Crappy magic items

[nockermensch]

Claymore Mine
When this metal disk is thrown on the ground, it creates an extradimensional pit 10' across and 30' deep. At the bottom of the pit are dozens of greatswords of various size. Treat these like spikes if fallen on. (I'm not sorry)

I love it.

The greatswords form a pattern that reads FRONT TOWARD ENEMY.

[Stahlseele]

What happens to the disk itself?
How does it not fall into the pit?

Can the pit be accessed by other ways?
What happens to people/things that fall in and are impaled?
Is it reuseable?
Does the pit get restocked with the swords if they are removed?
How is this crap?

[souran]

What happens to the disk itself?
How does it not fall into the pit?

Can the pit be accessed by other ways?
What happens to people/things that fall in and are impaled?
Is it reuseable?
Does the pit get restocked with the swords if they are removed?
How is this crap?

Its crap because all of those questions are left up to your DM.

[Stahlseele]

That's crappy writing, not a crappy item.

[erik]

For what it's worth I was aiming for items that initially seem kind of useless as sophisticated adventuring gear but that adventurers could enjoy having and could potentially find some use for. Honestly my soundtrack item probably would be kept for entertainment value even if it gave no bonuses, so the bonuses were probably too much.

Crappy writing is fine since for any idea I want to use since I can do the crunch on my own - the general ideas are the gems. The claymore mine is more combat useful than I was looking for. I still enjoyed it though and expect a thread to deviate some from its principal purpose/topic by the second post, if not sooner. I decided I would rather profit from a thread like this than another terrible game design thread by someone having no business doing any sort of game design.

[Stahlseele]

i think in some gurps book there was a kind of edge that let the character hear the soundtrack or something silly like that, but i am not sure right now.

yeah, i can see the not wanting another game design thread arund here. accepted.

So ideas i just had:
The Cursed Torches
Made by a young, unexperienced enchanter who had enough of paying for torches. Sadly, made from the wood of a Pearwood Tree that a drunk god had pissed on. These torches are eternal. Unchanging. They will not break. They will not get used up. Ever.
Come in different variants:

Sentient:

Guilty Torch A sentient and talking torch. It works just like a normal torch. Aside from the fact that as soon you light it on fire, it starts screaming in pain because you lit it on fire. You monster.

Bipolar or Light of Love:
Either will constantly talk about how cold, dark dreary and generally awfull life is(Think marvin, the paranoid android from Hitchhikers guide to the galaxy here, the whole emo tour), untill lit on fire. Then it will change completely and start moaning in orgasmic bliss, declaring it's eternal love for whoever lit it on fire. How it feels so hot, how it loves the feeling of your skin. How it wants you to hold its shaft tighter in your fingers. How it loves the way your eyes reflect its light. How it loves to watch you sleep. How it hopes to warm your heart.

Light of Love
basically the same, but without the talking when not lit up.

Non Sentient:
These feel, for a lack of better term, grumpy when held.

Cursed Torch A normal torch. Only every time you light it on fire, you either burn yourself for 1HP damage or some random item of gear on your person catches on fire. Yes, even if you are soaked to the bone because you just came up from taking a dive. Normal fire though, so can be extinguished with an action of sorts.

Eternal Light
Once lit, it will stay lit, no matter what happens. Only when purposefully extinguished will it actually stop burning. You may drop it by accident into water, it will happily float there and keep burning. You may use it as a weapon, thrust it into bodies, it will keep burning. But if you really, really want to extinguish it on purpose? You take 1HP fire damage and/or set one piece of gear on your person on fire. Normal fire though.

[Occluded Sun]

To steal from a 4chan thread on this topic: Bagpipes of Invisibility

[Judging__Eagle]

Rejection Stamp
This wooden stamp will Disintegrate any paper or parchment that it touches as the spell (Fortitude save DC 19, Caster level 11).

I can't believe that I missed this gem. The only time that I could see myself using it a lot would be playing as a Quartermaster in a round of Space Station 13.

