Spellbooks and Schoolgirls d20

[Prak]

I randomly started thinking about a magic school campaign again, and reread the Redhurst OSSR to jog my brain about some of the "DON'T DO THIS" things and "it would be so much better if..." things.

I'm approaching the idea as just a way to present a D&D game centered on being Magic Uni students to my potential players. This isn't for publication, this isn't for sale, it just has to pass the muster of a group that is composed of around two decent but cautious (ie, not super opportunistic asshole) optimizers and two to three newbies/novices with a head for some optimization.

I'm looking at D20 with variations because that's the thing I have the best chance of getting players for. Even if I throw down a 100-page booklet of houserules, as long as there is recognizable D&DNA there, I can people on board.

The first thing I'm looking at is hacking out hit die, because that makes things very weird for school games. Instead, I want to roll with something like the Mutants and Masterminds condition track (under "Conflict"), which, itself, was probably based on a variant rule from Unearthed Arcana. The idea being that you don't have hp, you just have a condition track. When you take damage, you roll a save, if you pass, there's no effect, if you fail by less than ten, you just take a cumulative -1 on further damage resistance checks, if you fail by more than 10, you're dazed until your next round and get that same penalty. The UA version actually breaks that into "cumulative -1/disabled" and M&M has four degrees of failure, but that's the gist at least. This way you can have students that don't have more hit points than the town guard... because no one has hit points. I'd use a Poor/Average/Good base save split based on the HD the class would normally have (d4-6/d8/d10-12), probably using the same scale as BAB, so a level one fighter and a level 2 wizard have the same resilience. I'm also considering giving d12 classes a static bonus on their resilience, and the d4 class a sort of ablative magical defense, meaning that once they are [condition] they take a static -2 penalty on resilience checks, to represent the respective higher and lower resilience compared to other classes.

I'm also at least considering using the Defense variant from UA, since a lot of characters wouldn't be wearing much armor and it'd help a little bit. I might use Defense as the resilience roll stat for above, just to collapse variants together.

As to spellcasting, first of all, I want to use the "spellbooks are scrolls" idea. I don't know if I want them to be single use, or what. Probably not, though, since I'm also looking at rolling to cast successfully.

Casting Spells
The idea is to reinforce the "you're learning to cast spells" thing, so when you first learn a spell, you have to roll an appropriate skill to cast it successfully (Kn.Arcana, Kn.Divine, Kn.Nature, Performance, divvied up logically). The base DC would be something like 15+spell level, and then I'd go ahead and let people try to cast above their level at +5 per spell level above their max. I think that'd really only be an option if you have the spell in written form, and spells below your max spell level would have -5 DC per level, too. Wands are a genre convention in Harry Potter, Little Witch Academia, and a lot of other magic school stuff (because Harry Potter), so to incentivize wand-use, I figure having a wand would give you a +3 bonus to your spell rolls, and might allow you to prep more mastered spells, or something.
Edit: of note- I considered the profusion of rolling this creates. When you have a spell with a To Hit roll, you just make one roll against the higher of the opponent's defense or the spell DC. If using Spell DC successfully casting means you automatically hit. If using the opponent's defense, successfully hitting means you automatically cast the spell. It's a kludge, but it means fewer rolls.

Learning Spells
I know people here hate on "use it to learn it" stuff, but for the given players I have in mind, I think it would work fine. I'm thinking "10-Casting Mod times spell level" successful checks required and a day of class counts as two checks on that track, subject to "it has to be the right class for the spell." I don't know if I'd dictate what spell or not, but I'd probably say "ok, if you spend a day in the Evocation lecture, you get to put two checks into Evocation spells," or something. And for field work, you have to use the spell in an appropriate context, meaning you can't just cast Scorching Ray at a wall twenty times to learn it, you have to go fight shit and use Scorching Ray. Once you've mastered a spell, you don't have to roll to cast it anymore, so long as you're actually high enough level to cast the spell per normal D&D rules. If you're first level and have been casting Scorching Ray from a book and gotten 20 successes, you still have to roll to cast it because you're first-fucking-level.

