The Gaming Den Forum Index The Gaming Den
Welcome to the Gaming Den.
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Google
 Search WWW   Search tgdmb.com 
Power Source For Combat Mechs
Goto page 1, 2, 3  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    The Gaming Den Forum Index -> In My Humble Opinion...
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Hiram McDaniels
Master


Joined: 15 Sep 2014
Posts: 288

PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2016 2:47 am    Post subject: Power Source For Combat Mechs Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I want to make a mecha combat game; one that plays fast at the table and feels like the mecha anime that I watch rather than being a clunky math monster like other games of this ilk. However, my first big roadblock is the actual world building part; specifically the logistical details.

I'd like to figure out, first and foremost, what actual powers the mechs. Preferably something that looks like science if you squint hard enough. Personally I'd be perfectly ok with some sort of applied phlebotinum like your Shizuma drives or your Macguffin crystals, because from an engineering and strategic standpoint, giant humanoid mechs are stupid anyway. That said, I feel like I should have something at least superficially plausible because that shit WILL come up in game and it kind of informs everything else about the setting.

So here's what I've got so far, looking at the mecha anime I'm familiar with:

Gundams; from fucking Gundam - powered by fusion reactors. The obvious downsides of which are explained away via "minovsky particles".

Valkyries; from Macross - powered by good, old-fashioned jet fuel.

Aestavalis; from Martian Successor Nadesico - powered by broadcast energy.

Evangelion; from Duh! - Powered by external power chords and short duration batteries. And sometimes rage.

Iron Man - from Marvel Comics - powered by ARC reactor. Some sort of electromagnetic atom smasher if I remember correctly, but requires a radioactive isotope of palladium for some reason? And can be built in a cave with a hammer rather than a clean room with diffusion modules and atomic layer deposition machines somehow? I'm clearly not a physicist.

So far I like the Arc Reactor the best, because it has broader implications for the setting. In the marvel movies, the Arc reactor is a clean energy source that can power a suit of armor if it's small enough, or an entire city if it's large enough. I'd like something that requires some sort of rare element to work, which can then be used as a macguffin to fuel adventures.

Any other good ones out there that I'm missing? Any mechs powered by cold fusion?
_________________
The most dangerous game is man. The most entertaining game is Broadway Puppy Ball. The most weird game is Esoteric Bear.


Last edited by Hiram McDaniels on Tue Dec 20, 2016 2:52 am; edited 2 times in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
erik
Prince


Joined: 07 Mar 2008
Posts: 4835

PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2016 3:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Nuclear Fission too maybe?

I used arc reactor-esque power (which I think is supposed to be fusion) in Nexus. I enjoyed getting to use pseudo-palladium alloy (RhAg core) as my substrate.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
OgreBattle
Prince


Joined: 03 Sep 2011
Posts: 4961

PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2016 3:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Gundam's Minovsky particles interfere with radar and such so combat with giant robots is at visual range, so the best power source for warfare also makes war more personal.

Other Gundam series have equiavelents like Iron Blood's Ahab reactors. In that setting the Ahab reactors aren't allowed for regular civilian use because they interfere with wireless communication.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
maglag
Duke


Joined: 02 Apr 2015
Posts: 1067

PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2016 3:28 am    Post subject: Re: Power Source For Combat Mechs Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Hiram McDaniels wrote:

Iron Man - from Marvel Comics - powered by ARC reactor. Some sort of electromagnetic atom smasher if I remember correctly, but requires a radioactive isotope of palladium for some reason? And can be built in a cave with a hammer rather than a clean room with diffusion modules and atomic layer deposition machines somehow? I'm clearly not a physicist.

Can we stop with that meme please?

It was not a cave and a hammer, it was an underground workshop for the terrorrist organization, geared with a crapload of "donated" military high-tech.

Hiram McDaniels wrote:

So far I like the Arc Reactor the best, because it has broader implications for the setting. In the marvel movies, the Arc reactor is a clean energy source that can power a suit of armor if it's small enough, or an entire city if it's large enough. I'd like something that requires some sort of rare element to work, which can then be used as a macguffin to fuel adventures.

