Who is the most famous wizard in D&D?

Neurosis · Post by **Neurosis** » Wed Sep 21, 2016 6:36 pm

My guess would be that Elminster tops the list, even though I've never read or played any Forgotten Realms. I'd guess that Raistlin Majere is a close second, though I've DM'd a lot of Dragonlance.

And I'd guess that the various uber-wizards of the Greyhawk setting (let's call them Tenser et al.--you know the motherfuckers, they've got spells named after them in core and are based on good old Gary's friends and PCs, a LOT of whom TELLINGLY played wizards) coming in third...maybe even a distant third. I've DM'd a fair bit of Greyhawk. (I even ran Tenser as an NPC in a scene where it was necessary and appropriate to do so (he cast legend lore on one part of the rod of seven parts as I recall.)

I'd guess that Eberron et al. not even having a meaningful runner up. As a matter of fact, I think Fistandantilus and Magius might show up on the list before anyone from a setting other than FR, DL, or Greyhawk.

But that's all a guess based on basically nothing. I would not describe myself as plugged into the D&D fandom.

You guys are the closest thing I have to actual data. Please assist me.

Neurosis · Post by **Neurosis** » Wed Sep 21, 2016 6:41 pm

Oh, I somehow have managed to find a cave deep enough to live in to know almost nothing about Dragonlance after the War of the Lance, so if you're going to post DL spoilers, please put them in spoiler tags. Thanks!

angelfromanotherpin · Post by **angelfromanotherpin** » Wed Sep 21, 2016 7:10 pm

I would think that the most famous would be Presto.

sendaz · Post by **sendaz** » Wed Sep 21, 2016 7:17 pm

Merlin.

Yep, good old Merlin.

They rolled him out with original Deities & Demi-Gods in 1st edition and in Legends & Lore for 2nd, though they dropped all the Arthurian stuff by 3rd.

rasmuswagner · Post by **rasmuswagner** » Wed Sep 21, 2016 7:24 pm

Motherfucking Bargle.

Kaelik · Post by **Kaelik** » Wed Sep 21, 2016 7:29 pm

If I had to pick a single D&D Wizard as "the most famous" I would say it is Evard. About the only two-four core spells that I actually commonly refer to including their Wizard who made them names are in order of how often I associate the name with the spell:

1) Evard's Black Tentacles
2) Mordenkeinen's Magnificent Mansion
3) Tensor's Transformation
4) Mordenkeinen's Disjunction

There are pretty big gaps between 2 and 3, and 3 and 4. So across everything, it ultimately comes down to the fact that EBT is great 4th level attack spell, and everything else is a spell that is super high level and either makes the game or your character shittier by it's inclusion.

Prak · Post by **Prak** » Wed Sep 21, 2016 7:40 pm

I think Bigby is pretty famous, due to the volume and notoriety of his spells.

Josh_Kablack · Post by **Josh_Kablack** » Wed Sep 21, 2016 9:01 pm

Gotta shout out to Ermikol the Chaotic.

but I like Darcy's list:
1 Gandalf
2. of Oz
3 Merlin
4 Harry Potter

Neurosis · Post by **Neurosis** » Wed Sep 21, 2016 9:08 pm

I feel like some of those play excessively loosely with the "In D&D" part of the question, Josh.

If Merlin legit had D&D stats since 1st Edition...that's an exception. But Gandalf is emphatically not even a D&D Wizard. He just looks like one.

Josh_Kablack · Post by **Josh_Kablack** » Wed Sep 21, 2016 9:34 pm

Neurosis wrote:I feel like some of those play excessively loosely with the "In D&D" part of the question, Josh..

That's kind of the point....despite living with me for almost two decades, Darcy has never actually played D&D, so the real answer is that there are no "D&D" wizards famous enough to be known outside of D&D players.

Chamomile · Post by **Chamomile** » Wed Sep 21, 2016 9:48 pm

I don't see why the question "who is the most famous D&D wizard" becomes any less valid just because all of them are easily beaten out by non-D&D wizards.

Whipstitch · Post by **Whipstitch** » Wed Sep 21, 2016 10:16 pm

I would think Elminster by a mile and that's coming from someone who has a niece named Raistlyn. It frankly comes down to licensing--I don't really give a fuck about Elminster and likely neither do you but he's still in Baldur's Gate and name dropped in Salvatore novels either way.

souran · Post by **souran** » Wed Sep 21, 2016 11:43 pm

Well I think that the most famous wizard is probably Eleminster. He is not the oldest, or the one with the most spells to his name.

In fact, the wizards whose names are associated with spells are all from Greyhawk's circle of 8 and I had been playing D&D for a decade before I found out who they were or what their deal was.

I know that there are actually more Dragonlance books than FR books so its possible that Raistlin was at some point a better known character than Elimenster, but I think that FR books now outsell Dragonlance pretty regularly.

It also helps that video games including Eleminster have been produced more recently than ones with Raistlin.

Honestly though, the fact that the most interesting settings lack a Gandalf expi is more interesting than which Gandalf expi is most well known. Ebberon, Ravenloft, Dark Sun are the more interesting settings in part because you could become the wizard who everybody knows instead of already having a DM penis NPC handing out quests.

Whipstitch · Post by **Whipstitch** » Thu Sep 22, 2016 2:02 am

I wouldn't say that I have a favorite setting but I definitely I think you're confusing novelty with general interest there. Let's be clear: the best thing any of those settings have going for them is the fact that Brom really seems to enjoy drawing sand.