Spell Resources
Vance can go suck a barrel of cocks. I don't know what the vancian system is good for, but wizard college games aint it. Characters have spell points, they get fatigued when they run through 1/3 of their points (or, rather, I'll give a set threshold based on base spell points so people don't have to do math on the fly, because I know most of my potential players wouldn't write the damned thing down), and exhausted when they've run through 2/3, and they can rest an hour to recover 1/3, another hour for 2/3, and another six hours to go back to full. Classes are structured with this in mind, so that each session of class/lecture/whatthefuckever starts with half an hour of practical work casting spells, then there's two hours of lecture so people can catch their breath and recover most of their SP, and then ends with another half hour of practical work.

---

That's as far as I've gotten in my figuring. Thoughts? Beyond "Damnit, Prak, you're an idiot, stop trying to use d20 for everything," I mean.

[Prak]

Now with specifics- Compilation of actual variant rules text

[Chamomile]

Casting Spells
The idea is to reinforce the "you're learning to cast spells" thing, so when you first learn a spell, you have to roll an appropriate skill to cast it successfully (Kn.Arcana, Kn.Divine, Kn.Nature, Performance, divvied up logically). The base DC would be something like 15+spell level, and then I'd go ahead and let people try to cast above their level at +5 per spell level above their max. I think that'd really only be an option if you have the spell in written form, and spells below your max spell level would have -5 DC per level, too. Wands are a genre convention in Harry Potter, Little Witch Academia, and a lot of other magic school stuff (because Harry Potter), so to incentivize wand-use, I figure having a wand would give you a +3 bonus to your spell rolls, and might allow you to prep more mastered spells, or something.
Edit: of note- I considered the profusion of rolling this creates. When you have a spell with a To Hit roll, you just make one roll against the higher of the opponent's defense or the spell DC. If using Spell DC successfully casting means you automatically hit. If using the opponent's defense, successfully hitting means you automatically cast the spell. It's a kludge, but it means fewer rolls.

Rolling a DC to activate spells is a good approach, and you can tie spell levels to school year, although depending on how many years the school covers you may have to futz around with how many spell levels are learned in one year (if it's a four year school, for example, you'll need two spell levels per year and have ninth level spells be graduate level).

Two things that stick out to me, though. #1: You've got redundant mechanics for representing high spell DCs. Your DC is 15+spell level but then it's also a cumulative +5 DC for spells above your current maximum level. Why not just make the DCs 15+(5*spell level) and then hand out bonuses that make casting level-appropriate spells functional most of the time? Related, speaking of cast failure rates, even as students you probably don't want your protagonists failing to cast a spell more than 25% of the time, but your base DC for a cantrip is 15, which means with a +5 bonus a level 1 character only has a 50% chance of getting it right and will struggle to do any magic at all. That makes some amount of sense, but is very frustrating.

Second, I would recommend revising the skill list because #1 every incarnation of the 3e skill list is terrible but especially because #2 you want to have your "doing magic" skill either be one skill or be split up by subject (the latter is probably preferable, because it means you can have Neville be good at Herbology and Harry be good at DADA rather than Hermoine being good at magic and Ron being good at anything else except magic - those both work in a book series, but the latter makes for a bad RPG), in which case Arcana, Nature, Divine, and Performance are probably not the four subjects you want.

Learning Spells
I know people here hate on "use it to learn it" stuff, but for the given players I have in mind, I think it would work fine. I'm thinking "10-Casting Mod times spell level" successful checks required and a day of class counts as two checks on that track, subject to "it has to be the right class for the spell." I don't know if I'd dictate what spell or not, but I'd probably say "ok, if you spend a day in the Evocation lecture, you get to put two checks into Evocation spells," or something. And for field work, you have to use the spell in an appropriate context, meaning you can't just cast Scorching Ray at a wall twenty times to learn it, you have to go fight shit and use Scorching Ray. Once you've mastered a spell, you don't have to roll to cast it anymore, so long as you're actually high enough level to cast the spell per normal D&D rules. If you're first level and have been casting Scorching Ray from a book and gotten 20 successes, you still have to roll to cast it because you're first-fucking-level.