Actually if you do the physic's math, Iron Man's suit already outputs pretty much the equivalent of three nuclear centrals aka more than enough to power up a small country, let alone a city.

Tony Stark could solve the world's energy problems overnight, but he doesn't because he's a drunk dick. Or the uber capitalist, take your pick.

Hiram McDaniels wrote:

Any other good ones out there that I'm missing? Any mechs powered by cold fusion?


Most Gundams already use Cold Fusion. The "cold" is relative to the heat you would normally need to produce fusion in the first place.

Not taking in account super robots like Mazinger's Photon energy or Getter Robo's Getter Rays (or New Getter Robo's plasma reactor), turn A Gundam uses a miniature black hole.


OgreBattle wrote:
Gundam's Minovsky particles interfere with radar and such so combat with giant robots is at visual range, so the best power source for warfare also makes war more personal.

Other Gundam series have equiavelents like Iron Blood's Ahab reactors. In that setting the Ahab reactors aren't allowed for regular civilian use because they interfere with wireless communication.


That show's main Gundam first shows up being used as an improvised reactor for the base of a private mercenary organization. And they don't seem to have any trouble keeping communications with each other or receiving job offers and whatnot.
_________________
FrankTrollman wrote:

Actually, our blood banking system is set up exactly the way you'd want it to be if you were a secret vampire conspiracy.


Last edited by maglag on Tue Dec 20, 2016 3:37 am; edited 3 times in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
erik
Prince


Joined: 07 Mar 2008
Posts: 4835

PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2016 3:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

maglag wrote:
It was not a cave and a hammer




I fucking hate this post-fact world.

Anywho, if you could've made it to the end of the sentence you are referencing here, you'd see Hiram mention a clean room with diffusion modules and atomic layer deposition machines. Whatever toys were in that cave, it wasn't clean, and the tools were fairly rudimentary.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
PhoneLobster
King


Joined: 07 Mar 2008
Posts: 6199

PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2016 3:55 am    Post subject: Re: Power Source For Combat Mechs Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Hiram McDaniels wrote:
However, my first big roadblock is the actual world building part; specifically the logistical details.

Fluff?

Fluff was your first "big" roadblock?

Not even like "well If I go with this option it will nicely describe one set of mechanical options, while if I go with this other option it would nicely describe this different way for the game mechanics for mecha to work..." but instead just "My thingabobs will be powered with fairly bland and abstract whatsits and I just can't decide on what to call the (game mechanically indistinguishable) fuel that goes into the whatsits".

Just make a fucking decision and move onto something that actually matters.
_________________
Phonelobster's Self Proclaimed Greatest Hits Collection : (no really, they are awesome)
Click here to see the hidden message (It might contain spoilers)


Last edited by PhoneLobster on Tue Dec 20, 2016 3:56 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Mechalich
Knight-Baron


Joined: 04 Nov 2015
Posts: 642

PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2016 5:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Keep in mind that generally, if you're being consistent, anything you use to power a mech can also power a tank or some other more efficient form of ground vehicle that can have heavier armor and weaponry in the same package. Mecha, played with any level of strategic and tactical realism, are situational weapons designed for battlefield environments that are not conductive to tanks: like urban combat or rough terrain such as mountains and swampy areas.

One of the most realistic portrayals of mecha combat in anime is in the (very weird) Gasaraki. Those units have conventional power but 'synthetic muscle' phlebotinum that allows for humanoid movement patterns without the cumbersome burden of countless heavy motors at every joint - which is one of the major engineering impediments to having via mecha.

Quote:
So far I like the Arc Reactor the best, because it has broader implications for the setting. In the marvel movies, the Arc reactor is a clean energy source that can power a suit of armor if it's small enough, or an entire city if it's large enough. I'd like something that requires some sort of rare element to work, which can then be used as a macguffin to fuel adventures.


