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RobbyPants
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 6:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Zaranthan wrote:
I've been saying it since I first heard he was running in the primaries. Every week he did something that, for any actual politician, would be the end of their career. But somehow, people kept fucking voting for him. I wouldn't be the least bit surprised to learn that he's as befuddled as the rest of us.

So, he's basically like Wally from Dilbert. He just wants to drink coffee and read the paper angrily tweet all day, and is hanging around waiting to see how long it takes to get fired.

Wiseman wrote:
Which begs the question of why not just resign? It doesn't seem like he would care about the damage it would to to the republican party.

I can see him stepping down in 2020, saying that he's accomplished more in his four years than all of the presidents in the last 40 years combined. In all seriousness, he already says this sort of thing, and the tax cuts he's been waiting for just passed. Maybe he just coasts another three years lying about how much he's doing, holding the occasional rally.
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Kaelik
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 8:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I could see him running again solely because if you aren't president, you can't keep being immune to crimes.
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Voss
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 9:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Shatner wrote:
Bannon's book likens the Trump campaign to The Producers, with the express desire to lose the election and walk away with added fame and money.

Certainly not surprising, but it is surprising to see it said openly.

Colbert says it better.

Somewhat better summary of the book:
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-42559436


Today's follow up:
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-42570555

Trumps lawyers actively seeking the censorship of the book, with "immediately cease and desist from any further publication, release or dissemination"

Further:
"On Thursday, the White House said it was banning personal devices, including mobile phones, from the West Wing, citing security concerns."
---

I don't think this is going to turn out the way his people think. Actively taking censorship steps and trying to muzzle staffers is going to give all this credibility. Sadly I don't think 'Trump Country' is going to give a shit, even about this.
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RobbyPants
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 9:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Voss wrote:

"On Thursday, the White House said it was banning personal devices, including mobile phones, from the West Wing, citing security concerns."

They've been kicking this around for months, after every major or embarrassing leak. I'm surprised this didn't happen last spring.

Voss wrote:

I don't think this is going to turn out the way his people think. Actively taking censorship steps and trying to muzzle staffers is going to give all this credibility. Sadly I don't think 'Trump Country' is going to give a shit, even about this.

This all cracks me up. The basis of the cease and desist for Bannon was effectively "Dude! The NDA!". It's bad to the point that the C&D itself looks like a tacit admission of guilt.

Here's hoping Trump gets smacked down hard for a First Amendment violation.
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Maj
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 10:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Trump can't step down. His entire persona is being a winner. If he steps down, he's a loser.
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Voss
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 10:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Maj wrote:
Trump can't step down. His entire persona is being a winner. If he steps down, he's a loser.


Somewhat. I can see him getting to the point that he rationalizes it as winning in some fashion, and the country is 'unworthy' of him.

He's gone above and beyond in proving that he'll do anything, even if it is counter-intuitive, full of cognitive dissonance, wrong and utterly fucked up
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erik
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2018 12:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Voss wrote:

"On Thursday, the White House said it was banning personal devices, including mobile phones, from the West Wing, citing security concerns."


If they take away Trump's phone then it's a win for everyone.
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FrankTrollman
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2018 5:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I don't actually buy the "we didn't even want to win" story. Like, I get that the Brexiteers didn't want to win because Brexit can't work and the entire Leave campaign was about power grabs within the majority party. But if the Trumpists didn't want to win, why were they committing espionage to try to find something they could get Clinton arrested for all the way to the end?

The fact that they were committing actual crimes to fix the election in their favor gives the lie to the story that they weren't really trying to win for real.

-Frank
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tussock
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2018 10:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Yeah, it reads more like they didn't think they could win, so obviously that's only happening because they "didn't want to win anyway".

