Review: Shadowverse (Japanese Hearthstone)

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DSMatticus
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Post by DSMatticus »

If I were rewriting bloodcraft, their core mechanic would be a weird mix of necromancy and spellboost based around life loss. Cards would have "Bloodrush (X): Do stuff," and whenever you took damage the X on any bloodrush cards in your hand would count down on a 1-for-1 basis until the effect triggered. So like necromancy, it's a binary effect that either happens or doesn't when you play the card; like spellboost, it's a running counter on individual cards instead of a resource; and like vengeance, it synergizes well with lifeloss and lifegain.

As an example, Diabolic Drain would read:
"Deal 4 damage to an enemy follower. Then restore 2 defense to your leader.
Bloodrush (...5-7? Ish?): This card costs 4 less."

You could tinker with the mechanic by having it also count any damage the enemy leader took (along with an across the board increase in bloodrush costs). The bloodier the battle, the more dangerous your cards are.
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Post by OgreBattle »

Perhaps something like a countdown amulet but it only counts down when you take damage.

So your opponents are punished for attacking face, and you can also activate amulets by using self harming cards.
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Post by Whipstitch »

I pulled a take 2 swordcraft deck where the only decent rares were Awilda and Dragonnewt Charlotte. I am so fucking bitter right now. Choosing between Sky Castles, Frontlines, and Rogue's Creed is no way to live.
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Post by OgreBattle »

I lost to a guy using phoenix roost in take 2, my hand was... a dwarf alchemist and a bunch of creature kill spells, he then filled his boards with giant snakey dragons

Fought a Daria user. Barely survived Daria 1, then a 2nd Daria drops. I'm on the verge of death with Daria 2, then the 3rd drops and the guy mills himself.

Fought Dragon discard, the 1st imperial dragoon nearly killed me, then the 2nd one dropped, left me on the edge of death with an empty board, and milled the guy to death.
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Post by Josh_Kablack »

Had a Take Two game where I went first, played Front Lines turn 1, Cyclone Soldier Turn 2, watched the opponent not have a 2-cost or less answer, then played Fencer and got to swing for 5 on turn 3.

This has me wondering about the viability of Front Lines as a build-around card for a variant swordcraft aggro deck? Obviously Cyclone Soldier is a high-risk gamble card which will usually be answered in constructed, but going with cheap Ambush officers and going very light on commanders should let it get a lot of value pretty early in the game. I guess the drawback is that it wouldn't synergize with Storm or Rush troops.
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Post by Whipstitch »

Problem with Front Lines is that if you really want to catch pokey decks flat footed you should be dropping a Quick Blader/Vanguard followed up by a Palace Fencer/Princess Vanguard instead. In practice Front Lines's best asset isn't really that it's true aggro, it's that if your curve doesn't go according to plan you can just throw it out there and start helping things trade up. Hence you really only see it in Take 2 where people get stuck with it as usable filler. When people feel like going full meme with ambush they just grab Rogue's Creed instead.
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Post by nockermensch »

Josh_Kablack wrote:Had a Take Two game where I went first, played Front Lines turn 1, Cyclone Soldier Turn 2, watched the opponent not have a 2-cost or less answer, then played Fencer and got to swing for 5 on turn 3.

This has me wondering about the viability of Front Lines as a build-around card for a variant swordcraft aggro deck? Obviously Cyclone Soldier is a high-risk gamble card which will usually be answered in constructed, but going with cheap Ambush officers and going very light on commanders should let it get a lot of value pretty early in the game. I guess the drawback is that it wouldn't synergize with Storm or Rush troops.
My very first deck had Front Lines because my initial thinking for deck building was put all the golds and legendaries together and hope for the best, and once I hit somebody for like 7 dmg with a Quickblader. (it was something like quickblader that had survived into turn 4 + Fencer + Fencer + evolution). Granted, this happened on the low, low Elos, but that shit was fun.

