Spells that Dispel Buffs [Tome of Arcane]
Posted: Tue Sep 13, 2016 8:18 am
Dispelling Magic in D&D is.... really dumb in about 8 different ways.
Obviously the first problem is that if someone actually has lots of buffs on, rolling dispel magics is just a huge chore. Then on top of that you have all the problems with Caster levels in D&D, from off the RNG one way to the other. And then at the end of all this you are talking about a level 3 spell that doesn't scale past level 10 and a level 6 spell that is exactly like the level 3 spell was for your early levels trying to compete with actual combat actions. Then finally, you have the buff problem, whether that in comes in the form of Teleport Ambushes or DMM Persist, or Incantatrix, or Spelldancer, where you cast buff spells that have a duration of all fucking day or many many days that greatly increase your power, so if you can pull on Caster Level or Dispel Caster Level Check shenanignas with Elven Spell Lore Master Specialist Abjurers with the Inquisition Domain and Arcane Mastery and those random as Dispel Beads casting Greater Dispel Magic and getting a result of 48 against all your spells of DC of 11+CL at level 11 and guaranteeing you have no buffs at all left.
Basically, it's all kind of crap.
So here are the goals for Dispeling Magical stuff:
1) Out of combat: Stuff can be ended with Dispel magic or Greater Dispel magic sure, and whatever, but also people can get all kinds of crazy debuffs that for one reason or another are immune to those spells and are cured by completely different spells like instantaneous duration paralyze spells or Break Enchantment only can fix this spells or whatever.
In Combat:
2) Just dropping all of someone's buffs is going to a thing that we don't want, because it distorts the playspace too much for everyone to be prepared to lose everything in one go. Even worse if it clears all the area effects on the battlefield.
3) Ideally we would avoid having enemies cast lots of useless buffs on themselves just to troll people casting Dispel things.
4) We definitely aren't going to be rolling 500 caster level checks.
5) While it does have some item effects, that's mostly just to not deprive people of actions, more than because we actually think this is a comprehensive item + dispel interactions. Item rules still need work, look there for some of this stuff.
All that said, here's some rules:
Identifying Active Buffs with the Spellcraft Skill/Spell
Right now the closest thing to identifying active buffs is the Spellcraft skill DC 20+spell level "Identify a spell that’s already in place and in effect. You must be able to see or detect the effects of the spell. No action required. No retry." You can either keep this, and say that all buff spells have a visible effect (but you can't see any of them unless you can see the creature, so you can't identify invisible people by their buffs, but you can identify invisible people's buffs if you can see them).
You could also increase this to 25+spell level to detect buffs, because they are harder to figure out than free standing spells if you want identifying them to be a higher level effect.
Alternatively you can tell people to fuck off and cast Analyze Dweomer, I don't recommend this really, but I'm not fully thrilled with the spellcraft thing.
You may want to reduce the roll to a single roll and compare it to all spells. You certainly lose granularity, but if someone has 50 buffs do you really want to roll 50 times?
This doesn't apply to items? Maybe that should be a Knowledge Arcana Check? Honestly I don't find a skill check to be the best way of dealing with this, but what you gonna do? Maybe this should be limited to Analyze Dweomer?
Spells
Dispel Magic
Abjuration
Level: Brd 3, Clr 3, Drd 4, Magic 3, Pal 3, Sor/Wiz 3
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 standard action or 1 immediate action, See text.
Range: Medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./level)
Target or Area: One spellcaster, creature, or object; or 20-ft.-radius burst
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: No
You can Dispel magic effects by targeting a specific magical spell, magical item, or magical creature. Alternatively you can dispel effects in a 20ft Radius Burst. Finally, as an Immediate action, you can counter a spell as it is being cast.
Targeted Dispel: Item
You Automatically suppress the magical effects of an item for 1d4 rounds.
Targeted Dispel: Spell
You can target a single spell effect that you have identified or that is readily targeted like a Fog Cloud around you. This can even be targeted on a specific enemies specific buff or an allies specific debuff, if you want. You roll a Caster Level check of 1d20+your Caster Level, with a cap of 10 on the Caster level bonus against a DC of the Caster Level of the spell. If you succeed, the spell ceases to occur. You can only target an Area of Effect spell if the point of origin is within Medium Range and you have Line of Effect to that Point of Origin.