[hyzmarca]

Decanter of Endless Urine: Looks and operates exactly like a Decanter of Endless Water, but is connected to the Demiplane of Urine instead of the Elemental Plane of Water.

[Judging__Eagle]

Decanter of Endless Urine: Looks and operates exactly like a Decanter of Endless Water, but is connected to the Demiplane of Urine instead of the Elemental Plane of Water.

That's... really powerful; since it has multi-purpose applications:

-Pressure stream (As Decanter of Water)
-Can neutralize certain toxins (afaik jellyfish stings)
-Source of ammonia (Via evaporation/distilling; maybe spell components? Absolutely a resource for tindertwigs)
-Source of water (Via evaporation/distilling)

Albeit, also being incredibly disgusting. It's only real use is as a source of ammonia; and even then it requires processing of raw materials.

[JonSetanta]

JE, which would you rather drink in the middle of a dungeon?

[JonSetanta]

To steal from a 4chan thread on this topic: Bagpipes of Invisibility

You can't steal from 4chan. It's just more sharing.

As for bagpipes, I can only ever imagine a Bard with this face;



Just think of the pipe as invisible. Done.

[Judging__Eagle]

JE, which would you rather drink in the middle of a dungeon?

Depends on the character's physical robustness. If I don't see a meaningful mechanical reason not to, I'd force my character to do so. It's gross and supernatural, but if the characters can do it; so be it.

Really, taking the piss... as it were; would be way up at the shallow end of the worst things I could have a character do in an narrative.

I've done viler things in larps for greed, spite, or out of personal curiosity as to the final results; and seen and heard of other players doing things even viler still.

At a tabletop I could see this disgusting display being used as a source of black comedy. The character eventually making jokes about how the decanter is a higher quality beverage than some beers they've had in some of the worse taverns they gotten drunk in.

Really, the original question is moot. Adventurers don't decide between a decanter of endless piss or endless water in the middle of the dungeon. They decide before they even entered on how they'll pay for survival taxes like thirst or hunger. Ultimately, both decanters can simply be ignored.

Create Water is a 0 level spell you can get a 100-charge Wand made of for 750 gp, and obviate the non-combat applications of a Decanter of Endless Water.

Really though; how often have you seem a DM track the parties rations? Compared to how often cagey players will always carry at least a few days supply? The former is minuscule (even in "tracked-heavyily" campaigns like Living Greyhawk); and the latter tends towards the majority of players I've met (b/c extra food is at the very least good for monster bribes).

In the end, I'm actually surprised how I used to think that the DoEW was a cool item, but now the DoEU seems to be a much funnier one; and possibly a more versatile tool.

[Kaelik]

I recall getting in an argument about CR and SGT's and parties, in which some asshole (who very well might be a JaronK alt account) argued that the only way he could imagine a level 4 party beating a Basilisk in it's barrow was for the party to get a Decanter of Endless water and drown it.

[Judging__Eagle]

I recall getting in an argument about CR and SGT's and parties, in which some asshole (who very well might be a JaronK alt account) argued that the only way he could imagine a level 4 party beating a Basilisk in it's barrow was for the party to get a Decanter of Endless water and drown it.

Good fucking christ. I believe you, but that's an insane thing to propose as being something that would happen in any actual game or that its somehow balanced. It's a 9k gp item in d20 and... the same in PFSRD; and I'm pretty sure it would break WBL for the party to have the magic value equivalent of nine suits of +1 armour in one item at level 4. Although; I have no idea if WBL even is a concept in PF.

By that same PF logic, if the PCs can start off with Decanters of Endless Water at level 4; we might as well give every Monk an Amulet of Dire Lion Polymorph; and all fighters the Sword of Kas. At level one.

It would be as reasonable as everything else in PF.

[maglag]

I recall getting in an argument about CR and SGT's and parties, in which some asshole (who very well might be a JaronK alt account) argued that the only way he could imagine a level 4 party beating a Basilisk in it's barrow was for the party to get a Decanter of Endless water and drown it.