Just imagine a small child saying it. The rest of it is the usual, Trump doesn't read, Trump has no attention spam, Trump repeats himself constantly, Trump just demands whatever the person who talked to him last wanted and if it works out well it was his idea and he's a genius, but if it doesn't work out it was that other guy's idea and he's fired. He thinks there's "leaks" from somewhere, but it's just Trump forgetting what he's told people, because he just tells everyone all sorts of shit and then forgets he's said it, and it's "lies" because he only believed that for a few minutes after someone told him to and then forgot.

Awesome. How good is it that that crooked Clinton didn't win, eh?

It's also not terribly shocking to hear that the Nazi Bannon just wanted maximum chaos, kill the left by agitating them into going harder left, only oops it's still a democracy. Chaotic Evil people suck.
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MGuy
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2018 12:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

FrankTrollman wrote:
I don't actually buy the "we didn't even want to win" story. Like, I get that the Brexiteers didn't want to win because Brexit can't work and the entire Leave campaign was about power grabs within the majority party. But if the Trumpists didn't want to win, why were they committing espionage to try to find something they could get Clinton arrested for all the way to the end?

The fact that they were committing actual crimes to fix the election in their favor gives the lie to the story that they weren't really trying to win for real.

-Frank
Trump is an idiot who wants to appear like he's winning and his children are also idiots as far as I can tell. They didn't really know the implications of what they were doing and had to be told by people who did that that treason shit was bad. They are idiots though so they continued along with it probably because they are used to getting away with whatever illegal shit they do (which so far continues to be true). If the reports are accurate different people within Trump's team 'did' want them to win and do it with the Russians for personal reasons. I can believe, considering Trump's White House, that the team was full of people working at odds with each other because that's the kind of environment Trump promotes. I mean Trump did go on and prime his followers for what he probably thought was an inevitable loss, talking about how 'everything' is rigged. I believe wholly that for a good deal of the Right Wing, like most of the world, Trump's victory was unexpected. Not that it matters at this point.
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RobbyPants
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2018 2:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

In defiance of the cease and desist, the release date of Fire and Fury was just pushed up to today
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nockermensch
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2018 6:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

FrankTrollman wrote:
I don't actually buy the "we didn't even want to win" story. Like, I get that the Brexiteers didn't want to win because Brexit can't work and the entire Leave campaign was about power grabs within the majority party. But if the Trumpists didn't want to win, why were they committing espionage to try to find something they could get Clinton arrested for all the way to the end?

The fact that they were committing actual crimes to fix the election in their favor gives the lie to the story that they weren't really trying to win for real.

-Frank

I'm not convinced. Every actor in this out-of-control farce would still "win" something in a Clinton presidency.

  • Trump and others from his circle that ran just for the fame and connections would still have gained them, only without the pesky conflicts of interest to get in their way. (not that they care)
  • Mainstream Republicans would still have the majority on both of your houses and could just keep obstructing every single Clinton's initiative.
  • Bannon and others from the American Fascism camp would still have their narrative of a heroic populist fight versus the (((Deep State))) where the true patriots can still win if they just intimidate brown people a bit harder. A rag like Der StürmerBreibart actually runs better when they're on the opposition because they're outrage mills.
  • Putin would still enjoy a Clinton presidency plagued by emails emails emails, a hostile legislature and also a very pissed-off slice of the american public that would be stoked by Der StürmerBreibart's stab-in-the-back post-defeat narrative.

    Really, The Onion's silence about Fire and Fury is deafening. I'm kind of hoping that they'll report on it as they did with Schwarzenegger's 2003 gubernatorial race win ("Hollywood's Strongman Becomes Governor of World's 5th Largest Economy") when they simply reported on the facts, without making additional jokes.
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    Koumei
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    PostPosted: Sat Jan 06, 2018 3:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

    nockermensch wrote:

    Trump and others from his circle that ran just for the fame and connections would still have gained them, only without the pesky conflicts of interest to get in their way. (not that they care)


    In most cases though, they wouldn't have the kind of protections they currently have against going to jail (or worse) for various crimes committed in the process. That's a kind of risk you generally take only if you have to, in order to win.

