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Kaelik
ArchDemon of Rage


Joined: 07 Mar 2008
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 03, 2017 4:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

The tax plan started with a list of tax cuts for the rich, then they had to invent a bunch of bullshit "payfors" so that they could claim they aren't running up the debt as much as they are/after 10 years, so they can pass it in reconciliation.
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Pseudo Stupidity
Knight-Baron


Joined: 02 Sep 2011
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 03, 2017 5:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

It is genuinely impressive how much everyone fucking hates the Republican tax plan.

All I know about it is the huge giveaways to the wealthy, the giant cut to corporate taxes, and that Ryan is selling it by saying it saves "the average family of four" (and while I'm sure families of four making $59,000 exist, I'm certain they're not actually common or any more likely to exist than other families) a little more than $1,000. Then it raises their taxes after 10 years because haha fuck you poors.
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Hicks
Duke


Joined: 27 Jul 2008
Posts: 1124
Location: Blytheville, AR

PostPosted: Fri Nov 03, 2017 6:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

As a former Wal-Mart assistant manager, I had a $45,000/year salary. I was part if a team of 7 assistant managers, 2 higher paid comanagers, and 1 even higher paid store manager. My superstore employed ~300 hourly associates, of which ~30 of which were actually full time getting the company average of $13.85/hour, the rest working 34.5 hours/week for under $11/hour. So as the former possessor of one of the highest paid positions any associate could aspire for in a company that is both the largest retailer and 3ed largest employer on the planet(just after the US military and the PRC military), how the fuck do I get in that $59,000 tax bracket. Literally you have to be a manager of managers of a store that does over 50 million dollars in buisness annually: only the top 3 paid people in my store could break into that, a literal top 1% tax cut as far as my experience goes.
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deaddmwalking
Duke


Joined: 21 May 2012
Posts: 1569

PostPosted: Fri Nov 03, 2017 6:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

It's based off of dual-income (primarily). You see, $59k is the Median HOUSEHOLD income in the United States. Half of all families make more than that; half make less. Clearly, if you have a salary of $45k and are the sole-earner in your household, you'd be below. But if you and your spouse both earned $45k you'd be at $90k and well above.

That said, the idea is to offer you $1k to let someone else get $1 MILLION dollars in reduced taxes. Of course, they're also going to cut services so you're going to spend more than $1k a year in additional expenses for SOMETHING that was previously covered by those taxes. But ultimately, the strategy isn't crazy. There's some amount of money that if you were to get back in the form of tax breaks, you wouldn't be angry at other people getting tax breaks, too. If you saved $10k, maybe you'd be willing to let someone else get $100k. But right now, it's insulting how little they're offering the middle class - especially since they're removing tax deductions that primarily benefit middle-class wage earners.

So, write your Congressperson. Let them know that you're not on board with the tax plan.

Edit - The median income of two full-time Walmart workers at $13.85/hour based on 2080 hours per year is near the median - $57,616.


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Pseudo Stupidity
Knight-Baron


Joined: 02 Sep 2011
Posts: 849

PostPosted: Fri Nov 03, 2017 6:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

My point wasn't about income, it was that a family of four making median household income isn't average at all and just something they pulled out of their ass to make their plan look good. The average US family is just 3.14 people anyways (and the average household is smaller than that), so the idea that a family of four is the average is fucking crazy.

The side joke is haha, Paul Ryan thinks people making median household income can afford to have children.

Edit: It's entirely possible Ryan got the idea from old sitcoms too. That's the other place where everyone has two kids.
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Kaelik
ArchDemon of Rage


Joined: 07 Mar 2008
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 03, 2017 7:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Hicks wrote:
As a former Wal-Mart assistant manager, I had a $45,000/year salary. I was part if a team of 7 assistant managers, 2 higher paid comanagers, and 1 even higher paid store manager. My superstore employed ~300 hourly associates, of which ~30 of which were actually full time getting the company average of $13.85/hour, the rest working 34.5 hours/week for under $11/hour. So as the former possessor of one of the highest paid positions any associate could aspire for in a company that is both the largest retailer and 3ed largest employer on the planet(just after the US military and the PRC military), how the fuck do I get in that $59,000 tax bracket. Literally you have to be a manager of managers of a store that does over 50 million dollars in buisness annually: only the top 3 paid people in my store could break into that, a literal top 1% tax cut as far as my experience goes.