I'm totally going to hate on "use it to learn it" stuff right now. I don't think using scorching ray in a fight should contribute to learning, firstly because the genre is that you learn stuff in class and that becomes your arsenal of Chekhov's Guns to fire at problems in the field, and secondly because combat spells will be used overwhelmingly more than utility spells and quickly get maxed out for no other reason except that the problem of "hostile ogre" requires multiple castings of Scorching Ray to overcome whereas the problem of "I need this corridor to not be a thing anymore" is very probably only going to need one Wall of Stone. I think you should just go with classes contributing towards learning. You may also have people be rolling appropriate skills to master a spell while in class, although if you do that you should also offer and recommend taking 10, so that the option of consistent progress is on the table.

The math on learning spells is pretty out of whack. Assuming a +2 casting mod, a level 1 spell takes 8 checks but a level 9 spell takes 72. Assuming a MWF class grants 6 checks per week, you can master a first level spell in just over one week but a 9th level spell takes 12 weeks (use to learn isn't likely to make a huge difference to this math even if you do insist on using it), which is the better part of a semester. Being 17th level does not alleviate this problem the way it should (except in that you are, assuming D&D economics apply, in the wish economy and likely have a +10 stat modifier by now, in which case you have the reverse problem where all spells are learned instantly).

[Prak]

On Spell DCs-You make a good point. I'm mulling over what I want to do about it. The idea is to make casting above your level possible (from a book), but difficult. Maybe I just need to make casting above your max level a static +5, which combines with "casting a spell not studied" for a total DC mod of 10. It does mean that it's easier for a 15th level wizard to cast Meteor Swarm from the copy of the Celestial Grimoire they just found than it is for a first level wizard character to work ahead and practice Scorching Ray, but that at least makes sense.

The link in post #2 is to a dropbox file where I have more spelled out rules. I've added a couple bonuses for casting a spell to enforce genre conventions- +3 for casting with a wand (not the standard D&D item type, but in the Harry Potter sense) and -3 to DC for casting from a book. So a first level student holding their wand in one hand and their book in the other trying to cast a level appropriate spell has a DC of 13 and a check of at least +3, and probably at least +4.

As for getting ticks towards spell mastery- I'm looking at a nat 20 on your spell roll giving a number of ticks equal to you level, which helps somewhat.

For the number of ticks required, I'm thinking classes are all structured such:

• Half hour of practice on the last spell you worked on
• Two hours of lecture (allowing people to recover 2/3 spell points)
• Half hour of practice

Then you break for lunch for an hour. Then you probably have a second class before you call it a day for lectures. I'm looking at more of a Uni model, since I much prefer Magic Uni to Magic Boarding School for a lot of reasons (one of which being shipping is less squicky to write when the characters are above the age of consent)

So by attending lecture, you get two success ticks over the course of 3 hours. This incentivises going to lecture because it basically assumes you take twenty a couple of times, but it doesn't eclipse traipsing out into the Forbidden Forest to hunt snipes because you can theoretically learn faster by risking your life.

If I keep "Use it to learn it," what do you think of casting the spell successfully giving a tick per encounter, rather than each discrete time you cast it? Crits still give (level) ticks, but that way you are generally assumed to learn as much by taking on an ogre as you learn from sealing a corridor.

Note- I haven't yet decided on school year length, level span of school (I don't think I want it to be a full twenty levels, but it needs to be at least 1 level per year), or a lot of other setting stuff, because I'm trying to shape the rules into something that will work for this sort of game.

[Prak]

Ok, so I ran some theory on Spell DCs in the shower.