EDIT:
Re: Cyclone Soldier

As I understand, Cyclone Soldier actual use is to force the adversary to play a removal card right then or to throw whatever follower they already have on board at it. For some reason, if you play Oathless Knight or Veteran Lancer on turn 2, people just accept that they'll eat 2 face damage on turn 3, even if this means (if you didn't play the lancer) that they'll ignore your followers and go for face damage against you too. But play Cyclone Soldier and chances are that they'll go out of their way to avoid letting it even act. :P
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Post by Username17 »

The fact that Front Lines triggers at the end of your turn means that it's really unlikely to do enough damage to be worth a card slot. Any time you go your turn without playing an Officer, it misses. Any time your opponent blows up the follower or was going to trade anyway, it misses. The kind of deck that really cares about having a turn 1 play that does face damage is also going to be the kind of deck that wants the game over in 6 to 8 turns. It can't hit anything on turn 1, so it has a maximum number of chances of hitting of 7, but the last turn doesn't matter either because the bonus is at the end of the turn, by which time you'll have won or lost. So there are 4-6 chances for it to do damage. If it hits half the time, that's like 2-3 damage over the course of the game, which doesn't look good compared to a Quick Blader.

But it's actually worse than that. A 1 mana push for 1 damage that maybe kinda could hope to do more than that is definitely a thing that aggro sword and midrange sword are interested in. Quick Blader is an easy 3-of, and lots of people pack at least one copy of Mentor's Teachings. The big problem we have here is that it takes up a slot on the table. You only get five, and the kind of low-to-the-ground deck that would be interested in that kind of early mana to early damage play probably also wants to play out a lot of cheap creatures, and the opportunity cost of having an amulet is really high.

And finally we have the issue that Royal Banner exists. You obviously don't want to use up a lot of slots on the table with booster amulets, and while Royal Banner is not going to be played until turn 4, it hits all your officers all the time (including Storm officers!), so it's going to do a lot more damage even though it won't be around for as many turns. And Royal Banner can be tutored with Maids and also provides storm to Centaurs and shit like that.

Royal Banner is a deck that exists. It's not a great deck to be honest. At Master Rank it has a mildly negative win rate, which is surprising because "goodstuff.dek" has a mildly positive win rate in Swordcraft.

---

Anyway, similar discussions can be made about Commander Sword and the Support Cannon. Obviously, Commander Sword is less inclined to spam the board with cheap Officers (White Paladins being an obvious exception), so spending a slot on an Amulet is less burdensome. Also, the amount of damage it does is a lot higher.

Basically the way to look at the Support Cannon is that it's a 5 cost follower that doesn't have Ward and doesn't have Rush or Storm, but it's very hard to remove and it's almost certainly going to start hammering on the opponent's creatures from Turn 6 onwards. If you're going to be missing some turns or doing 2 or less damage on a regular basis, I would say the card is bad. You'd rather play an Aurelia or Avant Blader. If it's going to be doing 3 damage every turn, that's fairly interesting. If it's going to be doing 4 or more damage every turn, it's stone cold insane. And obviously, if you're regularly following up your Support Cannon by playing a White Paladin and a Gemstaff Commander or an Enraged General and blasting for 6, shit got super real.

So I think Commander Sword sounds pretty viable. It's weird because it's a deck that wants to do most of its cool stuff in turns 6, 7, and 8. Which is not a place most Sword decks are interested in playing.
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Post by Josh_Kablack »

Re: Vengeance.

Another problem is that Vengeance was obviously conceived as a lategame power-boost mechanic. Where in concept, your cards got better than your opponent's cards in the lategame. Except that it's competing against Spellboost where things get better/cheaper in the lategame, Overflow, where things get better in the lategame and things like Necromancy where card riders are more likely to triggered in the lategame and Countdown - where mana costs are substituted by time costs. Thus the meta of concepts, Vengeance is just doing what five of the other six factions do but at higher risk.

If I were trying to design a fix that could salvage it the current mechanic, there are two directions I would consider.

Easiest would be to just have ALL Vengeance triggers involve some subset of { Rush/Storm, Heal, Ward, removal, or cost-reduction on cards that already did these }.