Good fucking christ. I believe you, but that's an insane thing to propose as being something that would happen in any actual game or that its somehow balanced. It's a 9k gp item in d20 and... the same in PFSRD; and I'm pretty sure it would break WBL for the party to have the magic value equivalent of nine suits of +1 armour in one item at level 4. Although; I have no idea if WBL even is a concept in PF.

There is WBL in PF.

By that same PF logic, if the PCs can start off with Decanters of Endless Water at level 4; we might as well give every Monk an Amulet of Dire Lion Polymorph; and all fighters the Sword of Kas. At level one.

It would be as reasonable as everything else in PF.

In contrast with the magnificient balance of 3.5's "make a DC 30 knowledge check at level 1 and start an infinite wish loop"?

Or if playing with tome rules there's as many decanters of endless water in any corner as there's grains of sand on a beach, having null market value according to Frank himself, so the party can have as many as they can carry from level 1.

[Omegonthesane]

I recall getting in an argument about CR and SGT's and parties, in which some asshole (who very well might be a JaronK alt account) argued that the only way he could imagine a level 4 party beating a Basilisk in it's barrow was for the party to get a Decanter of Endless water and drown it.

Good fucking christ. I believe you, but that's an insane thing to propose as being something that would happen in any actual game or that its somehow balanced. It's a 9k gp item in d20 and... the same in PFSRD; and I'm pretty sure it would break WBL for the party to have the magic value equivalent of nine suits of +1 armour in one item at level 4. Although; I have no idea if WBL even is a concept in PF.

There is WBL in PF.

By that same PF logic, if the PCs can start off with Decanters of Endless Water at level 4; we might as well give every Monk an Amulet of Dire Lion Polymorph; and all fighters the Sword of Kas. At level one.

It would be as reasonable as everything else in PF.

In contrast with the magnificient balance of 3.5's "make a DC 30 knowledge check at level 1 and start an infinite wish loop"?

Or if playing with tome rules there's as many decanters of endless water in any corner as there's grains of sand on a beach, having null market value according to Frank himself, so the party can have as many as they can carry from level 1.

Incorrect, they only have null market value to people who have access to infinite wishes. Level 1 peons are still playing in the gold economy. But then, I'm sure you're still wilfully misunderstanding this from last time it came up.

[hyzmarca]

I recall getting in an argument about CR and SGT's and parties, in which some asshole (who very well might be a JaronK alt account) argued that the only way he could imagine a level 4 party beating a Basilisk in it's barrow was for the party to get a Decanter of Endless water and drown it.

Good fucking christ. I believe you, but that's an insane thing to propose as being something that would happen in any actual game or that its somehow balanced. It's a 9k gp item in d20 and... the same in PFSRD; and I'm pretty sure it would break WBL for the party to have the magic value equivalent of nine suits of +1 armour in one item at level 4. Although; I have no idea if WBL even is a concept in PF.

By that same PF logic, if the PCs can start off with Decanters of Endless Water at level 4; we might as well give every Monk an Amulet of Dire Lion Polymorph; and all fighters the Sword of Kas. At level one.

It would be as reasonable as everything else in PF.

Wealth by level is stupid and shouldn't exist.

It's ultimately worse than sucking the DM's penis for overpowered magical items, because you still have to suck the DM's penis, but the stuff you get for doing so also sucks. If a level 1 fighter somehow finds the Sword of Kas, then so be it. It's not like that ain't common in the fiction. "Hey, level 1 stableboy Arthur, why don't you try pulling Excalibur out of this rock." "This was your father's lightsaber, he'd want you to have it."

[Judging__Eagle]

There is WBL in PF.

In which case, the mere mention of the PCs being "balanced" at level 4 with an item that is 50% more than the total magical gear value of a level 4 character (i.e. 6k gp) is the sort of asinine response anyone could use to dismiss everything about PF's design.