Lets say I go with 15+Spell Level, +5 if the spell is above your highest spell

• Morty the first level wizard is trying to cast Identify. It's first level, so it's DC 16, and it's his highest spell level, so no modifier there. If he's even just competently built, but not necessarily optimized, we can assume he has a 16 Int, 4 ranks in Kn Arcana, and he's using his wand for a total mod of +10. He's not dumb, so he's going from a book, which lowers the DC by 3, making the real DC 13. He has to roll a 3 or better to succeed, meaning he has a 10% chance of failing to cast.
  • If Morty is actually optimized, he has an 18 in his stat and he has a race that gives +2 to Int (so he's a grey elf). This makes his bonus 12, meaning he can't fail (because I'm not going to put fumbles on spell rolls).
• Richard the 17th level wizard is trying to cast Meteor Swarm. Meteor Swarm is 9th level, and he's casting from a book, so the DC is 21. If he's just competently built, he has a base 16 in Int, and put every stat point from leveling into Int for a total of 20, 20 ranks of Kn. Arcana, a +6 headband, and an item that gives him +10 to a skill (which is of course Kn. Arcana), and he uses his wand, or a staff (for the same bonus), and he probably picked up Skill Focus and Magical Aptitude at some point, for a total mod of +46. He cannot fail.
  • If he's optimized, his Int can be assumed to be 30 after items, for a total mod of +50.

That's not really how I want things to go.

Let's say that I go with the suggestion of 15+(5*Spell Level)

• Identify's DC is 20, -3 for casting from the book, for 17. Competent Morty needs a 7 or higher, and Optimized Morty needs a 5 or better.
• Meteor Swarm's DC is 60, -3 for casting from book, for 57. Competent Richard needs a 11 or better, and Optimized Richard needs a 7 or better.

Looking at these numbers, I think it would be ok, but isn't ideal. The first thing that comes to mind is removing either the bonus to casting when using a wand, or the reduction to DC for casting from a book. Or make them both a penalty or both a bonus, and then make them the same kind, so you can't stack Cast With Wand and Cast With Book for a total move of 6 points. This would mean that in the original dynamic (15+level), Competent Morty needs a 6 or better, Optimized Morty has a small chance of failure, and Richard still cannot fail, whether competent or optimized. If I use the suggested dynamic (15+[level*5]), Competent Morty needs a 10 or better (which is good), and Optimized Morty needs an 8 or better (this is acceptable). Competent Richard has mild difficulty casting Meteor Swarm, needing a 14 or better, while Optimized Richard needs a 10 or better.

This of course also begs the question of whether I want to encourage taking pure bonus feats. Which I don't, but I'm still looking at base system, here, not "what feats need to fuck off?"

I think a happy medium would be 15+(3*spell level). This makes Morty's DC 18 and Richard's DC 42. If I get rid of pure bonus feats, this means that CM succeeds on 8 or better, OM succeeds on a 5 or better. But Richard cannot fail. Damnit. Well, wand casting should be a competence bonus, so it won't stack with a +10 Kn. Arcana item, meaning that CR needs a 4. OR can't fail. I'm sort of ok with high level wizards being really good at casting spells they've just started studying.

[Leress]

http://www.birthright.net/forums/showwi ... _d20_Magic

[AndreiChekov]

While most of what you typed was stuff that i don't really care about, one thing caught my attention. You have players that actually do shippy things with PnP characters?

[Prak]

No, that's just my preference for magic school fic, it's a non sequitor. However, given that part of the school experience is trying to get laid, it's sort of still a thing to figure in.

[Mask_De_H]

I have a question, Prak: are you designing the spell learning DCs around players squeezing every last skill-based competence bonus or not? Because there's a reason skill-based casting systems tend to go to seed, and that's due to the sheer divergence in possible ranks at any given level. So you would need to enforce proper scaling of skill ranks at the very least, which essentially writes them out of the picture outside of flavor concerns.

If you're forcing people to use spells to learn them, why not get rid of the skill casting bit and make the usage mechanic a Will save of [insert DC here] or else the spell flubs, causing [status effect] to the caster? Or enact a flat ASF sort of thing?

[Prak]

I'm building DCs basically out of thin air, with numbers that sort of make sense to try to find some that work. I'm evaluating them based on the common sources of skill bonus.

Will, Ability or simple Caster check might also make sense. More sense, even. It's just "I know how to do this thing" usually implies a skill basis. Or it seems like it should be a skill thing to me.

[Prak]

Ok, so what if instead of leaning on D20's skill system for this casting rolls, players got a separate pool of points to spend on a separate group of traits.

So something like Education Points. All characters gain the same number per level at base, say 6, then add their Int Mod. I don't think I want to multiply them at first level. These points can then be spent on class-appropriate Disciplines, which are rolled to cast spells.