More interesting would be to have Vengeance specifically trigger Evolutions without costing Evolution points. This would effectively give your troops rush and stat boosts plus some interesting ability triggers in the lategame while slotting into existing mechanics and allowing the possibility of triggering the Evolutions normally in a more-aggro approach.
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Post by Whipstitch »

Fuck, I hate getting dragoncraft missions.
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Post by Josh_Kablack »

FrankTrollman wrote: So I think Commander Sword sounds pretty viable. It's weird because it's a deck that wants to do most of its cool stuff in turns 6, 7, and 8. Which is not a place most Sword decks are interested in playing.
I think the specific build that's gonna work is gonna be expensive and take some experimentation to find -- Do you want Gawain and higher-end stuff? Or is it better to go with a cheaper curve? How many Luminous Mages do you want? What's the timing interaction between Luminous Standard and Support Cannon? Is Ironwrought Fortress still bottom-tier? etc.

But there are definitely legs there. The part I like is how running Commnader-centric lets Avant Blader (and maybe Conscription) reverse the usual Maid Leader effect. If Quickbladers and Novice Troopers are your only Officers in the deck, then any officer search gets you something with Storm (see also Centaur Vanguard and Ruthless Assassin)
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Post by Username17 »

Josh wrote:What's the timing interaction between Luminous Standard and Support Cannon? Is Ironwrought Fortress still bottom-tier?
Timing is normally left to right. So if you played the Standard before the Cannon, then the Standard will trigger before the Cannon, and if you played the Cannon first, the Cannon will trigger before the Standard.

Ironwrought Fortress is still vender trash because you can't afford to fill up your play slots with 1/2 crap creatures when you have Amulets and creatures that spawn additional creatures. We're talking about a deck that wants a Support Cannon in play and plays White Paladin, Amelia, Latham, and Luminious Mage. A Luminous Mage play with a Support Cannon and a Fortress would put 4 followers into 3 slots even if you had no followers in play to begin with. It's a non-starter. If we were playing a game with unlimited play slots like Magic, then Ironwrought Fortress would be a crazy value card. But as-is, it just clogs your board with cheap shit.

I think the correct number of Luminous Mages to play is 3. It puts 6/8 worth of stats into play for 5 mana and your opponent has to kill it immediately because its text reads "gain an evolution point every turn this creature stays alive" which is fucking insane. It's like Minty of the Underworld - your opponent has to spend an evolution point if necessary to kill it, but you don't have to spend an evo point to have your must-kill creature sitting there flipping your opponent off.
Josh wrote:Do you want Gawain and higher-end stuff?
I think you want Gawain and mostly 3-4 cost commanders. If you do a Gawain swing on turn 4, your turn 5 can be Cannon and your turn 6 can be Latham and Amelia. Or Luminous Mage and Gemstaff Commander. The goal should be to play two followers most turns once tha cannon comes down and blast for 6+ damage. Ideally, you'd trade out last turn's followers, play new followers and blast face so that you keep face damage going and also don't run out of play slots.

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Post by DSMatticus »

The new bloodcraft cards are kinda meh.

Spiderweb Imp: The fact that it domes you in the face for playing it almost perfectly negates the fact that it's a ward creature with slightly higher defense than its cost suggests.

Frogbat: The world's worst inevitability.

Assault Werewolf: It kills wards super hard, but otherwise sucks.

Stolen Life: If you already have a creature on the board that can go face, this is better than imp lancer at the same price. I can see aggro decks running this.

Mask of the Black Death: At best, this is equivalent to +5 life. At worst, tihs is equivalent to +0 life. This makes aggro decks cry, but against slower-paced decks it is either outright suboptimal or has to be timed well. I can see control decks running this.

Baphomet: He tutors for something scary, and if you pay moar he makes that scary something cheaper. I don't see anyone running this. Bloodcraft has good enough draw in the form of dire bond and blood pact, and this just costs too much.

Dark Airjammer: This has great value even without vengeance, and absurd value with it, but I don't think anyone's going to care. For an aggro deck, it's a late play without storm. For a control deck, it's a midgame play without utility. And it suffers from the same "you're about to die and this will do nothing to solve that" problem lots of vengeance cards suffer from, unless you get lucky in what it grabs.

Vlad: This is a bad outlet for evolution points most of the time.

Galretto, Devil of Love: Galretto's job is to protect your other followers and he sucks at it because he is squishy and people can still just swing into your other followers.