Targeted Dispel: Creature
You can target a single creature, if you do so you roll a single Caster Level Check as above against a DC of the Caster level of the lowest Caster Level off the spells currently effecting the targeted creature. If you succeed you end one random spell as if the duration expired. For each 5 points you exceed the DC, you end an additional spell.
At your option you may name a specific spell, if that spell is on the creature, it will be the third spell ended. If that spell is not on the creature, it ends a random spell instead.
Area Dispel
An Area Dispel treats all spells in the area as if they are all spells on a single creature. Area spells are only included if the point of origin is within the area. You make a Caster Level check as for a Targeted Dispel on a creature.
At your option may name a specific spell, if that spell is on any creature it will be the fourth spell ended and will be ended on every single creature within the area (or multiple area spells) counting as only a single ended effect.
Counterspell
For a Counterspell make an opposed Caster Level check on which you take a -5 penalty, note that this Caster level check does not have a +10 cap though like the above. If you succeed, the spell is countered and never takes place.
Greater Dispel Magic
Abjuration
Level: Clr 6, Drd 6, Sor/Wiz 6, Whatever it usually is for other weird classes?
This spell is exactly as Dispel Magic except that:
1) All the caster level checks have no Caster level caps. They extend with your Caster Level. (If someone has Greater Consumptive Field Persisted, that's your fucking problem.)
2) A Targeted Dispel: Item suppresses the effect for 12 hours.
3) The named spell in either the Area Dispel or the Targeted Dispel is the first effect ended.
4) Counterspell caster level checks have no -5 penalty.
Dispel Shield
Abjuration
Level: Clr 2, Drd 2, Sor/Wiz 2
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Personal?
Target: Personal
Duration: 12 Hours
If you cast this spell, it is always the first spell ended if you are subject to an Area Dispel or Targeted Dispel. If the Area of Targeted Dispel comes from Greater Dispel, then the named spell is moved to the second effect ended.
So yeah, how about that?
Obviously the first problem is that if someone actually has lots of buffs on, rolling dispel magics is just a huge chore. Then on top of that you have all the problems with Caster levels in D&D, from off the RNG one way to the other. And then at the end of all this you are talking about a level 3 spell that doesn't scale past level 10 and a level 6 spell that is exactly like the level 3 spell was for your early levels trying to compete with actual combat actions. Then finally, you have the buff problem, whether that in comes in the form of Teleport Ambushes or DMM Persist, or Incantatrix, or Spelldancer, where you cast buff spells that have a duration of all fucking day or many many days that greatly increase your power, so if you can pull on Caster Level or Dispel Caster Level Check shenanignas with Elven Spell Lore Master Specialist Abjurers with the Inquisition Domain and Arcane Mastery and those random as Dispel Beads casting Greater Dispel Magic and getting a result of 48 against all your spells of DC of 11+CL at level 11 and guaranteeing you have no buffs at all left.
Basically, it's all kind of crap.
So here are the goals for Dispeling Magical stuff:
1) Out of combat: Stuff can be ended with Dispel magic or Greater Dispel magic sure, and whatever, but also people can get all kinds of crazy debuffs that for one reason or another are immune to those spells and are cured by completely different spells like instantaneous duration paralyze spells or Break Enchantment only can fix this spells or whatever.
In Combat:
2) Just dropping all of someone's buffs is going to a thing that we don't want, because it distorts the playspace too much for everyone to be prepared to lose everything in one go. Even worse if it clears all the area effects on the battlefield.
3) Ideally we would avoid having enemies cast lots of useless buffs on themselves just to troll people casting Dispel things.
4) We definitely aren't going to be rolling 500 caster level checks.
5) While it does have some item effects, that's mostly just to not deprive people of actions, more than because we actually think this is a comprehensive item + dispel interactions. Item rules still need work, look there for some of this stuff.
