only deck in rotation, but feel that the finisher 9pp Vengeful Noah should've been lower cost, 7pp Eachtar's a lot deadlier.
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Post by Josh_Kablack »

Poochiecraft seems more-than-OK in Take2 but like it's missing key pieces in constructed.
"But transportation issues are social-justice issues. The toll of bad transit policies and worse infrastructure—trains and buses that don’t run well and badly serve low-income neighborhoods, vehicular traffic that pollutes the environment and endangers the lives of cyclists and pedestrians—is borne disproportionately by black and brown communities."
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Post by Mistborn »

So ass is my style of following the meta like a sheep I've built Burnrite. It wins games but even if it's fairly powerful it kind of inelegant to play. It feels kind of Jundy where it's just a bunch of individually powerful cards that don't really have a common gameplan. I think it's mostly Wizardess's fault. As much as she enables some of the decks more unbalanced plays if feels like she wandered in from some other deck and her support cards drag the cost curve upward.
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Post by Omegonthesane »

It's generally understood at this point that Wizardess is implicitly Earth Rite support due to how much she punishes you for relying too much on spells.

I had to Google just now to confirm that the rewards for winning X ranked matches aren't remotely worth playing nothing but Portalcraft for ages
Kaelik wrote:Because powerful men get away with terrible shit, and even the public domain ones get ignored, and then, when the floodgates open, it turns out there was a goddam flood behind it.

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OgreBattle
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Post by OgreBattle »

I use Wizardress to refill my hand, most of the time I don't want spells to be drawn but every once in a while it lets me rat the foe's giant monsters. You can even make a no-spells deck with that follower who's a magic book that draws cards but discards spells at end of turn.

I do have one chain lightning in my deck to play for 1pp when Wizardress draws it. Then it's a bonus if Wizardress survives for chain lighting to be used again.

I wish there were more golem cards in rotation, the golem lab was a favorite of mine but unlimited is a hyper aggressive environment to rely on a 7pp amulet.

So Puppecraft update...
- I added in the Iron dude that puts two storm 4/3 artifacts into your deck
- Added in the 5pp banish draw artifact from your deck
- Added in that 5pp 4/4 draw artifacts from your deck dude

Puppets alone wasn't quite up to snuff and I need more storm to finish off foes that survived Noah or to weaken them for Noah. As the storm artifact is the only ones in my deck they're reliably drawn.

I took out the 5pp "grows bigger when puppets die" and 3pp amulet that puts puppets into your hand end of turn to fit in these artifact cards. Puppets alone aren't enough but hopefully splashing artifacts just for storm will work out. I'm not going to spend vials to make the mandatory-for-artifacts deus ex
Last edited by OgreBattle on Thu Jan 11, 2018 8:10 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Post by Omegonthesane »

Yeah I always expected Mysterian Grimoire to be about as important as Witch of Sweets or Falise to a Neutral Rune deck.

For comparison I'm using a net deck that has a bunch of Puppetcraft for board control but expects you to switch to the Wallet Dragon package from turn 7 to set up a finisher with either Noah or Zeus.
Kaelik wrote:Because powerful men get away with terrible shit, and even the public domain ones get ignored, and then, when the floodgates open, it turns out there was a goddam flood behind it.

Zak S, Zak Smith, Dndwithpornstars, Zak Sabbath, Justin Bieber, shitmuffin
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Post by Josh_Kablack »

I really don't understand how making Bahamut safe to play against an opposing Tribunal and synergize with you own Canyon of Dragons / Polyphonic Roar is supposed to lower than winrate of Ramp Dragon builds.

Also, introducing single card restrictions at this point in the game is bullshit. Have the guts to either nerf or not nerf.
"But transportation issues are social-justice issues. The toll of bad transit policies and worse infrastructure—trains and buses that don’t run well and badly serve low-income neighborhoods, vehicular traffic that pollutes the environment and endangers the lives of cyclists and pedestrians—is borne disproportionately by black and brown communities."
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Mistborn
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Post by Mistborn »

Josh_Kablack wrote:I really don't understand how making Bahamut safe to play against an opposing Tribunal and synergize with you own Canyon of Dragons / Polyphonic Roar is supposed to lower than winrate of Ramp Dragon builds.