Blood Moon: Honestly no idea how this one is going to play out. Artificial vengeance means a lot of incremental value out of potentially a lot of cards, but it costs 3 mana. I don't think aggro will run it, because they can't spare a turn for it. I don't think control will run it, because there really aren't that many cards that scream "if only I had vengeance, this card would be a great finisher!" But I do think it could potentially create a whole new midrange blood archetype that tries to drop bloodmoon on turn 3 and then follow up on turns 4-6 with ridiculous value. Dark Airjammer probably makes it into this deck.

Soul Dominator: This is Imp Lancer's big sister; 4/6 for 7, storm, gets scarier everytime a follower dies. I'm not sure if this will make it into aggro decks; 7's a bit pricy. She's also competing with Alucard, who has 2 less defense, doesn't get scarier, but can heal you if you're in vengeance. Nto sure if she'll be able to carve a niche for herself.

Belphegor: You play a 4/4 for 4, then you draw 2 cards and stab yourself in the face over and over until you're in vengeance. Trash legendary, free vials.

Maelstrom Serpent: No storm, no utility, great value especially if you're in vengeance. Won't make it into aggro decks, probably won't make it into control decks because no utility, might end up as the big hurrah of midrange blood moon decks if those end up being a thing.

So, tl;dr;. stolen life (bronze) for aggro blood, mask of the black death (silver) for control blood, and then maybe we get to see a new midrange blood archetype centered around blood moon that uses dark airjammer and maelstrom serpent. Anything I'm missing?
Last edited by DSMatticus on Fri Mar 24, 2017 10:39 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Post by OgreBattle »

I've heard the new cards are good for Earth Rite, looking forward to that. Perhaps I should save my gold instead of trying to get more taboos professors and juno labs
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Post by DSMatticus »

Well, just looking at Hulking Giant made me think "that's fucking annoying." A 6/6 for 6 that can't be targeted and is actually probably a 10/10? For my control blood deck, that's pretty much righteous devil or bust. But that's the only thing I saw that stood out to me (I will admit not being super familiar with dirt runecraft). I don't think that's enough to get dirt rune out of shit tier. Also, I think it's somewhat telling that it makes value out of earth sigil cards by letting you toss them instead of play them.
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Post by Username17 »

DSM wrote:Baphomet: He tutors for something scary, and if you pay moar he makes that scary something cheaper. I don't see anyone running this. Bloodcraft has good enough draw in the form of dire bond and blood pact, and this just costs too much.
Turn 4: Blood Moon.
Turn 5: Baphomet.
Turn 6: Five Maelstrom Serpents. Opponent Concedes.

Since Bloody Mary, Queen Vampire, and Bloodhungry Matriarch are attack 4 and the Beast Dominators that pop out of Sadistic Night are not in your deck, it's really easy to have Baphomet always give you a single card. You don't even have to have a low curve, you can have a shit tonne of 7 drops and still get the single card you want. For aggro decks, that's going to be Mastema. For combo decks that's going to be Maelstrom Serpent. For control decks that's probably going to be Temptress Vampire. No matter what flavor of Blood you are, you're going to want to play Baphomets. The fact that you have the option of playing it on 5 and getting an 8 or 9 cost follower out of turn 6 is a neat option, but it's basically exactly Maid Leader for Sword except it's a 2/1 instead of being a 1/1.

It's in the running with Candelabra as most broken card in the set.

As for Belphegor, I dunno. Turbo Vengeance might be a thing, and following up a Blood Moon on turn 3 with a turn 4 Belphegor is a lot of value. I don't know if Blood Moon is enough to make turbo vengeance not terrible, but if it is, Belphegor is a pretty good fit in that deck. Also puts you directly into Vengeance if you weren't already, allowing you to Storm out a Dark General on Turn 8, which can be game winning - or pop back out of Vengeance with a Drain on turn 5. Seems quite good in a deck that is currently bad but picked up a lot of pieces. Dark Airjammer similarly. As a Turn 5 play after a Blood Moon it sounds fantastic.

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Post by Josh_Kablack »

I suspect that Candeledra only subtracts from amulets played **from hand** and does not turn Seraph into a turn 8 win. It still would make Death Sentance , Pious Fox, Heretical Inquiry and Forbidden Ritual into now spells. However the Candelabra is itself an amulet, so the Eidelon that Seraph Decks are gonna really want if they add Tarnishef Grails is counter-synergistic.