All that said, here's some rules:
Identifying Active Buffs with the Spellcraft Skill/Spell
Right now the closest thing to identifying active buffs is the Spellcraft skill DC 20+spell level "Identify a spell that’s already in place and in effect. You must be able to see or detect the effects of the spell. No action required. No retry." You can either keep this, and say that all buff spells have a visible effect (but you can't see any of them unless you can see the creature, so you can't identify invisible people by their buffs, but you can identify invisible people's buffs if you can see them).
You could also increase this to 25+spell level to detect buffs, because they are harder to figure out than free standing spells if you want identifying them to be a higher level effect.
Alternatively you can tell people to fuck off and cast Analyze Dweomer, I don't recommend this really, but I'm not fully thrilled with the spellcraft thing.
You may want to reduce the roll to a single roll and compare it to all spells. You certainly lose granularity, but if someone has 50 buffs do you really want to roll 50 times?
This doesn't apply to items? Maybe that should be a Knowledge Arcana Check? Honestly I don't find a skill check to be the best way of dealing with this, but what you gonna do? Maybe this should be limited to Analyze Dweomer?
Spells
Dispel Magic
Abjuration
Level: Brd 3, Clr 3, Drd 4, Magic 3, Pal 3, Sor/Wiz 3
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 standard action or 1 immediate action, See text.
Range: Medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./level)
Target or Area: One spellcaster, creature, or object; or 20-ft.-radius burst
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: No
You can Dispel magic effects by targeting a specific magical spell, magical item, or magical creature. Alternatively you can dispel effects in a 20ft Radius Burst. Finally, as an Immediate action, you can counter a spell as it is being cast.
Targeted Dispel: Item
You Automatically suppress the magical effects of an item for 1d4 rounds.
Targeted Dispel: Spell
You can target a single spell effect that you have identified or that is readily targeted like a Fog Cloud around you. This can even be targeted on a specific enemies specific buff or an allies specific debuff, if you want. You roll a Caster Level check of 1d20+your Caster Level, with a cap of 10 on the Caster level bonus against a DC of the Caster Level of the spell. If you succeed, the spell ceases to occur. You can only target an Area of Effect spell if the point of origin is within Medium Range and you have Line of Effect to that Point of Origin.
Targeted Dispel: Creature
You can target a single creature, if you do so you roll a single Caster Level Check as above against a DC of the Caster level of the lowest Caster Level off the spells currently effecting the targeted creature. If you succeed you end one random spell as if the duration expired. For each 5 points you exceed the DC, you end an additional spell.
At your option you may name a specific spell, if that spell is on the creature, it will be the third spell ended. If that spell is not on the creature, it ends a random spell instead.
Area Dispel
An Area Dispel treats all spells in the area as if they are all spells on a single creature. Area spells are only included if the point of origin is within the area. You make a Caster Level check as for a Targeted Dispel on a creature.
At your option may name a specific spell, if that spell is on any creature it will be the fourth spell ended and will be ended on every single creature within the area (or multiple area spells) counting as only a single ended effect.
Counterspell
For a Counterspell make an opposed Caster Level check on which you take a -5 penalty, note that this Caster level check does not have a +10 cap though like the above. If you succeed, the spell is countered and never takes place.
Greater Dispel Magic
Abjuration
Level: Clr 6, Drd 6, Sor/Wiz 6, Whatever it usually is for other weird classes?
This spell is exactly as Dispel Magic except that:
1) All the caster level checks have no Caster level caps. They extend with your Caster Level. (If someone has Greater Consumptive Field Persisted, that's your fucking problem.)
2) A Targeted Dispel: Item suppresses the effect for 12 hours.
3) The named spell in either the Area Dispel or the Targeted Dispel is the first effect ended.
4) Counterspell caster level checks have no -5 penalty.
Dispel Shield
Abjuration
Level: Clr 2, Drd 2, Sor/Wiz 2
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Personal?
Target: Personal
Duration: 12 Hours
If you cast this spell, it is always the first spell ended if you are subject to an Area Dispel or Targeted Dispel. If the Area of Targeted Dispel comes from Greater Dispel, then the named spell is moved to the second effect ended.
So yeah, how about that?