Since nothing on Earth is actually rare enough to serve as such a McGuffin for this scenario and because this is a particle physics approach, the standard answer (and the one used in Iron Man 2) is that you need a new element, probably from the fabled island of stability region of the Periodic Table, to run some kind of super-awesome and super-clean radioisotope power cell (the thing Matt Damon was using in The Martian). That's basically a super-battery, but it needs either some sort of dedicated infrastructure with big particle accelerators to charge it up over time, or McGuffinite to be charged up.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Hiram McDaniels
Master


Joined: 15 Sep 2014
Posts: 288

PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2016 5:03 am    Post subject: Re: Power Source For Combat Mechs Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

PhoneLobster wrote:
Hiram McDaniels wrote:
However, my first big roadblock is the actual world building part; specifically the logistical details.

Fluff?

Fluff was your first "big" roadblock?

Not even like "well If I go with this option it will nicely describe one set of mechanical options, while if I go with this other option it would nicely describe this different way for the game mechanics for mecha to work..." but instead just "My thingabobs will be powered with fairly bland and abstract whatsits and I just can't decide on what to call the (game mechanically indistinguishable) fuel that goes into the whatsits".

Just make a fucking decision and move onto something that actually matters.


Okay. Mechs are powered by your mom's pussy farts. Now to figure out if combat happens in turns or phases...
_________________
The most dangerous game is man. The most entertaining game is Broadway Puppy Ball. The most weird game is Esoteric Bear.


Last edited by Hiram McDaniels on Wed Dec 21, 2016 1:26 am; edited 2 times in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Hiram McDaniels
Master


Joined: 15 Sep 2014
Posts: 288

PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2016 5:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

erik wrote:
Nuclear Fission too maybe?

I used arc reactor-esque power (which I think is supposed to be fusion) in Nexus. I enjoyed getting to use pseudo-palladium alloy (RhAg core) as my substrate.


Actually, what I'm looking for is something that can be safely miniaturized to power mechs and trucks, and expanded to power citywide power grids or even interstellar travel (via space fold).

So I'm thinking ARC reactor, or maybe something that harnesses anti-matter or dark energy.

Of course none of this technology actually exists. Again, I'm just looking for something superficially plausible.
_________________
The most dangerous game is man. The most entertaining game is Broadway Puppy Ball. The most weird game is Esoteric Bear.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Mechalich
Knight-Baron


Joined: 04 Nov 2015
Posts: 642

PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2016 5:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Quote:
I want to make a mecha combat game; one that plays fast at the table and feels like the mecha anime that I watch rather than being a clunky math monster like other games of this ilk. However, my first big roadblock is the actual world building part; specifically the logistical details.


Thinking on this further, it actually occurs to me that you need to decide if you want you mecha to perform as really big machines, or really big people. The latter approach is actually faster and its how a lot of anime-style mecha, especially mecha that aren't actually machines like Evangelion, function.

If you go that route, you can model your mecha using whatever set of standard modern combat rules you want and have them take damage as if everyone is playing Ant-Man gone big (you could actually go that route literally, Power Rangers does with its monsters). You just need to model some extra rules for rampaging across the environment at giant size.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Hiram McDaniels
Master


Joined: 15 Sep 2014
Posts: 288

PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2016 5:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Mechalich wrote:
Quote:
I want to make a mecha combat game; one that plays fast at the table and feels like the mecha anime that I watch rather than being a clunky math monster like other games of this ilk. However, my first big roadblock is the actual world building part; specifically the logistical details.


Thinking on this further, it actually occurs to me that you need to decide if you want you mecha to perform as really big machines, or really big people. The latter approach is actually faster and its how a lot of anime-style mecha, especially mecha that aren't actually machines like Evangelion, function.

If you go that route, you can model your mecha using whatever set of standard modern combat rules you want and have them take damage as if everyone is playing Ant-Man gone big (you could actually go that route literally, Power Rangers does with its monsters). You just need to model some extra rules for rampaging across the environment at giant size.