The Havencraft card which I think is flying under the radar is Octobishop, which is going to be very solid defense for Guardian Sun decks.
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Post by Username17 »

Josh_Kablack wrote:I suspect that Candeledra only subtracts from amulets played **from hand** and does not turn Seraph into a turn 8 win. It still would make Death Sentance , Pious Fox, Heretical Inquiry and Forbidden Ritual into now spells. However the Candelabra is itself an amulet, so the Eidelon that Seraph Decks are gonna really want if they add Tarnishef Grails is counter-synergistic.

The Havencraft card which I think is flying under the radar is Octobishop, which is going to be very solid defense for Guardian Sun decks.
Candelabra definitely only counts once on the Seraph. The second piece is put into play but not played, so it doesn't get any more acceleration. Even so, it makes the first section of the Seraph pass instantly, so it counts once towards the three accelartions you need on turn 9 in order to win the game.

That's what makes it so fucking awesome. Not only does it make Death Sentence and Forbidden Ritual into instant effects, but it also counts as one of the three supplecations of the Seraph to give you a turn 9 win. Which means that it both makes your removal better and makes the Seraph wincon better. And it makes your Sacred Pleas go off a turn earlier as well. It's totally shit in multiples, but my goodness that amulet is powerful.

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Post by DSMatticus »

FrankTrollman wrote: Turn 4: Blood Moon.
Turn 5: Baphomet.
Turn 6: Five Maelstrom Serpents. Opponent Concedes.
Well, I am now 100% convinced that midrange blood moon is going to be a thing.

I still do not see Baphomet finding its way into aggro decks. Aggro blood has about two to three slots in the 3-drop range that it has absolutely no idea what to do with that usually end up being shit like Mini Soul Devil (3/2, chip damage on evolves - even the enemy's). You could turn those into Baphomets. That decreases your early game lethality, but gives you the option to invest in a hyper lethal turn 6. That... might be a tradeoff you want to make, but then you realize that you have nothing in your aggro blood deck that Baphomet can even tutor for. Aggro blood caps out at shit like Dark General, Imp Lancer, and maybe Alucard - all 4 attack, all (potentially) have storm.

So now you swap in something big and scary. There is literally nothing in Bloodcraft with both storm and 5 or more attack, so Mastema is pretty much as good as it gets. If you're forced to play Baphomet early just to put bodies on the ground, then you can play the Mastema he draws you on turn 5 and not feel like a complete idiot. If you play Baphomet on turn 5 then Mastema can hit the table for 2 on turn 6 and leave you with 4 mana to do other things. But Mastema still doesn't have storm, and turn 5 and turn 6 really, really, really need to be explosive. You are an aggro deck that cuts yourself for value. There is no deck in the entire game that feels the clock as painfully as you do. And if you happen to draw Mastema through your actual draws? You are going to feel real dumb that that's not a Dark General or Imp Lancer.

As for control blood, ehh... so here's the deal with control blood; its more about utility than inevitability. You are a deck of answers and some of those answers happen to be able to swing across the table for damage. Even your finishers - Temptress Vampire, Odin, Bahamut - are just removal spells with stat lines. I'm not sure you need to get Temptress Vampire out early; you're not necessarily looking to go lethal on turn 6 (not that you'd ever turn down the opportunity to do so), and there should be plenty of removal options already in your hand. But at the same time, I'm not sure control blood needs all the early lifegain it runs, and a card that you can play early as an emergency meatshield or play late for value seems somewhat controlly? Maybe you could run it as a 2x by dropping some dancing unicorns and healing angels? In the end, it seems marginal. Whereas aggro blood cares about the clock more than any other deck in the game, control blood may very well be the exact opposite and not give a single fuck. You keep the board stable, hit when you can, and eventually you can go lethal so you do.
FrankTrollman wrote:As for Belphegor, I dunno. Turbo Vengeance might be a thing, and following up a Blood Moon on turn 3 with a turn 4 Belphegor is a lot of value. I don't know if Blood Moon is enough to make turbo vengeance not terrible, but if it is, Belphegor is a pretty good fit in that deck. Also puts you directly into Vengeance if you weren't already, allowing you to Storm out a Dark General on Turn 8, which can be game winning - or pop back out of Vengeance with a Drain on turn 5. Seems quite good in a deck that is currently bad but picked up a lot of pieces. Dark Airjammer similarly. As a Turn 5 play after a Blood Moon it sounds fantastic.
The idea of hitting yourself in the face for what could easily be 6-10 damage sounds fucking abysmal. Belphegor seems less like a card that benefits from blood moon and more one that depends on it, and you only get three blood moons. That said, I'm currently unsure of how they will implement the relationship between Belphegor and Bloody Mary. If it's the actual infinite loop the text suggests, then those two legendaries voltron together into an autowin on turn 6 and an OTK on turn 9. Neither of those is bad, and those are both cards that fit in a hypothetical midrange blood moon archetype.