Also, introducing single card restrictions at this point in the game is bullshit. Have the guts to either nerf or not nerf.
The Bahamut nerf is dumb and I honestly have no idea what they were thinking. The biggest problem with dragon has always been Israfil being a sweeper, life gain, and finisher all at once.
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Post by Josh_Kablack »

Well the stat reduction is a bit of a nerf, but that just means that now it's only 7 times out of 10 an unanswered bahamut wins the game not 9 times out of 10.

And yeah, pretty sure I've lost more games to Israfil than any other single card.

But the good news is that Phantom Cat Blood is looking viable in the rotation meta currently.
Last edited by Josh_Kablack on Sun Jan 28, 2018 7:23 pm, edited 2 times in total.
"But transportation issues are social-justice issues. The toll of bad transit policies and worse infrastructure—trains and buses that don’t run well and badly serve low-income neighborhoods, vehicular traffic that pollutes the environment and endangers the lives of cyclists and pedestrians—is borne disproportionately by black and brown communities."
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Post by Josh_Kablack »

Data taken from high-ranking matches after Jan 23 revealed that the most commonly used archetype was D-Shift Runecraft (a Runecraft deck that focuses on spellboosting Dimensional Shift) at 13.7%. Coming in second place was Daria Runecraft (a Runecraft deck that focuses on spellboosting Daria, Dimensional Witch) at 9.1%.

The win-rate for D-Shift Runecraft was 52.0% while Daria Runecraft was 54.9%, revealing a high win-rate for the spellboost archetype in the Unlimited format.
Seriously ?!?!?!

A deck with a winrate under 55% necessitates a change to your regular nerf cycle? :freakedout:

Even both decks together are still under 25% of the playerbase? That's not cause for panic -- especially not from the game that let Eachtar rule the meta for 3 months and figured that Alice Spawn could just get patched on schedule.

Also, while the additional 1-cost spell helps spellboost decks, the most key enabler to both D-Shift and Daria is the superbear that dropped in Starforged. Being able to run 3x Levi and 3x Magic Owl in unlimited guarantees that you'll get full stats plus a really good extra out of your evolve points.
"But transportation issues are social-justice issues. The toll of bad transit policies and worse infrastructure—trains and buses that don’t run well and badly serve low-income neighborhoods, vehicular traffic that pollutes the environment and endangers the lives of cyclists and pedestrians—is borne disproportionately by black and brown communities."
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Post by Mistborn »

As resident D-Shift trash yes that additional 1cc spell is a way bigger deal than Owl.

The weakest point for D-shift is turns 1-3 when aggro has the chance to get in under you. Getting to spellboost on 1 and then ward-up/removal on 2 because of 1 card is the business.
Last edited by Mistborn on Tue Jan 30, 2018 11:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Omegonthesane »

Which also explains why it was Mysterian Knowledge instead of, say, Insight.

Not quite clear if Spectral Wizard & Sky Dragon Ethica never caught on due to being 3-drops or due to the tempo loss on evolve, but my money's on the being 3-drops. Since they got reprinted / power-crept as 2-drops (Magic Owl & New Gold Aiela) with the same effect for no tempo loss.
Kaelik wrote:Because powerful men get away with terrible shit, and even the public domain ones get ignored, and then, when the floodgates open, it turns out there was a goddam flood behind it.

Zak S, Zak Smith, Dndwithpornstars, Zak Sabbath, Justin Bieber, shitmuffin
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Post by Username17 »

Josh wrote:Seriously ?!?!?!
The last nerf cycle that could reasonably claim to be data-driven was nearly a year ago. It was the Goblin Mage + Piercing Rune nerf. Everything since then has been weird thrashing around with post hoc justifications that didn't make sense on their own terms.