As for "infinite" Decanters of Endless Water. You obviously haven't actually read or used [Tome] content.

Even in Book of Gears unfinished state, there were enough rules in Tome of Fiends & Dungeonomicon to clarify that:

-Magic items over 15k gp are "and priceless in a gold economy; and manufactured goods in a Wish economy"

-Magic items 15k gp and under are "what PCs could conceivably loot off of every minion they meet.... and the MC will never actually worry about breaking the PCs position on the power curve if they loot 20 +1 swords or several full sets of +2 to attributes items"

In contrast with the magnificient balance of 3.5's "make a DC 30 knowledge check at level 1 and start an infinite wish loop"?

Honestly, I'm not sure which specific edge-case PC build you're thinking about when you mention this.

In any case, I've never claimed 3.5 is even a good game system. It's combat game uses the worst parts of 1970's wargame design (like every tiny men needing their own stat line); while erasing/throwing out the better parts of 1800's wargame design (such as the actually grueling nature of "evenly matched" battles). While it's non-combat game is a clusterfuck of Magical Tea Party pretending to be functional rules.

Or if playing with tome rules there's as many decanters of endless water in any corner as there's grains of sand on a beach, having null market value according to Frank himself, so the party can have as many as they can carry from level 1.

In [Tome] rules, while there is the potential for an indefinite amount of "wooden nickel" magic items. However that indefinite amount is much, much, lower than anything approaching "infinity."

The real limits are things like: how fast can you chain-summon Efreet & negotiate a seemingly equitable trade for Wishes such that they won't want to screw you, and you got at least more than 1 Wish out of the deal (my own players hit upon the idea of offering to as the Efreet their 3rd wish to be something the Efreet wanted; usually a gem worth 25k gp, which is honestly... the best deal an Efreet is going to get from any players I've ever heard about; Although, I'll admit that the 2nd wish is often a multi-spell scroll to continue chain-calling Efreeti).

As for level 11+ characters; giving them:

-Any amount of sub 15,001 gp items... won't break most lvl 11+ adventures

-[Tome] also uses a hard item limit to reduce the "need to fill all Paper Doll equipment slots"

Wealth by level is stupid and shouldn't exist.

I'd argue otherwise. The sheer amount of times that players are under-equipped in terms of magical gear in D&D campaigns is probably much larger than they are over equipped. Much more so when the campaign's referee claims that it's a "Low Magic" setting (where giant skeletons, will-o-wisps are murderous, mini-beholders (gauths) randomly roam the countryside, krakens can teleport to the nearest ship, and Dread Wraiths can unerringly see through ground they are hiding inside; let's just say that many referees don't know the rules they're using very well, if at all).


Something like WBL at the very least provides a guideline as to how under, or over, equipped the PCs actually are.

While being over equipped is certainly a problem (which is also hard to fix w/out lots of patient OOG discussion); being under equipped means you can't even enter level appropriate adventures and hope to survive & succeed.

Personally, I prefer to think of WBL as Minimum Wealth By Level. The fact that [Tome] has rigid economy tiers means that I can have a "large dragon's hoard" (of 10'x10'x3') of aprox. 10M gp actually show up as loot; and the bulk of the players will ignore it or even be disgusted by it. While the magic items that have real value will hold their attention; even if they're grapple-barbarian, and the item is a magic staff they'd never use.

Which is a fucking huge departure from how D&D usually operate; and much, much closer to the source material of literary science fantasy. Where finding a powerful magic item impresses even the least interested members of the group in those sorts of items.

As for a level 1 fighter having the sword of kas at level 1; that narrative doesn't even match the sources (Arthur, Star Wars) you're using as examples of that narrative's source material. Unless of course the Fighter is also some sort of scion of Kas. Only then would it even closely match the sources you're citing as examples to follow.