Also you could work at any store that has a union, so they get paid better salaries. But you know, you'd have to work at a store that has a union, and because companies that screw their workers make more money, those stores don't become huge as fuck employers.
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deaddmwalking
Duke


Joined: 21 May 2012
Posts: 1569

PostPosted: Fri Nov 03, 2017 8:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I don't think that a family of four making $59k is outside of average. I know that the median household size is 2.58 people per household, so 'family of 3' might have been more appropriate, although they probably weren't trying to appeal to singles at all, anyway, so if you disregard individuals living alone, it probably isn't too crazy. But seriously, if all they can say is it saves $1k, they're really going to be bad. CBO will have to score it, but I expect most families of four earning $59k will not save because they'll lose deductions they use today.
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erik
Prince


Joined: 07 Mar 2008
Posts: 4912

PostPosted: Sat Nov 04, 2017 9:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

My household is a family of 4 and pretty derned close to annual income of 59k (I think a bit under but it wouldn't shock me if we passed it this year either), so we do exist. And I have to say Paul Ryan has a very punchable face. I'm not a violent person, but ghosts be damned if this nose doesn't look like a fist magnet to me.

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MGuy
Prince


Joined: 21 Jul 2009
Posts: 3417
Location: Indiana

PostPosted: Sat Nov 04, 2017 11:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

So sane people aside how are the "forgotten middle class" people Trump conned taking the news that they have indeed not been forgotten but are being robbed in broad daylight? I've heard that the national opinion on the tax change is similar to the whole healthcare debacle but speaking about 'just' the Trump supporters, anyone know what the collective mood is?
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Voss
Prince


Joined: 07 Mar 2008
Posts: 3744

PostPosted: Sun Nov 05, 2017 6:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Probably ignorance and indifference if we're being perfectly honest.
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angelfromanotherpin
King


Joined: 07 Mar 2008
Posts: 7423

PostPosted: Sun Nov 05, 2017 4:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

This is surreal.
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Ancient History
Invincible Overlord


Joined: 18 Aug 2010
Posts: 11323

PostPosted: Sun Nov 05, 2017 11:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

This. Is. Sparta America Trumplandia!

https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-gets-visas-70-foreign-212915468.html
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RobbyPants
Prince


Joined: 06 Aug 2008
Posts: 4449

PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 12:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Manfort's attorney plans to challenge Mueller's authority
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EightWave
NPC


Joined: 23 Sep 2017
Posts: 17

PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 7:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Voss wrote:
Probably ignorance and indifference if we're being perfectly honest.
I mean obviously ignorance, the Republican party has thrived on massive amounts of ignorance in terms of what they promise they're going to accomplish vs what they actually accomplish.

But in the case of Trump lots of people still support him entirely through the sunk cost fallacy: admitting he's a piece of shit means admitting they got tricked by a piece of shit, and they're not having that.

The Alabama special election was proof that he has essentially no leadership power over his "supporters", and if the midterm elections go against the Republicans (which it almost certainly will) expect a lot more Republicans in the House and Senate to start calling him a shitbag.


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Ancient History
Invincible Overlord


Joined: 18 Aug 2010
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 1:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2017-kushners-china-deal-flop-was-part-of-much-bigger-hunt-for-cash/
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Shatner
Knight-Baron


Joined: 07 Mar 2008
Posts: 859

PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 4:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

An interesting FiveThirtyEight article about a county in Iowa that voted for Obama by more than 20 points in 2012 and by more than 20 points for Trump in 2016. Interesting and frustrating.