That's a good point.

I want them to operate as machines probably, because my primary influence are Gundam, Macross, Votoms, etc. rather than Evangelion or Mazinger. But I want it to play fast at the table, because mecha dog fights in those shows are fast and furious, rather than playing like a Mechwarrior PC game from the 90's. I don't know if this approach necessitates a bunch of clunky rules procedures though, or if I can still keep it pretty light.
_________________
The most dangerous game is man. The most entertaining game is Broadway Puppy Ball. The most weird game is Esoteric Bear.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
erik
Prince


Joined: 07 Mar 2008
Posts: 4835

PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2016 12:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Hiram McDaniels wrote:
erik wrote:
Nuclear Fission too maybe?

I used arc reactor-esque power (which I think is supposed to be fusion) in Nexus. I enjoyed getting to use pseudo-palladium alloy (RhAg core) as my substrate.


Actually, what I'm looking for is something that can be safely miniaturized to power mechs and trucks, and expanded to power citywide power grids or even interstellar travel.


Hey it was good enough for Gipsy Danger. I figure you get more latitude on what is feasible when you allow giant robots, which on their very face are not feasible or even superior to fighter jets.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
deaddmwalking
Duke


Joined: 21 May 2012
Posts: 1465

PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2016 1:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

My suggestion is to have an older technology that was used when mechs were first developed. They are larger and more cumbersome, but they include more weapon mounts. A smaller version of the powersource now allows for much smaller mechs - some even suit sized.

While you don't want to do a lot of number crunching at the table, a small, fast, mech would be very good against infantry and could go anywhere that a normal PC could go - the larger mechs definitely provide more of a 'vehicle experience'.

I'd recommend large fusion reactors for the larger mechs. Those would also be used to power cities. Once you have reliable fusion, you don't need giant 'arc reactors'. The newer mechs with the miniature power source should probably use some type of super-efficient battery that does require periodic charging. Thus a major advantage of the cumbersome suits is that you can just add seawater and keep going. The smaller suits require organization support.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
FrankTrollman
Serious Badass


Joined: 07 Mar 2008
Posts: 26888

PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2016 1:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

The Evas in Evangelion are actually demons that are restrained and puppeted around with neural stimulators. The big power cables supply the marrionette strings, the Eva itself is powered by the big crystaline soul. The mechas in Gurren Lagann are metallic cancers powered by spirals that drill into inert matter to cobble together ever large mechs.

Practically speaking you can play madlibs with Russian, German, or Japanese sounding names followed by a technical noun like engine, reaction, particle, or process. And then you can announce that whatever technobbling you've put together is why your mechs work however they do.

What's actually important is the logistical concerns. How much range do your mechs have from base? How much does it take to keep the base supplied? That sort of thing.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
mlangsdorf
Master


Joined: 06 Jun 2008
Posts: 214

PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2016 2:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Have you looked at DP9's Heavy Gear? It's not a perfect system, but it plays fairly fast and could be strip mined for ideas.

How big are the mecha in your games? Heavy Gears are roughly 5 meters tall and powered by gasoline engines. I've run games with similar sized vehicles and claimed the mecha were had hydrocarbon generators running electric motors and no one batted an eye.

I have to agree with the others that the power source is minor fluff and you should really be focused on the mechanics.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Eikre
Knight


Joined: 03 Aug 2009
Posts: 477

PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2016 6:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Can I just say I fucking love Heavy Gear? I haven't actually played the tabletop game, but the PC games somehow fell into my lap before MechWarrior ever got to me.

From what I figure, though, the whole fucking thing is a response to BattleTech indulgence. Gear are much more practically sized, and their popularity is derived from their use as highly multi-functional pioneering vehicles with an outsized backlog of efficiency-minded engineering instead of as implausible super-weapons.