EDIT: Except for the part where you want to NOT be in vengeance in order to pull that off, and the whole point of the deck is being in vengeance. But, still, that gives Belphegor utility both in and out of vengeance - which is something she desperately needs if she wants to be included in decks despite the potentially hefty drawback.
Last edited by DSMatticus on Fri Mar 24, 2017 8:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Username17 »

DSM wrote:I still do not see Baphomet finding its way into aggro decks. Aggro blood has about two to three slots in the 3-drop range that it has absolutely no idea what to do with that usually end up being shit like Mini Soul Devil (3/2, chip damage on evolves - even the enemy's). You could turn those into Baphomets.
Baphomet costs 2. He's a Bloodwolf where you replace the 2 damage to both players in the turn you play it with "draw a card, that card is Mastema." Some aggro decks are so desperate for 2 drops that they run Hamsa, and I think that a Baphomet package is clearly superior.
DSM wrote:That said, I'm currently unsure of how they will implement the relationship between Belphegor and Bloody Mary.
Tempest is launching with giant question marks on key cards for every faction. How the fuck does Heavenly Aegis work? Can we kill it with non-targeted stuff? With transformation effects? Can we give it ward with Guardian Sun? What the fuck? Does Lord Atomy not clear your board but still cost zero if you have Bard Elta in play? Does Lord Atomy coming into play unfreeze the Mammoth and then blow up the Mammoth or blow up the amulet and unfreeze the mammoth? Does Minty give you a fully operational death star when you play Tyrant? Oh my god, I haven't even finished the open Shadowcraft questions!

The decision to go with no new key words plus the decision to make a bunch of effects which were substantially more complicated just creates a bunch of weird edge cases and poorly explained effects.

Weird Shadowcraft idea for the day: Death's Ledger hunts Shadowcraft Followers. So while you could play it in a regular Nephthys deck, you could also pack your deck with Neutral followers like Unica and Urd, and leave the only Shadowcraft slots to be Mordecai, Khawy, Attendant, Unleasher, and Lurching Corpse. You can be a fucking Sahaquiel deck with Zeus, Lucifer, and Israfil and still be a deck that value-searches for Mordecais.

Weird Havencraft idea: Elana's Prayer doesn't need to run any 2 cost followers other than Holy Archer Kel. Rabbit Healers are obviously nice, as are Unicas, but it doesn't need those things. Which means that you can actually Goblin Mage out your Holy Archers for more OTK goodness.

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Post by Whipstitch »

It's cute that Dcraft players are so excited about their mass banish that they're ginning up crying Mordecai gifs. I get that they have a lot of angst to work through since Nep versus Dramp is basically a snuff film but the confidence feels premature.
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Post by DSMatticus »

FrankTrollman wrote:Some aggro decks are so desperate for 2 drops that they run Hamsa, and I think that a Baphomet package is clearly superior.
Wut? Blood has obvious go-tos for like 12x two drops; Blood Wolf, Vania, Yurius, and Summon Bloodkin (it counts shut up). It's the three drops where it's hard to find obvious picks (Veight, and... uhh... Veight). Baphomet isn't a crippling downgrade from an offensive 3-drop, but it's really only buying you a (maybe) discounted Mastema, and I still really, really do not like Mastema. She doesn't have storm, which means I would often honestly rather play a Dark General for 4 than a Mastema for 2.