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FrankTrollman
Serious Badass


Joined: 07 Mar 2008
Posts: 27064

PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 7:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

So evil bigot Roy Moore, the Republican senate candidate in the upcoming Alabama special election has been accussed of child molestation by multiple victims. For the first time since Roy Moore won the Republican primary, I have hope that he might lose.

-Frank
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angelfromanotherpin
King


Joined: 07 Mar 2008
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 9:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

https://twitter.com/ddale8/status/928734837887954950
Quote:
After a long pause, Alabama Bibb County Republican chairman Jerry Pow tells me he'd vote for Roy Moore even if Moore did commit a sex crime against a girl.

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hyzmarca
Prince


Joined: 14 Mar 2011
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 9:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Honestly, I can't really disagree with the sentiment.

There comes a point where the personal crimes of a candidate are less important than his policies.

From a purely practical point of view, if the two candidates are Joe the Child Molester, who supports policies that I like, and Literally Hitler, who runs on a platform of invading Poland to get more breathing room, I'd have to vote for the child molester, just as a matter of practicality. Because whatever he does in his personal life is small potatoes compared to starting World War II.

And, really, protest votes are among the things that got us Trump in the first place.

Now, Roy Moore doesn't have any policies that I agree with, so I'd hope that he loses, but ultimately, I can't blame Pow for the party solidarity. I'd have to blame him for picking the wrong party, instead.
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erik
Prince


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 10:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I don't think his crimes will flip many votes, but I expect republican turnout and support will be harmed by it. It's not easy to say "don't blame me, I voted for the child molester".
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MGuy
Prince


Joined: 21 Jul 2009
Posts: 3417
Location: Indiana

PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 1:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

It is easy for them to say "fake news" and "liberal propaganda". Denial and doubt are the two initial responses for them whenever new allegations of anything come about unless it's about the evil brown people.
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Hiram McDaniels
Knight


Joined: 15 Sep 2014
Posts: 307

PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 6:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Shatner wrote:
An interesting FiveThirtyEight article about a county in Iowa that voted for Obama by more than 20 points in 2012 and by more than 20 points for Trump in 2016. Interesting and frustrating.


It's Alabama, Frank. He could walk onto stage with an infant speared on the end of his dick and smoking a rolled up copy of the US constitution, and a plurality of the electorate in that state would still find him more palatable than anyone with a D next to their name.

Hell, there's that Alabama state auditor who stuck up for Moore not by denying that the alleged abuse actually happened, but by questioning whether that sort of abuse is actually wrong in the first place. Afterall, Mary was Joseph's child bride and they had Jesus!

Not to mention that on social media the what-about-ers are in full force, bleating: "Yeah but Harvey Weinstein! Yeah but Kevin Spacey! Yeah but Uranium One! Yeah but Benghazi!

The best we can hope for is Moore steps down too late for his name to be removed from the paper ballots, and no one has the wherewithal to organize a successful write-in campaign, so Doug Jones wins by forfeit.
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deaddmwalking
Duke


Joined: 21 May 2012
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 4:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

It is too late for his name to be removed from the ballot. If he dropped out, presumably Luther Strange would be the write-in candidate that would have the best chance of winning.
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FrankTrollman
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Joined: 07 Mar 2008
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 6:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

deaddmwalking wrote:
It is too late for his name to be removed from the ballot. If he dropped out, presumably Luther Strange would be the write-in candidate that would have the best chance of winning.


Quote:
Not enough of the people in Alabama who vote Republican can write, so a write-in campaign is almost certainly a no go.


Hence why Sean Hannity is on TV claiming that because Alabama has a low age of consent, that there's no problem with a middle aged man molesting teenage girls rather than suddenly remembering why Dear Leader wanted everyone to support Strange in the first place.

-Frank
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RobbyPants
Prince


Joined: 06 Aug 2008
Posts: 4449

PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 9:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Mueller can cancel the investigation. Trump personally asked Putin if Russia meddled in the election, he said “no”, and Trump said he believed him. Done and done, since apparently, lying is impossible.
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