So in BattleTech you've got these heirloom tanks-on-legs that are all sworn to noble houses, and in Heavy Gear you've just got weaponized tractors and ersatz professional wrestling.

Owns.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
SeekritLurker
NPC


Joined: 02 Feb 2016
Posts: 2

PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2016 9:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Long-time Den reader, first time poster. But this is totally a thing I like.

If you haven't yet looked, Mekton Zeta is nominally the system for fast-paced mecha - but it does have many, many failure points. Might be worth strip-mining for ideas, but it's got much system weirdness, a pair of god stats, and a combat system that has two defense rolls for every attack roll.

(Supposedly, there was a kickstarter for a new edition, but I'll believe it when I see it.)

I think that the matter of scaling has a relatively obvious solution - your ARC reactor is big, very big, and does not generate electrical power directly, but some kind of exotic power. The old-style mechs are big and slow and cumbersome because they have the reactors onboard, but the new ones use specialized batteries for their operations.

Really big reactors power starships into FTL speeds. Medium ones power cities. Small-ish ones are attached to your mobile hangar ship, and can charge up a half-dozen mechs. The stuff to build them is rare, expensive, difficult to extract and many sources of your phlebotonium are exhausted - which gives you mines to capture, and incentivizes capturing certain assets over destroying them. It gives you a home-base for your PCs and their NPC buddies, one that might be mobile.

Second the Gasaraki suggestion - they're pretty solid in the 'realistic mechs that then proceed to do some relatively implausible things' category.

So, you have *dilithium* engines that process *dark energy* to power mechs. Only three *dilithium* mines still exist, and one is controlled by a corporation that sells to all sides of your war scenario. And it gives you a plausible oversized gigantic reactor-powered boss fight for your battery-powered protagonists.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Whipstitch
Prince


Joined: 29 Apr 2011
Posts: 2900

PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2016 9:18 pm    Post subject: Re: Power Source For Combat Mechs Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Hiram McDaniels wrote:
I'd like something that requires some sort of rare element to work, which can then be used as a macguffin to fuel adventures.


That and gundanium style bullshit can be used as an excuse to have factions operating with slightly different tech levels and tactics if you wanted to go that route. A small faction with lots of unobtainium could heavily rely on easily maintained but expensive to produce elite mecha units while a big faction with little unobtainium might field more mooks conventional units to compensate. That's a decent bit of flavor if you're making the sort of game where people are throwing competing army lists at each other and it's an excuse to handwave a lot of logistical concerns if you're building this as an RPG where the PCs just happen to be ace mecha pilots in an elite unit instead of wizards.
_________________
bears fall, everyone dies


Last edited by Whipstitch on Tue Dec 20, 2016 9:20 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Dogbert
Knight-Baron


Joined: 21 Apr 2011
Posts: 653

PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2016 2:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Telepower is the future (at least for portable gadgets).

You can always resort to matter reactors (produce anti-matter, mix with whatever (preferably waste) and syphon the energy produced from the reaction on contact.

If your mechs are gonna fight in space and are big enough, you can consider gravitomagnetic induction.

Anarchy Online is based around this planet flooded with this energy (notum) that could easily be syphoned from the air and allowed you to power whole cities inexpensively (later in the game you find out the notum comes from a dimensional rift, and it turns out you have been feeding off a neighbouring universe all this time, and you're about to suck it dry and destroy it).

Also, the best phlebotinum is that with just the right amount of real stuff in it. Just take whatever fancies you about high-energy physics and then come out with a phlebotinum to twist an otherwise impossible principle in order to get infinite energy.
_________________


Last edited by Dogbert on Wed Dec 21, 2016 2:34 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Stahlseele
Prince


Joined: 14 Apr 2010
Posts: 4804
Location: Hamburg, Germany

PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2016 10:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Battletech uses Fusion Reactors.
Magnet Bottles, Plasma, all that Jazz minaturized to a few / several Meters.

Industrial Mechs in Battletech use Super-Capacitators and Fuel Burning Engines ala Steam-Punk to power onboard electrical Motors.