So, Wizards would have the Disciplines Abjuration, Conjuration, Divination, Enchantment, Evocation, Illusion, Necromancy and Transmutation. When they try to cast a spell, they roll the discipline that matches the spell's school. Maybe specialization means that you can't point Education points into the banned school, but EP is more cost effective for your school of specialty.

I'm still on the fence about whether to include various other classes. Especially divine classes. Magic School seems to be a very WIZARD thing, at least in D&D.

Various magic item categories might be Disciplines, also.

But this would eliminate things like Skill Focus and "+2 to two skills" feats and "I have a prince albert that gives me +TEXAS to my most important skill!" At least until I wanted to drop a Tome of Better Potion Instructions (+X to Potions) into the players' laps as a plot point. Meaning that DC construction can be more straight forward.

[deaddmwalking]

The boards ate my first post...

I'm not sure if dividing spells using the 3.x schools is the best way. Some Harry Potter classes seem to follow that divide decently (Divinations, Tranfiguration, and maybe Defense Against the Dark Arts as Abjuration), but some definitely don't (Potions, Care of Magical Creatures).

Since students will take several courses, you won't want them to be able to spend all their points on a single school - you'll want diversification.

Some of the 'sub-schools' would make interesting groups. 'Curses' might be a fun type of spell that everyone learns.

Some of what struck me about Harry Potter is how many things don't really seem like spells per se, but they do feel like magic. You might want to consider giving free 'Reserve' feats and/or Hexblade hexes and/or Warlock invocations - at will powers that feel magical but don't require any real effort.

[Prak]

I don't think I'd do classes by school. I don't know if that makes the Wizard Disciplines being based on spell schools thing better or worse.

Since I'm not sure what I'm doing about spell rolls yet, and I wasn't feeling well enough to work on actual work, I decided to work on some fluff for this, since I can work on that and drop it according to how bad my intestines are cramping. So I'm thinking about houses/dorms/whatevers, and basing them on caster archetypes rather than schools or non-mutually exclusive arbitrary personality traits.

So the archetypes are basically-

• Buffs and Support magic
• Enchanting
• Summoning
• Battlefield Control
• Drinking and Knowing Things
• Blasting

Which get renamed to non-meta terms like Enhancing, Coercing, Beckoning, Shaping (handily a term that brings in illusion and polymorphing), Scrying, and ..er, Blasting. Some of that is school-based, like Blasting is pretty much Evocation, but also some Conjuration. Scrying is pretty much Divination. So on. To make houses matter, characters get some modest bonus to casting spells that correlate. Yes, I'd need to, at least, go through the PHB and split everything among those, but I want to do some augmentation-style stuff, so I have to do that anyway.


It occurs to me, however, that doing disciplines by something like the House list means another minutia for my players to pay attention to. A non-zero number of which will be a bit new to the game still, so that's not great. All disciplines need to either be currently existing divisions, like schools, or very, very obvious, like most descriptors. Right?

[Schleiermacher]

I wouldn't give spellcasting bonuses by house, it's both a lot of up-front work for little reward and it encourages people to decide their house based on mechanical concerns rather than conceptual ones. Instead I'd make them into Races of War-style Backgrounds.

[Prak]

I've tried to get people to choose things on conceptual basis, with a hint at mechanical bonuses. They don't fucking do it.
silly me, I thought it'd be cool for characters to have astrological signs and birth stones and get minor bonuses from them...

But, ok. I was looking at tying each archetype to one of the suits of the Pathfinder Harrow deck and saying that a character's house is chosen with a Harrow reading in game. For the PCs, they just get to pick, and then maybe I do a stacked Harrow reading to give them a specific card of their suit or something. So there's the House of Hammers, the House of Keys, the House of Shields, the House of Tomes, the House of Stars and the House of Crowns. There's a soft correlation between house and archetype, so Hammer House (or whatever) has a lot of Blasters, Keys House has a lot of Shapers, Shield House has a lot of Enhancers, Tome House Scryers, Star House Beckoners, and Crown House Beckoners, but your house doesn't dictate your archetype.