    Quote:
    Bannon and others from the American Fascism camp would still have their narrative of a heroic populist fight versus the (((Deep State))) where the true patriots can still win if they just intimidate brown people a bit harder. A rag like Der StürmerBreibart actually runs better when they're on the opposition because they're outrage mills.


    This bit is super true. Losing the election would basically be "proof" that the whole thing is rigged against them and there are too many fake votes by the wrong sort of people.

    Quote:
    Putin would still enjoy a Clinton presidency plagued by emails emails emails, a hostile legislature and also a very pissed-off slice of the american public that would be stoked by Der StürmerBreibart's stab-in-the-back post-defeat narrative.


    Without tampering in the election, Putin could have enjoyed "Not a hardcore Republican who thinks it's still the Cold War" as president.
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    saithorthepyro
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    PostPosted: Sat Jan 06, 2018 5:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

    Koumei wrote:

    Quote:
    Putin would still enjoy a Clinton presidency plagued by emails emails emails, a hostile legislature and also a very pissed-off slice of the american public that would be stoked by Der StürmerBreibart's stab-in-the-back post-defeat narrative.


    Without tampering in the election, Putin could have enjoyed "Not a hardcore Republican who thinks it's still the Cold War" as president.


    I thought the consensus on here was that Trump is either collaborating with or puppeted by Putin, to the point where it's being investigated and one of them constantly leaks intelligence to the other, so how is Trump a "hardcore Republican who thinks it's still the Cold War"?
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    Koumei
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    PostPosted: Sat Jan 06, 2018 5:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

    No, I mean, that's what "everyone else running for Republican" was. Just by getting Trump nominated for Republicans, Putin basically made his money back. And he could have stopped there and played it safe. But he decided instead to go all-in, in a way that you wouldn't do if you weren't intending on winning.
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    Grek
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    PostPosted: Sat Jan 06, 2018 9:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

    I could almost believe that Trump's electoral team didn't give a shit about him winning, but it's very obvious that both Trump and Putin cared quite a bit about winning.
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    DrPraetor
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    PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 1:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

    Grek wrote:
    I could almost believe that Trump's electoral team didn't give a shit about him winning, but it's very obvious that both Trump and Putin cared quite a bit about winning.


    I admit that I'm skeptical of the "didn't want to win" narrative, but I certainly wouldn't say it's obviously false.

    For one thing, "didn't expect to win" is obviously true - if anything, Putin would've been more bearish on Trump even than the evidence indicated (because the conventional wisdom, let us recall, was that Clinton would be elected in a walk.) It's pretty unusual to lose the popular vote and still be elected, as Putin was aware.

    On from that, Trump has a complete lack of intellectual discipline (in case you hadn't noticed); meaning among other thing that the distinction between what he expects to happen and what he wants to happen is never entirely clear.

    In so far as this matters: Putin was almost certainly more concerned with weakening an eventual President Clinton than he was in actually getting Trump elected, not because of what he wanted but because of what looked achievable. This distinction matters a bit at the margins, and a clear-eyed view of events has intrinsic value, but the consequences of Putin's meddling in the campaign aren't much changed.
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    maglag
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    PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 5:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

    “Actually,” the president added, “throughout my life, my two greatest assets have been mental stability and being, like, really smart.”

    He also said he “would qualify as not smart, but genius ... and a very stable genius at that!”


    At this rate I expect the Trump to start calling himself the god-emperor by 2019.

    Also trivia, the Trump had already tried to run for president in 1999 for the Reform Party, but seems to have forgot that.

    Although the really scary question is that even if the Trump suffers an aneurysm and can thus be safely removed, the people waiting in line to replace him aren't exactly better.
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    erik
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    PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 6:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

    maglag wrote:
    Although the really scary question is that even if the Trump suffers an aneurysm and can thus be safely removed, the people waiting in line to replace him aren't exactly better.


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_line_of_succession#Current_order

    I about vomited in my mouth when I read the list. I mean I knew, but just seeing it.