These do NOT work like your typical Mecha.
They are lumbering heavy, awkward machines that stalk around the battlefields. No gymnastics. No fancy moves. They can "jump" by expelling superheated "steam"/quicksilver reaction mass from special vents after having lead it by the main reactor core. Still not gracefull. It's the brick approachh of MORE POWER! to make them rise a few dozend meters into the air and then basically plummet back down to the ground.

Due to a thing called Lostech, most of these machines are decades old as well. There are still new ones being made, but only few and far between, usually one every few weeks or so. Automated factories spitting out stuff.

Most of these DO NOT actually belong to some noble, but to the militaries of the Great Houses. And Mercenary Units. And Corporate Military. But there are still some in Family Possession, not neccessarely Nobles either, but of course some Nobles also own their own Mechs.
_________________
Welcome, to IronHell.
Click here to see the hidden message (It might contain spoilers)


Last edited by Stahlseele on Wed Dec 21, 2016 10:55 am; edited 4 times in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Hiram McDaniels
Master


Joined: 15 Sep 2014
Posts: 288

PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2016 2:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

FrankTrollman wrote:
What's actually important is the logistical concerns. How much range do your mechs have from base? How much does it take to keep the base supplied? That sort of thing.


Mechs operate within a relatively short distance from carrier ships, space stations and terrestrial bases. They're not meant for cross country travel. I envision a mech as being able to just maybe make it from say, LA to San Francisco.

I hadn't even really thought about supply logistics. I supposed that most orbital stations have fully functioning biodomes to grow their own produce and proteins, while merchant and supply ships make a regular route for other goods, but that's got me thinking about time dilation which gives me a headache. I wonder if I can just gloss over that like every space opera does.

mlangsdorf wrote:
Have you looked at DP9's Heavy Gear? It's not a perfect system, but it plays fairly fast and could be strip mined for ideas.

How big are the mecha in your games? Heavy Gears are roughly 5 meters tall and powered by gasoline engines. I've run games with similar sized vehicles and claimed the mecha were had hydrocarbon generators running electric motors and no one batted an eye.

I have to agree with the others that the power source is minor fluff and you should really be focused on the mechanics.


Mecha in my game are on the smaller side, maybe ~7-8 meters tall, and lighter due to utilizing light weight alloys for the skeleton and carbon fiber for the armor plating.

Going back to what someone asked about them acting like a machine, or like a person: I definitely want a pilot in the cockpit operating levers, yokes and petals like a guy driving a forklift, but I want them to handle swiftly and acutely.

I'll look at some of the other mech games like Mexton Zeta and Heavy Gear for ideas, but I definitely have my own for mechanics.

SeekritLurker wrote:

So, you have *dilithium* engines that process *dark energy* to power mechs. Only three *dilithium* mines still exist, and one is controlled by a corporation that sells to all sides of your war scenario. And it gives you a plausible oversized gigantic reactor-powered boss fight for your battery-powered protagonists.


Dilithium is a thing that actually exists, but it's just two bonded lithium atoms rather than the crystals that Star Trek suggests. I could see the mechs running off of a dilithium ion battery of some sort, kind of like a future version of the Tesla motor.
_________________
The most dangerous game is man. The most entertaining game is Broadway Puppy Ball. The most weird game is Esoteric Bear.


Last edited by Hiram McDaniels on Thu Dec 22, 2016 3:12 am; edited 4 times in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Mechalich
Knight-Baron


Joined: 04 Nov 2015
Posts: 642

PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2016 4:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Quote:
They're not meant for cross country travel. I envision a mech as being able to just maybe make it from say, LA to San Francisco.


That's a distance of roughly 400 miles (depending on route), which is considerably further than the operational range of an M1A1 Abrams Tank (265 miles). Might want to downgrade that a bit.

Quote:
Going back to what someone asked about them acting like a machine, or like a person: I definitely want a pilot in the cockpit operating levers, yokes and petals like a guy driving a forklift, but I want them to handle swiftly and acutely.