Mechalich · Post by **Mechalich** » Thu Sep 22, 2016 2:46 am

Whipstitch wrote:I would think Elminster by a mile and that's coming from someone who has a niece named Raistlyn. It frankly comes down to licensing--I don't really give a fuck about Elminster and likely neither do you but he's still in Baldur's Gate and name dropped in Salvatore novels either way.

Yeah, I think this is probably the correct path. Far more people have ever read Dragonlance novels than have ever actually played Dragonlance, and most likely more people have played at least some part of Baldur's Gate than have ever played D&D in any tabletop form.

Elminster manages to be known both to novel readers - he's at least a cameo in a shockingly large percentage of FR novels - and video game players.

Now, if Hasbro even manages to get WotC to authorize a MtG plane as a D&D setting, then the answer probably changes to Jace.

JonSetanta · Post by **JonSetanta** » Thu Sep 22, 2016 2:55 am

Raistlin thanks to the Dragonlance novels. He's even voiced by Keifer Sutherland in the animated movie. *coughcoughcoughcough*

Voss · Post by **Voss** » Thu Sep 22, 2016 2:35 pm

Elminster, obviously.
The greyhawk mages through name recognition from the spells in the PH (though likely most people have no idea what those names are).
Khelben and Halaster from FR.

Maybe Raistlin and Fizban for those over 30 and who bother to remember something as shitty as DL.

Ferret · Post by **Ferret** » Thu Sep 22, 2016 7:37 pm

Yeah, of D&D-native wizards, Elminster is by far the easy choice as most well known.

Then probably a toss-up between Mordenkainen, Bigby, Tenser, and Evard, just from the spells they're famous for.

Neurosis · Post by **Neurosis** » Thu Sep 22, 2016 7:38 pm

Josh_Kablack wrote:
Neurosis wrote:I feel like some of those play excessively loosely with the "In D&D" part of the question, Josh..
That's kind of the point....despite living with me for almost two decades, Darcy has never actually played D&D, so the real answer is that there are no "D&D" wizards famous enough to be known outside of D&D players.

FWIW the Dragonlance novels have substantial reach outside of D&D players.

The set of "people who know who Raistlin is" is not limited to the set of "people who play D&D".

Neurosis · Post by **Neurosis** » Thu Sep 22, 2016 7:40 pm

Whipstitch wrote:I would think Elminster by a mile and that's coming from someone who has a niece named Raistlyn. It frankly comes down to licensing--I don't really give a fuck about Elminster and likely neither do you but he's still in Baldur's Gate and name dropped in Salvatore novels either way.

I don't know that Salvatore novels necessarily have more inherent cultural cache than Weis novels.

That said: I mainly just wanted to post to say how cool it is that I know someone who has a niece--not a nephew, but a niece!--named Raistlyn. Fucking awesome. How did that come about?

Neurosis · Post by **Neurosis** » Thu Sep 22, 2016 7:45 pm

(natural 1)

sendaz · Post by **sendaz** » Thu Sep 22, 2016 8:19 pm

Neurosis wrote: I don't know that Salvatore novels necessarily have more inherent cultural cache than Weis novels.

http://thewertzone.blogspot.co.uk/2013/ ... sales.html

That list has Salvatore coming in at 30+ million copies sold while Weis came in at around 20 million copies.

However, this does not cover resale/passing on of a book and D&D novels can migrate through a number of hands in its lifetime via around the gaming table or being picked up at second hand books shops so how many actual readers for each could be a bit different.

Voss · Post by **Voss** » Fri Sep 23, 2016 12:15 am

Neurosis wrote:(natural 1)

Is this you realizing that Salvatore is not part of this discussion at all, having created no memorable wizards?

Whipstitch · Post by **Whipstitch** » Fri Sep 23, 2016 12:17 am

That and both settings have a shit ton of other authors traipsing around. I'm pretty sure as a shared universe Dragonlance produced more titles but I have no idea how that translates out to total sales or which setting has had a longer tail. FR's single biggest advantage is simply that TSR got behind it in a big way since apparently Greenwood was very happy to pimp out his baby. Greyhawk and Mordenkainen obviously deserve a shout out but that setting has been looted for parts so thoroughly that it sometimes comes across as indistinct for those of us who weren't raised on the old ways.

That said: I mainly just wanted to post to say how cool it is that I know someone who has a niece--not a nephew, but a niece!--named Raistlyn. Fucking awesome. How did that come about?

No big story, really. My step brother got married despite being an total nerd.

Voss · Post by **Voss** » Fri Sep 23, 2016 12:21 am

Whipstitch wrote:That and both settings have a shit ton of other authors traipsing around. I'm pretty sure as a shared universe Dragonlance produced more titles but I have no idea how that translates out to total sales or which setting has had a longer tail. FR's single biggest advantage is simply that TSR got behind it in a big way since apparently Greenwood was very happy to pimp out his baby. Greyhawk and Mordenkainen obviously deserve a shout out but that setting has been looted for parts so thoroughly that it almost comes across as indistinct for those of us who weren't raised on the old ways.

Honestly... Mordenkainen & etc are pretty indistinct even if you were. Gygax's (and others) attempt at Greyhawk novels came really late* and didn't have anything like the reach of FR or DL novels, and in game, there wasn't the push to throw Big Dicked Wizards at the PCs whenever something vaguely important happened. Modules were more important than Named NPCs.

*and ended in the absolute destruction of the setting, even though TSR didn't publish those.