One thing I need to figure out is allowed classes. Wizards are the stereotypical collegiate spellcasters. Sorcerers get weird in a spell point using game-

When using spellpoints, prepared casters basically prepare their known spells each day- they don't have to prepare a spell multiple times to be able to cast it multiple times, so long as they have a spell prepared, they can cast it as often they like so long as they have the SP for it. Sorcerers have the benefit of knowing more spells, but wizards can change up their known spells each day.

In my game specifically, I want to incentivise everyone to have a spellbook for thematic reasons. In effect, spellbooks become an external spells known list. To make up for the versatility, there should probably be some kind of look up time

It seems weird to me to have clerics and druids at the college, but not necessarily wrong. But, ok, lets do this-

Spellcasting classes

• Bard
• Cleric
• Druid
• Paladin
• Ranger
• Sorcerer
• Wizard
• Beguiler
• Duskblade
• Warmage
• Wu Jen
• Favored Soul
• Shugenja
• Spirit Shaman
• Hexblade
• Spell Thief
• Dread Necromancer
• Artificer

Things with variant magic systems, like from Tome of Magic, Incarnum classes, etc, seem very not right for the school, at least not as typical options. I could see "workshop" type seminars that let characters pick up the feats that let you use one of these systems. Bard is the second stereotypical collegiate class, so they're fine, I think. Honestly, aside from figuring out what it means to be, say, a Ranger at a magic college, I'm inclined to say there's no particular reason to say that any of the above classes is off-limits. What do others think?

[Roog]

You forgot Archivist?

[Harshax]

I don't think I'd do classes by school. I don't know if that makes the Wizard Disciplines being based on spell schools thing better or worse.

What if a series of classes followed a model similar to sorcerous bloodlines?. Each focus of study offers 9 - 18 spells that are thematically related and and taught in chunks of 100, 200, 300 and 400 level courses. Each tier after the first provides an additional power that can only be gained by taking the next level of the specific course of study.

For instance: magical botany, magical biology, or necromancy might all teach cure light wounds. But once you take the 200-Level course, each offers a different thematic tweak, feat or alternate method to using spell slots:
Botany 200: Expend a spell to turn/command plants
Biology 200: Expend a spell to turn/command beasts
Necromancy 200: Expend a spell to turn/command undead
Alchemy 200: Make level 1 potions.

What you end up with is characters with variations in spell lists that far exceeds what can be accomplished using the classic 9 schools. Additionally, it allows you to introduce foreign exchange programs that don't use the typical D&D dichotomy. Eastern Water Magic might include spells that interact with spirits and heal physical ailments via potions.

It also allows you to create schools like battle magic which either lets a Fighter or Rogue dip his scabbard into eldritch methods that enhance his mundane problem solving skills. This can range from building the archetypical F/M-U to dispensing completely with the Paladin and Ranger by simplifying spell lists and making it easier to dabble between different styles of problem solving.

EDIT:
It also lets you do some Discworld level shit, by squirreling forgotten curriculums and professors into long forgotten places inside your school. If you explore and do the right thing for the right person, find the some ancient syllabus, you might find the guy willing to tutor you in some course that offers spells or abilities not found in the more mainstream studies.

[Harshax]

Continuing on the the idea from the last EDIT: Every new colleges, coursework or paths you come up with will naturally lend itself to creating more NPCs, more conflicts, more clubs and internal politics.

You can imagine a natural friction that would occur between two cliques of students. Both studied magical beasts and have spells related to their enhancement or abjuration, but one professor in the same college offers 300 level courses that teach students to splice creations together for making owlbears while another delves into summons beasts from alternate dimensions.

Both groups might see each other as competitors to determine the sanctioned direction of this college. Its a a conflict that might even continue after Magic University is over and the players head out into the world. This is also an easy hook for visitors to the University who want to research past students to find out what they're up against.

I've been thinking about this subject alot recently ... got my kid to play a couple games the other day and she gravitated natural towards skullduggery and magic. I'd love to up my game and cater to the stories she seems to enjoy best.

[Harshax]

If the assumption is that everyone is magic, then character backgrounds become more important than race. If setting states that a dwarf can't be a wizard, then there's no reason to waste page space explaining that. Instead, it makes more sense to focus on why or how a character qualified to enter the school in the first place:

1. Untapped Potential: You were living a mundane dirt farmer's life. Then a former graduate or talent scout recognized you magic potential and sponsored your entry into the school. You get a bonus feat of your choice. This is the generic equivalent of being a 'human' in generic fantasy settings.