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    Voss
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    PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 6:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

    maglag wrote:
    [url=https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/jan/06/donald-trump-tweets-mental-stability-fire-and-fury-michael-wolff]“Actually,” the president added, “throughout my life, my two greatest assets have been mental stability and being, like, really smart.”


    I get people inserting 'like' into verbal conversations when they're put on the spot. It's annoying, but it's essentially a learned/acquired social tic, not uncommon in people who lived in the US in the last quarter of the 20th century, especially if they grew up during that period. Given his age and where he lived, he shouldn't have it to the degree that he does. Did he pick it up from his older kids, and believes it to be 'hip' or something?

    But it's fucking bizarre to see someone insert it into text, even a tweet. It's either a really out-of-touch affectation, or something (more) is wrong with his brain.


    Though mental stability should seem a stretch to anyone paying attention. Given the number of times he's flatly contradicted his senior advisors on major issues (especially, international and military advisors), usually the next morning via Twitter, someone isn't paying attention, and the only common denominator is Trump.
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    Judging__Eagle
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    PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 6:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

    maglag wrote:


    Although the really scary question is that even if the Trump suffers an aneurysm and can thus be safely removed, the people waiting in line to replace him aren't exactly better.


    In some ways they're worse, Pence actually has some sort of political clout; and is even less socially liberal than Trump.

    Also, what I've been hearing on the CBC the last couple of days about Wolff's book being sold out in the US & Canada, and the allegations that Trump has made about Steven Bannon feel like we might be reaching peak-Trump doublethink.

  • Bannon is a mean, lying, liar; everything he said is a lie

    and

  • Bannon violated all the NDAs, forever muchly; everything he said, he signed documents to state that he wouldn't reveal I'm going to (say publicly that I will) sue him (but do nothing b/c I'm a blowhard who threatens to sue/go to court, but generally settles out of court).
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    tussock
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    PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 7:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

    He's writing in a conversational style. "Like" is used in the same sense as it is in conversation, here as an intensifier. He's not just really smart, he's, like, really smart.

    --

    I find the thing I keep coming back to from the latest revelations is that he doesn't seem to have much of a consistent world view. Things that make him feel bad in the moment are lies told by liars, while things that make him feel good in the moment are true and totally his own idea that he just thought of then and told you about.

    Does that have a name? It seems like a thing that should have a name.
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    CapnTthePirateG
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    PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 8:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

    tussock wrote:

    I find the thing I keep coming back to from the latest revelations is that he doesn't seem to have much of a consistent world view. Things that make him feel bad in the moment are lies told by liars, while things that make him feel good in the moment are true and totally his own idea that he just thought of then and told you about.

    Does that have a name? It seems like a thing that should have a name.


    Isn't that just narcissism?
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    Whipstitch
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    PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 9:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

    tussock wrote:
    He's writing in a conversational style. "Like" is used in the same sense as it is in conversation, here as an intensifier. He's not just really smart, he's, like, really smart.


    Yeah, I'm guilty of doing this in text but I do it precisely because it's stupid and annoying. For example, when Silva would post something super dumb I'd often pull out the extraneous "likes" because I wanted to communicate how his puzzling bullshit was breaking my brain. It's an affectation I'd steer away from if I was say, applying to work at Denny's instead of trying to condescend to one of you wonderful dick bags. It sure as fuck wouldn't come up if I was trying to defend my honor as the POTUS.
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    Chamomile
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    PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 9:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

    Even among Americans, extraneous "likes" indicates informalness and a certain air of quipping sarcasm. It can come across as playful or laid back in a friendly environment and dismissive or condescending in a more antagonistic one, but in all cases the message sent is a refusal to take things seriously, either in defiance of everyone else or not. Using it when bragging about his intelligence either indicates sarcastic self-deprecation, that he doesn't take the accusations seriously at all, or that he has no idea what that usage of the word communicates. Since we're specifically talking about Donald Trump, the first option is out.
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