I don't play that game anymore precisely because of that shit. As you said, the one time an emergency ban was actually statistically justified was fucking Alice Spawn, and they didn't do one. And then when they did nerf Alice Spawn they left Alice for several more months for non-Blood Alice Decks to completely warp the format the entire time and decided to speculatively nerf several other decks at the same time that didn't have high winrates or worrying matchups against non-Alice Spawn decks.

There simply hasn't been a justification for any of the nerf cycles they had since the start of Tempest. Who looks at Shadow's high play rate and dominant winrate and Dragon's high playrate and barely adequate winrate and decides that the course of action is 1 nerf for Shadow and 2 nerfs for Dragon? How is that a thing that makes sense? And literally all of them since the Prince Catacomb nerf have been less defensible than that. The next person who shows me any data justifying the nerf of Snow White will be the first.

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OgreBattle
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Post by OgreBattle »

Israfil really rustles my jimmies
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Post by Mistborn »

So Daria has apparently taken over the meta (again). I'm not complaining given my love of all forms of spellboost but I'm sort of wondering why it took so long. Mysterian Knowledge came out months ago but it seems like only after all the top decks got nerfed did everyone remember who the best girl actually is.
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Post by OgreBattle »

So Mail of Obliteration is a stylish looking but slow and crappy shadow card, anyone tried it out in rotation? I think it's winning a contest to be a leader card so I'd like to have a deck around it.
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Post by Josh_Kablack »

Without any way to give it storm and its fanfare not triggering for Zodiac Demon, it's at best a $TEXAS/7 creature that has very low odds to be able to swing on your turn 8.

Maybe the new set will give Shadow a way to get storm and/or something like Support Cannon where a big critter dropping can matter immediatel??
"But transportation issues are social-justice issues. The toll of bad transit policies and worse infrastructure—trains and buses that don’t run well and badly serve low-income neighborhoods, vehicular traffic that pollutes the environment and endangers the lives of cyclists and pedestrians—is borne disproportionately by black and brown communities."
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Post by Mistborn »

So Reanimate Shadow is now a real deck in Unlimited (and also in Rotation but the rotation version isn't as good) and I finished crafting the cards for it today. My list is
3x Soul conversion
3x Happy Pig
3x Lurching Corpse
2x Little Soulsquasher
1x Demon Eater
3x Gloomy Necromancer
2x Undying Resentment
3x Purehearted Singer
3x Everdark Strix
2x Ceres of the Night
3x Ceridwen
1x Underworld Ruler Aisha
2x Sow Death, Reap Life
1x Death's Breath
3x Underworld Watchman Khawy
2x Death Dragon Caller
3x Zeus
Basically your goal is to burial rite Dr Zeus and then bring him back again and again. People were fooling around with it last expansion mostly as backup plan for Antomeme but it was hamstrung by being a 3 card combo. It looks like second low cost source of burial rite was enough to push the deck into winning tournaments.
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Post by OgreBattle »

I recently discover d the power of fairies in rotation, it’s how I wanted puppetraft to play
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Post by Josh_Kablack »

Lord Mistborn wrote:So Reanimate Shadow is now a real deck in Unlimited (and also in Rotation but the rotation version isn't as good)
Game Design wise, It's got the D-shift issue - in that playing against it, you are just hoping that the deck doesn't hit its combo(es) right, because there's basically nothing in the way of countermeasures if it does.

You can play hyper-aggro and hope to deal enough early damage that you can throw burn to the face to finish the game before the second Evo point turns into a second Zeus -- but that's a lost cause if even one Ceres drops.
Last edited by Josh_Kablack on Sun Jun 03, 2018 6:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"But transportation issues are social-justice issues. The toll of bad transit policies and worse infrastructure—trains and buses that don’t run well and badly serve low-income neighborhoods, vehicular traffic that pollutes the environment and endangers the lives of cyclists and pedestrians—is borne disproportionately by black and brown communities."
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Post by Omegonthesane »

I am liking Arcus Shadowcraft in rotation. Even if I come scarily close to milling every time it actually works.