Those are somewhat contradictory impulses. Have you watched a guy drive a forklift? I've been there, swift and acute aren't really the words that come to mind. Forklifts can move fast and turn with shocking rapidity, but operators generally avoid driving and moving the forks at the same time and there's a lot of herky-jerky maneuvering when handling actual loads.

Still, with joysticks, pedals, and an integrated feedback system, such obstacles can be overcome. Presumably your mechs have a really good autonomous walking capability so pilots are only worried about direction and speed, not making the legs move. The big limit I see with mechanical control is hands: your mechs aren't going to have moveable hands (at least not that they use in combat), and in fact are probably going to be more like MechWarrior type mechs in that they just have weapon mounts there. At best you're probably getting manual pincers or hooks, or maybe fixed hands that can be changed out to handle different kinds of weaponry.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Stahlseele
Prince


Joined: 14 Apr 2010
Posts: 4804
Location: Hamburg, Germany

PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2016 7:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Errr . . the whole POINT of Mecha was to make something that could handle harder terrain better than hovercraft, wheeled and tracked vehicles . .
So yes, of course they are good to go hiking in, if they can actually use the trees and rocks that would have been in the other vehicles way to help them get further along by pulling themselves up with giant mechanical manos of destiny.
If they have a built in reactor or any kind of energy source that does not need to be refilled every x time then they are completely independently operating units. Aside from Ammo of course. But even if that were the case, you could just as easy if not easier fly the needed materials out to the mechs instead of having them turn around at 50% capacity because they need the remaining 50% to get back home. EVA started out tethered to the ground by an electrical umbilical cord, but even they got upgraded to run wirelessly in the production models.
_________________
Welcome, to IronHell.
Click here to see the hidden message (It might contain spoilers)


Last edited by Stahlseele on Thu Dec 22, 2016 7:24 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Judging__Eagle
Prince


Joined: 07 Mar 2008
Posts: 4466
Location: Lake Ontario is in my backyard; Canada

PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2016 8:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

It's true that the human body is great at getting around broken terrain; but there's just no tactical place for a bipedal vehicle in the non-urban combat theatres. Mostly due to their high vertical profile making them an overly visible target from very far away. Additionally, due to the fact that such a vehicles locomotion systems may be even more bogged down in rough terrain than traditional vehicles; which will almost likely have superior mass distribution on 3+ locomotion points that are in constant contact with the ground (and probably lower mass on each point of contact) than a bipedal vehicle ever could (it's not just both feet that will need to be able to hold up the mech w/out sinking/slipping while moving over rough ground; each leg will have to be capable to doing that; without an other leg to help compensate).

Really, only as conflicts become more and more urban, does a bipedal vehicle make more and more sense. Their prominent vertical profile is less of a liability in an urban environment due to the fact that the surrounding environment is almost nothing except vertical structures; and their specific form of locomotion (and smaller horizontal/lateral profiles) allows for maneuvers that would not be possible for traditional vehicles (such as 180 turns without needing to make a 3-point or U-turn).

Even then; it's unlikely that we'll see "true" bipedal vehicles (barring S.Korea's Method-1 project); as both Kuratas (Japan) and Megabot (US) are not so much "legged"; as they are "vertical vehicles" (Kuratas uses four Masamune Shirowesque "leg-mounted wheels"; and Megabot is (currently) using plain old dual caterpillar treads).
_________________
Click here to see the hidden message (It might contain spoilers)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Stahlseele
Prince


Joined: 14 Apr 2010
Posts: 4804
Location: Hamburg, Germany

PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2016 9:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

2 legs: baaad.
4+ legs and manipulator arms: good!
_________________
Welcome, to IronHell.
Click here to see the hidden message (It might contain spoilers)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    The Gaming Den Forum Index -> In My Humble Opinion... All times are GMT
Goto page 1, 2, 3  Next
Page 1 of 3

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum




Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group