Think of it this way. It's your turn and you're clear to go face. Which would you rather have in your hand, Mastema, Dark General, or Imp Lancer? If the opponent answers your threat on their next turn, then playing Mastema does 0 damage, playing Dark General does either 0 or 4, and playing Imp Lancer does 3. If the opponent goes a turn without answering your threat, then playing Mastema does 6 damage, Dark General does either 4 or 8, and Imp Lancer does 6. If the opponent goes two turns without answering your threat, then playing Mastema does 12 damage, Dark General does either 8 or 12, and Imp Lancer does 9. It took three turns - that's two turns you've given the enemy to do something about it! - for Mastema to be the unambiguously superior offensive choice. I would much rather hit the enemy in the face twice with Dark General or Imp Lancer - that'll probably win me the game outright, and it's much easier to pull off.

Mastema ain't aggro. She's good value with a hefty price tag. She's midrange pain, or maybe a roadblock control slaps down to make you sweat and pull your resources. That is not aggro blood's jam.

All in on rushdown, bitches!

Heaven or hell, let's rock!

Come on you apes, you want to live forever?

Gotta go fast!

No but seriously I'm dying hold still and let me stab you (this should be razory claw's actual flavor text).
Username17
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Post by Username17 »

Whipstitch wrote:It's cute that Dcraft players are so excited about their mass banish that they're ginning up crying Mordecai gifs. I get that they have a lot of angst to work through since Nep versus Dramp is basically a snuff film but the confidence feels premature.
Yeah, it's pretty weird. Lightning Blast is obviously an anti-Haven card. You play Lightning Blast after Nephthys and you pass it back to the Shadowcraft player with a more favorable board than when they first played Nephthys. Now they play a second Nephthys or a Mordecai straight from their hand and then they sacrifice their Mordecai for extra cards because they have 9 mana instead of 8. The best anti-Nephthys card is Genesis Dragon, because at least that strikes first. The fact that that isn't enough means that Lightning Blast won't be enough either.

Havencraft can actually lose more than one turn of investment when you spend an entire turn's worth of mana to exile their board. Their wards and countdown amulets are gone, and the win condition they tutored for is going away. That can get you ahead. Nephthys just loses some of the positive effects of one turn playing 1 card. They still keep all the shadows and the Khawy healing and the fact that your biggest creature is dead.

This moves DRamp vs Seraph from Unfavorable to Favorable. Dramp vs Nephthys is still unfavorable and I do not understand the crying Luna memes.
DSM wrote:Think of it this way. It's your turn and you're clear to go face. Which would you rather have in your hand, Mastema, Dark General, or Imp Lancer?
Is it Turn 5 and I don't have Vengeance? Because if it's Turn 5 I can't play Imp Lancer and if I don't have Vengeance Dark General can't attack face. If it's turn 5 and I don't have Vengeance, Mastema is the most pain I can put on the table. Since my opponent is going to be trying to kill my board, this is a circumstance that will come up fairly often.

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Post by Whipstitch »

Yeah, I expect to lose a game here and there due to a banished Mordy and some goofy draws but fundamentally speaking we're talking about a matchup that's been so bad that I usually respond to multiple ramp by playing bejeweled and pruning my podcast queue.
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Post by GreatGreyShrike »

Mask of the Black Death: At best, this is equivalent to +5 life. At worst, tihs is equivalent to +0 life. This makes aggro decks cry, but against slower-paced decks it is either outright suboptimal or has to be timed well. I can see control decks running this.
I agree that it's probably a control deck tool, but I think this might be better than you might be crediting it. From my best guess based on the wording, the Mask eats sources of damage at a time, and excess damage beyond what it can deal with will not be carried over back to your life. So a super good situation (for example) is that you play it on Turn 2, then an enemy slams your face for 3 damage and bring the mask down to 2, then mask ticks to 1 left at the start of your turn... and then you play Dire Bond and take 0 damage from the fanfare that breaks the mask. In this situation, you're up +9 life from where you'd be just playing the Dire Bond; compare this to the value of Unica (which usually absorbs 2 damage that would go to your face, and also often kills a single weak creature) and you can see that it's often going to be a really good play.
Last edited by GreatGreyShrike on Sat Mar 25, 2017 5:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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