[hyzmarca]

Personally, I prefer to think of WBL as Minimum Wealth By Level. The fact that [Tome] has rigid economy tiers means that I can have a "large dragon's hoard" (of 10'x10'x3') of aprox. 10M gp actually show up as loot; and the bulk of the players will ignore it or even be disgusted by it. While the magic items that have real value will hold their attention; even if they're grapple-barbarian, and the item is a magic staff they'd never use.

Equipment tiers is a good thing. Wealth by level doesn't guarentee that you'll get equipment of the appropriate tier, though. 99 +1 swords might blow WBL out of the water, without actually being particularly useful.

As for a level 1 fighter having the sword of kas at level 1; that narrative doesn't even match the sources (Arthur, Star Wars) you're using as examples of that narrative's source material. Unless of course the Fighter is also some sort of scion of Kas. Only then would it even closely match the sources you're citing as examples to follow.

Who says he isn't?

[Stahlseele]

Guys, can we not do the whole game design discussion again, as requestes by erik and instead have some more "crappy" magic items?

S-Print Pajama
Looks, feels and smells like an old, well worn in set of Pajamas.
Made from blue linen or wool cloth. Has a pattern consisting of yellow triangles with a stylized red S-shaped rune in them. Grants +2 to all attributes of the wearer. Works only when asleep. Also, comfy.

[sendaz]

The Home Stone.

The bearer of the stone can observe the stone to determine the weather/local conditions at the stone's place of origin, which is an isolated farm valley off to the distant West.

If its warm & dry, it's sunny.
It its damp, it's raining.
If it is cold & white, it's snowing.
If it is burning hot, there's a forest fire.
If it is bloody, there's a land war on.
If it's gone, probably a Tornado/Hurricane.

[Prak]

If it's gone, probably a Tornado/Hurricane.

Alternatively, Orcs.

Blankey
This soft, children's blanket is usually some pastel color and printed with childish imagery, such as ducks, bunnies, teddy bears, or the like. When held or draped over the shoulders, it confers a +3 morale bonus on all saves against fear effects, but it's rather tough to look, er, tough, like that, so it also confers a -3 competence penalty to Intimidate checks. The blankey is fueled by childish magical thinking, and so has several other abilities- If a move action is spent cuddling it, a character affected by a Fear effect may make a new save at the original DC. The character may do this while fleeing, as an exception to the text of Frightened and Panicked. If they panic, they will not drop the blankey, and receive a new save against the original DC if they are cowering regardless of their ability to take actions. If the Blankey is placed over one's head, they are rendered invisible, as the spell, to all aberrations and undead with Int less than 20. If the Blankey is placed over the head of such a monster, the monster is struck by existential uncertainty and must make a Will save (DC 25) or be paralyzed until the Blankey is removed.

Firepoker
This is an ordinary fire poker, save that it appears to have been used to beat someone over the head, indicated by the large bend in the shaft. It is an improvised weapon, and suffers a -4 attack penalty, dealing 1d8 piercing or bludgeoning damage (it can be used one or two handed). Alternatively, you can lessen the penalty to -2, but deal 1d6 damage by holding it about halfway up the haft. The firepoker is imbued by childlike trust and fear such that it only hurts monsters. It passes through those of non-evil alignment as if incorporeal.

[Kaelik]

Binky
This soft, children's blanket is usually some pastel color and printed with childish imagery, such as ducks, bunnies, teddy bears, or the like. When held or draped over the shoulders, it confers a +2 bonus on all saves against fear effects. However, it also confers a -3 penalty to Intimidate checks. If a full round action is spent cuddling the Binky, a character affected by a Fear effect may make a new save at the original DC. If they are cowering, they automatically get a new save each round.

This is terrible. Besides being just an arbitrary +2 to saves against fear that everyone will take, it turns right around and does that stupid thing where you have to spend an action to remove a status effect that takes away actions.

No one is going to use that during combat to escape shaken, and no one can use it when Frightened or Panicked. So aside from arbitrarily making cowering better than panicked or frightened, it doesn't even do anything.

[Prak]

I always forget about bonus types. Thank you.