2. Arcane Protege: You're the offspring of a wizard - former graduate or otherwise. You have skill focus in a skill or three to represent home schooling.

3. Magical Lineage: You're not the offspring of a wizard. You're the offspring of a creature of pure magic. Maybe you have a sorcerer's lineage. You have a larger reservoir of mojo for fueling magic - whether that's extra slots, more power points, etc.

4. Hedge Dabbler: You were an apprentice to a shaman, witch, or some old coot that lived at the edge of town who provided potions and consul to superstitious folk. You start out with bonuses toward social engineering (intimidate, diplomacy, or bluff). You might know a couple remedies or have some skill in herbalism.

5. Huckster's Pupil: A riff on Hedge Dabbler. More focused on sleight, skulduggery or illusion.

6. Transfer Student: Maybe you're from a warrior caste that mixes martial and magic techniques. Your weapon master has taught you preliminary mundane combat skills and now it's time to pick up rudimentary magic training. Extra hit points? Martial weapon training? Armor training?

[Prak]

While I agree that backgrounds are important, I'm not going to discount races. It would alienate players if I say that there's no particular mechanical difference between an elf and dwarf. This is about a campaign style for D&D, not a new game..

[Harshax]

While I agree that backgrounds are important, I'm not going to discount races. It would alienate players if I say that there's no particular mechanical difference between an elf and dwarf. This is about a campaign style for D&D, not a new game..

I was only suggesting that if everyone in the setting is magic, you need to add another toggle for players to select during character creation in order to maintain the different-hat/special snowflake distinction between characters who are all the same class and to a lesser extent one of only a few choice races suitable for spellcasting.

[Prak]

Ah, gotcha. Well, what I'm probably going to do is try to make all spellcasting classes represented at the school, and fiddle with the races so that there isn't one optimal spellcasting race.

[hyzmarca]

I've tried to get people to choose things on conceptual basis, with a hint at mechanical bonuses. They don't fucking do it.
silly me, I thought it'd be cool for characters to have astrological signs and birth stones and get minor bonuses from them...

Listen, Harry Potter did it right. You've got four houses each representing a conceptual ideal.

Smart Academics
Brave Heroes
Scheming Racists
and Hufflepuff.


That's pretty much what you need. No one gives a shit about zodiac signs and birthstones for a variety of reasons, not the least of which being that they're too vague and too many of them. But Hogwarts Houses are clear, distinct, unique, and there are only four of them.

You could probably get away with 6 Houses instead, 6 is a good number. But 10 is altogether too many and 12 is right out. Like, zodiac signs + birthstones gives you 12+12 choices and 12*12 = 144 combos. No one is going to bother paying attention to that. 4+4 iconic selections is more reasonable, if you're going to have two sets.

4 is the best, though, because it gives you a variety while simultaneously being easy to remember all of them. And they aren't so many that you have to finely divide them or and spread their concepts thin. 5 gets you a little more space to work with, and an extra choice for the player, and is the standard Sentai team size.

[Prak]

I'm not proposing astrology shit for houses. That was a thing I tried to introduce in a past campaign as a source for minor bonuses and some fluff.

Houses I'm leaning towards basing on the six-ish magic user archetypes in D&D

[hyzmarca]

I'm not proposing astrology shit for houses. That was a thing I tried to introduce in a past campaign as a source for minor bonuses and some fluff.

Houses I'm leaning towards basing on the six-ish magic user archetypes in D&D

Magic user archetypes really don't lend themselves well to plot generation. I suppose that Illusionists could panty raid the Druids or something, but that sort of division does not lend itself to conflict. Even if you have House Points of something, you'd need to have multiple schools in the same party and there is little incentive for house rivalries.

At least with personality-based houses you get built in conflict of Slytherins think that Gryffindors are foolhardy morons and Gryffindors think that Slytherins are lying douchebags.

Political houses work to generate conflict and drive plots. Houses based on what subjects you take don't generate conflict or drive plots.