My personal list:

3x Mischievous Spirit
2x Staircase
2x Little Soulsquasher
2x Demon Eater
3x Belenus
3x Andrealphus
3x Gloomy Necromancer
3x Zombie Party
2x Troth's Curse
3x Purehearted Singer
2x Everdark Strix
2x Corpselord of Woe
2x Ceres of the Night
3x Ephemera
2x Aisha
3x Arcus

Game plan of hope to hell I draw Arcus by turn 7, use spare Arcuses as Burial Rite targets, Corpselord/Ceres to maintain board control in the midgame in preference to just throwing more minions down, then rush face like mad once I've started the ghost engine and optionally finish with Aisha because it's very hard not to meet Necromancy requirements once Arcus is online.

Slight irritance in that once Arcus activates, Everdark Strix is destroyed before it can heal you for 1 HP for having just performed a Burial Rite.
Last edited by Omegonthesane on Sun Jun 03, 2018 7:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Kaelik wrote:Because powerful men get away with terrible shit, and even the public domain ones get ignored, and then, when the floodgates open, it turns out there was a goddam flood behind it.

Zak S, Zak Smith, Dndwithpornstars, Zak Sabbath, Justin Bieber, shitmuffin
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Post by Mistborn »

Josh_Kablack wrote:
Lord Mistborn wrote:So Reanimate Shadow is now a real deck in Unlimited (and also in Rotation but the rotation version isn't as good)
Game Design wise, It's got the D-shift issue - in that playing against it, you are just hoping that the deck doesn't hit its combo(es) right, because there's basically nothing in the way of countermeasures if it does.

You can play hyper-aggro and hope to deal enough early damage that you can throw burn to the face to finish the game before the second Evo point turns into a second Zeus -- but that's a lost cause if even one Ceres drops.
I'd say that Reanimate is more like Daria than it is like D-shift. It's best draws are virtually unbeatable but we don't live in magical Christmas land and you don't always get the turn 5 Zeus much less the turn 6 follow up. You beat these decks by being able to weather the average case scenario.

D-shift on the other hand is extremely consistent and inevitable in practice. You beat D-shift by punching them in the face before they deploy their win con.
Last edited by Mistborn on Mon Jun 04, 2018 1:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by OgreBattle »

I like Atomy decks but hate how reanimate revolves around Zeus.

Got into group A with an earthrite deck, elder Mage of dragon lore delivers surprise 5dmg finishes
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Post by Mistborn »

OgreBattle wrote:I like Atomy decks but hate how reanimate revolves around Zeus.

Got into group A with an earthrite deck, elder Mage of dragon lore delivers surprise 5dmg finishes
I got into group B also with earthrite, tried with aggro forest the previous time around but that was like banging my head against a wall.

I've been steadily climbing through master with Daria and I feel like people are way too quick to give up against Rune. Like sometimes I'll play Daria look at my new hand and wince but the opponent concedes anyway.
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Post by OgreBattle »

Got to the 2nd round of Rotation tournament and my super winning aggro fairy deck got obliterated by Tenko cannons, PDK wiping the board.

Deck consists of...
Goblin x3
Water Fairy x3
Airbound Barrage x3
Fairy Whisperer x3
Leaf Man x2
Rayne Elf Smith x2
Insect Lord x3
Storied Falconer x3
Elf Song x3
Wood of Brambles x3
Beetle Warrior x3
Starry Elf x2
Fairy Driver x3
Jungle Warden x2
Ipiria x2

Perhaps trade out JW and Iperia, if I'm at turn 10 for double warden I'm probably losing. Maybe more removal

Earthrite Deck is...

Witch's Cauldron x3
Starseer's Telescope x3
Magic Illusionist x3
Beastfaced Mage x3
Silent Laboratory x3
Mage of Nightfall x2
Karl, Pious Instructor x3
Gingerbread House x2
Halo Golem x3
Summoning Drills x3
Wizardess of Oz x3
Master Mage Levi x3
Mugagenic Bolt x2
Grand Summoning x2
Elder Mage of Dragonlore x2

I don't like beastface all that much, but there's few 2drops for earthrite in rotation. Gingerbread house used to be Magic Wunderkinds x2 but they're pretty situational. Considering crafting the Silverblade golem for more finishing power
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